Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[VasudeVa]

^Scum

[VasudeVa]

If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm using your own buzzwords against you in a final attack of irony.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For ineptitude look above.

The 'using buzzwords is irony' is just a sad response when you made that statement in your 'case'.

Glad to see you know you can't respond in any way that doesn't make you look bad so you go back to Rhetoric and repetition.

[Trilobite]

meh yeah. What up Sotty

*waves* Welcome to hell.

Why the hell are we talking about a town list hat has nothing to do with this game? Redundant.

MoI

: Why no response to this post? Did I provide the answer you were looking for or what? With the tone of the questioning I was expecting at least some follow up there.

I don't normally post as much on MS over the weekends but I am terrified about leaving this game alone for more than a few hours. Later today or tomorrow depending I am going to try and review the MoI case in greater detail. Right now gut says he is an excellent alternative to RC.

~Sotty

[Benmage]

I don't recall pursuing your lynch that long.

Tomorrow when you're dead... I mean my "shindig" turns out to be an act. And I'm not?confirmed town. It would've been wise to have not?warded me.

Is anyone else confused by this post? Ben, are you saying we should ward you tonight or not? And what's the "shindig"?

I'm mocking Fate. Of course you should fucking ward me tonight. I heard No noise last night. And tomorrow I enter the game confirmed town! I can be a huge thorn in the cults side. Its freaking awesome the position we're in.

[Wickedestjr]

Still catching up. There are other choices for bandwagons that I would prefer over ReaperCharlie, but I do like the point about the contradiction and this lynch will tell us a lot, plus I want the day to end.

Have we decided that Benmage is robbing the grave of the player that we lynch today?

[Benmage]

I think we're going with the latter now.

Thats news to me.

In fact, the following people need to contribute immediately. And by contribute I mean either vote for one of the 4 main wagons

with reasons

or provide a case as to why their suspect is so much better than any of the likely wagons that it is worth staying on them.

Benmage

I'm behind in the thread

Wanna bullet the RC case so I know what to look for?

My day today is packed and probably won't be able to get back on again until late evening or night. On Benmage/Fate: Honestly, I want to lynch Benmage today, because I'm like 90% sure he'll murder Fate tonight anyways. I'll ISO RC when I get home and see if it's enough for my vote. Probably will be.

So if I murder fate tonight that clears me 100%. This is very poor play wraith.

Unvote
Vote: Benmage

I will have a rally-esque post tonight on why this is the best move. What kind of rally?

The Rally to Restore Sanity

It will be epic.

It will be awe-inspiring.

And most of all, it will be convincing.

What a town player we have here...Trying to derail the lead wagon so close to the deadline to save his own scummy neck.....hilariousssss

MoI, do you disagree that scum post on average, less than town?

Yes, I disagree from the standpoint that your statement is attempting to assert behaviour in a broad-brush variety. Whether an individual player lurks more as scum than Town depends on the player. You can’t realistically say someone like MPR lurks more as scum than Town. So a broad, general statement is something I will likely not agree with.

Sure I can, cause I used the term on average. As in nothing is absolute. If you want to defend your position with Village idiots as your defense go ahead. But scum post less....GIEFF in mafia 98 ran the numbers on all the players in the game somehow and all but i think alexhans posted drastically less as scum than as town. This was illustrated not with total posts counts at the end of the game, but how often they posted a day when town compared to when scum. Go look for yourself the numbers are drastically lower and I bet if you just made a poll in mafia discussion asking people if they personally post less when scum than when town 90% will agree.

So in fact I change myself from on average, to most fucking people.

[Benmage]

Have we decided that Benmage is robbing the grave of the player that we lynch today?

Uhm? There's a huge gap of pages from like 36-55 that I didn't read well....Am I doing this?

[Lost Butterfly]

Okay, there's less than 5 days left. Anybody coming on and posting "I don't like the RC wagon" isn't good enough.

You must make a case on somebody else. Preferably xvart or myself. (Preferably not myself).

Anybody who just turns up and just says "The RC wagon looks bad, I'm not convinced" is not being pro-town.

You've got me here.

I had started an impassioned wall post on Thursday night, saying that this was turning into a dogpile, that everyone's tunnel vision was feeding on itself, that every fibre of me felt that it was going to be a mislynch, yadda yadda. Then I had to get off the computer unexpectedly, and lost the post. But right now, with twelve votes on ReaperCharlie two days before, you're right that anything I post in his defence is somewhat self-serving...because the truth is that I don't have a firm direction elsewhere. With twenty-eight players, I'm having trouble deciding where to focus and apply pressure.

