Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[jasonT1981]

you know, this stat talk is really getting away from the actual objective of finding and lynching scum. I would suspect scum would be happy to drag discussion away from scum hunting in anyway possible maybe even perhaps lead the discussion away.....

[Oso]

---

I do not like #57 at all. UNVOTE: I Am Innocent; VOTE: Oso

Elmo, my scumdar was pinged on that exact same post.

unvote
unvote Oso

Normally I wouldn't comment on two votes this early in a game but what the hell, I have the time.

"Don't like the post and pinged the scumdar."

Was it because it:

A - I chose to vote someone who verifiably said something that wasn't true.
B - I chose to try and take any emerging pressure off of Sotty by voting someone who had just said something.
C - I took my pressure off the leading wagon at that point.
D - I cast direct suspicion on Percy (while leaving myself an out even) but also, by proxy, subtly casting suspicion back on I Am Innocent by following that chain of votes/players backwards thus not taking really taking my pressure off of I Am Innocent at all.
E - All/Some/None of the above.

If you chose A and D you would be correct. No way in hell I just caught three scum but I Am Innocent does see that I haven't taken any pressure off of his wagon at all by moving my random vote of him to RC, only the immediate pressure. May explain his jumping over to me with a vote.

@Sotty, I may join you back on that wagon as RC's mistake may have simply been a reading phail. He(IaI) already seems to be flailing in his defense quite a bit and flood posting, and it's barely 4 pages into the game and slightly over 1 day since the game started. Have to take that 7 year old out for an ice cream.

[Sotty7]

I asked that question to primarily gauge his reaction

And? What juiciness did you discover?

Sotty, you're smart,

Don't believe the hype.

why would I try to dirty benmage and then say he is townie? Your logic doesn't add up girl. Try again.

My logic works pretty well actually, go back and re-read the exchange between you, me and benamge and then get back to me on this.

= = = = = =

you know, this stat talk is really getting away from the actual objective of finding and lynching scum. I would suspect scum would be happy to drag discussion away from scum hunting in anyway possible maybe even perhaps lead the discussion away.....

Feel free to follow your own advice. Who are the scums?

Also I wouldn't say set up talk has flooded out the good stuff. In fact I have pretty much ignored the numbers. You should too.

= = = = = =

@Sotty, I may join you back on that wagon as RC's mistake may have simply been a reading phail. He(IaI) already seems to be flailing in his defense quite a bit and flood posting, and it's barely 4 pages into the game and slightly over 1 day since the game started. Have to take that 7 year old out for an ice cream.

The Red thing is probably null... But is

is

Red so I dunno. I'm kinda waiting to see what he does next before deciding.

Yeah, IAI does seem a tad frazzled. I think I like it.

[jasonT1981]

right now I believe I am Innocent could be scum... I'm happy with my vote on him.

he is pushing figures which distract from scum hunting

refusing to vote something he finds scummy because it is only 2nd page

pushing a false load on you to try and discredit you (Sotty)

his post 72 doesnt add up.. he calls you smart but in the same post says your logic doesnt add up.

He has posted at least 4 times out of ten posts and most seem almost gloating that the odds favor scum... almost like a scum hidden gloat post after hitting a cop or doc in the night

Sotty, can you expalin your last bit of your post please for those of us not in the know of Red?

The Red thing is probably null... But is

is

Red so I dunno. I'm kinda waiting to see what he does next before deciding.

you Italic seems to suggest you are familar with his playstyle.. I have never played with him so am curious to know what you mean.

[Elmo]

By a long distance, the most likely reason that Red believed IAI didn't say Benmage's plan was scummy is because he simply missed the post where IAI said that. There is almost zero probability that Red would successfully get IAI lynched on that basis, because IAI could simply point to the post in question; so it's completely unrealistic for Red to act like that as scum, and this is a very thin basis for suspicion. It's clearly 99% null.

Since I'm not going to assume that RedCoyote is either drunk, high or has some sort of medical disorder that causes him to read posts out of order, then that must have been a deliberate attempt to cast an unfounded suspicion using a blatant falsehood.

Which means that Percy also get the hairy eyeball as well. Although, since he(Percy) never clarified why he made that post, I'm going to go (for the moment) with the thought that RedCoyote might have interpreted it so it fit his own nefarious agenda.

This is an

incredibly

grandiose way of making an accusation. People miss or forget posts all the time; there is absolutely no reason for you to to push this with such vigour. You are trying to sound impressive to get people to agree with you, yet there's no attempt to question whether you're actually right, or to gain more information, considering the extremely weak evidence thus far. You pre-emptively talk about things like a "medical disorder" as if it's totally unrealistic that someone missed a single sentence in a game, anticipating Red's pretty obvious defence of "hay I missed it".

