Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Feysal]

Your plan could work, but contrary to you, I'm wondering if cult sharing targets is actually a viable strategy. It gives 2 players a claimable night action for the price of 1 player that they then can't kill.

I doubt two cultists would claim warding the same target. It draws attention, and they'd want to avoid that. You can fake claim searching for equipment easily enough.

(a) some cult not fake-claiming ward on their craft fetish target
(b) some cult claiming to have heard noise when they didn't
(c) some wannabe murderers on the loose

What do people think the likeliest reasons are? I say reasons, because it has to be a combination of at least 2 of the above...and I think it could be a combination of all three =_="

(a) Absolutely. You can craft up to three fetishes with a single action, there are bound to be many fetished targets.
(b) Very probably. The cultists would stand out if they never heard noise, they'd try to blend in.
(c) Probably. There could be overlap between stalked and fetished targets too.

I say that it probably is a combination of all three.

I've liked xvart's recent contributions better as well. The ward thing is actually one reason I'm not voting him. Both Baby Spice and xvart look suspicious, but one of them probably did actually ward MoI. Both of them making the same false claim would be a really long shot, and

I've been wondering lately about a possible Baby Spice/Plum connection.

Details on the bold?

This goes back to post #680 and the posts that follow. Plum mentioned two players warding the same target, but she was really vague about what she thought it meant. When asked whether it had something to do with Baby Spice, she said it was more likely to be the flip side. I've never seen her follow up on this, despite saying she would read on Baby Spice. Basically I wonder if she has been avoiding the subject. So, her early posts look very much town, but her continuing suspicion of Seacore looks bad. The thought of Baby Spice and Plum being cult together has crossed my mind. Baby Spice is definitely more suspicious, but if she turns out to be cult, Plum could well be another.

[xvart]

With xvart's list complete, this is everybody's last chance to admit they cowered or laundered during N0

Assuming nil returns on that, the only people who should have insanity points at this stage are Cultists who crafted 3 fetishes, potential murderers and benmage.*

I think we are long past the time when it is okay to reclaim information...

I disagree with you on a lot of this

What do you disagree with and why?

The one that isn't signed, mebbe 3 in the hydra's history iirc. It's not deflection, which is a horrible argument by itself as you can basically scream that everytime someone under attack does anything. I'd also totally forgotten the sottyrulez portion of the hydras earlier posting, and I think it's relatively(?) well know zach dislikes scum and lurks when scum for the most part.

Deflection is probably the wrong word, but I can't think of a proper description. It just felt like Mina was fishing for some excuse by trying to pull in another hydra to the argument, and the entire post was directed at hydra dynamics. And I don't see the relevance to Zach disliking being scum and lurking as scum as it is not Zach in the player slot; it is a hydra of three people. Maybe Zach wasn't even planning on posting at all, just throwing thoughts out in their QT. Maybe a ton of different things since the dynamic of a hydra is completely different than one individual.

Why would I try to save Furcolow if I was cult. Why. There is no reason.

Why would I call out Seacore out of the blue if I was cult. Why? Again, no reason.

Why would I do pretty much ANYTHING I've done this game, if I was cult?

If I was cult, I would know how the kill mechanism worked, so I wouldn't ask.

I answered all these questions here.

We're against the RC wagon and pretty much agree with what you said about his “slip” in that we don't think it is very much of one at all. All in all it feels like an opportunistic wagon when we have much better avenues to pursue. Namely Seacore and LB. Do you think Bowser is a better lynch than RC?

I would typically agree about a contradiction involving stating opinions on how hydras should operate; but the fact that he used both opposing views to cast suspicion on someone is the scummiest part about it.

How come it took you so long to claim who you warded, xvart?

1

You were perfectly willing for such a list to be created and kindly asked for this info from everyone.

Heck, you even put the list together yourself. I would think you'd put your own claims on there as well.

