Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[I Am Innocent]

Carry on peeps. And remember, Vote for IAI (for best new player) in 2010!!!

Self campaigning FTL.

[Mina]

Fuck. I've been having Internet problems today, and I have to leave tonight. It's too late for a LrdWhyt wagon.

Nikanor's replacement post came across as townish. Damn, though. I wish he was still around to answer questions. He never even reacted to the Dry-Fit flip. And welcome to the game, Thor.

Ack. Um...of the viable wagons...

VOTE: Baby Spice

I'll be honest. I'm not super-confident in this vote (BS is mostly on my suspect list by process of elimination), and don't think the "town" slip was that meaningful. I don't have strong scumreads yet. Elmo preempted me to the point that Red's defence that his play is scummier than normal

because it's a sixteen player mountainous game

is utterly ludicrous, but Red has said stuff recently that looks townish. Part of it is that since I'm behind, I'm playing more by general impressions, so maybe I'm missing the nuances of just what Red is misrepping in his back-and-forth with Sotty.

But I'll move my vote to Red tomorrow if a Baby Spice wagon doesn't take off. Red has given off a mix of towntells and scumtells, while Percy is giving me a strong gut town read.

Would be happy with a LrdWhyt wagon, if people miraculously jumped on him. IKD's interactions with Dry-Fit work well as distancing.

Kaleidoscope, why do you think Percy is scummier than Red Coyote? The only time I see you mention him before Benmage suggests his lynch is when you answer his questions and say that he's prone to OMGUS--and frame it as if you think he's a townie. Just repeating, "Percy is scum, lynch Percy and Red, why isn't Percy dead yet?" is rhetoric.

This time, sell me the

Percy

lynch in one paragraph or more.

Sorry, I forgot you'd explained your RC read because I remembered that wall as being mostly defence. That said:

1) I still don't like that your longest post of the game is 70% defence, and you only explained your read when asked on it.

2) I can see where you're coming from, but your reasons for suspecting Red could be better articulated:

My first RC vote was indeed random, but his way of posting never even convinced me to remove my vote from him. Post #55 of him is a simple post of making someone suspicious with hardly anything to go on, and in #60 he again joins a vote of someone else, potentially hoping for a bandwagon vote. (First Sotty, then Nikanor, all with very weak evidence for doing so). That was reason enough to keep my vote on RC for a while. Then in post #169, he even throws a half ass defense for dry-fit for no reason whatsoever. While in my eyes, dry-fits action is hell of a lot more scummy, RC reaction towards it is even weirder considering he wasn't even related to the action, yet defends the one player scummier then him.

So you suspect him because you think his votes were for weak reasons? Can you be more specific about what in particular you thought was weak about his points against Sotty and Nikanor? Also, why did you find Dry-Fit scummy? You don't explain it in that post.

And wait, you find Dry-Fit's action (do you mean his interactions with IKD and jason, or is there something else I'm missing) a hell of a lot scummier...but RC's reaction is weirder. Can you just clarify which did you find more suspicious: DF's action, or RC's defence of DF's action?

=============================================================

Percy has 6 votes, L-2...RC has 3, L-5....with the deadline this close the logical conclusion is to lynch Percy. Stop fighting the system, prove you aren't the sites newest biggest VI and vote Percy.

@Thor Vote Percy. Time is of the essence. I am confirmed town, so just follow me on this one.

Thor, prove you can think for yourself and vote for who you personally think is scummiest of Baby Spice, Red Coyote, and Percy. Ignore Benmage's attempt to bully you into doing what he says. I know I've been fooled by Percy as scum before, but the Percy case isn't 20% as good as Benmage thinks it is.

Benmage, how about we have an avatar/sig bet on whether or not Percy turns out to be scum at the end of this game? (The terms of this bet only apply if we're both town, obviously.) Whoever's wrong has to use the sig and avatar of the other player's choosing for a month.

Because I am starting to find it really annoying that you're always 100% confident in every single one of your opinions, in every game, even when the arguments and logic you're using to support your opinions aren't always very good. I don't mean to be harsh, but learn to rein your ego in a bit more. </rant>

Also, given that I'm next on your suspect list along Nikanor/Thor, I doubt you'll pay much attention to what I'm saying. But I just thought of something that makes Percy logically unlikely to be scum. Re: your argument that Percy's only pushing easy targets...um...leaving aside that he attacked Sotty early on, why isn't Percy pushing a Red Coyote lynch, the most viable counterwagon to him and easiest target of all? He's set himself up for ages to vote RC. Instead, Percy suddenly backing away from the only viable wagon other than himself, and is

criticizing

the Red Coyote wagon.

Seriously, to anyone voting Percy, explain to me what his scum motivation would be for that.

