Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[Professor Paradox]

Unvote, Vote Bowser

[Pineapple]

I just commented on random stuff I saw while catching up. If you want me to comment on anything specific, just tell me.
@bv310: Please post a vote count. —Apple

Who do you think is scum? Do you have any opinion other than just defending yourself?

This has yet to be answered. I am disappoint.

that question was directed towards my partner who is replacing out at the moment. so it likely will go unanswered.

i am also willing to hammer bv311 if needed, but only after a claim.

[Pineapple]

EBWOP: ~Narsis

[AKnottedRope]

that question was directed towards my partner who is replacing out at the moment. so it likely will go unanswered.

You and your partner didn't discuss it in your QT?

~Cream

[Chimaira]

@IceCream, remind me what you think Bowser's done that's scummy as opposed to anti-town if you will. We've got a case for active lurking for him but it seems like we've got one of those for bv311. We've got some potential connections with Bowser's early posting but mostly it just looks unimpressive rather than super-scummy to me. With bv311 we've got lack of a presence early in the game (other than the avatar hi jinx) but lack of a presence isn't something that should help someone. Bowser's a fine wagon but I'm not sure why you think it's markedly better than bv311 and perhaps you can clear that up for me.

My other head made a pretty succinct case against bowser earlier iirc.

There is something seriously wrong with this game if you think actions that occurred during pregame are still the scummiest thing in the thread so far. I do appreciate the move over to bv after this though. But seriously, we're 14 pages in. Bowser should probably be replaced.

@TnJ: Bowser only posts after getting prodded were as bv is actively following the thread as demonstrated by his pop up the minute a wagon started on him. I'm not sure I buy his “I might need to replace out” while still pointing the finger at Fourtigers as scummy. He's following along enough to know what is going on but doesn't actually do anything.

Let me ask you the same question, why would you rather have a Bowser lynch than a bv one?

~Sotty

[Faranor]

@Faranor, do you still think that bv311 is likely to be town?

Gut says he's town. I don't like his refusal to post anything worth while, or the lurking or pretty much anything but I think the whole fucking around early with the name and avatar are a reasonably strong town tell.

I think Pineapple's scum, Bowser's not an unacceptable wagon but I prefer Pineapple.

Troll what do the numbers next to the players names in your vote count refer to?

[Faranor]

I just commented on random stuff I saw while catching up. If you want me to comment on anything specific, just tell me.
@bv310: Please post a vote count. —Apple

Who do you think is scum? Do you have any opinion other than just defending yourself?

This has yet to be answered. I am disappoint.

that question was directed towards my partner who is replacing out at the moment. so it likely will go unanswered.

i am also willing to hammer bv311 if needed, but only after a claim.

So your partner never mentioned any scum reads in the quicktopic, at all is what you're telling me.

[Chimaira]

@TomAndJerry and Pineapple, everyone should be willing to hammer to prevent a no lynch. If you're actually ready to make that happen it'll be time to ask for a claim. There's every reason to make intent clear here as we don't want unnecessary claims.

@Faranor, the numbers by the players indicate the order in which the votes were cast. Faranor (12) means that the vote showing up on the vote count was the 12th vote cast today. I use it for breaking deadline ties when I'm modding (and if I put the information in the vote counts there can't be any objections that people didn't know who was going to be the tie breaker.) In this game that doesn't matter but it still gives me a feel for how the votes are spaced out. As I'm just copying the vote count from the notes I'm keeping (so that I don't have to rely on mod vote counts to know the state of the game) so the rest of you get to see it as well.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[bv310]

Official Vote Count:

bv311(L-1): Crab Canon, Chimaira, FourTigers, MasterSpy, Mr Smith, IceCream
Bowser(L-4): bv311, TomAndJerry, Professor Paradox
Professor Paradox (L-6): Pineapple
Pineapple (L-6): Faranor

Not Voting: Bowser

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is currently set for Saturday, October 30, 2010 at 11:59pm EST

I've found one head replacement for Fenhl, but I'm still searching for one, maybe two more. I will decide based on how soon my other PMs get answered, whether I'll extend deadline or not (I'm leaning towards yes)

For the record Myk, I meant that I don't like searching for replacements this much. I meant nothing about my players' responsibility.

