Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[jasonT1981]

Zach, can you fix my top quote please? some of my text got jumbled into the quote by accident

[Elmo]

ok, i see above he is lying.... Im happy with my vote.

To me, this still looks a lot like you've just learned he's lying.
If you were town, you'd already know full well he's lying and have no particular reason to reference that.
If you were scum, this would be the earliest you could know he was lying, and it makes sense to think something exactly like that - okay, now I see he's lying. Phew!

Do you see what I'm saying?

[Zachrulez]

Vote Count #5 of D1 P1

Nikanor - 3 (Locke Lamora, RedCoyote, Sotty7)
I Am Innocent - 3 (Benmage, I Am Innocent, Furcolow)
Oso - 2 (Elmo, Dry-fit)
Benmage - 2 (Mongoose, Imkingdavid)
Redcoyote - 1 (KaleiÐoscøpe)
Jasont1981 - 1 (Nikanor)
Sotty7 - 1 (Percy)
mongoose - 1 (Mina)
Dry-fit - 1 (Oso)
Elmo - 1 (JasonT1981)

Not Voting: ()

If I made any mistakes, please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for (Both phases of) Day 1 is Thursday November 11 at 12pm CST

With 16 alive it's 9 to lynch.

[jasonT1981]

ok, i see above he is lying.... Im happy with my vote.

To me, this still looks a lot like you've just learned he's lying.
If you were town, you'd already know full well he's lying and have no particular reason to reference that.
If you were scum, this would be the earliest you could know he was lying, and it makes sense to think something exactly like that - okay, now I see he's lying. Phew!

Do you see what I'm saying?

Yea, i can fully understand your point of view. see my above post though were I did say he was lying.. my post in question was more of a followup saying 'ok i see he is lying' about his claim. I knew he was lying, but at the time a few seemed to be questioning it. I gues like me they didnt take into account the vanilla setup

[imkingdavid]

Oh, wow I forgot this game was all vanilla/goon as well. So Nik what was the point behind that fakeclaim then? I guess I'm missing something.

[Furcolow]

his fakeclaim left himself a ton of wiggle room
if he was scum, he can just say he wanted to catch scum
if he was town, he can just say he wanted to catch scum

null imo

[Furcolow]

I also see no reason to not use at least 70% of the day on the first lynch
we should definitely be looking to set up chainlynches through who defended who and who attacked who relating to flips

[Nikanor]

You really aint made much of a case though, you have mentioned me really mostly in passing

What.

The way Elmo said it.. it sounded like he already knew allignment with the pretty obiviously mistaken if they think they are scum comment.

So Elmo is scummy because you think he called Benmage and IAI obviously town, but now that he has corrected his meaning, you don't find that scummy any more. So really, you're only voting Elmo for buddying up to IAI, another person who you find scummy.

I stand by my post in 98.. I feel they are valid points.

my 'attacks' on IAI as you say I feel are valid, he spent more time leading direction away from sdcum hunting and towards facts and figures etc. I feel that is anti-town as taking away from scum hunting only helps scum.

The point I was trying to make is that you're attacking Elmo for buddying someone who you've stated is scummy. That doesn't make any sense from a town perspective, because not only is buddying a weak tell, but it shouldn't take precedence over the things you've said about IAI.

Elmo, do you think that jason is scummy?

We should probably try to lynch somebody within the next six days if we're to leave ourselves enough time to fully discuss our second lynch. That's not a lot of time. I'd really like a jason lynch, so hop to it.

[RedCoyote]

also, the town seems really really split on benmage

I noticed this as well. This IAI/Benmage thing is pretty divisive.

---

My first vote was random. Now it is serious business. Why does it matter?

Hm. It's a pretty big coincidence I guess, given that there are 16 players in the game.

---

ok,

i see above he is lying

.... Im happy with my vote. A claim like that could have outted a real cop.

Shouldn't you already know he was lying? What did you see?

Unvote

;

vote:jasonT1981

And how could a real Cop be outed in a mountainous game?

This is quite telling if you ask me.

---

my vote was based on your rolecop claim, claiming me as scum.. at the time I thought you were being serious and I had not realized it was all vanilla.

I don't buy this. jason sounds like he's scrambling here. He slipped up.

[Dry-fit]

Wouldn't it make more sense to lynch the first day and then see what we decide from there?

This was something I'd meant to ask you on in pregame before being side-tracked by another game. By "see what we decide from there," were you arguing that we should use both lynches, or just that we should lynch first before no-voting?

I wasn't advocating either strategy. I was saying IF we were going to only lynch once in a day, there would be no possible advantage in no lynching the first day, because all that does is make it so we can't change our minds later.

I'll let Imkingdavid answer himself on his definition of "antitown," but do you suspect I am Innocent, dry-fit? Do you think his behaviour is a sign of scumminess?

IAI is one of the players I suspect the most, but the main reason I asked IKD that question is because it seemed strange to say a player isn't acting anti-town right after they had gone on a self-voting tantrum.

Second, now Dry-fit is the one who is stretching. I have posted a defense against Elmo and IaI's votes against me here. It holds almost no analysis except for the part where I say I might have drawn IaI's vote because following the RC/Percy player chain of votes on Sotty7 for questioning IaI backwards, leads right back to IaI.