2

And if it was

ME

creating that list, I'd have put my claims on there

sooner

rather than later. I would think you would do the same.

Now, I find it odd that, even though you were so willing to create a list, you were reluctant to reveal your actions for last night. In fact, only TWO players in the entire 28-player game (Furpants_Tom and El Goosuki) claimed any actions AFTER you.

3

That's pretty sketchy in and of itself.

The fact that you MADE the list makes it even MORE sketchy.

And what's even

MORE

sketchy, is that you claimed to have warded a target that you KNOW already heard noise (Magna). I mean, it literally took 12 pages after he claimed it for you to claim yours (or at least, that's what I'm estimating by looking at the post numbers I've

bolded

and put in

red

above, which say you claimed it nearly 300 posts after his claim).

"Conspiracy theorist smoking gun": I also find it QUITE convenient that 'B' (for Baby Spice, the other person who warded Magna) comes right at the BEGINNING of the list, and X comes right at the END of the list (yes, it's in alphabetical order. I see that).

4

But that is probably just you choosing the farthest possible ward target from yourself, and hoping that nobody would notice.

5

That nobody would notice you conveniently claiming the exact same ward target as somebody else, who happens to be at the opposite end of the list. After they claimed it. After EVERYONE ELSE HAD ALREADY CLAIMED. Very convenient indeed.

1

At the time of my initial claim there had been no discussion of claiming ward targets. I didn't claim my target because I didn't know if it was better for the town to claim or not claim. I waited so long to claim (as you put it) because nobody ever asked me and the claiming of actual targets didn't ever come up (unless Benmage and Fate had a discussion during their fight about claiming ward targets that I didn't read).

2

I did put my claims on the list when I made it. I just did not claim who I warded.

3

I claimed in my first post; just not my ward target. I claimed my ward target when several people asked and it became obvious to me that I was the only one that didn't claim.

4

Your alphabetical list is extremely conspiracy theory, as I simply copied the player list from the first post.

5

I'd have to be pretty stupid to think that nobody would notice; but if part of your case on me is that I'm exceptionally stupid then your point stands.

I do like how you essentially gave up in your previous post and then throw together this last ditch effort of a scumhunt post on me regarding a topic that has already been discussed to some degree with a bunch of nonsensical "scum made an alphabetical list where he is at the end and the other person is at the beginning." Had you actually tried to put some motivations behind it or why I would keep my ward target a secret or maybe that Baby Spice and I concocted this "great" plan to make sure we got an obvious discrepancy to hide some cult actions, you might have made your point a little more valid.

The fact remains that there are seven cultists and some number of them are likely lying about their actions/noises last night; and you think the best I could come up with to hide my actions was to withhold my ward target until someone at the beginning of the list claimed a target in hopes I wouldn't get noticed? What did the rest of my supposed Cult buddies do to hide their actions? Why did I not do something less obvious like the rest of my alleged buddies? Unless of course your case does actually hinge on me being a total idiot; in which case you're going to have to provide more evidence to back that up.

xvart.

[rewq455]

I am sorry Percy, but I do not have as much spare time as I thought I would and do not have the time to keep up with more than one game. Requesting replacement. My sincerest apologies.

[ReaperCharlie]

cool story bro.

vote: xvart

[AurorusVox]

RC, I asked you a question. Let's not do this whole "not answering" thing again, eh?

[kunkstar7]

The townies:
Hito, Fate, benmage, Plum, wicked

Meh:
Baby Spice: For the comments about Paranoid and Sadism. I don't see how you could find out voting insanities on day one, it seems like an unnecessary distraction.
Bowser, manho: For nothing from their slots.


Scum:
nopointinactingup: His point about Magna doesn't sit with me.
El Goosuki, the blatant following of RC's "consipracy theory", as "proof" is crazy.

cool story bro.

vote: xvart

Man, this right here is enough to

Vote:RC.

Xvart made a legitimate response to your conspiracist theory and you just dismiss it??