[Pineapple]

that question was directed towards my partner who is replacing out at the moment. so it likely will go unanswered.

You and your partner didn't discuss it in your QT?

~Cream

nope.

I just commented on random stuff I saw while catching up. If you want me to comment on anything specific, just tell me.
@bv310: Please post a vote count. —Apple

Who do you think is scum? Do you have any opinion other than just defending yourself?

This has yet to be answered. I am disappoint.

that question was directed towards my partner who is replacing out at the moment. so it likely will go unanswered.

i am also willing to hammer bv311 if needed, but only after a claim.

So your partner never mentioned any scum reads in the quicktopic, at all is what you're telling me.

besides agreeing with my PP vote way back when, you are correct.

@Troll: i believe i did ask for him to claim...although perhaps a bit indirectly. and yes i have every intent to hammer him at this point in time.

@ bv310: yes you are looking for replacements, but even under a BaM ruleset i'm not sure you could modkill anyone(except maybe Bowser) so far as that would punish the partners who are actively playing.

~Narsis

[IceCream]

@IceCream, remind me what you think Bowser's done that's scummy as opposed to anti-town if you will. We've got a case for active lurking for him but it seems like we've got one of those for bv311. We've got some potential connections with Bowser's early posting but mostly it just looks unimpressive rather than super-scummy to me. With bv311 we've got lack of a presence early in the game (other than the avatar hi jinx) but lack of a presence isn't something that should help someone. Bowser's a fine wagon but I'm not sure why you think it's markedly better than bv311 and perhaps you can clear that up for me.

My other head made a pretty succinct case against bowser earlier iirc.

There is something seriously wrong with this game if you think actions that occurred during pregame are still the scummiest thing in the thread so far. I do appreciate the move over to bv after this though. But seriously, we're 14 pages in. Bowser should probably be replaced.

Are things that happened during the (extremely lengthy) pregame any less valid than things that happened after the game started?

[Mr Smith]

There is something seriously wrong with this game if you think actions that occurred during pregame are still the scummiest thing in the thread so far.

Nope, that is the way mafia games work. When things settle, scum do too. The first few pages are always the most important.

Now, I haven't been very productive lately, and I'm sorry for that. I'd like to have some talk with my partner, but we haven't talked lately. Further, I'm questioning if I actually enjoy this game, and that is of course not a great motivation. Partner, I need you.

[Chimaira]

@Pineapple, saying that you're willing to hammer if needed but only after a claim doesn't give the same impression as saying that you're ready to hammer and want a claim. Thank you for clearing up your intentions there.

@bv311, you should claim at this point.

@IceCream, important things can happen in pregames. This time, as far as I can tell, you're saying that someone having silly opinions about what's reasonable for a pregame vote vs. a pregame FoS when neither actually get anyone closer to a lynch is the scummiest thing that's happened all game. I'm fine if you think that it's scummy (though personally I think that it's awkward phrasing and not well thought out policy which is what I end up thinking of most of the cases that get made very early in games.) The issue here as far as I'm concerned is that you think it's a big enough deal that nothing that's happened after that is going to give you a better indication that someone's scum.

@Mr Smith, I suppose it's possible that you believe that the first few pages of the game are always the most important. It's a pretty absurd position in my opinion. Parama's seen me hunt for scum recently in a large, complicated game (Of Gods and Men) and if that was him posting I hope that he realizes that the first few pages in that game weren't particularly vital. It's the overall shape of play that's important; as often as not (and this is what was useful in Of Gods and Men) is what people aren't saying and the gaps between posts that are useful for finding scum. Unless you think that town start the game entirely settled themselves looking for the unsettled play at the start of the game isn't really a good way to pick out scum so much as it's a good way to pick out players who are unprepared.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[IceCream]

Chimaira: Difference of opinion, I guess. But this argument is moot now, seeing that we both want a bv lynch. Speaking of which

Bv311, how about giving us a claim?

