Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Benmage]

I like tnm's last post. When I am at a computer I will explain why I also find kunk likely scum.

VPB how many days do you think you can go dwelling solely on me and performing zero actual scum hunting (feel free to save the answer for endgame)

[Benmage]

and i mean like 3 graves, 3 players warding
we should force people we consider cult to ward graves
if they dont, they die
if more than one dont, then we break out stalks.

There might be something to this.

[VP Baltar]

VPB how many days do you think you can go dwelling solely on me and performing zero actual scum hunting (feel free to save the answer for endgame)

Do you feel it's unclear who I suspect?

[Furcolow]

more than one doesn't*
wow, my grammar is going downhill.

[Benmage]

VPB how many days do you think you can go dwelling solely on me and performing zero actual scum hunting (feel free to save the answer for endgame)

Do you feel it's unclear who I suspect?

Suspect? Nope you gave a nice little list people and even yourself can point to. You also voted MoI, but your doing little campaigning or persuasion that way and seem much more concerned with my affairs. Bussing?

[totallynotmafia]

Uhh Furc, we need to rob graves so we can get the dead players allignments.

I'm sick of the BM issue being an opportunity for cultists to look town by going "OMG DON'T YOU DARE KILL ANYONE HOW DARE YOU IN A GAME OF MAFIA"

This certainly a deep thought. That being said, how do you account for all of the people wanting him to stop behaving like a child on Day 1 with his stalk? Those people were cult too? Who do you feel are the cultists that are worried about Benmage? Personally, I think the cultists would be in support of Benmage killing because statistically speaking he's likely to hit town and thus save the cult the trouble. Also, your point about the night actions is simply wrong. IIRC, the Ritual, which is more than likely the cult's main concern at night, is a free action. Therefore, they can rez their buddies and kill whomever they please all without breaking a sweat!

Next fallacious argument why Benmage should follow through with his kill?

So launder, search, ward, pass fetish, craft fetish and rob grave are unecessary actions for cult? God, I hope for your sake you're not a cultist.

A night 1 stalk is different from a night 0 stalk because the stalker is actually trying to kill cult based on some level of scum-hunting.

And I meant the fact that everybody is arguing that BM shouldn't go through with the kill is why cultists can do it and look pro-town, because obviously town members are doing it too.

[VP Baltar]

Suspect? Nope you gave a nice little list people and even yourself can point to. You also voted MoI, but your doing little campaigning or persuasion that way and seem much more concerned with my affairs. Bussing?

Your over reigning stupidity and ignorance of the town's will forces me to give you more intention than is necessary. In case you didn't notice, I was trying to get people to not lynch you. And you're right, I'm bussing. You should vote MoI now so you can totally run me up tomorrow.

So launder, search, ward, pass fetish, craft fetish and rob grave are unecessary actions for cult? God, I hope for your sake you're not a cultist.

Yeah for sure. Those actions take care of the townies and thus help the scum reach their wincons. Cult needs to kill to win. They can do that and rez, that's my point.

[Furcolow]

if we make cult ward graves, though, we can take away like half of their night actions
while they may not ward the grave 100% if we pick cult to ward it, they will not rob it
the better strategy is to keep the graveyard empty

undispatch: fate

I am completely for warding graves, and winning through investigation, communing, and rezzing
This will keep insanity counts down. Who is to say cult won't just ward RC's grave if he is cult?

Lets take control of this, instead of putting a plan out they can foil. If we use like 8 people to rob 4 graves there is a large portion of the towns actions wasted through them having to ward graves. Cult themselves could even rob grave A and ward grave B to get their cultist buddy out of having to rob it whatsoever. "Oh, it was warded, I couldn't rob it", then a player who is town, and robbing the grave with them, could be like yeah, it was warded, which would give a cultist town cred.

The best way about this, in terms of limiting insanities and maximizing town actions, would be to hold off and ward on them imo

[Furpants_Tom]

Can I borrow your crystal ball? Having played in SAII, I will affirmatively state that grave robbing shuts down scum. I've stated above while they won't veer away from their assigned graves. Your refutation of that argument is essentially, "Oh yes they will!"

