The Return to Liten (Game Over)

[Untrod Tripod]

Why are people still voting Bowser again?

He did claim that claiming at L-1 was scummy plus other stuff I just mentioned. I don't disagree with the SO wagon as presented by Slaxx, but previous to that I didn't see it at all and since then I don't see it as dramatically superior to the Bowser/Tripod one.

apparently I need to reread more carefully before I make blanket statements like that >_>

Here's my issue with it: Data made hardly any posts to defend himself before he claimed. He was kind of a dick about me and MoI voting for him, then said he wasn't too interested in the game, then threw his hands up in the air and claimed vig. Claiming vig on D1 is really stupid. He had other options that didn't involve neutralizing a lot of his power as a vig (if he is, in fact, vig). I find it scummy that he didn't do more to protect his PR before he claimed. Also "I was trying to be a little scummy" is a really piss-poor defense for being scummy. I am, however, giving up on trying to convince you of anything because you've already decided what my alignment is without actually knowing. Way to voice your "support" for the SO wagon without actually getting on it, by the way. I do enjoy watching a good scumbus.

[Untrod Tripod]

EBWOP

apparently I need to reread more carefully before I make blanket statements like that. I somehow missed the fact that he was at L-1 >_>

[Thor665]

Bowser/Tripod case As I recall I got on it for sheeping reasons, but if not probably I pointed out whtever my biggest excitment of it was at that time.

How should my disagreement/agreement with a case not have bearing with whether or not I'm voting for someone?

[Thor665]

I am, however, giving up on trying to convince you of anything because you've already decided what my alignment is without actually knowing.

Yeah, because SCUM wouldn't know your alingment?
Thanks for calling me town.

[Thor665]

^^^
Yo, Furry, there's my case now.

[Furry]

I think I may need to sleep and sober on this with SO and UT making wierd statements, they are both easy enough to come up with reasons town says it (wants to make sure "I was RBed" is not an option and thinks thor is town respectively). Easier to come up with scum slip reasoning though. Ick.

I still think SO is the better lynch though, partially due to emotinal (seething hate) of CSL part of Bowser causing me to question my motivation of the read in addition to seeing how bad the wagon on Bowser during the whole "lurking" part of that wagon happened.

[Thor665]

It's not just that he called me town, but that he called me town and bussing scum in the exact same post. That said - I agree you should sober up, I've yet to see anyone scumhunt well while drunk (though I actually prefer to have people write up cases while drunk, just not vote)

[ThAdmiral]

Bus, distance, same thing to me but no, no I was not bussing him. What I meant was...MOI had asked me what possible motives mafia could have for early distancing...if Thor and Nik were both scum and Thor used inside info say he had a "strong town read" Nik may have decided it may be best to distance 'cause what if Thor were to be vigged and flipped scum? Its a very likely possibility that there would be some unwanted attention on Nik.

I don't think this answers the question. You do realize "bus" is when scum votes another scum, right?

@Thad - Do something very off the wall and noticeable, change your method the second night. Do not to ray gun, that would fit with spacey-flavor too much. Do something like "fed to /eaten by the local wildlife" if you can.

I'll try but if I can't do "eaten by local wildlife" I'll do "dropped off a cliff" and if I can't do that I'll do ray gun.

Why are people still voting Bowser again?

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

Thats why.

unvote
vote SO

Spy, Slaxx, MoI, Nik, Thad... lets go.

Um, alright.

vote: SO

[Square Obscure]

^LOL. I think that's the most opportunistic vote I've ever seen.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome ThAdmiral …

First things first – with the deadline extension UNVOTE: Bowser / Untrod.

@Admiral

– When you have your confirmed flavor please post it ASAP.

As for your N1 targets I am going to suggest the following Tiers

Tier 1 – Scumtastic Players (IMO) – SquareOb or Nero (assuming they are not lynched)

Tier 2 – Lurkers / Active Lurkers –

ApCakes – Complete lurker. Has provided NOTHING to the discussion.
Feysal – After some serious theoretical discussion has disappeared into the ether, not weighing in on any of the issues at hand.
Slaxx – Reads as very much active lurking to me. No significant content coming from him but lots of posts.

Yeah, but I'm just kind of uneasy at the attempt to start another wagon this late in the game day for something you don't feel is more of a screaming tell. Thoughts?

I’m not a believer in voting for a compromise candidate you don’t feel is scummy until the last possible minute. And I don’t find the Bowswer / Untrod slot nearly as scummy as either SquareOb or Nero, recent posts notwithstanding. I’d rather have my votes clearly demonstrating my position on players I think are scum.

