Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Lost Butterfly]

One last post, and then I'm off for the night. Benmage, I was referring to this question:

Also, do you suspect Magna? What's your point that scum post less? I mean...it's pretty obvious that Furcolow's statistics were not the most scientific. I actually think Magna defended himself well against it. You're latching onto the weakest part of the case against Magna.

Do I really have to write a defence of Fate showing why he looks obviously town? But regardless of what you think of Fate's playstyle, Fate will almost certainly be nightkilled before long. Just suck it up and wait until then to be the very best Benmage you can be.

I'm also having trouble keeping up with this game and getting good reads, but I personally think your plan is irrational and counterproductive. So does everyone else in this game. If you choose to stubbornly go through with it even though it will result in more insanities and blood spread around and a net loss for the town, just because you PERSONALLY are not fond of Fate, then I would suggest to the town that at least one person uses a resurrection kit on Fate tonight, so as to deter you.

What about my point that people will suspect you of going murderer if you kill Fate tonight? That completely negates your confirmation plan. So it's better to wait at least one night before killing, as a show of good faith.

[Benmage]

What about my point that people will suspect you of going murderer if you kill Fate tonight? That completely negates your confirmation plan. So it's better to wait at least one night before killing, as a show of good faith.

Negative, that is added insanities. And a whole Slew of wifom about why I didnt kill Fate, because just since you don't want it doesn't negate that there are others saying I have to go through with it.

And I didn't read the case on Magna by Furc. I only noticed a glarring misstatement by Magna. Which does make me very suspicious of Magna. Because that is a huge tell imo. Scum

most of the fuckingtime

Post less. Period.

[Benmage]

Also there will be other means I believe to follow my every move to be sure I don't go down the murderer path. I did tell everyone to keep a magnifying glass on me. And they should.

That said, if I am lynched D4 out of fear, so be it. In the meantime I'll nail a lot of cult. So ward me tonight.

[Benmage]

I’m probably going to be out now for Halloween festivities….here’s some of that catch-up post(s) I was talking about…I leave on top of pg 41, so that’s still like 14-15 pg for me to rego though. Anywhose:

This post is part of my chronological catchup from pg 36ish to 55ish….if I reask things that have been answered, my apologies, although restating things never hurts.

I don't want more walls of rubbish, I'd rather you thought up a decent question you wanted Seacore, Bowser, or anyone else to answer, and then asked it. Succinctly.

But a quick day is a scum day, I don't fancy snipping a week off because you've gotten jack of the posting habits of the rude and voluble denizens of WIFOM alley.

There's been nothing quick about this day. A cluttered thread of explosion makes concentration, and re-analyzing both difficult and time consuming.

I attacked Benmage for acting anti-town. I don't think anybody can argue against the fact that basing a N0 action on a personal grudge is anti town. Deeper into my Benmage case was my dislike that many people seemed willing to give him one of the three murders necessary to win as murderer, for free.

Since then, people have mentioned that Benmage can be thoroughly examined and attacked in later Days, and this satisfies me

.

How did you not draw this conclusion yourself?

Is this the person who wanted to lynch Benmage because if nothing else he was anti-Town and what better lynch could you expect Day 1?

Sorry, I missed this in the first read.

Yes. I wanted to lynch Benmage because at worst he was someone planning to go Murderer and at very best he was anti-town. (Throw in a vague chance he was cult, but I found that less likely)

I think at best we have a confirmed town/skilled scum-hunter.

No, investigator isn't enough. And thats what you seem to not be understanding. Investigators include some potential murderers.

If we lynched somebody today and they flipped Investigator with 1 insanity point then I would say "Yay, we caught ourselves a potential murderer"

Because nobody should have laundered, nobody has claimed cowered and unless I've missed it,

nobody but Benmage has claimed stalk.

Only an investigator with 0 insanity points should be considered a mislynch. Today anway, this obviously needs recalculation as the days proceed and insanity points become a little harder to dodge.

Excatly! Because noone in their right mind wanting to go murder would say. "HEY EVERYBODY" Look at ME!!!! God Seacore....I think you're better than this .

i also read that wards would cause you to hear noise, but percy changed the rule on me
furthermore, i really thought my ward had gone down alphabetically at one point


how is this not convincing to you, seacore?
if you want to HELP the town, find some scum

Well I'm trying to do that, but currently I'm having to defend myself against, what I feel were, responses to two causes of concern, you and Benmage.

Anyone read this as Danakillsu from aCoK...Was wholly concerned with defending themself....until called out on it.