[Mina]

EBWOP: In all fairness, Nikanor

kind of

reacted to the DF flip, albeit only by saying Jason looked better for his reaction (goddammit, I wish Nikanor was here to explain this more).

...shit. I was supposed to leave an hour ago. Mafia eats my soul.

Note to self for when I have more time: look at all the people who were linking players to Dry-Fit

before

Dry-Fit's flip. I know jason made a case for Furc being DF's buddy before the flip, but dropped it...although I think jason is town.

[Elmo]

Because I am starting to find it really annoying that you're always 100% confident in every single one of your opinions, in every game, even when the arguments and logic you're using to support your opinions aren't always very good. I don't mean to be harsh, but learn to rein your ego in a bit more. </rant>

Ahaha, good luck with that.

If your hesitation on my case against Fur is simply because I didn't lay out quotes for you, then that's just a breakdown in communication. One needs only look at Fur's voting record, contradicting scumlists, and petulant behavior.

How do you get that from what I said? I'm not hesitating, I'm saying

your case sucks

, and you're not even trying to argue with me. If you were town, your immediate reaction would be, no, my case is good, Fur is scum and this is why. Even in this response, you're doing continuing to do precisely the same thing - HOW IS BEING PETULANT SUSPICIOUS? Seriously, what twisted chain of logic leads to that conclusion? You're just spewing buzzwords and praying.

I'd probably go as far as to say that you'd be the only player here that hasn't picked up on it (if someone else in the game has said they value Fur's play and/or they have trouble understanding why someone would be put off by his play, then I'll stand corrected).

No, Red, you don't get to say everyone's fine with your stance because no-one's disagreed with it yet. If everyone's singing to your tune, why isn't there this giant wagon of doom on Fur right now? Hint: because people aren't convinced by you. If it's so obvious, why can't you just spit it out?

Either that or you're just deliberately giving me a hard time about it. It could very well be the latter though, because I do not think our playstyles or personalities mesh together very well at all.

lol, do not try to write this off as playstyle. This is not about playstyle; this is not personal. This is about you being unable to explain the stated suspicion of Fur that you used to push a counter-Dry-fit wagon.

[Benmage]

Because I am starting to find it really annoying that you're always 100% confident in every single one of your opinions, in every game, even when the arguments and logic you're using to support your opinions aren't always very good. I don't mean to be harsh, but learn to rein your ego in a bit more. </rant>

I'm only 100% right when I'm 100% right. Show me otherwise. Now why don't you act less obv scum and put your vote somewhere useful instead of a pathetic VI.

[Benmage]

Seriously, to anyone voting Percy, explain to me what his scum motivation would be for that.

How blatant do you expect Percy to be? Would you like him to quote his role PM for you?

Why can you wiggle onto a BS wagon with little belief in it, yet are defiant to lynch Percy and demand a strong illustrated case. Maybe 6 days ago you could've asked this. Now..you lost your chance. Adhere to the higher authority, me. Cause you know I'm town. I know I'm town. And go with me. You might not like the blunt style I play, but its damn effective and you know it.

I'm not gonna accept a no lynch at this point, and 0...thats right...ZERO other wagons have a shot at being successful at this point. I'm salivating to see Furc hung, but attempting that switch would be detrimental to the town. Any attempted wagon switching this late would be detrimental to the town. Stop fighting the town, and start helping. Vote Percy.

[Benmage]

Re: your argument that Percy's only pushing easy targets...um...leaving aside that he attacked Sotty early on, why isn't Percy pushing a Red Coyote lynch, the most viable counterwagon to him and easiest target of all? He's set himself up for ages to vote RC. Instead, Percy suddenly backing away from the only viable wagon other than himself, and is

criticizing

the Red Coyote wagon.

Seriously, to anyone voting Percy, explain to me what his scum motivation would be for that.

Let me break this down for you again. Because I like Percy. He's a smart cat. So for those of you who get stuck a few steps behind here's the simple version:

RC has no chance of being lynched today. Too many smart town people recognize that he's town. Therefore there will never be a sudden late "oh crap need a lynch" surge onto him. However if enough people piddle-dick around you might have the support for a surge VI lynch.

Percy recognizes this.

[Benmage]

Percy has 6 votes, L-2...RC has 3, L-5....with the deadline this close the logical conclusion is to lynch Percy. Stop fighting the system, prove you aren't the sites newest biggest VI and vote Percy.

@Thor Vote Percy. Time is of the essence. I am confirmed town, so just follow me on this one.

Thor, prove you can think for yourself and vote for who you personally think is scummiest of Baby Spice, Red Coyote, and Percy. Ignore Benmage's attempt to bully you into doing what he says. I know I've been fooled by Percy as scum before, but the Percy case isn't 20% as good as Benmage thinks it is.