You can borrow my crystal ball, if I can borrow your mind control powers.

In the meantime those organizing tonight I will only perform 1 rob grave tonight and 1 tomorrow for killing and laundering.

Oh wait, don't bother, they don't work. You can't make him do what you want, and the town won't follow through with a lynch tomorrow - and he knows it. We either lynch Ben now, or we become intensely comfortable with the fact that we've licensed a random NK. And then we wait for every other investigator who's under threat and decides his credibility needs a boost to kill at random.

[Wraith]

TNM is probably cult. If El Goosuki is cult, TNM is

definitely

cult.

[Wraith]

Can I borrow your crystal ball? Having played in SAII, I will affirmatively state that grave robbing shuts down scum. I've stated above while they won't veer away from their assigned graves. Your refutation of that argument is essentially, "Oh yes they will!"

You can borrow my crystal ball, if I can borrow your mind control powers.

In the meantime those organizing tonight I will only perform 1 rob grave tonight and 1 tomorrow for killing and laundering.

Oh wait, don't bother, they don't work. You can't make him do what you want, and the town won't follow through with a lynch tomorrow - and he knows it. We either lynch Ben now, or we become intensely comfortable with the fact that we've licensed a random NK. And then we wait for every other investigator who's under threat and decides his credibility needs a boost to kill at random.

You've officially replaced Fate as the Only Sane Man. Thank God.

[AurorusVox]

@Furc: Warding graves also causes insanities though...so it's not completely wiping insanities off the list.

ANDY

, since you random-voted VV all day yesterday, what do you make of his case on MoI?

[Furpants_Tom]

You've officially replaced Fate as the Only Sane Man. Thank God.

I'm not sure that's something I'll be boasting about...

[Trilobite]

The general point I was making was two-fold. First that Zach’s response served only to be sarcastic. You rather closely followed on the heels with a general Sotty style comment. Since you are playing a Hydra and not making a significant effort to distinguish your posts the juxtaposition looks odd.

What is odd about it and is odd scummy?

This is just all kinds of weak sauce. You've played with me and you've played with Zach we are two quite different styles of player so even in a hydra the posting styles are going to be different. I have signed all of my posts bar a couple where I forgot, OJ has signed all her posts it doesn't take a math wiz to realize who made the others. You don't explain why it is odd and seem to be suggesting it was scummy (or else why bother bringing it up?) It just feels like a weak attempt at mud slinging.

I find it

odd

that you started this line of questioning and then promptly ignored my response opting instead to battle with Vv. It's like you knew it was a bullshit line of inquiry in the first place.

I'm also not sure what to make of the whole “a general Sotty style comment”

I realized I was skimming the last few pages so I am going to stop reading. Only a few pages back anyway.

~Sotty

[Seacore]

@Furc's idea to not grave rob

That's stupid.
We need the flips. We need the flips desperately. That is the biggest tool in the scum hunting tool box.

More el goosuki votes please.

@Wraith, why is there a relationship between tnm and el goo? Forgive me, as I've been skimming

[Seacore]

We either lynch Ben now, or we become intensely comfortable with the fact that we've licensed a random NK. And then we wait for every other investigator who's under threat and decides his credibility needs a boost to kill at random.

Tom, I don't recall seeing 'precedence' as part of your argument before, but I'll admit I have been skimming.

To be honest, the precedence of this doesn't really bother me. Let's face it, all of the investigators are 1-shot vigs if they want to stay town, and we can't stop people from doing it.
Benmage has come out and said it, but it wouldn't surprise me if others do it over the next couple of days and announce themselves after the fact.

As for people doing a kill "at random" when they're under threat, lets break that down.

1) It will take 2 nights for somebody who is under threat to clear themselves. They need to stalk and they need to kill. And I'm assuming they're trying to clear themselves as not being cult, rather than being town. That just won't happen. Somebody who we think is cult should be lynched, no "let me live for two more days and I'll prove it". The Benmage situation is not that situation. Well, it's not that situation for anybody but AV.