Well if you FLIP Investigator no one's going to go 'HERP DERP HE MIGHT BE A MURDERER'. Before they go Psycho, Murderers can be reformed or even just be misguided Townies who eant to stay Investigator. And besides, what if someone wanted to go Murderer and took Denial last Night HUH Mister wiseguy? In conclusion, your premise is full of holes.

Sorry, but I'm going after Cult until we actually get people Murdering. Benmage doesn't count because claimed one-time Murdering Investigators make it almost impossible for them to win or do damage as Murderers if the Town doesn't fall over dead drunk.

Though you

can

[ only get an Insanity from Ward if you Ward someone who's dead, so that happens to be inapplicable.

Goddamn mesa like plum. (Maybe cause she apparently has the logical aptitude greater than that of an infant…whereas others clearly don’t)

I know I said the Furcolow/Benmage/Fate situation was a litmus test of intelligence/innocence...but I'd bet my life that at least three-four scum were smart enough to keep their hands far away. And I wouldn't be all that surprised if Trilobite was one of those scumbags.

Word. This is something which should be looked into later.

I hate how quickly the Seacore wagon has grown. After ISO-reading him, I feel much better about him. I'm not sure if this is enough to satisfy Plum, since this is mostly gut, but he was basically exactly the same as this (earnest, not always the sharpest in his reasoning, saying sloppy stuff that sounds scummy like "Of course, he could be saying this because he has a guilty investigation on me...but he doesn't!") in A Game of Thrones Mafia (and according to Faraday, as in PYP). Seriously, what exactly is the case on him, aside from voting Furcolow (which several other players did)? His playstyle? His most recent defence post also feels sincere. That said, I agree with Furcolow that actual suspects from Seacore would be nice.

(Yes, I know, Furc will now go, "HAHAHAHA, I KNEW YOU GUYS ARE SCUMBUDDIES!" I really couldn't care less.)

I now have a slight town read on AurorusVox after ISO reading him. His big oopsies seem to be that he wasn't willing to instantly clear Furcolow, being wishy-washy on Benmage, and perhaps trying to take too much credit for clearing Furc. Initially, Faraday and I thought SpyreX's case was decent. But since then, I think he's justified his opinions well and been reasonably protown. And if you want me to be honest, I'm pretty sure that people wouldn't have jumped on AV so blindly had it not been the almighty

SpyreX

who'd voted for him.

SpyreX: I'd like to know why you've

only

attacked AurorusVox, but not people whose interactions concerning the Furc/Ben/Fate clusterfuck have been worse IMO (for example, MagnaofIllusion, xvart--other than a throwaway sentence--kunkstar, Baby Spice, rewq, us when Lost Butterfly had voted Furcolow).

Mina, you need some more gut in that soul of yours. Remember what I said about orators. Sophists....anyone worth a damn can sound convincing enough to appear town. Give greater credence to that initial gut read.

Okay, admitidly I totally forgot about denial, although lets face it, that would not be a good insanity for a potential murderer to pick.

Explain.

But the rest of your argument has already been told to me and has convinced me previously, that's why I'm not going after Benmage anymore.

Again, I am surprised this easy explanation was needed to be explained to you.

SSBF 491 - You hate Benmage's play (agree) and find the vendetta scummy (disagree).
You were in that fiasco of an /in-vitational where Benmage (town) et al were trying to policy lynch Fate D1.
Why do you not take this (and the fact that if cult Benmage could never follow up on his tunneling) into account?
Why does Fate's reaction resemble his town reaction there and Benmage's not?

This.

Since then, people have mentioned that Benmage can be thoroughly examined and attacked in later Days, and this satisfies me.

^A lie. This was mentioned pretty much from the very start, before Benmage claimed stalk. Can you explain this?

Nice.

Since then, people have mentioned that Benmage can be thoroughly examined and attacked in later Days, and this satisfies me.

^A lie. This was mentioned pretty much from the very start, before Benmage claimed stalk. Can you explain this?

Not a lie. I saw a lot of anti-town behaviour and attacked. I was very worried with people who were willing to give Benmage a free pass on his (potentially) first of three murders, simply because he announced that he did it for a non PTW reason.

I was later convinced the level of scrutiny Benmage was under would be sufficient protection.

Guys we need to lynch someone, we're at 39 pages. I don't like the Seacore wagon.

I'll be pleased to lynch anyone else FAST and with little discussion.

-DGB

Looks like this plea went unheard.