[Mr Smith]

@Zorblag: I thought you knew that I stopped actually reading Of Gods And Men at a certain point and just posted to avoid prods? That game ended up being way too much walls and not enough actual scumhunting in thread, and it didn't help that there was a mini-network of neighborbs making it impossible for anyone not confirmed to do anything anyways. I hated that game :/

The heads of the hydra have come to a consensus, and that consensus is:
The bv311 wagon has a lot of our town reads on it, and even though Bowser is probably a better lynch, it also seems a likely counterwagon to a bv3scum wagon.

[TomAndJerry]

No it would haven’t been any less efficient in terms of outing Prof’s fake name-claim.

There would be noise about why I was asking Prof questions/specific more personal questions. With just questions there may be a few who are like ugh questions suck but they still get answered faster.

You have to know that there was no way for Prof to continue to fake-claim the second you called him out. If Elli had persisted all you would have to do is make a response post and ‘accidently’ post from Lat and he was toast.

Not necessarily, maybe if it was just anyone then yeah but with Elli I wouldn't have been surprised if he was so bold to do so. Even if he would have confronted and outed himself I feel there'd be better reactions then rather than after a claim.

@Regarding the questioning thing, I figured it was just a standard thing for anyone to do.

===========================================================================

@Regarding Prof/Mr Smith

ugh… my town read on Prof is slowly diminishing because of that pointless spat. I could see some sort of point behind a fakeclaim but that? No way. Prof/Ellie, could you elaborate more on your scum reads?

Mr Smith is… meh. It's frustrating because he doesn't even answer the questions I direct at him and he's lately he's been spending his time posting fluff.

===========================================================================

This post makes no sense at all. Saying you might replace after giving everyone a choice of when you'll make your case? This doesn't make sense because at the same time you're saying you think the deadline should be extended because of the amount of replacements. It'd make way more sense for you to ask that if you planned on continuing the game and posting your case however since you didn't, then it just looks like your stalling for time.

Case/Claim Now.

The bv311 wagon has a lot of our town reads on it, and even though Bowser is probably a better lynch, it also seems a likely counterwagon to a bv3scum wagon.

Elaborate on what you mean by the counterwagon comment please. Why would Bowser be a better lynch if you think bv is scum?

@Pineapple

There's almost no mention of Bowser in your Iso, care to explain?

[TomAndJerry]

~Tom

I gotta stop forgetting that...

[IceCream]

Tom, I think Smith is saying that the Bowser wagon is a scum-driven alternative to the Bv wagon, but that doesn't exactly make sense given that the Bowser wagon existed long before the bv wagon.

[Crab Canon]

third, @ CC: why the start of the bv311 bandwagon? i agree with it in the sense that i dont like his play so far this game either, and i'm not against lynching him, but to me it seemed to come almost out of the blue and/or in response to Zorblag putting him on his shortlist.

lol, you seriously think it's related to troll. This post to me looks like Pineapple hedging his bets on his buddy getting run up out of nowhere. The reason I voted bv311 was because he was doing nothing and I wanted a read on him. His intent to continue to do nothing shows me that he stands at least a decent chance of being scum and would be a great lynch today. You saying 'oh well, I'd vote him but I'm not going to' screams scum buddy. If he flips scum, you may as well kill us tonight because I'm going to want you dead tomorrow.

Good work Mr Smith and Professor Paradox! You've managed to pull each other off (and thus to an extent undermine) legitimate wagons (Bowswer and bv311) for an exchange that doesn't do anything to show that either of you are the least bit scummy

VP agrees

I still think Bowser is scummier than bv. bv is antitown, but Bowser has been overtly scummy.

I'd like you to elaborate on the specifics of this please.