But like Faraday, I'm baffled by all the people saying that he's started looking scummier while under pressure. To me, it's the very opposite. Yes, his "Why would I defend Furcolow were I scum?" is ridiculous. But this really does not feel like scum flailing. I'm actually in agreement with DGB that his frustration looks very townish. I can give quotes to show what I mean if someone wants.

Admittedly, I haven't got a chance to check RC's meta. Purely by skimming the beginning of Harry Potter, I got the feeling that he was more calculated and meeker and more wishy-washy there.

But also, I get the feeling that certain people are confusing "erratic" behaviour with scummy behaviour. I think it's much scummier to avoid making waves and stay under the radar and post nothing but safe set-up speculation and Iteration #4343 of "Fate is town" than to be a raving loony. To be entirely honest, it was really starting to get to me a couple of days ago when some players were nitpicking over every sentence I made and others were just ignoring everything I said and going, "Lost Butterfly is OBVSCUM! LYNCH THEM!" If I were under as much pressure as ReaperCharlie is now, I'd probably be incoherent rage.

What I can do is spend the next few days spamming the thread with my opinions on other players. I think both xvart and Magna would be more useful to the town than RC if they're

town

, but I think both are more likely to flip scum than ReaperCharlie. I can post huge walls on either with actual quotes, but general summaries of my reasons for suspecting both:

1) xvart's jump onto RC (who should have been one of his allies against us, his top suspect) looked opportunistic as hell. I think him doubling up a ward is a nulltell, even though ReaperCharlie/El Goosuki/Baby Spice are raving about him being confirmed scum for it, but something seems fishy about his claiming not to have noticed all the discussion on warding. I also thought some of his points against Furc and me throughout the game felt false (admittedly, I think OMGUS has somewhat coloured my opinions of VP Baltar, xvart, and Trilobite this game, although they'd rung bells before they attacked us).

xvart, I'd like an answer. What exactly makes you think that Furcolow is significantly more likely to go murderer than anyone else? Do you deny that there was a lot of discussion on the merits of ward claiming before your first post (in fact, it was a huge bulk of the first page)? Also, do you still suspect Furcolow?

2) My read on Magna has been a rollercoaster this game. (I oscillate every couple of days in the QT between "OMG MAGNA IS SO TOWN" and "LYNCH THAT SCUMMY BASTARD!") But although Furc's point about Magna's post percentage was ridiculous, I've REALLY hated how Magna has been playing recently. I see what VV is trying to say about Magna's meta, even though he can't out-debate Magna. This is something that would probably best be illustrated by a huge list of quotes, but lately, Magna's attacks are feeling close to his scum play (taking actions out of context and spinning them as "textbook" scumtells, hammering people to death over minutiae, making passive-aggressive comments that seem like attempts to discredit people or score easy digs rather than genuinely shine a light on scummy behaviour). And this is more circumstantial, but some of his interaction with Fate feels like he's trying to get him on his good side.

Maybe it's just because I think virtually everyone he's attacked all game (Furcolow, Seacore, Furpants, VasudeVa, ReaperCharlie to a lesser extent) is town. But I've learned my lesson from the last time he was scum. If I think Magna is spewing crap, don't give him the benefit of the doubt just because he's acting confident in the crap he's spewing.

Magna, do you believe that VasudeVa is scum? You seem to be devoting a lot of effort to making him look bad and calling him an idiot for his play in other games. But do you believe he's scum, or misguided?

========================================================
Would anyone like me to make a case on kunkstar? I'd written something up on him a while back because I hated his stances on Furcolow all game, as well as his sheeping of xvart's idea to waste a commune on Furcolow. But then I got distracted, and finally I lost confidence in my suspicions.

I have stuff on Baltar and Trilobite, but I'll save it for another post.

I'm torn on Feysal, but I'm not crazy about his stance on RC. This in particular I hated:

I get what you mean. In my first game ever, a player decided to fake a post restriction, which he used as an excuse to insult everyone in his posts. I ended up leading the wagon on him, and he turned out to be the town bus driver. But, he was turning the game into a flame war, so I've never regretted that mislynch.

Not that I would imply the situation with ReaperCharlie was anywhere close, just that I understand why you might want him out.

It felt like he was egging me on. It's not the first time I've noticed Feysal subtly buddying up to people/defending them from weak points.

Yes, this is good enough for me. Maybe you are flailing scum, maybe just a frustrated townie, RC, but casting suspicions at those voting you and dismissing their concerns as invalid is not the right way to defend yourself.

Hey, Magna, why did you comment on Furpants_Tom's waffling over RC, but not Feysal's? What do you think of Feysal? Of kunkstar, too, while I'm at it?

I'll probably move my vote to either xvart or Magna after some discussion with Faraday, since I don't think another wagon is viable. But in the meantime...I'd like to try something.