It occured to me that perhaps Ben didn't stalk Fate, but someone else. The whole way he claimed that he stalked Fate struck me as weird, and after the signup thread I just assumed that he would and I suspect half of the town did. But what if he stalked someone else and did the claim thing partly to tweak Fate and partly to set him up. "What do you mean you didn't hear noise, you must have Ben stalked you you fake claiming scum!" Then when Fate claimed to hear noise we've just taken it as a given that Fate was Ben's target.
But Ben's flip flopping on killing Fte/not killing Fate and the whole lynch Fate thing makes me wonder if he really did stalk Fate.

*********************OMFG!!!!! Is this a real post? Does someone actually think this makes sense??? How is Baby Spice not hung yet??? Okay let me try and grasp what is being said.

1. So I stalk someone else (I guess I'm going for the hard WC murderer? Right?) But I claim to have stalked Fate....because I like additional scrutiny? And I want the near impossible WC to be harder?? OKAYYY.....
2. I claim noise on Fate prior to Fate claiming.
2a. Fate confirms this (lucky me right?)
2b. Fate denies this. Fate gets called out as lying scum (obviosuly not me) And Fate being the weak-willed person he is chooses to lie to everyone and say he did hear noise to save his own neck(WOW...lol )

tl/dr maybe Benmage stalked someone other than Fate.

If Fate v. Benmage is town on town and we rez Benmage tonight so he cannot be killed by scum

From memory Ben didn't report hearing noise so he can't be the target of an NK N1.

No, We ward Benmage tonight. Good plan rewq.

The point of all this? Seacore's push on furc was opportunistic. The fact you can't see that could be because you know him out side of MS, because I have been burned like that before. That or you are his buddy. But the fact is, Seacore's hands are very dirty when it comes to furc. He also hasn't placed another vote since that I have seen. How can he not have another suspect at this point even just to bandwagon?

Hesitant scum? I think so.

I liked this post 972.

I was responding both to her concerns and to her confusion between "Investigator" (which is a role) and "Town" (which is a choice of alignment).

Damn, I knew I'd seen someone say that. It sort of explains what I was trying to say about Benmage. Investigator (Role) but not town (Alignment).

cult have to focus on murderers obviously to appear "(protown)" hahahaha

QFT

The time warp is screwy.

[Benmage]

V/LA until Monday

[Wraith]

Wraith, yes.

Unvote Vote: Benmage

The "plan" is stupid and you're anti-town. Let's nip a murderer in the bud.

[Benmage]

Wraith, yes.

Unvote Vote: Benmage

The "plan" is stupid and you're anti-town. Let's nip a murderer in the bud.

You've skimmed this game, and you haven't read anything I've said.

[Furpants_Tom]

Not to defend your claims of buddying; and I'm hesitant to say anything in defense of RC, but the record should show that I don't really see these comments as buddying. RC and I have been in a couple of games where similar lists have been made, so that accounts for the banter back and forth regarding the lists, color coding, sexy, etc.

On its own, I agree. As part of the pattern, it's another red flag:

Plenty of these are fairly innocuous on their own. It's more the frequency and consistency of his "I agree, you're great" posts that I think is the issue. For example, it's fine to complement xvart on posting his first list; but why is he the only player to positively comment on it twice?

What are your thoughts on Fate? Have you explicitly stated them somewhere?

Not in any great detail. In response to Fate, I wrote:

I think you're more likely town than scum.

And I've seen nothing to change my mind on that. He's seesawed back to aggressive self-defence; which seems about right for a townie explicitly targetted for death N1. I think scum, being able to guarantee a res, would be more likely to swing back to a more fatalistic mode, or concentrate more on the implications of them surviving the night.

[Wraith]

Wraith, yes.

Unvote Vote: Benmage

The "plan" is stupid and you're anti-town. Let's nip a murderer in the bud.

You've skimmed this game, and you haven't read anything I've said.

Skimmed some parts, yes, but I did read the whole back-and-forth between you and Benmage. You attempted to lynch him because of meta, and that meta was you lying about a cop result in an attempt to lynch Fate, who was actually town, and that your wanting to kill him is based entirely upon your (wrong) point of view during one game, and you can't get over a personal vendetta so you're just going to spite a probable townie. Therefore, you are spiting the town.

[xvart]

My pre-concert plans fell through some unexpected time.