2) "At random" - Benmage isn't killing at random. Assuming he's an investigator, he is town. You may disagree about how pro-town his action is being, but he's not going to be able to go for murderer because the win condition is distinctly out of reach. Someone could investigate him on Night 4 and make sure he's laundered. At which stage it will be N8 before he could win. We can off him, if necessary, well before then.
Similiarly, others aren't going to be killing at random if this ever did come up, if they are town, it's a vig. That's not random.

Lets move on and actually start scum hunting, but lynching El Goosuki.

@ Benmage - Have you responded to why you won't name 4 potential targets. I think that would benefit town, and do away with the argument that you are just hoping there's a murder tomorrow for you to claim was yours.

[Seacore]

EBWOP *by lynching El Goosuki

[Wraith]

We either lynch Ben now, or we become intensely comfortable with the fact that we've licensed a random NK. And then we wait for every other investigator who's under threat and decides his credibility needs a boost to kill at random.

Tom, I don't recall seeing 'precedence' as part of your argument before, but I'll admit I have been skimming.

To be honest, the precedence of this doesn't really bother me. Let's face it, all of the investigators are 1-shot vigs if they want to stay town, and we can't stop people from doing it.
Benmage has come out and said it, but it wouldn't surprise me if others do it over the next couple of days and announce themselves after the fact.

As for people doing a kill "at random" when they're under threat, lets break that down.

1) It will take 2 nights for somebody who is under threat to clear themselves. They need to stalk and they need to kill. And I'm assuming they're trying to clear themselves as not being cult, rather than being town. That just won't happen. Somebody who we think is cult should be lynched, no "let me live for two more days and I'll prove it". The Benmage situation is not that situation. Well, it's not that situation for anybody but AV.

2) "At random" - Benmage isn't killing at random. Assuming he's an investigator, he is town. You may disagree about how pro-town his action is being, but he's not going to be able to go for murderer because the win condition is distinctly out of reach. Someone could investigate him on Night 4 and make sure he's laundered. At which stage it will be N8 before he could win. We can off him, if necessary, well before then.
Similiarly, others aren't going to be killing at random if this ever did come up, if they are town, it's a vig. That's not random.

Lets move on and actually start scum hunting, but lynching El Goosuki.

@ Benmage - Have you responded to why you won't name 4 potential targets. I think that would benefit town, and do away with the argument that you are just hoping there's a murder tomorrow for you to claim was yours.

The bolded is a damn good point. Benmage has exhibited a lot of generally scummy behavior already, and we're only taking it on his word and threat that he's a townie, because it's strange for a cultist to lie about wanting to murder someone. How do we know he isn't hoping for there to be a murder for him to claim tomorrow, as Seacore says?

[Wraith]

@Seacore: This is the post that set off alarm bells:

I think Benmage should definately NOT tell us who he stalked, and if he is an investigator he should PROVE IT by going ahead with the kill. Firstly, he may have stalked a cultist or the murderer. Secondly, town are (hopefully) going to be rezzing those they believe to be town and in danger anyway.

Thirdly, by BM not telling us who the target is, that forces cult to rez all their members who heard noises tonight if they wanna be completely safe. This consumes both their rez kits and their night actions.

BM: go through with the kill. Don't tell us your target.

I'm sick of the BM issue being an opportunity for cultists to look town by going "OMG DON'T YOU DARE KILL ANYONE HOW DARE YOU IN A GAME OF MAFIA"

I'm not sure about El Goosuki, it's just as ridiculous for me that cult would claim that as a night action and put themselves out there like that.

Vote: Kunkstar

He has been going with the voting flow the entire game, plus I think he was trying to score town points with the BM issue while trying to get BM to reveal his target to benefit cult.

First of all, there's the advocating of the "Benmage kills someone at random and keeps it a secret who he'll kill" plan. I wouldn't be surprised if I went back and found that he was an advocate of the "Benmage kills Fate to confirm towniness" plan too.

Then there's the offhand remark about how the El Goosuki wagon is meh, which is the kind of attitude I expect from a scumbuddy trying to defend their buddy while at the same time staying under the radar.

[Benmage]

2) "At random" - Benmage isn't killing at random. Assuming he's an investigator, he is town. You may disagree about how pro-town his action is being, but he's not going to be able to go f

or murderer because the win condition is distinctly out of reach.

