Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Seacore]

Think about what town need to do during the day, and it should be obvious why the BenMage bandwagon is worth riding.

I agree with you. I think during the day, the town need to scum hunt, not try to mitigate a town member's night action.

I would like you to present some scum cases.

Because assuming that we were wrong on Fate and RC, and assuming that LB had the insanity point by innocent means, if we go through with the Benmage lynch like you want, it'll be Day 3 with at least 4, likely 5 investigator deaths before you start looking for cultists.

And a wagon like Benmage's isn't drawing cultists one way or the other, because we're almost certain Benmage isn't one of them.

[Seacore]

G-d help me but suddenly I'm liking Seacore a hell of a lot .

I win everybody over eventually.

And I don't just mean that tongue in cheek, games like cult of darkness and shadows, and PYP 1, I was a popular early lynch, managed to talk my way out of it, and by the end of it was obv-town. I often just come across scummy while I'm floundering on day 1. It's something that I need to work on.

[totallynotmafia]

@BM: DO NOT CLAIM A LIST OF TARGETS.

@Seacore: how is him claiming a list of targets in any way beneficial? Besides beneficial to scum I mean.

@Seacore: This is the post that set off alarm bells:

I think Benmage should definately NOT tell us who he stalked, and if he is an investigator he should PROVE IT by going ahead with the kill. Firstly, he may have stalked a cultist or the murderer. Secondly, town are (hopefully) going to be rezzing those they believe to be town and in danger anyway.

Thirdly, by BM not telling us who the target is, that forces cult to rez all their members who heard noises tonight if they wanna be completely safe. This consumes both their rez kits and their night actions.

BM: go through with the kill. Don't tell us your target.

I'm sick of the BM issue being an opportunity for cultists to look town by going "OMG DON'T YOU DARE KILL ANYONE HOW DARE YOU IN A GAME OF MAFIA"

I'm not sure about El Goosuki, it's just as ridiculous for me that cult would claim that as a night action and put themselves out there like that.

Vote: Kunkstar

He has been going with the voting flow the entire game, plus I think he was trying to score town points with the BM issue while trying to get BM to reveal his target to benefit cult.

First of all, there's the advocating of the "Benmage kills someone at random and keeps it a secret who he'll kill" plan. I wouldn't be surprised if I went back and found that he was an advocate of the "Benmage kills Fate to confirm towniness" plan too.

Then there's the offhand remark about how the El Goosuki wagon is meh, which is the kind of attitude I expect from a scumbuddy trying to defend their buddy while at the same time staying under the radar.

It's not somebody at random, if Benmage is telling the truth he has stalked somebody because he believes they are scum at this stage, thus he has performed some level of scum-hunting. You obviously haven't been paying much attention because yes, I was advocating BM kill Fate yesterday with Fate being rezzed as a way to catch out BM if he was lying about the stalk. I noticed you were also completely misrepping that at the end of yesterday too.

Oh and I'm cult with El Goosuki because I actually bothered to think outside the box as to why someone would act like that rather than just jump on the vote. Good one.

[Vi]

Vote Count:

*whisper whisper*

El Goosuki (4)

~ Seacore, SpyreX, kunkstar7, Wraith

MagnaofIllusion (4)

~ Trilobite, VP Baltar, Benmage, VasudeVa

Benmage (3)

~

Wraith,

AurorusVox, Furcolow, Furpants_Tom

Furpants_Tom (2)

~ Nicodemus, nopointinactingup

Wraith (2)

~ Plum, manho

kunkstar7 (1)

~ totallynotmafia

Not Voting (9):

Andrius, Baby Spice, El Goosuki, Feysal, hitogoroshi,

kunkstar7,

MagnaofIllusion,

totallynotmafia,

Triglav, Wickedestjr,

manho,

xvart

Dispatch Order:

ReaperCharlie (13)

~ xvart, VP Baltar, kunkstar7, totallynotmafia, Plum, MagnaofIllusion, Seacore, SpyreX, Nicodemus, VasudeVa, nopointinactingup, AurorusVox, manho

Fate (7)

~

Furcolow,

VP Baltar, kunkstar7, MagnaofIllusion, Seacore,

VasudeVa,

nopointinactingup, Trilobite, manho

--With 25 alive, it takes 13 to secure a lynch and/or dispatch one of the Soulless.
--There is no deadline as of yet.

---So I'm totally doing vote counts at night because I don't have time in the mornings.