No, we want his grave to be robbed.

@xvart: Why did you make this edit to the original quote?

[ReaperCharlie]

All I read were the last couple posts. I will go look for your question now AV.

kunk's vote is obviously horrible.

[ReaperCharlie]

Didn't RC think BabySpice was scum earlier?

RC

- do you think xvart and BabySpice are scum together, sharing targets?

I thought BabySpice was scummy earlier, yea.

No, you're missing the point. My whole post was written to show one thing.

xvart is lying.

[AurorusVox]

I want to know if you think they are scum

together.

I have follow up questions depending on your answer to that specific question, regardless of what your point is. I'm going to sleep now though so I won't be able to post them til the morning.

[xvart]

No, we want his grave to be robbed.

@xvart: Why did you make this edit to the original quote?

Because I believe he is going to go Murderer, and I would rather have someone robbing his grave (meaning he's dead) than him robbing any grave (being alive). Depending on how many dead bodies we have tomorrow (or the next day depending on who the dead people are), being a grave robber could be a very good investment of insanities for someone to become a Murderer. It automatically explains their high insanity count and it gives him/her information about who the other Murderers are. Like I said before, anyone who volunteers to be a grave robber is highly suspicious in my opinion, but it also depends on the body count tomorrow. If there is a high body count tomorrow and none (or few) of them are obvious vig targets then a Murderer grave robbing scheme would not work as well as a smaller body count.

No, you're missing the point. My whole post was written to show one thing.

xvart is lying.

Prove it. And explain my motivations for such a lie. What was I trying to accomplish by lying and not producing my supposed Ward target until later? What advantage do I have that I didn't have doing whatever else my alleged Cult buddies did to cover their tracks?

xvart.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ xvart: Prove it? I believe I already proved it. And your motivation for lying? Hmmm… maybe because you're cult and don't have anything else you'd like to claim? i.e. crafting a fetish, etc. And I don't know what advantage you'd think you have, but I'm not in the cult so how could I know?

@ AV: I don't know if they're scum together. I think Baby Spice is scummy, but I'm onto something with this xvart thing. I can tell I've hit a nerve. What do YOU think?

[Baby Spice]

1

At the time of my initial claim there had been no discussion of claiming ward targets. I didn't claim my target because I didn't know if it was better for the town to claim or not claim. I waited so long to claim (as you put it) because nobody ever asked me and the claiming of actual targets didn't ever come up (unless Benmage and Fate had a discussion during their fight about claiming ward targets that I didn't read).

LB #10, pro claiming ward targets.
Furc #12 claimed ward target
Hito #13 neutral
LB #23 pro again
MoI #29 pro
Kunk #33 Pro
Feysal #36 proish
Baltar #44 against (Unless asked?)

Then we get to Xvart's claim. Clearly no discussion. Not.

Not much discussion granted, but there was some and it was pretty much pro-claim all the way. (Cult already has a good idea of who got warded so we should know etc.)

2

I did put my claims on the list when I made it. I just did not claim who I warded.

3

I claimed in my first post; just not my ward target. I claimed my ward target when several people asked and it became obvious to me that I was the only one that didn't claim.

Sh**!!!1 That means I am about to die tonight! FFFFFFF

Someone could have warded you, so you are not necessarily dead tonight.

Soft claim??

4

Your alphabetical list is extremely conspiracy theory, as I simply copied the player list from the first post.

The supposition is that you chose a fake ward target using that list to try and help you hide that you faked a target. Not that you did anything silly to the list or made it up or similar.

5

I'd have to be pretty stupid to think that nobody would notice; but if part of your case on me is that I'm exceptionally stupid then your point stands.

Or ballsy. I didn't think much of it until these answers to RC's questions. But my main concern is that ¹ is plain wrong and that first Xvart post looks like it contains a soft claim for a ward target.