1) xvart's jump onto RC (who should have been one of his allies against us, his top suspect) looked opportunistic as hell. I think him doubling up a ward is a nulltell, even though ReaperCharlie/El Goosuki/Baby Spice are raving about him being confirmed scum for it, but something seems fishy about his claiming not to have noticed all the discussion on warding. I also thought some of his points against Furc and me throughout the game felt false (admittedly, I think OMGUS has somewhat coloured my opinions of VP Baltar, xvart, and Trilobite this game, although they'd rung bells before they attacked us).

xvart, I'd like an answer. What exactly makes you think that Furcolow is significantly more likely to go murderer than anyone else? Do you deny that there was a lot of discussion on the merits of ward claiming before your first post (in fact, it was a huge bulk of the first page)? Also, do you still suspect Furcolow?

Mainly, I don't believe that Percy would not confirm a target choice; I think he is lying about his N0 action; and he is clearly not operating with the town's best interest in mind, rather going alone with his own agenda with no explanation (i.e. not Grave Robbing and then wanting to Grave Rob). Plus, anyone who posts in basically every single post that they are confirmed town is either an ego maniac that thinks they are sooooo cool that due to a mod error supposedly confirming him or just wants to push it for all the town cred it is worth. Saying "I'm confirmed town, so everyone should do what I say" does not instill town thoughts in my mind (although this point might be argued depending on the player, but in this case it stands). There was something else that I just blanked on... I'll post it when I remember.

I don't deny it now that I look back on the quotes of people saying to claim targets. I can't explain it and have no defense; when asked recently I did not remember any significant discussion about claiming Ward targets, but I can't say that about the time of my first post unless I was not paying attention at all while reading, which wasn't the case (since the thread hadn't exploded).

I'd written something up on him a while back because I hated his stances on Furcolow all game, as well as his sheeping of xvart's idea to waste a commune on Furcolow.

I honestly don't think it is a bad idea; but I'll leave that decision up to the people that actually have Occult Books, since I don't. The only people who are going to have insanities at the time N1 Occult Books resolves are people that:

• Cowered N0 (nobody did);
  Laundered N0 (doubtful anyone did);
  Crafted three fetishes N0;
  Stalked N0;
  Cowered N1 (doubtful anyone would do this); and,
  Laundered without being bloody N1.

If I had Occult Books I would be targetting N1 people I thought to be going the Murderer route since I don't think Cult members would be crafting three Fetishes N0 at the cost of one insanity. The benefit to my suggested plan of Booking Fucolow if someone with an Insanity Count of Zero is that they don't lose their books if they don't find someone more Insane than them and it essentially confirms Furcolow as not wanting to go the Murderer route. Anyone with an Insanity Count of Zero that finds someone more insane than them by Booking tonight has most likely found a Murderer in Training N1; otherwise they found a Cult or a stupid townie. Tonight is basically the only night that we can prove beyond a doubt based on Occult Book results that someone is not operating in the town's best interest.

xvart, um...you realize that we wouldn't be discussing reads in a Cult QT anyway, right? Because we'd already know that ReaperCharlie is town?

But even leaving that aside, look at all these statements:

RC is totally 100% pure town.

ReaperCharlie is town. I insist.

[quote="El Goosuki (albeit the Elli head)]
I never played with him before...
And comments like that wristing thing just now look so town >.>

RC is total town.

This is a scum-driven wagon.

Unless you're trying to argue that we're communicating outside the thread because she didn't use the word "frustration" when calling frustrated comments by RC townish, please read the thread before trying to score an easy point.[/quote]
Because ScumDGB would never say in a Scum QT "LULZ @ REAPER, THE OBV TOWN DUE TO FRUSTRATION." And scum never talk about town people and why they look town to them to either exploit or garner support for some scum initiative?

In addition, your slot has never said the Reaper looked frustrated, so how can you apply that town motivation to him and to DGB's town read? How do you know that DBG isn't just pulling another blue sky read and there is actually some unmentioned and undescribed reasoning behind the town read?

None of DGB's post have given any indication of reasoning behind her RC read; and

the most concerning part is that you applied a motivation behind a read that neither you nor DGB ever said in the thread.

I honestly don't think I have the political clout to get you lynched today, but if there is enough interest the only person I am willing to lynch besides RC is you.

xvart.

[Seacore]

I'm not going to bother responding to Benmage's points against me because they're either:

a) Already been answered by me before
b) Dumb
c) Willfully misinterpreting what I've said
d) some combination of the above.

If people think he's raised good points, feel free to ask the questions again.

[Fate]

AH YES.

I come out with "I have something on Benmage, soon to come" and he gives me two pages MORE of it.

Oh yes.

It is time.

That time.

[Furcolow]

Since Bowser has replaced out, there's no point leaving my vote on him. Read manho's ISO. Go on. Read it.

VOTE: manho

I'm not optimistic that this will succeed, but last minute lurker wagon, go go go!

