Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[xvart]

xvart, the cultists would still have to waste some actions, which is a victory of sorts (albeit a minor one)

I think Benmage should offer 4 names. His target + 3 others.

Shit, you're right. The action is wasted but the rez kit is not. I rescind my recension.

xvart.

[SpyreX]

Town (TM):
Furcolow
Hitorogoshi
Seacore
Trilobite
VasudeVa
Wraith

Town:
Kunkstar7
MoI
nopoint (via SSBF)
Plum
Triglav (TM if RC is cult)
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
xvart

Scum:
AV
El Goosuki

Remainder via scum-town reads:
totallynotmafia
Manho (this is ridiculous at this point)
Feysal
Baby Spice
Nicodemus (this goes way up if LB cult)
Furpants_Tom
Andrius

Needs to die real soon (hint: this would be a great 'vig'):
Benmage

Important Things Version 1:
Town TM is town, fo sho. Those reads I'm absolutely confident in.
Town 2 probably has a slippery bugger. Maaaybe 2.
The remainder is heavy scum slanted.
The scum we'll talk about now.

AV:

Sans everything I've talked about before there's more than enough of this business that drives me nuts:

Looking back at the noise/ward list, there's 5 players who claim to have made noise-making actions to four different players. There are 13 players who claim to have heard noise. 13 players, less 4 noise making targeted players, leaves nine unaccounted-for noises. I figure this could be explained by:
(a) some cult not fake-claiming ward on their craft fetish target
(b) some cult claiming to have heard noise when they didn't
(c) some wannabe murderers on the loose

What do people think the likeliest reasons are? I say reasons, because it has to be a combination of at least 2 of the above...and I think it could be a combination of all three =_="

No cult kill last night? So it's likely that someone res'd successfully? Or cult wifom with aspirations of collecting successful res town points?

Thoughts on LB: potential murderer, or cultist?

In this game of noise this kind of business isn't awesome to begin with.

However, when you add that these are absolutely low-ball noanswer questions I'm more than a little peeked. Especially the "ohh cult didn't kill for the wifom wifom wifom" mantra like we got with benmage when there is no wifom and even with all the issues I have with keeping this setup straight the idea of not killing makes no sense. none. Even a failed kill is throwin insanities out.

But, that mantra does bring up the new deal that WHILE THERE WAS A POINT I WAS DOUBTING MYSELF I am calling teaparty on:

Didn't we say Occulting N1 was no good yesterday? IMO, Occulting N1 is a risky move that is probably not going to yield results (as it doesn't catch cult til N2). The best town explanation for that insanity is if he was given a fetish. But of course there's also the chance LB was a murderer.

(c) some wannabe murderers on the loose

Didn't we say Occulting N1 was no good yesterday? IMO, Occulting N1 is a risky move that is probably not going to yield results (as it doesn't catch cult til N2). The best town explanation for that insanity is if he was given a fetish. But of course there's also the chance LB was a murderer.
If he got an insanity, it is likelier that he was either cult or that he was planning on going the murder route (I think this for reasons that I have explained above). In that case the insanity was from stalking (=planning on going murderer) or it was from performing the ritual (=cult). So what song and dance am I doing?

Considering I still get twitches in my brain after the repeated arguments of "ohh snap benmage is town town town even if he's scummy because he's A HERO USING HIS TOWN ONLY KILLING PEOPLE POWERS" has all of a sudden turned to filthy murderers I'm calling BS. One side or the other take your pick (hint: it was the Benmage side because having Ben come out and kill Fate before failuregate was all cult upside).

BUT, no, he doesn't get the vote.

El Goosuki:

Has done nothing useful. At all. 0%.

Which isn't enough but Seacore was tech enough to do the dance right and call out:

During Day 1, El Goosuki posted this.

El Goosuki sends all his/her love to hitogoroshi for his guide to Investigators and baby Cthulhu picnic picture.

During N1, El Goosuki claims to have ignored this much loved guide and wasted a night action.
Vote: El Goosuki

Unvote, Vote: El Goosuki

And when I'm right here maybe the light can be seen assuming I'm not dead come morning on AV.

-----

OTHER THINGS:

Plum, et al:

While I'm down with not lynching Ben because he's not cult I'm more than a little baffled at all of you (but ESPECIALLY you since we talked about this earlier) aren't saying its time for the first ACTUAL useful murder to happen. It's early but how are you not on the pain-train?