The fact remains that there are seven cultists and some number of them are likely lying about their actions/noises last night;

Actually, and perhaps I am tunnelling here, I was thinking someone who stalked might want to claim a pro-town N0 action and target. Cultists could always target each other since only stalk and craft fetish would be a concern with fake warding and the cult know who was fetished and to be frank who nomally would claim to have stalked N0? (Benmage and Fate hate is not what I would consider normal in this sense)

Vote Xvart

[ReaperCharlie]

@ Fate, did you ever answer my post #951? For your convenience, I'll re-post it:

So who's town and who's scum if Seacore flips cult and you get killed tonight, Fate?

Just for the record, since you seem pretty sure you're gonna die anyway?

---

@ AurorusVox:

Interestingly enough, I didn't even see when Vas posted this, lol. But he's right.

ReaperCharlie is town. "I AM MUCH TOO LAZY TO LOOK FOR THEM." Those are the words of a townie.

And the fact that he said that couldn't have had ANYTHING to do with this:

First off, meta wise: This guy is extremely Lazy as Town. Seriously.

[/sarcasm]

BUT, you seem very quick to try to point it out, trying to perform quick damage control on something that could derail my wagon, and trying to immediately nullify anything anybody says about me being town. Which I am.

But that's not the most disturbing part.

Mostly, it's this:

Can you PLEASE explain to the class, exactly when your read on Seacore switched from

this

:

Since then, people have mentioned that Benmage can be thoroughly examined and attacked in later Days, and this satisfies me.

^A lie.

This was mentioned pretty much from the very start, before Benmage claimed stalk. Can you explain this?

MoI - scummy (since changed)
Furc - town
Fate - town
Benmage - scummy
Lost Butterfly - scummy
Totallynotmafia - town
Bowser - scummy? (asked for clarification)
Hito - town (the murder comment was a joke, wasn't that obvious?)
Andrius - scummy
Baby Spice - scummy

Seacore - scummy

I can get on board with either a Seacore or a Baby Spice vote

; my reasons for finding them suspicious are pretty similar.

Vote: Seacore

...to

this

:

I am convinced by many of these RC cases, SeaCore (!!) in particular has been summarising it very well. I still want to do my own ISO of him, but I'm comfortable enough with those summaries to

Vote: ReaperCharlie

for now.

... Apparently now you think that Seacore is town? And not just marginally town, but now a shining townie with a good case on somebody else? Someone you trust so thoroughly that you will now commence sheepage on his case without even doing your own ISO?

OH HEEEEEE777777 NO.

And even if you DID decide that your COMPLETE 180 on Seacore was warranted, it still doesn't explain your next post.

So can you please,

please

explain to me, what POSSIBLE sense I could then make of this post?

Vote: ElGoosuki

Read the thread yourself or ask to get replaced. You're a dead weight for town, but worse than that, you're purposefully not giving anyone any information to work with. You're intentionally playing your vote down as random, to not take responsibility for reasoning on it.

I wouldn't be surprised if you voted for Seacore or ReaperCharlie soon.

Why are you putting me and Seacore in the same category?

Are you saying that we're both TOWN?? If so, when did THAT change?

[totallynotmafia]

Hmm...I was just about to post saying that people who were voting xvart were misguided because it's not that hard to concoct a fake ward target as cult(just say they warded somebody they crafted a fetish of then dont kill that person via the ritual tonight), but then I realised that doesn't take into account investigators who stalked, there is still the possibility of being caught out by a potential murderer....so the only safe way for cult to safely claim a ward is to claim they warded somebody who was already warded...and then of course i noticed that xvart had done just that.

Still there is another factor, but I wont mention it yet.

@MOD: do the cult receive their fetishes the same night that they craft them? Do they receive a message for failed craft fetishes (or can they just assume becuase they didn't receive it)?

@xvart: why did you ward MoI?

@Baby Spice: why did you ward MoI?