Thor also broke down the speed in which he can catch-up in a game. Seeing as that will be after the deadline, I wanted his vote to be utilized. Something you apparently do not.

There's obvious reasons why your in the next top 3 lynches. You pickin up on it?

[Elmo]

ahhahahahhahrthathahaha

[Benmage]

Elmo,

you gonna lynch Percy, or accept a no lynch?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Kaleidoscope, why do you think Percy is scummier than Red Coyote? The only time I see you mention him before Benmage suggests his lynch is when you answer his questions and say that he's prone to OMGUS--and frame it as if you think he's a townie. Just repeating, "Percy is scum, lynch Percy and Red, why isn't Percy dead yet?" is rhetoric.

This time, sell me the

Percy

lynch in one paragraph or more.

I'm not good with orders, sorry. You can put that request up your ass. I don't think Percy is scummier then Redcoyote, but I want a second lynch today, and Percy has the biggest wagon. If either dies tomorrow, I will campaign for the other tomorrow.

Sorry, I forgot you'd explained your RC read because I remembered that wall as being mostly defence. That said:

1) I still don't like that your longest post of the game is 70% defence, and you only explained your read when asked on it.

2) I can see where you're coming from, but your reasons for suspecting Red could be better articulated:

My first RC vote was indeed random, but his way of posting never even convinced me to remove my vote from him. Post #55 of him is a simple post of making someone suspicious with hardly anything to go on, and in #60 he again joins a vote of someone else, potentially hoping for a bandwagon vote. (First Sotty, then Nikanor, all with very weak evidence for doing so). That was reason enough to keep my vote on RC for a while. Then in post #169, he even throws a half ass defense for dry-fit for no reason whatsoever. While in my eyes, dry-fits action is hell of a lot more scummy, RC reaction towards it is even weirder considering he wasn't even related to the action, yet defends the one player scummier then him.

So you suspect him because you think his votes were for weak reasons? Can you be more specific about what in particular you thought was weak about his points against Sotty and Nikanor? Also, why did you find Dry-Fit scummy? You don't explain it in that post.[/quote]He hops on as a second vote twice in a span of 5 posts, really early in the game, when there isn't much to go on from yet. I don't see that as a good way to help the town. Dry fit was scummy because of his tunnel vision on jason, when 2 other people did exactly the same yet received no attention

And wait, you find Dry-Fit's action (do you mean his interactions with IKD and jason, or is there something else I'm missing) a hell of a lot scummier...but RC's reaction is weirder. Can you just clarify which did you find more suspicious: DF's action, or RC's defence of DF's action?

Does it matter?

DF became scummy because of his action towards jason.
RC became more scummy because of his odd defense for DF, which made zero sense, adding to his already scummy case thus far. That DF turned up scum doesn't help his case one bit.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

fix my quote tags plz.

[Percy]

Well looks like I'm going to be the lynch for today. I'm still not scum, and I am mentally visualising Hannity's face when he sees my flip, and anticipating his backpedalling tomorrow. Or maybe he'll be all "I ALWAYS LYNCH SCUM I AM AWESOME HHHHNNNNNGGGG" or whatever.

I've been caught up in my job, so I can't think straight right now. But I sincerely encourage you guys to look over what I said if you lynch me before I get a chance to post tomorrow morning. In particular, Hannity has been defending Baby Spice simply because he's so confident in his scumread on me, but I hope the case is revisited tomorrow after I'm gone.

Need sleep. Back soon. If you don't lynch me in 24 hours, I will deliver more content in those 24 hours. There's also still enough time to lynch someone else, and those acting like my lynch is a foregone conclusion should be looked at tomorrow.

[Percy]

And I just can't help myself, but:

I'm not good with orders, sorry.

Sure you are! Just not when they come from Mina, amirite?

KScope deserves a good look-in, even though he was on the DF lynching wagon (only because he wanted a lynch rather than a no lynch, mind you).

srsly, look at page 2 of his ISO, it's hilariously lazy.

[Lrdwhyt]

I do not understand Lrdwhyt's stance on I Am Innocent. Also,

Here are my thoughts on a few people. Not much, and it only includes the first 10 pages or so because I got sort of tired of taking notes, but oh well.

You also said, before:

Alright. I finally finished reading the thread..

This was on page 14.

So I don't understand why the analysis you went with in the last post focused on the first 10 pages, if you already had enough of an understanding of Dry-fit to say "I am considering voting Dry-fit but I want see him post more first". And you said you had finished reading up to page 14...?

Let's just say I'm looking forward to your next post

What that means is that I read the whole thread, but stopped taking notes after page 10 or so.