You can be better than this. Did you read wingless, who manho replaced. Forensic tools. The replace out read town to me.

This slot will not be lynched today.

Shh, you're not supposed to TELL him that! I'm TRYING to accomplish something, here.

I did read Wingless, and saw his replace out as null (scum and town can be overwhelmed by the content--in my experience, more so the former). Good point that his spontaneous Forensic Tools claim is a slight towntell from a weaker/n00bish player (although it might have been faked). Hmm....

But why do you think Fate claiming Occult Books is scummier than Wingless claiming Forensic Tools.

I'll answer this.
Cult can pass fetishes to give insanities. Someone claiming occult books and saying "look, his insanity count is higher than it should be!!" when they have passed them fetish(es) to make it so is a valid scum tactic.

Blood, on the other hand, will damn occult and murderers. It's not any more or less, and is null, but occult books would be the

more common

scum claim.

[Furcolow]

xvart, um...you realize that

we

wouldn't be discussing reads in a Cult QT anyway, right? Because

we'd already know that ReaperCharlie is town

?

But even leaving that aside, look at all these statements:

RC is totally 100% pure town.

ReaperCharlie is town. I insist.

[quote="El Goosuki (albeit the Elli head)]
I never played with him before...
And comments like that wristing thing just now look so town >.>

RC is total town.

This is a scum-driven wagon.

Unless you're trying to argue that we're communicating outside the thread because she didn't use the word "frustration" when calling frustrated comments by RC townish, please read the thread before trying to score an easy point.[/quote]
bolded statement makes you look like scum to me

[Furcolow]

What about my point that people will suspect you of going murderer if you kill Fate tonight? That completely negates your confirmation plan. So it's better to wait at least one night before killing, as a show of good faith.

Negative, that is added insanities. And a whole Slew of wifom about why I didnt kill Fate, because just since you don't want it doesn't negate that there are others saying I have to go through with it.

And I didn't read the case on Magna by Furc. I only noticed a glarring misstatement by Magna. Which does make me very suspicious of Magna. Because that is a huge tell imo. Scum

most of the fuckingtime

Post less. Period.

he REALLY is posting less
the "counters" he provided were from games where he was in a smaller % of the player pool
the scumgame he was at Harry Potter was I believe 16 people, an dhe haqd 2%
the scum game he had like 8% was with like 12 people or less, where he survived to the end, and the post count was WAY lower, so he had to post more often. This game has a huge post count, and is fast paced. HPM was fast paced. His scum game is very very similar to this.

Go read Harry Potter Mafia on his iso
it adds up to me
lets seriously shift this to MoI


@Benmage, lost butterfly badgering you to not confirm your kill is cultist propaganda in my eyes

[Furcolow]

in response to #1509:
xvart, book it
i don't care
stalk elli tonight and see if it works out for you buddy

[Fate]

My fellow investigators!

We are gathered here today, in this rotting crpyt, for some unknown reason. We are surrounded by evil, and the insanity that is present in every human soul has been slowly taking over.

But TODAY! TODAY I GIVE YOU

HOPE.

A way to stop this madness!

And that is, to lynch the cause of such mayhem, the one who started it all:

Benmage, the Cultist!

This rally is inspired by VasuadeVa (of all people) gave us a voice of reason:

We've all been scum at some point right? If you're scum, you kind of have to do two things:
1. Spread bad stuff around for mislynches.
2. Appear Town to not get mislynched.

His case on MoI inspired me! Because, if ever there were a person an offender of these acts, if there were ever a true "poison" to town it is none other than Benmage this game!

What he has done, what he has insanely continued to do, has clearly no other motivation that:

to appear town.

Yes! Who would not agree?

I'm not sure Fate, seems like an insane thing for him to do.

And you think he is not capable of performing such a stunt, such a

gambit

as it were, to appear so obvtown?
For what other than that purpose, appearing town, has he contributed?

Let us take a look:
#1.

He is playing to his meta in order to appear as TownBenmage:

-He pushes for a Fate lynch! Why now, why of all things would he push a Fate lynch, when he has stalked someone? It is because he is playing to his "meta" of hating me! Quite a simple thing to fake

He thought you were cult because you didn't stalk him.

Ah yes, reader, that is fine and good. A good early game reason to vote, I suppose. HOWEVER.

WHEN:

he is confronted with this reasoning, his logical flaws pointed out, the fact that were I cult I would have been 'safer' from a Benmage stalk, and would not be so worried. His response?

His repsonse, ladies and gentlemen?

To ignore. To deflect. To say "Idk Fate's scummeta so thats irrelevant" To say "Fate prob did something else the cult said to do.