Someone could investigate him on Night 4 and make sure he's laundered. A

t which stage it will be N8 before he could win.

We can off him, if necessary, well before then.

Finally we meet logic.

@ Benmage - Have you responded to why you won't name 4 potential targets. I think that would benefit town, and do away with the argument that you are just hoping there's a murder tomorrow for you to claim was yours.

Negative I've been posting not from a computer since like pg 74ish if I recall correctly....I just got home and soon on my agenda tonight is to go back through those pages and properly post/cover anything I missed.

[Benmage]

The bolded is a damn good point. Benmage has exhibited a lot of generally scummy behavior already, and we're only taking it on his word and threat that he's a townie, because it's strange for a cultist to lie about wanting to murder someone.

How do we know he isn't hoping for there to be a murder for him to claim tomorrow

, as Seacore says?

Lol grasping at straws much?

Benmage: continuously baffled at the creative concoctions people convince themselves over seeing the blatant truth.

[Furpants_Tom]

Tom, I don't recall seeing 'precedence' as part of your argument before, but I'll admit I have been skimming.

No, you're right. It's an unnecessary rhetorical flourish, and I usually hate "thin end of the wedge" arguments. My bad.

As for the rest of your post, you're still thinking night strategy, as is everyone else. Which is valid, but it's currently day-time. Think about what town need to do during the day, and it should be obvious why the BenMage bandwagon is worth riding.

[Benmage]

Think about what town need to do during the day, and it should be obvious why the BenMage bandwagon is worth riding.

Really? Because:

Think about what town need to do during the day

Is my defense

[Seacore]

@ wraith, thanks, I can see your point now. (on the tnm front). However, I agree that Benmage should not declare who his target is, because if he's right that it's scum, it'll not work, and if he's wrong, the kill will be more likely to go through, so that sucks.
And also, please stop saying the kill is at random, it isn't.

@ Benmage. I see no reason for you to not post a list of potential targets. I said 4, but 5 or 6 would be equally fine. If you are unwilling to do so, please state precisely why.

[Plum]

Plum, et al:

While I'm down with not lynching Ben because he's not cult I'm more than a little baffled at all of you (but ESPECIALLY you since we talked about this earlier) aren't saying its time for the first ACTUAL useful murder to happen. It's early but how are you not on the pain-train?

Which, of course, is of special interest considering while you CAN say Wraith 'wasn't scumhunting' he sure oozes town to me in that special Fate-way in wanting Benmage dead to rights once he said he was taking his ball and doing what he wants with it.

AND SPEAKING OF PAIN TRAIN

It might be time to think about culling some doom via useful and planned murders.

There has to be a way to do it right and I may need some help planning it out.

1. I'm sorry, but playing like Fate does not equal Town to me. If you read my case-thing, it's the fact that he was inconsistent and used scummy arguments to further his case and refused to listen to logic. He just screamed and followed Fate. It seemed like a ploy to catch Fate's coattails because everyone thought Fate was uber-Town partly for the reason you stated. There was too much opportunism and scum motivation for the way he said he wanted Benmage dead than Townieness. By far. In my humble.

2. Sure, we can plan out some Murders. I'd say we start with someone we're decently comfortable with; he/she popcorns to someone he's comfortable with, we get about - four? five? no more, as you-ll see below - players together. If you're chosen you have to play, I think - and there's the tricky part, making sure everyone is okay enough with this that there'll be sufficient pressure to follow through. Then each player in turn posts three players they're interested in Stalking. Then everyone who has Forensic Tools is ordered to use them on the pool of potential Stalkees. This will make it harder for Cult to successfully use Resuscitation against the eventual Murders. When Night comes, Stalkers stalk one player from their list, chosen at random (hopefully this will minimize chances of too many overlapping Stalk/Murder actions while keeping Cult from knowing who will be targeted and whether they can combat it with Ward while also ensuring decent chances that there are as many extra Murders as chosen players and we can start clearing.

G-d help me but suddenly I'm liking Seacore a hell of a lot .