Which, of course, is of special interest considering while you CAN say Wraith 'wasn't scumhunting' he sure oozes town to me in that special Fate-way in wanting Benmage dead to rights once he said he was taking his ball and doing what he wants with it.

AND SPEAKING OF PAIN TRAIN

It might be time to think about culling some doom via useful and planned murders.

There has to be a way to do it right and I may need some help planning it out.

Dissolve: RC

[Nicodemus]

I still haven't had a chance to read the second half of D1. But I am up to speed on D2 happenings, so I'm going to

Vote: Furpants_Tom

. His insistence on voting nearly-confirmed town Ben is completely suspect. There is no reason to lynch Benmage right now, as it is impossible for him to be a murderer, and Tom admits that he doesn't think he is scum. Keeping would-be murderers alive late into the game in SAII worked very well for town, allowing them to have regular grave robbers who were unlikely to be scum and soaked up insanities that would otherwise go to townies. Benmage would be a perfect graverobber in this sense.

-----

Dispatch: ReaperCharlie

I really don't see the point in dispatching Fate at the moment, as it just gives us more bodies to rob for the sake of robbing them. I would much prefer to save his body for tomorrow.

[Furpants_Tom]

Benmage can be controlled tonight with graverobbing; if he doesn't, we will lynch him, and I'm sure you'll be happy. In the meantime you haven't responded to other things I've noted from you which make no sense.

Given that he didn't do what we told him last night, what makes you think he's controllable tonight? The only way we're going to stop him killing a townie is to threaten him with a hemp neck-massage today unless he gives us his target, and we have to be serious about it. Yesterday, he was toothless, because we knew who he was going to kill, and had rez kits available to stop it. Today, he's not answering anyone's questions about his target, and he's explicitly said he plans to go through with it. Why let him? If you can think of a way to control him, I'm all ears.

[Seacore]

Most of the people who are pushing for Benmage's death are doing so because they believe he's an investigator. (which he probably is)
Following that logic
If we kill Benmage today, we are definitely killing an investigator (albeit a fairly jerky one), to save an unknown
If we let him live he kills somebody he thinks is scum and we get to lynch somebody who we think is scum (i.e. El Goosuki)
So, definitely killing an investigator vs maybe killing an investigator + good lynch

On top of this, if Benmage goes through with his kill, he's had his one kill. That'll end all of this shit. If it doesn't, then we'll definitely kill him because we'll know he's going murderer. He knows we know this, so it's in his interest right now to aim at a good suspect.

For those who think I've changed my song since yesterday, two important pieces of information are different
1) Benmage has had a chance to read people's play before this stalk, therefore it's hopefully game based
2) He's now a day later into the game, it's harder for him to win as a murderer.

He doesn't get a blank cheque. But lets let him kill, and then make him rob graves from now until the end of time.

[VasudeVa]

STOP CLAIMING INSANITIES. FFS.

Username: VasudeVa
Did you Hear Noise? Yes.
Did you Ward? If so, who? No
Did you successfully resuscitate? If so, who? No.
Were you murdered? No
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? No

Dispatch: RC and FATE

Vote: MoI

MoI still needs dead btw.

[nopointinactingup]

I got DAMN lucky there. Without that obscene luck it would have backfired really hard. As it is I find it somewhat suspect that we have two claimed successful Wicked Rezzers. Question being - to both of them -

why Rez Wicked???

Cuz he's cul.

Yeah, barring new leads, I'd be ok with a BenMage lynch. Probably he's an investigator, but by lynching him, we keep another investigator alive. Neutral at worst.

Hey Ben, without telling us who you're stalking, can you tell us what you're looking for in scum? What convinces you someone would be a good idea to stalk? I might change my mind if it sounds convincing...

Vote: BenMage

Vote:Furpants

I'm not sure why so many people seem sure about Lost Butterfly having been a cultist. Sure, the one insanity looks bad. But, why would the cult not have resuscitated them? They might have gotten the insanity by using commune just last night.

Maybe it's because no cults would need Rez kit at game beginning when there's no sign of murderer yet?

Was your rez

successful?

also, there is no fucking way I want baby spice or wraith to be robbing

I agree with VP Baltar's plan, having two people robbing a grave, each pair with a likely town and a likely cult.