Bus, distance, same thing to me but no, no I was not bussing him. What I meant was...MOI had asked me what possible motives mafia could have for early distancing...if Thor and Nik were both scum and Thor used inside info say he had a "strong town read" Nik may have decided it may be best to distance 'cause what if Thor were to be vigged and flipped scum? Its a very likely possibility that there would be some unwanted attention on Nik.

What doesn’t sit well with me about this is the fact that Nik never voted for Thor at all. He expressed suspicion based on Thor’s read but never took it farther. So I don’t see that as bussing / distancing.

And the point about Thor flipping scum making Nik look bad is exactly what Thor would be trying to accomplish if he is scum buddying Town Nik. Since you’ve oscillated back and forth between your theories (Thor bussing versus buddying) I don’t think you would be so strongly considering the last sentence you posted.

I’m not sold.

So I'm looking at the vote count. Specifically, the Bowser wagon.

I don't like the reason for the wagon.

I don't like the people on the wagon.

I don't like the order people are on the wagon.

Expound on your 'don’t likes'. Please.

Should I claim?

What in the hell sort of reaction is this? Why so eager to claim when no-one has suggested you be a vig target or even really voted for you?

Meanwhile, Nik is trying to shamelessly keep my wagon going for no real reason and Square is all to happy to jog sweatily along behind it. I think I'd rather vote for Square now. VOTE: Square.

Do you feel that Nik is pushing your wagon without reasons and Square is sheeping. Is there any other reason why you voted Square? Or is it simply survivalist as he’s a viable alternate wagon to you?

He most definitely should. It allows for claims, prevents town PRs from wasting their actions (since he should be targetting suspicious people) and gives him less room to manoeuvre.

I see what you are saying but I disagree to some degree. Locking Admiral into a single target before night gives scum solid information by which to make decisions. Keeping them in the dark about Admiral’s target is more likely to give Town a net benefit in night actions. If claiming targets is required by enough players I would suggest Admiral listing 2-4 targets he’s considering.

Guys, what are we going to do about ThAdmiral tomorrow? And ThAdmiral, who do you plan on killing tonight?

@ThAdmiral: Question for you: Are you a regular vig or a strongman vig?

These two quotes reconfirm my earlier suspicions about Square.

1. Admiral’s position tomorrow will be assessed based on the outcome of night. Why are you trying to line up action by Town against him when we can have confirmation of his ability (but not necessarily alignment) tonight?
2. Target fishing noted.
3. Why are you worried about what type of Vig Admiral is? This reads very scummy to me.

VOTE: SquareOb

Wednesday is not far off and you are a more viable wagon than my other top suspect Nero.

[LimMePls]

I'm caught up on this game. SO needs rope badly.

[Square Obscure]

Lol, this case is shit. I'm scum for believing a claim? Might as well lynch the entire town.

And Spyrex seems to be the only person here with some semblance of intelligence, or towniness. I noticed too late that my "strongman fishing" made it incredibly obvious what my role is. I think the scum caught on - now they're using shit logic to get me lynched, and the townlemmings are believing them.

[Furry]

Lol, this case is shit. I'm scum for believing a claim?

Meh, I can point out a few other things when I dont have to leave for class in about ten mintues

I noticed too late that my "strongman fishing" made it incredibly obvious what my role is. I think the scum caught on - now they're using shit logic to get me lynched, and the townlemmings are believing them.

I doubt that you are really a role that has bearing on strongman. If you are then you are probably scum. If you are a doctor, how the hell would you be concerned about protecting the "vig" target? If you are a RB why would you consider RBing the claimed vig? Neither of those make sense from a town perspective. Both of those make sense from a scum prospective.

[Thor665]

@MoI - What do you think of my case on Tripod? I think it's the only thing you didn't even comment on. There's a case there and also a rather telling mental juxtaposition that strongly suggests a fake (scummy) mindset - thoughts?

[Square Obscure]

@Furry: You're either not too bright or scum deliberately ignoring the last possibility. SInce you've been around longer than me, I'm more willing to bet on the latter.

@Mod: Vote count please[/b]

I'm claiming at L-2, because scum will not pass up an opportunity to hammer me if they know my role.

[HackerHuck]

Lol, this case is shit. I'm scum for believing a claim?

Meh, I can point out a few other things when I dont have to leave for class in about ten mintues

I noticed too late that my "strongman fishing" made it incredibly obvious what my role is. I think the scum caught on - now they're using shit logic to get me lynched, and the townlemmings are believing them.