He doesn't actually try to figure out my alignment through reasoning! He doesn't try to get a read on me through simple logic of a cult, having buddies, would not be so vunerable to someone who

claimed to want to stalk me in the sign-up thread!!

To say in another word: he is not being geniune. He is not thinking logically.

Maybe that's just him being tunneled and stupid? Maybe he just is a moron?

Yes I thought so at first, it is easy to think such thoughts to explain his behavior. BUT, as the self-proclaimed "excellent skilled scum-hunter master" how could he be so dense of the simplest logical train of thoughts?

And he continues to push my lynch, in the face of all reason. Thinking that "cult will just rez kit him tonite" even though to do so would confirm me as cult or confirm two of us as cult if either flipped, as a successful rez must be claimed.

He seems hell bent on the idea that "you are going to die Fate, and I will be confirmed town." See the motivations once again? See the constant focus on being confirmed town!? He even says:

Suicidal...the oneless vote one.
Cause I am confirming myself town. I have no qualms with this. And I am going to stay investigator. Bam.

I have no experience here... I thought suicidal made it more obvious I'm town not looking to go murder.

He says he took suicidal because he thought it would prove how town he was! Except

only town have to fear being quickhammered due to suicidal, scum do not.

This brings me to point #2:
#2.

"Confirming himself"

is all he cares about, but

what difference will it make?

I ask you citizens, having a confirmed town (if such a kill will go through cleanly, but I think that is not what will happen if Benmageis allowed to win) who is SUICIDAL has what benefit? Let's say he confirms himself. Now what? He won't be NK'd for being "confirmed" because he is suicidal. He will be left around for an instant win at MyLo or LyLo. There is no reason for scum to ever kill him whether he is confirmed or not.
-HOWEVER, I believe that he will not be confirmed by tomorrow. The kill wil be carried through, I (with 7 cult in this game, I'm sure one has past game experience with me and would craft a fetish N0) and the flavor will be "Unspeakable Death" and he will NOT even be confirmed! Then he will remain around as a detriment to town, who is not even confirmed anymore, and will distract from all proper focus and scumhunting until lynched!

But, there is more to why he is cult, much more:
#3

His scum read on me is ingeniune.

Besides those instances I have pointed out in which Benmage has

ignored all reason

and continued to "suspect" me of being cult, there are further contradictions:

Fate, can you do the town a favor and go ahead and perform the action of Ward tonight.

He asks me to do something tonight? As cult? I have pointed this out before, but there is much much more:
NOTICE HOW HE VACILLATES FROM "I'm killing Fate because he's scum" AND "I'm killing Fate because people said its too much WIFOM if I don't (point #2, concerned about his self-town image)"

List (in order of appearance):

It is past the point of no return, but I am going to try and make somewhat amendsfor the towns best interest and hope fate complys

-He says "well Fate's gonna flip town, but I gotta go through with it to confirm myself."

I have town Meta fate not PTw. You can drink all the wine about how shell act as scum. I suggested she's following the cult unit because she can't solo kill me

-Calling me scum again, ignoring logic and reasoning by dismissing OBVGOODPLAY (warding me n0, fetishing Ben) by calling it WIFOM

Me confirming myself as 100% town upon fates death who may or may not flip cult isn't nearly as antitown as you are suggesting.

I have pointed out how it is anti-town, and this subtly suggests that even killing "Fate-town" isn't anti-town, which shows the insincerity of his town read.

Hito, there is too much wine for me to not kill fate. Plus I don't have a town read on her. And it still confirms me.....that said we should move on and focus elsewhere.

Here there is a seeming blend of the two, "well I don't have a town read on him"-despite everyone else's thoughts on my alignment- and "too much wine, I have to do it."

LET'S TAKE A BREAK.

I have two very good questions, that should keep you thinking:
1. Why,

why

hasn't Ben been continuing to harp on me as cult, continue to make a case (make his "meta case stronger") based on my play this game? I have made plenty of posts, surely I have done scummy things that he could point out? And

why not?

after all, if he convinces town of my scumminess than he can get town's approval to follow through with the kill on me, and NOT have to deal with other people rez kitting me.
2.

Why is Ben so sure I'll die?

He doesn't continue a case on me, surely he reads how many people think I'm town and will rez kit me. But he comments on NONE of these plans, only that I must die! And that I WILL die and he WILL be confirmed! He doesn't even take into account that the cult will Rez kit me-A thought he had earlier but dropped (inconsistency!) when he saw how impossible the Fate lynch would be based on his terrible case.