Wickedstjr + Seacore robs Fate
Furc + Babyspice robs RC
Benmage + El goose robs LB
VP + Wraith robs today's lynch

Also, Benmage must reveal his target and continue his kill today to prove that he's investigator.

[nopointinactingup]

Dispatch RC
Dispatch Fate

[Furpants_Tom]

Also, Benmage must reveal his target and continue his kill today to prove that he's investigator.

How many times do I have to say this? He's not going to tell you anything, unless you actually put your money where your mouth is, and vote for him.

[AurorusVox]

No cult kill last night? So it's likely that someone res'd successfully? Or cult wifom with aspirations of collecting successful res town points?

Last isn't applicable; people who get Murdered and Rezzed get flavor; if they wanted to waste a Rez kit and a kill on a Townie for cred not guaranteed (if someone else claims a Rez on the fellow it's down the drain, and there's no control over that).

No, I mean, cult may have NK'd (since people were mod-killed, it's not like they'd be losing out on skipping tonight's kill) - and then one claims to have been murdered, and the other claims to have res'd them. If there are no other murdered-claims to the contrary, it could even go as far as to clear two players at once.

---

ITT, SpyreX still has a hard-on of hate for me. I'll do this in a way you might understand:

POTENTIAL FOR WIFOM EXISTS. TO OUTRIGHT IGNORE THAT IS STUPID. I AM CAPABLE OF CONSIDERING MULTIPLE IDEAS AT ONCE. IT IS NOT HARD.

Better?

So, SpyreX, how comes when El G was doing nothing yesterday it wasn't worth a vote, but because Seacore says something, it suddenly is? If that's the only difference, why did you make the comment about 0%? Oh...and didn't multiple people tell me the 0% contribution argument was no good when I voted El G yesterday? So...are you trying to NOT look like you're bandwaggoning the vote? Trying to make it look like you have more than a baa to go on? Since, y'know, Plum called you out on that yesterday?

---

Dispatch: RC

[nopointinactingup]

Benmage claimed stalking Fate D1
Benmage pushed for Fate lynch ( perhaps because he’s been stalking LB )
Benmage claimed stalking unknown D2 ( parhaps because he murdered LB )
= Benmage is NOWHERE cleared as investigator unless he goes through with his promised kill tonight.

[Furpants_Tom]

Benmage claimed stalking Fate D1
Benmage pushed for Fate lynch ( perhaps because he’s been stalking LB )
Benmage claimed stalking unknown D2 ( parhaps because he murdered LB )
= Benmage is NOWHERE cleared as investigator unless he goes through with his promised kill tonight.

I completely agree. That still doesn't make it a good idea, or even remotely worth the cost.

[Feysal]

As it is I find it somewhat suspect that we have two claimed successful Wicked Rezzers. Question being - to both of them -

why Rez Wicked???

I had a res kit and 8 potential targets to use it on. My feelings about them were mostly neutral. hitogoroshi I considered town, despite the Fate fiasco, but he also felt too obvious. I considered xvart, but settled on Wickedestjr, since he'd been catching up and I thought he might be overlooked otherwise. Apparently not.

Was your rez

successful?

Indeed it was.

I feel like I missed a claimed insanity somewhere or a claimed action... Please correct me if I missed something or entered something incorrectly.

Seacore's insanity, but that was already pointed out. And my resuscitate action on Wickedestjr.

Wait, seriously? I didn't even notice Wicked was murdered and rezz'd. Shit, that means we have two murderers to deal with and one would-be murderer.

Two

murderers and

one

would-be murderer? I suppose you mean whoever killed LB, whoever tried to kill Wickedestjr, and Benmage? What about the cult kill then?

El Goosuki:

Has done nothing useful. At all. 0%.

On closer thought, their investigate action of xvart is worse than useless, since by causing him to hear noise they may have masked other causes of noise. I would expect a hydra of three to have more common sense than this.

[Furcolow]

the cthulhu song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzKpWww3Npc
please listen!!

[Furcolow]

xvart, when i said "i don't need the res kit" here, why do you think I don't need it anymore?
Also, in my original claim post, I stated "I wanted RC's res kit, but Vi didn't let me rob/ward, so ..."

I assumed you Searched instead of Warding (and I didn't even make the connection about the rez kit), but the way it was written is that you decided to Search when denied the rob grave action. I just wanted it clearly stated.