So you are trying to get people to suspect Red, trying to make his defence look bad before he's given it, yet have almost zero reason to genuinely suspect him and aren't trying to clarify what happened or figure out his alignment. I'd say that looks pretty bad from where I'm sitting.

[jasonT1981]

He has posted at least 4 times out of ten posts and most seem almost gloating that the odds favor scum... almost like a scum hidden gloat post after hitting a cop or doc in the night

Correction

He has posted about Stats at least 4 times out of ten posts and most seem almost gloating that the odds favor scum... almost like a scum hidden gloat post after hitting a cop or doc in the night

[Elmo]

he is pushing figures which distract from scum hunting

No; at the time he posted the statistics, it was in response to someone he thought was proposing not using every lynch. It is important that we use all our lynches - IAI was mistaken, but the intent in posting that is clearly pro-town. Since he's learned that, he's stopped doing it.

refusing to vote something he finds scummy because it is only 2nd page

By his definition of scummy, this is perfectly understandable. I agree with him that it's more like Benmage was a townie acting anti-town (albeit for a far shorter period than he thought) rather than mafia; don't you think it's a bad idea for him to attack someone he's said will likely turn out to be town? He said Benmage's plan was scummy (anti-town), not that he suspected Benmage or found him scummy.

He has posted at least 4 times out of ten posts and most seem almost gloating that the odds favor scum... almost like a scum hidden gloat post after hitting a cop or doc in the night

Quote something resembling gloating? I don't see this at all.

[Elmo]

Very anti-town behavior here. If you have nothing to hide, you would supply this information willingly.

I don't think there's any particularly good reason he should have to do research for you if he doesn't have the information handy; I and many other people don't keep track of this kind of thing.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, can you expalin your last bit of your post please for those of us not in the know of Red?

The Red thing is probably null... But is

is

Red so I dunno. I'm kinda waiting to see what he does next before deciding.

you Italic seems to suggest you are familar with his playstyle.. I have never played with him so am curious to know what you mean.

I mean that Red is a very capable player so him making a mistake that was so obvious was out of character. The more I think about it, the more it is probably null. Nobody is perfect after all. But I'm not discounting the possibility of scum Red screwing with my mind.

Ah so yeah, I agree with Elmo (post 78).

[Elmo]

But I'm not discounting the possibility of scum Red screwing with my mind.

I, on the other hand, eat WIFOM for breakfast.

[Benmage]

V/La Till Monday evening EST.

[Benmage]

Ben has that newbie feel

Ben, I really do think you are townie. If you are, step back and look for a minute and stop being so dang stubborn:

AtE

1) Do you know that INCLUDING THE PREGAME CHAT, 7 of the 16 players have 2 posts or less. Do you think there is a chance that the three scum could be laying low, watching this all play out and smiling. One player has yet to POST AT ALL!

Deflection. And yes there are more than 1 scum in this game..thank you.

2) I have never put out the statistics like that before. I could have blended in and random voted like everybody else.

But I thought it was essential that town use all its lynches

. NOBODY BEFORE I POSTED THAT SAID THAT WE SHOULD USE ALL OUR LYNCHES THROUGHOUT THE GAME. I was clarifying, because nobody else had. I can guarantee you one thing, if I was scum, there ain't no way I am shooting out the statistics cause my hope and prayer would be less lynches and more nk's. Think about it.

Standard, "I'd never do this as scum, I can't be scum".....geeze and hes calling me newb ... basic 101 scum tells up the ass from this guy.

Do I write him off as a VI?

@ BenMage, what is your record on this site as town and mafia? Can you give me your best game as town?

Feel free to do the research yourself.

Very anti-town behavior here. If you have nothing to hide, you would supply this information willingly.

Use the search function...look at my posts..i dont have the time, nor desire to pull up every game of mine, and I don't have an arbitrary "oh I was the best here" game.. I was the best in every game I played, save my first newbie, and first large one.

Question for you, are you playing under an alias in Newbie 1017 by chance, cause there are

a ton of players

just like you in there...

lol...yeah i'm playing as all of them...why are you asking pointless questions?

[Benmage]

why are you asking pointless questions?

Oh right, you like to talk about pointless filler stuff...and pointless questions because you are scum. Right.

I haven't read pg 4 and on...will do so with more time... V/la now tho.

[I Am Innocent]

Ben has that newbie feel

Ben, I really do think you are townie. If you are, step back and look for a minute and stop being so dang stubborn:

AtE

1) Do you know that INCLUDING THE PREGAME CHAT, 7 of the 16 players have 2 posts or less. Do you think there is a chance that the three scum could be laying low, watching this all play out and smiling. One player has yet to POST AT ALL!

Deflection. And yes there are more than 1 scum in this game..thank you.

2) I have never put out the statistics like that before. I could have blended in and random voted like everybody else.