I doubt that you are really a role that has bearing on strongman. If you are then you are probably scum. If you are a doctor, how the hell would you be concerned about protecting the "vig" target? If you are a RB why would you consider RBing the claimed vig? Neither of those make sense from a town perspective. Both of those make sense from a scum prospective.

This is a really good point, but I don't follow what Slaxx was getting at earlier. I also didn't follow Furry's drunken comments regarding the Bowser wagon.

I'm not keen on MoI's directing of night actions, since we don't have consensus around it yet. I think that's something that's more useful later in the game once we have a little more information about kills. Even with kill flavour, there's still the remote possibility that he's mafia taking a gamble. It's even more concerning that he admonished SO for target fishing in the very same post.


Lynchmepls seems to be coasting along and although he's on the SO wagon, he got on early for really odd reasons. I don't see it as a bussing vote though, so he's probably town if Square flips scum.

I'm not done with Bowser, but I'm in agreement that Square's recent comments about Thad/Data are possible scumslips. UNVOTE: Boswer/Untrod
VOTE: Square Obscure

Mod

- Could we get a prod on ApathyCupcakes?

preview edit - I'm pretty sure my vote is L-1, so you'd best claim now.

[Square Obscure]

I'm a Bulletproof Townie. If you want to prove it have ThAdmiral shoot me tonight.

[Twomz]

*Narrows eyes*

I'm actually thinking BP GF or a RBer who plans on targeting ThAd tonight.

Anyone else agree with me? I don't want to put him at L-1 if I'm the only one who doubts the claim.

[Twomz]

This post used to be Twomz's before SK invaded it.

*Just a double post that I can't delete because MS won't let me.)

[danakillsu]

Well...I don't know. I had said that SO was my number 2 scum choice, but this claim throws me off. Twomz does bring up a couple of bizarre ways that SO could still be scum, but I don't really think the chances of either are great. A BP GF would be ultra-powerful, and ThAd might be told if he was roleblocked. Here's my question:
@ SO
How many shots can you survive?

[Untrod Tripod]

ninja'd by Twomz and dana

it's really likely that if ThAd is a vig, his kill will be messed with tonight. not sure that SO is necessarily the person who will do it, but best case scenario we waste a vig shot, more likely scenario we learn nothing. Why waste our time and vig shot when we can lynch a scummy player now?

Do you feel that Nik is pushing your wagon without reasons and Square is sheeping. Is there any other reason why you voted Square? Or is it simply survivalist as he’s a viable alternate wagon to you?

Yes he is, but I don't think Square is necessarily sheeping so much as jumping on what he perceives as an easy wagon. I don't think we can say now whether or not they're scumbuddies.
I think Square has said some legit scummy things. He's advocating that we waste a vig shot to "confirm" him (which would probably not confirm him at all).
Obviously I don't want to get lynched, but I'm not voting for him for the purpose of surviving. I'm trying to help lynch scum.

Well...I don't know. I had said that SO was my number 2 scum choice, but this claim throws me off. Twomz does bring up a couple of bizarre ways that SO could still be scum, but I don't really think the chances of either are great. A BP GF would be ultra-powerful, and ThAd might be told if he was roleblocked.

He could just be scum making a claim that's impossible to verify without a cop investigation that also goes towards persuading the vig or SK to not target him. Bulletproof scum or 3rd party is not out of the question (but not bulletproof GF, that would be a busted role).
Also, I've never played in a game where you were notified if you got RBed, is that common?

[Square Obscure]

AFAIK I'm a permanent BP but that's all I am.

[Thor665]

@dana - if you believe he's bulletproof why in the 'eff would you want to get a public answer to that question?

@Twomz - RB seems more likely of the two options you've presented. I'm not sure I'm super-excited to lynch a claimed BP Day 1. What do you think of my Tripod case and slip catch?

EBWOP - Blargh ninja!

@Tripod - I've been in games both where you received a RB PM and in ones where you didn't - I can think of an easy way to solve that dilemma that doesn't involve being noncommittal;

Mod - do you give RB PMs in your games?

It depends on the game.

Also, seriously, no comment whatsoever on my declaring a scumslip from you? I'm not going away that easily.

[LimMePls]

I'm a Bulletproof Townie. If you want to prove it have ThAdmiral shoot me tonight.

If this is true, why would you care if he is strongman or not? If he is strongman, then he can shoot you and you die, and there is nothing you can do about it. If he isn't, then he can shoot you and you live. What purpose is there in pushing for that information?

Bulletproof is easy scum claim. This lynch is a go.

[apathyplusCUPCAKES]

Back from the weekend, apologies for the lack of v/la.

Will look at the game later.