Answers:
1. He does not truly think I am scum. He pops in every once in awhile to "re-affirm" that I am scummy in his eyes, and such justifies going through with his kill.
2. He and his cult buddies will greater ritual me, and tomorrow you will be left with this:
-Dead Fate town.
-Unconfirmed Benmage, who's stance will be "ah well, but I did carry out the murder they are just framing me! Seriously this ploy makes NO SENSE as scum! It makes no sense! why would I why would I why would I i must be town."

That is my prediction if this insanity is allowed to continue. Which is why we are here today.

To stop Benmage from submitting his kill. Via either promising his lynch tomorrow should he not post LB's bolded oath, or lynching him today. I prefer the latter as you can see there is much evidence against him. And there is more:

His play has deteriorated since then. He has lurked, offered no comments other than apparently thinking Seacore is obvscum and furc is VI town (two already well hashed out points by then.)

Wait I'm sorry, we were taking a break from his ISO pointing out the inconsistencies:

However to attempt to be pushing my lynch already when I've been nothing but. Been forthright in my actions is opportunistic scum or poor town play. I basically said here's a huge magnifying glass observe my every move....if I was going for a tough wc there could be a ton better ways to go about this....because like it or not, I'm pretty smart, and pretty decent at these games.

"I'm definitely not murderx10" But what about cult? Ben's play makes perfect sense as cult.

And RC you have to follow furcs idea and convince 28 players for me not to kill fate.

-Unless everyone 100% agrees that he shouldn't, he'll do it. That is not to say that he cares about anyone's town read on me, or whether he rethinks the scenario logically about what is best for town, or anything. Just more pandering to his meta "I am better than you, I will kill Fate because I have deemed it so."

I think I can accept action.... let me ponder this. And despite your overwhelming kindness in how you presented this idea...ill put the emotional aspects aside and examine the underlying logic.

-He THINKS about it? He thinks about a plan from cultFate in order to confirm him? No, what has happened is that his "stalking" of me would never have resulted him in being confirmed anyway, as tomorrow I'll be dead via cult flavor. So he takes a step back and mulls over my "plan." Until all the holes are shone through it.

Lets see...he thinks sea is town and furc is scum....his eloquent delivery has me thinking scum ploy to keep him alive.

Ill still think on it tho.

He still "thinks on it" he still refuses to see the logical hole that I don't need a "ploy" to stay alive via day play, if I had cult buddies at night.

All that said I am still deciding on your alignment.

-now he's still deciding? What did I do to go from obvcult to maybe? And then,

out of nowhere

I go back to being obvcult in his following posts, with

no comment

on any of my posts in between:
---------------

What a town player we have here...Trying to derail the lead wagon so close to the deadline to save his own scummy neck.....hilariousssss

Now I am a scummy player, and the only way I can save myself is to derail a lead wagon onto Benmage. How is this scummy? What does it say of RC's alignment if I'm scum? I saw nowhere that you think we're scumbuddies, nor any reasoning as to why switching a lead wagon is anti-town. You think we should stick to whatever wagon we have close to a deadline regardless?

Let me ask you this butterfly, do you think fate chose occult books last night?

What do you think of fate trying to lynch me?

This is his response to LB's defense of me, and her advocation that I not be killed. He responds to none of her points, but merely casts doubt on my claim.

Let me also ask you this Mina. Do you think I have the capacity as town to be a good scum hunter?

I'm not sure the point of this question, but if he had read Mina's posts he would see that she values

me

, Fate more as a member of town than him.

I don't have your glorious town read on Fate. I don't think Fate is a strong town voice. Like I said, read CEB. He buddies scum to no end, and makes overly aggressive tunneling attacks on town players debilitating their ability to properly scum hunt. And I'm talking about myself. He is a benmage handicap. His death = benmage scumhunting success.

And now he goes back to not having a town read on me. Yet he has done nothing to refute any of the cases made in my defense, done nothing to further the case on me that I am "Scum" just a nice lame stance of "well look at his play in CEB, he sucks. He is a detriment to my ability to scumhunt therefore his death is justified."

Negative, that is added insanities. And a whole Slew of wifom about why I didnt kill Fate, because just since you don't want it doesn't negate that there are others saying I have to go through with it.

?? Now he has gone back to saying that "I have to kill Fate because of what others are saying, doing otherwise makes me look bad." Also apparently one more insanity is more negative than performing anti-town actions.

His scum read of me is not geniune. He has never advanced his case beyond meta and that he hates my play. He has never refuted properly how my moves/vulnerability makes sense as cult.