I've decided I'm not graverobbing
I have no insanities, I'd like to keep it that way
I will probably be ritualed anyways

If someone wants to commune me, or admit they communed me, by all means...

I hope you're using it on me, wraith

If you think you are going to get killed by the Cult, then wouldn't it be good for you to be the grave robber? We get some insanities on someone who isn't going to be around?

@xvart

– You chose to ward El Goo over any number of more Pro-Town players (Hito for one) just to test a theory that we put to be 30 or so pages ago thanks to Furc's mod clearance?

Yes. It's something I would not be able to get over if I had not done it; and now that I have, I can move on. Additionally, my original plan was to change my action once I received some sort of confirmation back. If I didn't receive any confirmation back, then I knew Furculow's story was bogus and could run with that. However, after I got confirmation back I thought about it and felt like what I was doing could be considered gaming the system, and decided that I needed to follow through with it.

@ xvart, Seacore claimed an Twitchy Insanity from getting passed a fetish in #1814.

Thanks. I'll put it in once I get manho's claims.

Wait, seriously? I didn't even notice Wicked was murdered and rezz'd. Shit, that means we have two murderers to deal with and one would-be murderer.

@kinkstar, @xvart: opinions on the Benmage claim issue. Now.

I'm considering asking for a group of possibilities for his stalk target. I think it could actually be helpful because if he names some actual Cult in the group then the Cult will have to waste some Rez Kits if they think that might actually be the target. Then, we'll also have the information tomorrow about who Rezzed who on Benmage's target and we can move on from there. Right now I don't think it is a good idea to ask for a specific target for the same reason you don't ask a vig for a specific kill target in any other game. Even if he is going Murderer he can't really get away with killing someone unless they are scummy so even if he is planning on going Murderer his target should align (hopefully) to the town's objective.

xvart.

I figured you assumed, that's why I didn't feel you needed to ask
Thank you for addressing me at the top of your post. Much easier to get to the points you want me to cover.

I am against VP Baltar's plan, now that you have mentioned it. I feel like we need to trap people and lock their night actions. If we have two people robbing two graves together, who is to say one of them can't skimp on their duty? I don't even care if they get corpse dust. It only counters rez kits, honestly, and locks up one of their actions. We could simply ward the graves/keep them soulless. We really need to discuss this more. I wouldn't mind keeping a shortened graveyard until we can get some confirmation/answers.

I'd rather see it like this, though:
RC: Benmage
Fate: Benmage
Today's lynch: someone we vote on
LB: someone we vote on

I know the other way we can prevent people from gaining corpse dust, but it'd be worth it for me just to have benmage get a rez kit in case he actually wants to do something useful. I don't see how we can keep benmage until the endgame, either, with his early claims. I know how it is to stalk twice, and not kill anyone, though, Ben, it's hard. I'm asking you to do that for the town this game.

xvart, the cultists would still have to waste some actions, which is a victory of sorts (albeit a minor one)

I think Benmage should offer 4 names. His target + 3 others.

I suggested this, but I'd rather it be a few more than 4. I don't really care if it's 5 or 7 though. 4 would be fine. I'd just like to be able to rule myself out. Knowing his sadistic ass, he would list me even if he didn't stalk me

I still haven't had a chance to read the second half of D1. But I am up to speed on D2 happenings, so I'm going to

Vote: Furpants_Tom

. His insistence on voting nearly-confirmed town Ben is completely suspect. There is no reason to lynch Benmage right now, as it is impossible for him to be a murderer, and Tom admits that he doesn't think he is scum. Keeping would-be murderers alive late into the game in SAII worked very well for town, allowing them to have regular grave robbers who were unlikely to be scum and soaked up insanities that would otherwise go to townies. Benmage would be a perfect graverobber in this sense.

-----

Dispatch: ReaperCharlie

I really don't see the point in dispatching Fate at the moment, as it just gives us more bodies to rob for the sake of robbing them. I would much prefer to save his body for tomorrow.

I could go forever not being reminded of that endgame for town. You say it like we won. There is no way we will be able to keep benmage alive. I am town, and I would be completely fine going ahead and lynching him. Set an example.

[Furcolow]

the reasons why it's better to have a single robber

----------------

the reasons why it's not

people can be held accountable-----------------------------------possible corpse dust
possible equipment--------------------------------------2 people lose the ability to have other night actions
people can't skimp on duties
cult might lose actions to save their lives
insanities in one place or two as opposed to 4
can get use out of scummy players

I find it better to have two people rob two graves. If they don't, we lynch them. Make BenMage do one, since he already has 2 insanities, and this way we can make sure he acts pro-town and doesn't misvig someone like a moron.