----

The madding crowd began to dissolve into heated dispute over who should meet their untimely end. Above the din of the mortal frustration, one could almost hear overtones of a laughing, an unearthly snickering coming from somewhere above. And even though nobody acknowledged it, judging from the way the lost ones began to work themselves into a frenzy with arm gestures and raised voices it seemed like each member of the impassioned mob was becoming infuriated by the barely-perceived taunts.

Eyes darted to the ones responsible for at least part of their travail. ReaperCharlie was standing some distance away, in precisely the same stance he was when everyone left yesterday. He was still showing vital signs, breathing and not terribly pale, but his eyes stared through whoever dared meet his gaze and his limbs were heavy as death.

The inability to get a vocal response from him finally drove the mob to murderous intent. One of the taller bystanders grabbed a tuft of Charlie's hair, two others clutched his shoulders, and with the shoulders jerked in an opposite direction to his head the abomination fell with an apathetic

crack

.

A wonderfully therapeutic action, but not nearly satisfying given that he was already no threat to anyone. Somewhat let down by this, the investigators returned to their normal activity, back to muttering again.

--- ReaperCharlie ---

Insanity Count:

0 ---

Dispatched

during The Second Day.

[Seacore]

@Seacore: how is him claiming a list of targets in any way beneficial? Besides beneficial to scum I mean.

.....

Oh and I'm cult with El Goosuki because I actually bothered to think outside the box as to why someone would act like that rather than just jump on the vote. Good one.

Because of two things, which have already been spelled out, but lets go through it

a) It will put to bed any shred of Benmage being cultist. If he lists some potential targets, he decreases to pool of deaths he can claim were by his hands.

b) It will increase the chance, if he actually lists cultists, that cultists will waste their actions (not their rez kits as you suggest) on rezzing their buddies.

[Wraith]

Seacore speaks sense. Now, why doesn't Benmage do this?

[Furpants_Tom]

I agree with you. I think during the day, the town need to scum hunt, not try to mitigate a town member's night action.

You clearly don't agree with me. Quit trying so hard to look town. Consider what information we need to gather

before

we can reliably make plans for night, what information we need

before

we scum-hunt, and most importantly, what daytime strategies we need to use to actually get that information.

I don't hate your plan of asking for a list; but you need to follow that thought with due consideration of what it will take to convince BenMage to provide it. Asking nicely simply does not work on everyone.

[Seacore]

EPWOP, oops I meant to respond to the second half of the quote.

El Goosuki is guilty because it's so easy to say "ooh this game is so confusing, I must have picked a poor night action by accident" And that's a great way to justify not having warded or picked up other equipment when you were passing fetishes, or warding your buddies.
I think El Goosuki forgot that one of their heads explicitly commented on Hito's helpful guide.

In short - Town El Goosuki, with three heads trying to work out an appropriate night action, should have remembered Hito's guide that they commented was helpful.
Cult El Goosuki decided that claiming confused would be a good method to hide their actual night action, and forgot they had fingerprints on Hito's guide.

Why would Town remember the guide and Cult forget the guide. Because the guide was meant for town, someone who was genuinely confused and trying to work out a good action should have gone to the guide. Cult discussed with themselves and the rest of the cult what good actions were, and screwed up on the fake claim.

[Wraith]

The town's clearly not going to get behind a lynch-threat against Benmage. It's the only option we have.

[totallynotmafia]

@Seacore: how is him claiming a list of targets in any way beneficial? Besides beneficial to scum I mean.

.....

Oh and I'm cult with El Goosuki because I actually bothered to think outside the box as to why someone would act like that rather than just jump on the vote. Good one.

Because of two things, which have already been spelled out, but lets go through it

a) It will put to bed any shred of Benmage being cultist. If he lists some potential targets, he decreases to pool of deaths he can claim were by his hands.

b) It will increase the chance, if he actually lists cultists, that cultists will waste their actions (not their rez kits as you suggest) on rezzing their buddies.

a) If BM is cult and claims the murder of somebody else he has just outed himself to the investigator who did that murder.

b) What? This decreases the amount of rez kits cult will have to use, as currently EVERBODY is a potential target.

Creating a list of potential targets just benefits cult.

[totallynotmafia]

EBWOP: everybody who heard noise is a potential target

[Furpants_Tom]

b) What? This decreases the amount of rez kits cult will have to use, as currently EVERBODY is a potential target.

Everybody remains a potential target; because there's at least one other murderer on the loose, and the cult will be well aware that any noises they heard last night may well be other townies planning a kill based on their D1 reads - a popular, but generally bad idea. They're going to be trying to cover all the noise anyway, this way we at least get some useful confirmation of BenMage's reliability, and an indication of his scumreads, in case someone else murders him tonight.