But I thought it was essential that town use all its lynches

. NOBODY BEFORE I POSTED THAT SAID THAT WE SHOULD USE ALL OUR LYNCHES THROUGHOUT THE GAME. I was clarifying, because nobody else had. I can guarantee you one thing, if I was scum, there ain't no way I am shooting out the statistics cause my hope and prayer would be less lynches and more nk's. Think about it.

Standard, "I'd never do this as scum, I can't be scum".....geeze and hes calling me newb ... basic 101 scum tells up the ass from this guy.

Do I write him off as a VI?

@ BenMage, what is your record on this site as town and mafia? Can you give me your best game as town?

Feel free to do the research yourself.

Very anti-town behavior here. If you have nothing to hide, you would supply this information willingly.

Use the search function...look at my posts..i dont have the time, nor desire to pull up every game of mine, and I don't have an arbitrary "oh I was the best here" game.. I was the best in every game I played, save my first newbie, and first large one.

Question for you, are you playing under an alias in Newbie 1017 by chance, cause there are

a ton of players

just like you in there...

lol...yeah i'm playing as all of them...why are you asking pointless questions?

Do you know what else is a scum tell...voting for yourself.

unvote
vote I am innocent

To the rest of the town, sorry. I have never been lynched as a townie, nor lost a game as a townie. Somehow keeping me around may cost me another win...so I am bailing to rid us of this confusion. Keep an eye for those on my wagon, at least one scum there.

Benmage, you are a friggin tunneling moron. Either that or you are scum, if that is the case, my apologies for calling you a moron, well played. But I believe you are the worst kind of tunneling town. Guess what,

WIFOM makes most scum tells irrelevent (village) idiot

!

Sotty nominated me for a scummy as best new player. Now she wants me off. Watch her, def scum possibility. Townie Sotty would know how much I could help the team out...

Elmo is clearly town. Elmo, I would enjoy playing a game with you any time. I meant what I said about that Oso post. Seriously consider lynching him 2nd this day peeps.

For now, adios.

[Mina]

Um, I have no idea who's scum yet, because I haven't got a chance to do more than skim through the thread, but since my brain broke from that most recent I am Innocent post...

...I am Innocent, did you think that was a hammer?

How's this. If you're afraid of "losing the game for us,"

replace out

.

Or even better, actually make a case on someone who's scum, and vote for that person in order to get

that other player

lynched. How the hell are you saving the town from a mislynch by ENSURING YOU GET LYNCHED MORE QUICKLY? You're just cutting discussion short, giving fewer people a chance to take stands, and letting scum keep their hands clean.

But probably replace out, because now people will all go, "Oh my God, he's APPEALING TO EMOTION," and hop on your wagon.

Oh my God. I hate irritating "self-sacrificing" Vanilla Townies who think they're being

soooo

selfless by handing the scum a free mislynch on a silver platter.

(/in before "You just called him town! How would you know that unless you're scum?")

Also, sorry for missing RVS. I'll have a post with actual content soon.

[Zachrulez]

Vote Count #2 of D1 P1

I Am Innocent - 4 (Sotty7, JasonT1981, Benmage, I Am Innocent)
Redcoyote - 2 (KaleiÐoscøpe, Oso)
Nikanor - 2 (Locke Lamora, RedCoyote)
Locke Lamora - 1 (Imkingdavid)
Jasont1981 - 1 (Nikanor)
KaleiÐoscøpe - 1 (Dry-fit)
Sotty7 - 1 (Percy)
Oso - 1 (Elmo)

Not Voting: (Mina, Furcolow, Mongoose)

If I made any mistakes, please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for (Both phases of) Day 1 is Thursday November 11 at 12pm CST

With 16 alive it's 9 to lynch.

[Zachrulez]

I'll try to have vote counts up once per day around this time of the evening.

[I Am Innocent]

...I am Innocent, did you think that was a hammer.

Nope.

How's this. If you're afraid of "losing the game for us,"

replace out

.

I've never replaced out and won't start now. Besides, I don't think I will lose the game for us if I get killed D1-1

Or even better, actually make a case on someone who's scum, and vote for that person in order to get

that other player

lynched. How the hell are you saving the town from a mislynch by ENSURING YOU GET LYNCHED MORE QUICKLY? You're just cutting discussion short, giving fewer people a chance to take stands, and letting scum keep their hands clean.

It's too late, at least one mafia has got their hands dirty, probably oso, maybe sotty, jason, etc. It'll be ironic if it's benmage. I die, you can spend the rest of the 3 weeks on the real scum. We waste time deciding is IAI guilty, is he not, then lynch me a week before the deadline, not as good. I want almost the full 3 weeks for the remaining 12 townies to find that first scum.

[for jason] Remember, we get 1 scum D1 and odds are surely in the town's favor to win this thing... [/for jason]

Oh my God. I hate irritating "self-sacrificing" Vanilla Townies who think they're being

soooo

selfless by handing the scum a free mislynch on a silver platter.