[nopointinactingup]

Dude. If someone flaked out on robbing graves, the other person would get an item so the flaker would be exposed.

[Vi]

Vote Count:

*whisper whisper*

Benmage (4)

~

Trilobite,

Wraith, AurorusVox, Furcolow, Furpants_Tom

MagnaofIllusion (4)

~ Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa

El Goosuki (2)

~ Seacore, SpyreX

Furpants_Tom (2)

~ Nicodemus, nopointinactingup

Wraith (1)

~

Benmage,

Plum

Not Voting (12):

Andrius,

AurorusVox,

Baby Spice,

Benmage, Nicodemus,

El Goosuki, Feysal,

Furcolow, Furpants_Tom,

hitogoroshi, kunkstar7, MagnaofIllusion,

Plum, Wraith, Seacore, SpyreX, nopointinactingup,

totallynotmafia, Triglav,

Trilobite, VasudeVa, VP Baltar,

Wickedestjr, manho, xvart

Dispatch Order:

ReaperCharlie (12)

~

AurorusVox,

xvart,

Furcolow,

VP Baltar, kunkstar7, totallynotmafia, Plum, MagnaofIllusion, Seacore, SpyreX, Nicodemus, VasudeVa, nopointinactingup, AurorusVox

Fate (7)

~

AurorusVox,

Furcolow, VP Baltar, kunkstar7, MagnaofIllusion, Seacore, VasudeVa, nopointinactingup

--With 25 alive, it takes 13 to secure a lynch and/or dispatch one of the Soulless.
--There is no deadline as of yet.

---Nine pages in less than 24 hours? As a norm? Wow.

---Happy scumday, Seacore!

[VP Baltar]

@ben - why did you take obsession instead of twitchy?

I agree with VP Baltar's plan, having two people robbing a grave, each pair with a likely town and a likely cult.

Wickedstjr + Seacore robs Fate
Furc + Babyspice robs RC
Benmage + El goose robs LB
VP + Wraith robs today's lynch

The problem with this is that you're not shutting anyone down by doing it. I completely agree that we should have one town and one scum suspect per grave so we stop any chance of corpse dust/lying about grave robbing. However, Rob Grave is a free action, so unless you have the scummy players robbing two graves, you are giving them a get out of jail free card. Following that same logic, you probably need to just have the town players rob two graves tonight as well and switch them out on future days, thus spreading out the insanities for the town and concentrating them on scummy players.

@tom - you insistence that I need to come up with someone better than Benmage for you to vote is ridiculous. Even if you don't agree with the MoI case, surely there are people in this game you think are likely to be cult. Are there? I find it hard to believe that 77 pages in you don't have a single person you think is highly likely to be cult. In fact, I'd like to hear your thoughts on who these people could be in your mind. Then I'd like to hear your thoughts as to why lynching hypo-murderer today > lynching your top cult suspect.

@Furc - basically what nopoint said. if people skip, we'll know since most people probably have equipment at this point. Any cultists we manage to put on grave robbing duty are going to be too scared of skipping because getting caught out is game over. Same for murderers really. As long as we pair it up town v. scum, the scum is always going to follow through with the grave robbing.

I need to go through my notes at some point today and post some of the stuff I wrote on my reread. First:

@Vas - you stated at some point late in the day that Wraith bothered you, but you had such a strong town read on rewq that it was negated. For information purposes, am I missing something? Did rewq do something that was exceedingly protown or is this a gut read for you?

@Spyrex - I almost have to laugh that you are calling Wraith equatable to Fate in his Benmage bloodlust. It is pretty clear to me that Wraith sees Benmage as an easy mislynch/needs to save his own skin from a stalk. I don't see how you are reading town motivations out of anything he is saying.

@Wraith - Who is cult? Do you even care about finding cult in this game?

Happy Scumday, Seacore!

[AurorusVox]

Regarding Benmage

I don't think he's a threat as being a murderer. I think he's a threat because he's cult.