Maybe analysis wasn't the right word. It appeared to me that you were getting too worked up about early votes. It seemed obvious that Red had simply missed IAI say Ben's plan was scummy. If saying something verifiably wrong is almost always worthy of a vote, is Nikanor scummy for claiming daycop?

Furculow's posts up to this point have been terrible. He asks people to tell him which wagon is best, jumps on one of the biggest wagons, and then suggests we name all the scum and set up chain lynches.

However, that does look like a slip by jason.

Unvote. Vote: jasonT1981

[I Am Innocent]

I also see no reason to not use at least 70% of the day on the first lynch
we should definitely be looking to set up chainlynches through who defended who and who attacked who relating to flips

First sentence, agree with
Second sentence, disagree with

In my filler post, information instead of analysis mind, I'd like to see about 1 week (or less) on the first lynch each day, and then a majority of time feeding off of that and getting a solid second lynch in as well.

Otherwise, the second lynch will be rushed each week. Rushed lynches rarely work out (in the short term anyway) to town's benefit.

My thoughts:
Still think Oso is scum
Jasont seems shady as all get out
Nik I get a town read on.

JasonT says Elmo is buddying to townie me. Yet Elmo was the first to mention that oso post on page 3 (then me), first to vote oso (then me), and I was the one who called elmo town. Does not add up to him buddying me, but vice versa...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

uhm... so when kingdavid says he forgot it means nothing, but when jason says he forgot it's a scumtell? Seriously?

I'm still happy with my vote.

[Sotty7]

I'm spread a little thin right now. I know I owe this game a post, but I owe other games more.

I'll be back later.

[jasonT1981]

---

my vote was based on your rolecop claim, claiming me as scum.. at the time I thought you were being serious and I had not realized it was all vanilla.

I don't buy this. jason sounds like he's scrambling here. He slipped up.

What crap.......

read my initial post and you will see I initially called him a lier in my vote post

Is it a coincidence that you're already voting him or not?

No, I'm a day cop. jasonT is mafia.

is this serious?

unvote
vote: Nik

flat out lie. He is not a day cop.. If he was, he would know my proper role and not that I am mafia.

As I posted that, in the above he had admitted to lying.

And no I am not seriously claiming day cop.

to which I followed up with

ok, i see above he is lying.... Im happy with my vote. A claim like that could have outted a real cop.

you say your vote aint random and its down to business... with a fake cop claim? if its serious... present your case and defend your lies, scum!

You will see I actually DID think there was a rolecop in the game and had concerns it could out someone in that role not remembering it was all vanilla... If I knew it was all Vanilla, why would I worrry about a rolecop claim and a guilty on me from a rolecop? you will see I was not the only one.

Oh, wow I forgot this game was all vanilla/goon as well. So Nik what was the point behind that fakeclaim then? I guess I'm missing something.

is this serious?

Now, the serious question as already been asked but I will add too..

uhm... so when kingdavid says he forgot it means nothing, but when jason says he forgot it's a scumtell? Seriously?

I'm still happy with my vote.

Fur also didn't realize and not a thing said...I simply didn't realize this game was all vanilla at time of posting..

I called Nik a liar in my initial response to him...
I posted a vote based on his lie
I then see above my post he admitted to lying.. and post so I see he is lying. meaning he just admitted to lying.

[Furcolow]

I also see no reason to not use at least 70% of the day on the first lynch
we should definitely be looking to set up chainlynches through who defended who and who attacked who relating to flips

First sentence, agree with
Second sentence, disagree with

In my filler post, information instead of analysis mind, I'd like to see about 1 week (or less) on the first lynch each day, and then a majority of time feeding off of that and getting a solid second lynch in as well.

Otherwise, the second lynch will be rushed each week. Rushed lynches rarely work out (in the short term anyway) to town's benefit.

My thoughts:
Still think Oso is scum
Jasont seems shady as all get out
Nik I get a town read on.

JasonT says Elmo is buddying to townie me. Yet Elmo was the first to mention that oso post on page 3 (then me), first to vote oso (then me), and I was the one who called elmo town. Does not add up to him buddying me, but vice versa...

a lot of REALLY good players, Vi for example, disagree with you
they feel that dragged out days hurt the town
like this one
if people would get off their asses and lynch you we would probably catch a scum

Mod note: Something is wrong with the boards and I am unable to post in forum or send pms (I can edit, so I'm utilizing that to inform you guys what's going on. The timestamps are causing posts to be posted above posts that were actually made before it, so I have locked the forum to prevent confusion as I'm not sure that the placement of the posts can be fixed after the fact.

[Kinetic]

Hello. Zach is currently unable to post or PM, thus the thread has been locked. I will be speaking with Zach and his backup VP Baltar to get things back on track ASAP. Thank you for your patience while we sort this out.

[Zachrulez]

Ok, I can post again. Enough time has passed to where there should be no issues with the time stamps so I went ahead and unlocked the thread. I will make a slight adjustment to the deadline to reflect the thread being locked.