Actually I do to. It pained me to do this, but it came down to strategy. If I was scum, I would draw out the IAI debate for as much of the 3 weeks as possible, leaving little time to catch the real scum with the second day lynch. All strategy my brother. Now vote me out.

ALL OF YOU!

Scum surely ain't gonna touch this now...

[imkingdavid]

IaI... you're not helping anything by throwing up the AtE. Put your vote on whomever you find the most scummy or unvote until you find that person. Self-voting is never helpful (unless you are in fact scum, then by all means keep your vote on yourself).

To be honest, I don't feel like IAI is as anti-town as he has been made out to be. That being I am not yet sure who I find the most scummy, so I will go ahead and unvote and take some time to think about it.

UNVOTE: Locke

[mongoose]

1) Do you know that INCLUDING THE PREGAME CHAT, 7 of the 16 players have 2 posts or less. Do you think there is a chance that the three scum could be laying low, watching this all play out and smiling. One player has yet to POST AT ALL!

ways to not be included in that list: quintiple posting. Just had to point that out.

you know, this stat talk is really getting away from the actual objective of finding and lynching scum. I would suspect scum would be happy to drag discussion away from scum hunting in anyway possible maybe even perhaps lead the discussion away.....

I agree with this post. I think the people who lead discussion away from lynching tend to be scum, and the stats didn't help this. However, I am innocent does list his suspicions and they seem to be decent so for now I think he is town.

On the other hand, Benmage's posts dont help much at all. He suggests 1 lynch every day, then realizes he was wrong and changes. Nothing wrong with that, but nothing right either. He starts a case on Innocent which is rather pointless stating that posting facts is scummy, which isnt true because hes been posting content along with it. I also dont like the "Feel free to do the research yourself" post. I think he is the scmmiest player so far, though even then I think its not much of a case and isn't too strong. I have pretty bad feeling about him too.

vote benmage

[Elmo]

This is why I hate this situation; the degree of yelling at each other and just plain not listening means that pretty soon, people will get the idea that exactly one of Benmage or IAI must be scum into their heads. They're both pretty obviously mistaken, and right now I think they're both town.

this is why we can't have nice things kids

[jasonT1981]

This is why I hate this situation; the degree of yelling at each other and just plain not listening means that pretty soon,

people will get the idea that exactly one of Benmage or IAI must be scum into their heads. They're both pretty obviously mistaken

, and right now I think they're both town.

this is why we can't have nice things kids

you seem very sure they are town and only making mistakes... any reason? So what if people begin to think they are scum? if they tink their play is scummy its justified.

the bolded makes me VERY warey... its almost like you know something.

[Sotty7]

Unvote

IAM, when I said I wanted you frazzled I didn't mean melting down completely. Unvote yourself, your overreaction to the wagon on you is a little silly. Scum IAM would probably play it cool and brush it off so I'm going to make a leap of faith by taking my vote off for now. What you need to do when you come back into the thread is re-read the opening exchange between me, you and benmage. If you still can't see why my vote was on you I will talk you though it. If you are town you can be benefit so get in here and start doing that. At this point I really doubt any of the people you listed are scum. In other words, take a deep breath and start again, it looks like this is the first time you have been run up in this manner. Learn from it.

Lets try something different.

Vote: Nikanor

[jasonT1981]

you know Sotty, maybe we should try something different

unvote
vote:Elmo

Hes been very quick to defend people who look scummy, seems to know something we don't add to that his post in #81.. it looks like he is seriously buddying IAI

[Elmo]

you seem very sure they are town and only making mistakes... any reason?

I'm not sure they're town; I think Benmage is town, and I lean towards thinking IAI is also town. I strongly believe that they would act roughly this way if they were town, i.e. that their play is not scummy.

So what if people begin to think they are scum? if they tink their play is scummy its justified.

You can't just say "oh, I find your play scummy" and say that's sufficient. You need to give a reason

why

their play is scummy, and thus far the reasons stated are pretty terrible.

the bolded makes me VERY warey... its almost like you know something.

I'm not sure why. The first part should be obvious - if two people argue violently with each other, people tend to believe one of them

must

be right, and therefore exactly one of them is scum. The reason I dislike this false dichotomy is pretty simple: most people in the game are town, and townies tend to be more aggressive than scum. Unless there's an actual, good reason to suspect one of them, this is likely a fight between two townies which will end badly.

I think it's extremely obvious that IAI was mistaken about if/when Benmage retracted his plan. It's possible for him to be mafia and mistaken, but being mistaken is still null. I also think it's fairly obvious that Benmage isn't really taking IAI's defence on board, which fits with my impression of Ben from the last time we played together.

Quote something resembling gloating? I don't see this at all.

Also, this, still.

I also approve of Nikanor votes.