- He did NOT follow through his kill, despite it being the perfect opportunity to do so (the fact that Fate was soulless negates almost all of the drawbacks to vigging him)
- He has since said that he only wanted to catch scum with his kill - but that wasn't his plan yesterday. His plan yesterday was to vig Fate to prove his town-cred. When he thought Fate was scum, he wanted to LYNCH him, not vig him.
- He now won't claim his stalked target, which could mean he's planning on claiming a N2 murdered body as his

own

kill (a devious plan since the actual killer won't out themselves, as they're doing it secretly).
- ALL of this screams that he never stalked Fate, and that he didn't stalk last night.

Why would he do this, you ask?

- Well, as I said D1, he only claimed stalk AFTER it was made clear that doing so would clear him as a townie.
- He probably did not realise that he'd be forced to follow it through. In fact he even tried to prevent it being followed through with his desire to lynch Fate.
- And then he started accepting the idea as we were discussing how it wasn't a reliable plan anyway, how cult could frame him (read: he realised he could rely on those excuses to escape any backlash from not killing Fate)


Now I ask those on his wagon with me: what do you think? Are you voting for him because you think he is planning on becoming a murderer, or because you think he's a cultist?

[Furpants_Tom]

@tom - you insistence that I need to come up with someone better than Benmage for you to vote is ridiculous. Even if you don't agree with the MoI case, surely there are people in this game you think are likely to be cult. Are there? I find it hard to believe that 77 pages in you don't have a single person you think is highly likely to be cult. In fact, I'd like to hear your thoughts on who these people could be in your mind. Then I'd like to hear your thoughts as to why lynching hypo-murderer today > lynching your top cult suspect.

I think he's probably an investigator (although it's a very, very long way from confirmed, and he's nowhere near the top of my town list); but since he won't tell us who he stalked and won't promise not to make the kill, he's got to die.

Everyone seems to be saying "Well, if he doesn't play nice, we'll lynch him tomorrow". However,

a) He's telling us, right now, that he won't play nice. He's going to kill someone, and he's certainly not going to tell us who he's targeted unless he's actually facing the noose.
b) Our lynch tomorrow is vastly more valuable than our lynch today; because we'll know a lot more.
c) There's a pretty good chance we'll leave him alive tomorrow, even if he kills - in fact, he's banking on the kill improving his survivability. So we lose a real townie, and Ben gets rewarded for his bad behaviour. Welcome to Moral Hazard, population: us.
d) People assigning him to graverobs tonight are kidding themselves and building plans that will fail, which will make our night less effective.

So no, I won't be pointing out any cult suspects, until Ben has agreed to play by the town's rules, or is swinging from a branch.

[VP Baltar]

He did NOT follow through his kill, despite it being the perfect opportunity to do so (the fact that Fate was soulless negates almost all of the drawbacks to vigging him)

I think that would have been a terribly stupid use of night action considering it wouldn't have made Fate dead from my interpretation of the rules. Not that Ben didn't proceed to waste his night action anyhow, but ...

He has since said that he only wanted to catch scum with his kill - but that wasn't his plan yesterday. His plan yesterday was to vig Fate to prove his town-cred. When he thought Fate was scum, he wanted to LYNCH him, not vig him.

I agree with you that Ben isn't out to catch scum (though I'm sure he thinks this is an added bonus). Where I disagree is that I believe Ben is out for Ben. He truly thinks by killing he will confirm himself town and be superawesomepowerful. Of course, that all relies on the premise that he's investigator and not cult.

He now won't claim his stalked target, which could mean he's planning on claiming a N2 murdered body as his own kill (a devious plan since the actual killer won't out themselves, as they're doing it secretly).

This is patently ridiculous and relies on Benmage having outside knowledge that there is in fact going to be a N2 murder. How would Ben be sure enough of this to claim it? Seems like a stupidly risky plan for a cult. Way too much of a gamble.

ALL of this screams that he never stalked Fate, and that he didn't stalk last night.

No.

He probably did not realise that he'd be forced to follow it through. In fact he even tried to prevent it being followed through with his desire to lynch Fate.

So you are suggesting that cultBen and all of his buddies did not realize that if you claim stalk, you're going to be expected to murder that person?

a) He's telling us, right now, that he won't play nice. He's going to kill someone, and he's certainly not going to tell us who he's targeted unless he's actually facing the noose.

Actually, he said he'd grave rob. And it doesn't matter because he doesn't get a choice.

b) Our lynch tomorrow is vastly more valuable than our lynch today; because we'll know a lot more.