I’m annoyed because of the inconsistency. Your Hydra began the game stating that not presenting identities of the Hydras immediately was scummy. The premise for this is that Town benefited from the information provide. Yet when Elli specifically went out of his way to lie about his indentity for the lulz your slot writes it off as ‘Elli being Elli’. If you are arguing that Elli specifically putting false information into the thread is not scummy because it would be eventually revealed why isn’t the same valid for those Hydra’s who didn’t immediately disclose their identity. Both circumstances are withholding information from Town. I’m big on consistency.

These are not the same situation at all. Not revealing your heads is an intentional act to withhold information. Elli faking to be someone else is something that is more stupid than anything else. You can't say that heads would eventually be revealed when it was obvious that yourself and others don't think that or you would have simply revealed. I'm sure Elli knew perfectly well that his charade wasn't going anywhere as soon as he did it.

Are things that happened during the (extremely lengthy) pregame any less valid than things that happened after the game started?

I agree with Troll that you're not trying if that's the best you can do on page 14.

[Crab Canon]

Also, repeating the request for a claim. Now. The longer you stall bv, the more you look like scum. I already know you stalk this thread.

[IceCream]

I agree with Troll that you're not trying if that's the best you can do on page 14.

Normally, this would be the case. However, given how scummy Bowser was early, and then given how he has posted sparsely since then, it's all we've got to go on in regards to that playerslot. Thus, things that Bowser did in pregame justify my strong scumread of him.

However, did you miss where I'm on the bv wagon now?

[bv311]

other hydra head here. I'll admit to coasting on the thread, because I had left my partner to making his Fourtigers case, as he had initially suggested it. I still think Bowser is our best lynch for the day.

claim: VT

[Pineapple]

third, @ CC: why the start of the bv311 bandwagon? i agree with it in the sense that i dont like his play so far this game either, and i'm not against lynching him, but to me it seemed to come almost out of the blue and/or in response to Zorblag putting him on his shortlist.

lol, you seriously think it's related to troll. This post to me looks like Pineapple hedging his bets on his buddy getting run up out of nowhere. The reason I voted bv311 was because he was doing nothing and I wanted a read on him. His intent to continue to do nothing shows me that he stands at least a decent chance of being scum and would be a great lynch today. You saying 'oh well, I'd vote him but I'm not going to' screams scum buddy. If he flips scum, you may as well kill us tonight because I'm going to want you dead tomorrow.

no i didnt seriously think it was related to troll. but thought i'd ask anyway.

also interesting to note that this post looks like you planning on running me up to a lynch tomorrow regardless of what i do. good ol' damned if i do; damned if i dont.

also i never said that i'd vote him but i'm not going to. i said i'd vote him but wanted a claim from him first.

and he just claimed. VT.

good ol' damned if i do; damned if i dont in your eyes. if i hammer him here and he flips VT, then you are all over me for being an obvscum hammer. if i hammer here and he flips scum, then you are all over me for bussing my partner that is an inevitable lynch. if i dont hammer and someone else does and he flips scum, i look like i was trying to avoid hammering my partner. if i dont hammer and someone else does and he flips town, i look like i was scum trying to avoid a townie lynch.


but anyway a VT claim isn't reason enough to not hammer him. he hasn't been contributing and has been actively lurking.

Unvote

VOTE: bv311

[bv311]

I forget who asked, but the reason why fourtigers statement of "I'll vote largest bandwagon despite a week left before deadline" is scummy because its saying that they will not even bother to look at other options, nor scumhunt, even with a week left before deadline.

They also stated that they had previously expressed interest in lynching us. Yeah, you did. 4 times in fact, after thread opened and before we even had a chance to talk.

Pineapple and fourtigers are scum.

Honestly, pineapple, that's got to be the scummiest hammer I have seen in a long long long while. I just got home, and you did not even give anyone else a chance to express their views on the matter.

I REPEAT, PINEAPPLE IS SCUM.
NOW GO OUT AND WIN THIS FOR US TOWN.

p.s. THANKS FOR FINALLY SHOWING UP PARTNER. OUR QT HAS BEEN SILENT FOR AT LEAST 4 DAYS NOW.

[bv311]

And I will post my fourtigers case if I can quickly squeeze it in in the next hour.