The "----------" denotes a break in his ISO, to everything after that line showing how much his activity picked up when I threatened my case on him and he panics.

So what does this mean!??

MY FELLOW INVESTIGATORS, IT MEANS THAT TODAY WE BEGIN ANEW ON A PATH TOWARD SANITY AND REASON. TODAY WE FIND A LYNCH BETTER THAN REAPER. TODAY. WE LYNCH.

BENMAGE.

WHY? YOU KNOW WHY!

I am more of an asset to town than him in MANY ways! I have no insanity! I am not suicidal! I will be killed by the cult before long because I am a THREAT second or third to Hitogoroshi! I will not be kept to endgame as fodder because I can be quickhammered! I will not carry out a murder on probtown, just so that I can

MAYBE

be confirmed as town if all the night actions fall in place correctly! I will not be kept to midgame because my reads are bad and my night action choices are worse!

I. AM. REASON.

Benmage is insanity! He is suicidal! He may not be confirmed tomorrow! His stances are inconsistent and reek of knowing who is town and who is not! His laziness at finding cult because his gambit should mean he doesn't have to try is obvious!

GET OUT THERE BEFORE NOV 2. VOTE FATE FOR PRESIDENT OF THIS TOWN. I WILL LEAD US TO A NEW DAWN OF SANITY. VOTE BENMAGE FOR DEATH. HE IS POISON, POISON TO OUR MINDS.

VOTE: BENMAGE

[Fate]

I CALL ON YOU, NAYSAYERS:

EL GOOSUKI! You have called Reaper Obvtown! You have been fooled by Ben's "town" gambit! Look beyond your fears and see he is the answer to your counter-Reaper wagon!

LOST BUTTERFLY! You said you thought Reaper was town, right? I offer you another choice!

FURCOLOW! You believe Reaper is somewhat town I think? MoI is not a viable wagon, he has contributed much and his alignment will be discovered later on, for sure.

WICKEDJESTER! You said you had other reads (which I would like to hear) that deserve a vote more than RC, Benmage should certainly be one of them if you read my case!

SPYREX! NEED I SAY MORE SPYREX?

PLUM! You are still voting Seacore when you promised to not focus on him anymore, you scummy whore!

BABY SPICE! Your vote is on xvart for god knows why! Benmage needs death if not Reaper!

VASUADE! Ben is the real poison! Look into your heart!

HITOROGOSHI! As one pro-town force to another, let us band together and STRIKE! down the evil that is bad play (which is also scummy!)

TRILOBITE! Your vote is still on Seacore for god knows why, I offer you, BENSCUM!


Is that 15 names? Hopefully it is. If its not, I'm sure wagonners from the Reaper wagon will be coaxed over once we are going strong.

ITS A R

EVOL

UTION BABY!

[Fate]

(and what's more, ReaperCharlie being the first to advocate the Benmage lynch in order to save me will be ACTUALLY confirmed town once BenCult flips. Thus taking care of two of the main wagons in one day)

[Wraith]

While I don't agree with all of your logic (I'm not quite convinced this is all a giant gambit by scumBenmage) I do agree on many parts of it, notably the crappiness of Benmage's "case" against you, his implacable urge to murder you, and his general bad play so far. Which is exactly why I'm keeping my vote on him.

[Fate]

Your vote's already on him?

How could I have missed that!

<3 Thank you with all my heart Wraith. This campaign would be meaningless without you, the bread and butter, the faithful and reasonable followers.

[Baby Spice]

he REALLY is posting less

You do realise Furc that yourself, Fate, and Benmage have made about a third of the posts in the game right?
You do understand that spamming like that makes all of the other players post counts seem low right?
Are you willing to redo your little arguement if you remove those top three posters and recalculate?

[Fate]

Baby Spice, your unwillingness to take a stance on a very key issue that has come up greatly dismays me.

Must I remove that tentative town read I had on you earlier due to genuine posting?

I may need to. A sad day this is, that you will not comment on my case or move your vote from.... xvart or ask why,

[totallynotmafia]

If BM is cult then we'll lynch him tomorrow after he fails to make an attempted murder on you. We're not lynching him today.

[Fate]

The flaw with that plan is that it has me-Fate-dead, because it won't fail (due to cult Greater Ritual)

And without me, I do not trust the town to overcome their "but his Fate-stalk claim was so reckless and crazy it had to be town!" inhibitions, while the cult continue to push that angle slowly and manipulate the town from the shadows.

This is my calling. I have to see this lynch through while I'm alive.

Surely you can sympathize with my point of view right now.