[Furcolow]

@Furc's idea to not grave rob

That's stupid.
We need the flips. We need the flips desperately. That is the biggest tool in the scum hunting tool box.

More el goosuki votes please.

@Wraith, why is there a relationship between tnm and el goo? Forgive me, as I've been skimming

why is it stupid
why do we need multiple flips? we know LB is cult
are you claiming cult WONT ward the graves?

[Seacore]

Tom's point is right, they are already targets of other potential murderers/investigators out there. Benmage outing himself to a potential murderer is not really what the town wants, we'd like Benmage to out himself to us. What's the murderer going to say "uh, that wasn't benmage, that was me doing the murder, lynch benmage" that also doesn't work because maybe it was a double murder.

@Furc's idea to not grave rob

That's stupid.
We need the flips. We need the flips desperately. That is the biggest tool in the scum hunting tool box.

More el goosuki votes please.

@Wraith, why is there a relationship between tnm and el goo? Forgive me, as I've been skimming

why is it stupid
why do we need multiple flips? we know LB is cult
are you claiming cult WONT ward the graves?

I'm so tempted to not bother talking to you furc.

We don't know LB is cult, please explain to me how we know that's the case?
If cult ward graves they are wasting an action (great for town) and are gaining another insanity on top of their ritual (great for town)
I want to know if LB was cult, I want to know if RC was cult, I want to know if who we lynch tonight is cult, I wouldn't mind find out whether Fate is cult.

[Furcolow]

how else would he have 1 insanity
them warding a single grave can greatly muddy the waters. I disagree that it would be great for town.
I'm fairly sure Fate/LB were both cult
I'm sorry you disagree with me
Fairly sure RC was town

[Seacore]

And this is precisely why we need the flips because we all disagree with each other, we need mod confirmed flips.

LB could have stalked either N0 or N1, LB could have been passed a fetish by the scum, LB could have used occult books (although granted, not a great move)

I'm the opposite of you, I think we'll get town flips from Fate and LB, and a scum flip from RC.

If we rob all 4 graves tonight, scum would have to burn 4 of the 7 actions to block them all. Otherwise we at least get some flips and we need them, or do you propose to just assume we lynch the right people?

[manho]

i'll agree with benmage not revealing his target then.

Wraith is still cult not wanting to be murdered.

undecided on el goosuki yet.

[Seacore]

i'll agree with benmage not revealing his target then.

What about revealing a list of potential targets?

[Benmage]

That catchup thing might have to wait till tomorrow.

Lets move past this list discussion. Let me first be able to formulate a proper scum list via some more indepth proper scum hunting and then we can talk about a list...any list at the moment would be largely superficial mixed in with gut reads.

[Furcolow]

And this is precisely why we need the flips because we all disagree with each other, we need mod confirmed flips.

LB could have stalked either N0 or N1, LB could have been passed a fetish by the scum, LB could have used occult books (although granted, not a great move)

I'm the opposite of you, I think we'll get town flips from Fate and LB, and a scum flip from RC.

If we rob all 4 graves tonight, scum would have to burn 4 of the 7 actions to block them all. Otherwise we at least get some flips and we need them, or do you propose to just assume we lynch the right people?

lynch? if people skimp
stalk and kill to confirm town? NP
single-vigges-for-the-win

[Seacore]

Furc, that's a terrible idea.

I'm going to stop talking about it now, unless a bunch of people start agreeing with you, but it's just a horrible idea.

[manho]

i'll agree with benmage not revealing his target then.

What about revealing a list of potential targets?

not at all. let's the cults guess who'll die and who needed the res.

[xvart]

If you believe Benmage to be town (regardless of Murderer in Training ambitions or lack thereof) it is in the best interest of the town to allow his kill to go through. A Murderer in Training (especially an outted one) would have the same objective now as a town vig.

Vote: El Goosuki

xvart.

[manho]

If you believe Benmage to be town (regardless of Murderer in Training ambitions or lack thereof) it is in the best interest of the town to allow his kill to go through. A Murderer in Training (especially an outted one) would have the same objective now as a town vig.

yes, and he will be target of other murderer later.

[Furpants_Tom]

If you believe Benmage to be town (regardless of Murderer in Training ambitions or lack thereof) it is in the best interest of the town to allow his kill to go through. A Murderer in Training (especially an outted one) would have the same objective now as a town vig.

xvart.

Call me a Stalinist control freak if you will, but don't you want some kind of a say in BenMage's vig? Is everyone really happy to let Captain Whacky vote someone off the island given that he's only just putting together a scum list right now? Does anyone genuinely believe this kill is more likely to hit scum than town?