Since Bowser has replaced out, there's no point leaving my vote on him. Read manho's ISO. Go on. Read it.

VOTE: manho

I'm not optimistic that this will succeed, but last minute lurker wagon, go go go!

====================================
Also, on the off-chance we're killed by the ritual (as opposed to murdered) tonight, might as well come out with someone.

There is a very, very high chance that at least one of the cultists is in {MagnaofIllusion, xvart, VP Baltar, Seacore, El Goosuki}. Otherwise, Faraday and I aren't the most likely Craft Fetish targets.

Oddly, I'm more suspicious of the first three, even though the latter two have been far sloppier in their play.

I might just be too egotistical in this opinion, and neglecting the people who've had experience with Faraday. So this isn't 100% conclusive.

But it's interesting that EVERY SINGLE person who was involved in ACOK Mafia heard noise (although in two cases, they were warded).

I was immediately suspicious of Magna when I heard noise, because I get the feeling that he considers me more of a threat than, say, VP does (who I suspect thinks I'm a stark raving lunatic). But in a few days, if most of the people in that category flip town, this might be a sign that one of the survivors is scum.

[Wraith]

@Benmage: So, why are you entering tomorrow as confirmed town? Because you're murdering Fate?

[Fate]

K not enough time to post the case before work, but I'll be back tonight.

Sneak-preview:
A confirmed townie? A thorn in the cult's side? [i[A suicidal one who can be quicklynched by daytalking cult??[/i]

This notion is insane.

Fear will be destroyed tonight. Sanity will regain its place on top of the world, and-The voice of Reason, will be its deliverer.

Stay tuned.

[Lost Butterfly]

*************** In case RC is lynched before I can catch-up, I just wanna say the most protown move for someone not sure what to do tonight would be to ward me.

You have nerve. You really have fucking nerve.

Benmage, I want you to post this, in big bold letters.

I, Benmage, solemnly swear that I will not murder Fate tonight. Doing so when I'm not even in danger of a lynch just to "confirm myself" and when Fate is almost guaranteed to be nightkilled eventually if you just leave him alone would be the utmost stupidity. And since I think I'm a genius and better at Mafia than everyone, I would NEVER do something that stupid. Or else Mina will murder me...either in this game (using the weak justification that she was TOTALLY sure I'd go murderer, and also, she wanted to confirm herself, HONEST!), or

outside

the game.

Everyone and their mothers thinks that Fate is obvtown. I've got a TEN times better idea than claiming to nobly go through with the kill for the sake of confirming yourself. Why don't you treat the Fate stalk as a sunken cost, and then confirm yourself by stalking someone who's actually

scummy

tonight? What, you can't wait a whole extra day N2 to confirm yourself?

It would also show that you're serious about not wanting to go murderer, because you're increasing the number of nights it would take you to reach the three-murders win condition.

Also, do you suspect Magna? What's your point that scum post less? I mean...it's pretty obvious that Furcolow's statistics were not the most scientific. I actually think Magna defended himself well against it. You're latching onto the weakest part of the case against Magna.

[Benmage]

Wraith, yes.

[Benmage]

Let me ask you this butterfly, do you think fate chose occult books last night?

What do you think of fate trying to lynch me?

[Benmage]

Let me also ask you this Mina. Do you think I have the capacity as town to be a good scum hunter?

[Benmage]

and when Fate is almost guaranteed to be nightkilled eventually

?

And since I think I'm a genius and better at Mafia than everyone, I would NEVER do something that stupid.

I prefer my opinion over anyone elses, yes. But there are Plenty of other players whose game abilities I respect.

Or else Mina will murder me...either in this game (using the weak justification that she was TOTALLY sure I'd go murderer, and also, she wanted to confirm herself, HONEST!),

If you really feel worried about this, and other means haven't confirmed me by D4 feel free to kill me N4.

or

outside

the game.

I hope this is just some weak AtE Mina. Cause I kinda like you. As long as you continue to shape into a good mafia player. Doing something like that would be pretty lame.

[Benmage]

Since Bowser has replaced out, there's no point leaving my vote on him. Read manho's ISO. Go on. Read it.

VOTE: manho

I'm not optimistic that this will succeed, but last minute lurker wagon, go go go!

You can be better than this. Did you read wingless, who manho replaced. Forensic tools. The replace out read town to me.

This slot will not be lynched today.

[Lost Butterfly]

I don't see much scum motivation in taking the occult book (

fake

-claiming it, maybe).

I think Fate is almost certainly going to be nightkilled eventually because he's a very active and vocal leader and everyone thinks he's town. Scum usually don't let those players survive to LYLO.