[Zachrulez]

Vote Count #6 of D1 P1

I Am Innocent - 3 (Benmage, I Am Innocent, Furcolow)
Jasont1981 - 3 (Nikanor, RedCoyote, Dry-fit)
Nikanor - 2 (Locke Lamora, Sotty7)
Benmage - 2 (Mongoose, Imkingdavid)
Oso - 1 (Elmo)
Redcoyote - 1 (KaleiÐoscøpe)
Sotty7 - 1 (Percy)
mongoose - 1 (Mina)
Dry-fit - 1 (Oso)
Elmo - 1 (JasonT1981)

Not Voting: ()

If I made any mistakes, please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for (Both phases of) Day 1 is Thursday November 12 at 12pm CST

With 16 alive it's 9 to lynch.

[Furcolow]

unvote;
vote: dry-fit

following my heart

[RedCoyote]

uhm... so when kingdavid says he forgot it means nothing, but when jason says he forgot it's a scumtell? Seriously?

I'm still happy with my vote.

kingdavid and Furcolow didn't use it as an excuse to get defensive and lose their cool. jason clearly overreacted. Everyone knew Nikanor was lying. Hell, I even told Nikanor immediately after he "claimed" that I wanted him to be serious.

[Oso]

Apologies for not posting so much, I like to get in a minimum of once a day.

Like my vote where it is at so it stays there on Dry-fit for now.

Nik/ImKingDavid/jason. Friggin hilarious man, seriously.

@Dry-fit, when you said this:

..
..If saying something verifiably wrong is almost always worthy of a vote, is Nikanor scummy for claiming daycop?
..

I'd say yes if I hadn't played mafia with Nik before. I would have mentioned it (with or without a vote, probably without) but in this case, with the interaction between Nik, David and Jason. I say this instead.



As much as it pains me to admit though. Dry-Fit does have a point about Furcolow but since Dry-fit dropped me so quickly in favor of an easier target, I'll stay with him.

I'm liking a Dry-fit/Furcolow pairing for 2/3rds of the scum team.
Basically FOS a scumbuddy:

..
Furculow's posts up to this point have been terrible. He asks people to tell him which wagon is best, jumps on one of the biggest wagons, and then suggests we name all the scum and set up chain lynches.

However, that does look like a slip by jason.
Unvote. Vote: jasonT1981

Then vote a townie. (Yes, I do think jason stands a decent chance of being town because that whole thing regarding him and the Nikanor claim just strikes me as too bizzare to be anything but genuine.)

And then the scumbuddy counter-votes the FOS, 2nd post up above this one, with basically no real reason given.

unvote;
vote: dry-fit
following my heart

[Nikanor]

Still think Oso is scum
Jasont seems shady as all get out

But who is scummier, and why?

I'd say yes if I hadn't played mafia with Nik before. I would have mentioned it (with or without a vote, probably without) but in this case, with the interaction between Nik, David and Jason. I say this instead.

But I actually was a cop in yabbaguy's game. >_>

Yes, I do think jason stands a decent chance of being town because that whole thing regarding him and the Nikanor claim just strikes me as too bizzare to be anything but genuine.

Only I'm allowed to WIFOM myself into finding town, because I'm the only one who does it right.
That he voted me and called me a liar is null, because that would have had to have been his reaction as either alignment. I'm still voting for him based upon his earlier play.

he would know my proper role and not that I am mafia.

I'm surprised that Team SS (Semantic Scumhunters) hasn't pointed this out yet.

Yea, i can fully understand your point of view.

This doesn't look like he's talking to someone who he thinks is scum.

[Locke Lamora]

Unvote; Vote: Dry-fit

I think Jason's 'slip' is being blown way out of proportion and Dry-fit is trying to capitalise on that.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Waiting for a dry-fit defense before my vote changes. Def tempted to vote him though

[I Am Innocent]

Having trouble sleeping, so I decided to reread this whole thread since my other game is in night stage.

Came across this that I missed first time:

Ran the numbers. Assuming completely random lynches and utilizing all day lynches, the winning pcts are:
Town 39%
Scum 61%
(maximum 10 lynches over 5 days to catch 3 scum, 4 scum NK)

Assuming completely random lynches and

only utilizing one day lynch

, the winning pcts drop to:
Town 18%
Scum 82%
(maximum 7 lynches over 7 days to catch 3 scum, 7 scum NK)

Let's just say passes, especially early in the game, are going to benefit scum.

Few posts later:

Question back at you: Was the information I provided helpful to the town? Was it hurtful to the mafia?

It was null. It was filler. Therefore it was scummy and not helpful for the town. It was information on useless points because my initial point was based on the idea of not seeing the flips. I had forgotten that Zach said flips would be instantly revealed and corrected myself.

Had they been hidden, I would've pushed for a D1 only 1 lynch

.

I just proved a few posts earlier that one lynch a day is worse for town than two lynches a day, even if they are random.

The underlined above is scummy. It shouldn't matter whether a flip is revealed or not, we are still better off, ESPECIALLY D1, lynching the two most scummy looking people, even if we don't get an instant flip on the first player.

Disagree?