This is empty rhetoric. Our lynch today is plenty valuable and you have more than 70 pages of info to look for cult.

c) There's a pretty good chance we'll leave him alive tomorrow, even if he kills

No there isn't. If he kills tonight, I'm voting and badgering everyone until he's lynched. End of story.

d) People assigning him to graverobs tonight are kidding themselves and building plans that will fail, which will make our night less effective.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? Having played in SAII, I will affirmatively state that grave robbing shuts down scum. I've stated above while they won't veer away from their assigned graves. Your refutation of that argument is essentially, "Oh yes they will!"

So no, I won't be pointing out any cult suspects, until Ben has agreed to play by the town's rules, or is swinging from a branch.

WTF? yeah, I would lynch Furpants today too. He clearly is not scumhunting and is trying to stall it for as long as he can because he can't make a real case. All I did was ask for some damn names and even those can't be provided.

Scums in need of the rope post haste

:
MoI
Furpants Tom
Wraith
Baby Spice
El Goos

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think that would have been a terribly stupid use of night action considering it wouldn't have made Fate dead from my interpretation of the rules. Not that Ben didn't proceed to waste his night action anyhow, but ...

I think your intpretation of the rules needs a serious overhaul.

1. Fate is still alive.
2. Mods have stated actions would still affect them.

How you are getting anything other than Benmage could complete his Stalk-Murder chain on Fate?

Scums in need of the rope post haste:
MoI

I see you’ve chosen the VV style Rhetoric / Repetition route as opposed to backing your statements. Noted.

@Plum

– In case you missed my question I’d like you to answer this in regards to El Goo:

Or perhaps El Goo could be Cult. Glad you didn’t factor that into your BRILLIANT explanation. Any reason why that possibility slipped your mind?

[AurorusVox]

He did NOT follow through his kill, despite it being the perfect opportunity to do so (the fact that Fate was soulless negates almost all of the drawbacks to vigging him)

I think that would have been a terribly stupid use of night action considering it wouldn't have made Fate dead from my interpretation of the rules.

Where has this interpretation come from? It clearly states that night actions can still be used on Fate, i.e. he could have been killed/murdered.

He now won't claim his stalked target, which could mean he's planning on claiming a N2 murdered body as his own kill (a devious plan since the actual killer won't out themselves, as they're doing it secretly).

This is patently ridiculous and relies on Benmage having outside knowledge that there is in fact going to be a N2 murder. How would Ben be sure enough of this to claim it? Seems like a stupidly risky plan for a cult. Way too much of a gamble.

There was a murder N1. No one claimed that they would be stalking/murdering. Thus that person is hoping to achieve the murder wincon. Thus there is someone who is going to stalk and murder again --- ooooh. I see. I'm getting the fucking numbers mixed up again. Fucksticks.

Regardless, he could have Cult Buddy A claim to be the target of a kill; Cult Buddy B claims to have resurrected "A," and finally Ben claim that "A" was the stalked target. Not to mention that this would account for bloody states and insanities on the part of those involved. I understand the attraction of Occam's Razor, but I think this setup lends itself to outrageous plans and gambits.

He probably did not realise that he'd be forced to follow it through. In fact he even tried to prevent it being followed through with his desire to lynch Fate.

So you are suggesting that cultBen and all of his buddies did not realize that if you claim stalk, you're going to be expected to murder that person?

I'm suggesting that he claimed stalk in the immediate vicinity of Furc saying that stalkers were clear townies. There wasn't much time for debate. Ben could easily have seized the moment without thinking or talking it through.

---

Scums in need of the rope post haste

:
El Goos

For future reference, I can get on board with an El G lynch, but I'd prefer a Ben lynch.

[manho]

skipped page 20 to the end of day 1 and read day 2.

CD2

Username: manho

Did you Hear Noise? no

Did you Ward? If so, who? no

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions? no

List all of the insanities you currently have: no

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who? no

Were you murdered? no

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.) no

Twitch? no

dispatch: RC

and that's hammer.
fate can be left soulless for now as i don't think having so many corpse out there is good.

we shouldn't lynch benmage now, as he will be murdered sooner or later. murderer needs to kill all other murderers to win.

i seriouly doubt all 3 claiming to have been passed fatish are telling the truth. as that's the best claim by cult to explain his insanity.

vote: wraith

for now.

and did el goosuki really lied on that?