I don't really think you're scum (although I suspect you more than I do Fate), and this wagon on you seems like one of Fate's more...um, whimsical ideas, but I can see town reasons behind it. I'm waiting on Fate to explain himself.

Benmage, I do think you can be a good scumhunter. But this game, you haven't been showing it. It seems as thought either you're completely and irrationally tunnel-visioned, or as though you just want Fate out of the game and are twisting the facts so that you can justify yourself to us. Or scum, of course.

In fact, Benmage, who ARE your suspects right now? I'm not even sure anymore.

Oh, and I'm still waiting on your posting that statement above in bold. As well as your answering my question about Magna. All your rhetorical questions aren't changing that you haven't disputed my arguments for why you shouldn't go through with this.

Seriously, JUST STALK SOMEONE ELSE TONIGHT if you want to confirm yourself. It's win-win.

I hope this is just some weak AtE Mina. Cause I kinda like you. As long as you continue to shape into a good mafia player. Doing something like that would be pretty lame.

How do you know I'm not Faraday, being uncharacteristically verbose and rambling?

Thanks...but wait. You ACTUALLY thought that I was going to literally look up your address, fly over to wherever it is you live, and shoot you in the head? As in, I meant that as an entirely serious threat?

Obviously, I was being melodramatic. It doesn't change the fact that I WILL BE LIVID IF YOU KILL FATE TONIGHT. FOAMING AT THE MOUTH. HEADS WILL ROLL (METAPHORICALLY). So if you like me, DON'T DO IT!

Won't have time for commenting on Baltar and Trilobite tonight. Dammit.

[Lost Butterfly]

Since Bowser has replaced out, there's no point leaving my vote on him. Read manho's ISO. Go on. Read it.

VOTE: manho

I'm not optimistic that this will succeed, but last minute lurker wagon, go go go!

You can be better than this. Did you read wingless, who manho replaced. Forensic tools. The replace out read town to me.

This slot will not be lynched today.

Shh, you're not supposed to TELL him that! I'm TRYING to accomplish something, here.

I did read Wingless, and saw his replace out as null (scum and town can be overwhelmed by the content--in my experience, more so the former). Good point that his spontaneous Forensic Tools claim is a slight towntell from a weaker/n00bish player (although it might have been faked). Hmm....

But why do you think Fate claiming Occult Books is scummier than Wingless claiming Forensic Tools.

[xvart]

I'm actually in agreement with DGB that his frustration looks very townish. I can give quotes to show what I mean if someone wants.

DGB said that RC looks townie due to his frustration? Where? In your Cult QT???

I'll get to the rest of the stuff later. About to go the the Roger Waters The Wall concert.

xvart.

[Benmage]

I think occult books are a poor choice for first move. I do think it'd be an easy thing for scum to fakeclaim.

I don't have your glorious town read on Fate. I don't think Fate is a strong town voice. Like I said, read CEB. He buddies scum to no end, and makes overly aggressive tunneling attacks on town players debilitating their ability to properly scum hunt. And I'm talking about myself. He is a benmage handicap. His death = benmage scumhunting success.

I fell many pgs behind, so i don't even know who my scum suspects are.

But they use to include: baby Spice, MoI, SpyreX, Triglav, Seacore, I think yourself, and of course Fate. But At this point I don't know how accurate that is (I may even be forgetting some people, cause this is off of old memory)

What question did I miss on magna?

I am not complying with your contract... is that not obvious?

[Benmage]

And yes I haven't been up to par yet in this game. But my being alive in ongoing games is now down to 2(this one included). So i can give it substantial more time. And like a aCoK I can awake the dragon. Sometimes during a night phase if I am behind in a game I won't bother catching up in case I am NK'd. But since I hard no noise last night I can really take full advantage of tonight. That is also why a ward on me tonight would be a badass town move for people to do, so that I can be the town beacon. A thorn in the cults side.

[Benmage]

Oh and I'm not signing up for anymore games until I either die in this one or it ends. Because this game requires a lot.

[Lost Butterfly]

xvart, um...you realize that we wouldn't be discussing reads in a Cult QT anyway, right? Because we'd already know that ReaperCharlie is town?

But even leaving that aside, look at all these statements:

RC is totally 100% pure town.

ReaperCharlie is town. I insist.

[quote="El Goosuki (albeit the Elli head)]
I never played with him before...
And comments like that wristing thing just now look so town >.>[/quote]

RC is total town.

This is a scum-driven wagon.

Unless you're trying to argue that we're communicating outside the thread because she didn't use the word "frustration" when calling frustrated comments by RC townish, please read the thread before trying to score an easy point.

[Benmage]

Oh right spam. I didn't think you meant outside this game as in IRL, but rather future games.