[Fate]

Plum-
Looking through Plum's ISO I see no direct questioning of Seacore's play. Awkwardly moved her vote from Bowser to Seacore, after not mentioning Seacore in her initial content posts (cept for a "Seacore first?"). Her vote is an obv hop on hitotown's logic. She continues to exhibit signs of "confirmation bias" in twisting all of Seacore's new posts into scumtells for him, rather than trying to feel out his alignment.-SCUM/SCUMBUSSING That's right Plum. YOU JUST LOST YOUR TOWN READ GIRL

^JUST WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THIS.

DON'T FORGET IT NOW.

YOU SAW IT HERE FIRST

[Andrius]

FINISHED CATCHING UP.
BUT NOT DONE.

Analysis to come later. I have a shitload of Econ HW tonight. Just be glad I caught up.

AND YES FATE.

I hereby acknowledge that I first saw that post from Fate.

<3,

-The Baker

[Fate]

IN FACT WE MAY EVEN WANT TO LYNCH PLUM TODAY.

RC IS OBVSCUM TO BE LYNCHED ON ANY DAY.


PLUMSCUM IS AN EVIL MISTRESS THAT CAN ONLY BE CAUGHT BY PEOPLE WHO'S HEART SHE HAS BROKEN.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PLUM

IM NOT SAYING THE REST OF YOU AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO CATCH PLUMSCUM,

I'M SAYING, YOU'RE ALL YOUNG AND NAIVE.

YOU THINK A WOMAN LOVES YOU AND WANTS TO BE WITH YOU FOREVER AND THAT EVERYTHING WILL BE OK.

BUT SHE'S JUST WAITING FOR THE NEXT BEST OPPORTUNITY AND WON'T HESITATE TO RIP OUT YOUR SOUL, EMPTY YOUR BANK ACCOUNTS, AND LEAVE YOU EMOTIONALLY SCARRED FOR YEARS TO COME.


PLUM LYNCH. MEET FIST. NOW.

[Andrius]

FATE. YOU ARE NOT HELPING.
IF WE HAVE SCUM WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM NOW.
WHY THE HELL WOULD WE WAIT?

I UNDERSTAND YOU SADNESS OVER A RECENT HEARTBREAK (SAME HERE BRO) BUT SRSLY. DON'T TAKE IT OUT ON PLUM.
IF WE ARE LYNCHING PLUM WE ARE NOT DOING IT BECAUSE SHE IS FEMALE AND YOU HAVE GRIEVANCES.

At least make an actual case.

[Plum]

Fate, I love you, but this is the same problem you had when you rabidly went for mith's throat the other night. A reason to want a certain player lynched beyond the actual game information (here, because of how our last game just panned out with you and me combined the realization that under certain circumstances I can fool almost an entire game as scum) contributes to confirmation bias. It's understandable that it happens, but it colors judgment in ways unrelated to actual scumminess of your target.

There are certain things you ought to be counting as 'questioning Seacore's play' or the equivalent thereof. Like so:

Seacore's "WHAT ME? CULT WITH FATE?" is off-putting, whereas Hito's "well you can count me as #3" is more relaxed and town.

Now we're talking.

Not to mention me calling him out on 'even if Benmage is an Investigator and planning on staying that way he's still a great Day 1 lynch because his play is so anti-Town' (when in fact it was not as anti-Town as he proposed and anti-Town Townread lynch is always suboptimal compared to a scum suspect lynch for obvious reasons. I found it contrived and thought it had a reasonable chance of being scum motivated. I found it . . .

questionable

even if I didn't phrase it as a question. You get my drift?

You're right that my play was focusing overmuch on Seacore, something I intend to remedy (but was related to the huge glut of information around. If I can find someone to focus on and feel out, well, at this point its more than I might otherwise be able to say).

Do I need to waste more breath on this, Fate?

[Andrius]

Your speedy response time is noted, Plum. /scribbles away in notepad

[Plum]

...

Your joking response which you have apparently not commented on but saved a reference to for no purpose stated is also noted.

Seriously, this isn't a thing where you'll have more info later to judge whether it's a scumtell or not. If you find it mildly scummy or whatever, say so outright; that doesn't in and of itself bother me. If you don't, well, don't. It's distracting and provides nothing but extra filler, a possible note for something scum can twist to their ends later, and frankly I still associate you joking around with you being scum, but that's peripheral.

If you think it's scummy that I responded quickly, say so. Don't be afraid to comment. Be a man.

[xvart]

Baby Spice (1261) - I like how you are doing the work for RC that he is too lazy to do. It would be especially funny if you and RC were Cult buds and you protected RC with the point by point rebuttal directed at him while he FoSed you and voted townie.

Okay, so there were some opinions stated about claiming Ward targets. Your soft claim comment is wrong; but it would please me if you could clarify the cult motivation for soft claiming a ward target or what benefit that would have if I was busy crafting fetishes or doing something Cultish.

5

I'd have to be pretty stupid to think that nobody would notice; but if part of your case on me is that I'm exceptionally stupid then your point stands.

Or ballsy. I didn't think much of it until these answers to RC's questions. But my main concern is that ¹ is plain wrong and that first Xvart post looks like it contains a soft claim for a ward target.

Yes, I suppose I could be really ballsy; there's nothing I can do to prove otherwise so I'll leave that up to the town's judgment as to whether I have the cajones or not to do something so obvious when there are likely better alternatives out there.

@xvart: why did you ward MoI?

I Warded MoI because of my recent experience with him in Faraday/Seacore's Clash of Kings mafia. He played smart, was able to forecast far into the future, and had an exceptional grip on the game. I thought his smarts and play would be beneficial due to the complex nature of this game.

@Fate

- you disappoint me...

xvart.

[Andrius]

I didn't actually file it away. Though I was going to comment on your recent drop in activity later on.

Its not a scumtell. It is a sign that you are actaully here, despite not posting. I'd have to check timestamps to decide on active lurking or not, (idr times well), but yeah. Its not a scumtell. Its not stand-alone scummy. Its something I noticed that I used to do as scum: my name is said in a voting manner, I come running like "BABY BABY NOOOOO

thought you'd always be mine

".

I was waiting to see what you'd do. And I got what I was expecting, not surprisingly.

FINE. NO JOKING AROUND. THIS IS ALL SRS BSNS FROM NOW ON. NO FUN. NO JOKES. JUST SHIT GETTING REAL AND LYNCHING PEOPLE AS THEIR EYEBALLS GROW WIDE IN DESPAIR AND THEIR DYING BREATH FILLS THE ROTTING ROOM WITH ITS PUNGENT ODOR. AND WE ALL STAND BY COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED BY THE RULE OF THE MOB.

No big deal. I don't see why we need to have fun here.

I'll be back tomorrow with all my

guns blazing

serious-business/shit-hit-the-fan face on.

GENTLEMEN. FUCK THE MURDERERS- THE COWARDS. WE HAVE A ROPE AND A TREE. LET'S GET MEDIEVAL ON THIS CULT.

</3,
Andrius

[Plum]

You expected this; does that mean you were expecting me to act like you as scum?

I don't mind having fun, honestly, but when you make an ambiguous statement about someone's actions and pass it off with a wink and leave the door open for it to be called a scumtell later, well, that sets some bells ringing, you see.

[Fate]

"
@Fate - you disappoint me...

xvart."

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?

PLUM ITS NOT CONFIRMATION BIAS. I HAD NO OUTSIDE INFLUENCES, NO META WITH MITH, NOTHING.

I DIDN"T

WANT

MITH TO BE SCUM, I KNEW ONE OF THE OBVTOWNIES WERE SCUM. I PICKED THE WRONG ONE.

NOT THIS GAME.

NOT THIS GAME BABY.