My 'next post' will actually be next post, tomorrow. I'm a bit behind. Will say that Percy doesn't seem all that scummy, though.

[Benmage]

There's also still enough time to lynch someone else, and those acting like my lynch is a foregone conclusion should be looked at tomorrow.

That'd be me. Those suggesting otherwise should be looked at.

And you shouldn't worry Perc. If people follow my every word, all bases are covered:

Those you don't want here in lylo:
-BS
-Furc
^In that order

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

No, In general, Percy .

Just check out my game history and you'll see I'm a oneliner king.

[RedCoyote]

Welcome, Thor. Here's a sum up to the Dry-fit lynch from my perspective. I break it down by who I think had sincere interests in lynching Dry-fit and who did not. I touch on everyone at some point. The past few pages have mostly been arguments between the idea of lynching me, Percy, or Baby Spice.

---

fitz, Mina, Sotty, Fur ... they're all effectively saying, in one way or another, that Percy is town because they feel it in their gut. fitz, when pressed, is unable to tell us why he feels that Percy is town. Mina has admitted to as much. Elmo is blatantly ignoring Percy in favor of his narrow focus on me over some technical issue with my play.

why isn't Percy pushing a Red Coyote lynch, the most viable counterwagon to him and easiest target of all? He's set himself up for ages to vote RC. Instead, Percy suddenly backing away from the only viable wagon other than himself, and is

criticizing

the Red Coyote wagon.

Seriously, to anyone voting Percy, explain to me what his scum motivation would be for that.

He doesn't think he'll be lynched? I would imagine, regardless of his alignment, he'd feel the pressure to switch his vote, but the later he does it, the more sincere it looks.

[havingfitz]

But the deadline is coming up, are you willing to comprise to get a lynch?

I am willing to compromise (assuming that’s what you meant when you said ‘comprise’ again) to a degree...as long as it’s on someone at least near the top of my suspcions. That said, my hop to you has not received any support and it should be on one of the wagon frontrunners. A quick ISO of Baby Spice does not trigger any suspicions for me so she’s not an option for me. Furcolow and IAI are not getting any attention so that leaves me back at RedCoyote.

I continue to not have any suspicions of note towards Percy so he will not be getting my vote today. I looked over RC’s case on Percy to see what excellent case he (RC) has made on him in light of his continued desire for me to explain my read on Percy. Speaking of my read on Percy....this really annoys me:

fitz, when pressed, is unable to tell us why he feels that Percy is town.

Show me where I have said Percy is town? Don’t confuse a lack of suspicions with a town read...he’s just not high enough on my scumlist atm to bother with. And don’t assume I am unable to do anything. Your little attempt at reverse psychology mixed with misquoting me is noted. As I said above...Sotty and the others I suspect don’t seem to be going anywhere which leaves me back with you.

UNVOTE: VOTE: RedCoyote

[Benmage]

Well.

Unvote vote No lynch

This is clearly what this fail town wants.

Apparently "Oh crap I was wrong." and "Really, I'm town" suffice for town tells these days

[Sotty7]

If you really think that we're getting a no lynch today then you may as well keep your vote where it is. Throwing your toys outta your pram isn't helping anyone and is preventing a last minute surge like you say.

Unofficial count at this point

Percy - 5 (RedCoyote, I Am Innocent, Locke Lamora, JasonT1981, KaleiÐoscøpe)
RedCoyote - 4 (Furcolow, Elmo, Sotty7, Fitz)
Baby Spice - 3 (Nikanor, Percy, Mina)

Anyone not voting for one of these three needs to do so now.

Lrdwhyt

that includes you. Deadline is

today

.

[Sotty7]

Oh dear, ignore that deadline is tomorrow... Still, it's sooooon!

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

ugh... c'mon town... are we seriously going to stall this?

Unvote Vote: Redcoyote

[Thor665]

tl:dr - I am awesome, witty, and clever
Also I suspect Dry Fit and Red Coyote with a heaping helping of IAI on the side.
Elmo, Oso, furcolow, and jasonT are all obv. town.

===============================================================================
I probably would have merrily followed Benmage on his pressure of I Am Innocent - if nothing else I Am Innocent pursuing Benmage for suggesting a no lynch *after* Benmage had already figured out it wasn't a great idea is pretty silly and would deserve an opening vote.

Pretty offput by RC's shift to Nikanor/Thor665 over IAI calling/not calling Benmage scummy. Seems a total shift away from the heart of the topic of active discussion and a dodge for his odd play at that point.

Post 67 from Percy is saying a lot of what I'm thinking.

Hey guys, my name is jasonT1981, I'm Town! You can tell I'm town because I'm complaining about anti-town stuff without doing anything about it. I'm Town!

Elmo is super obvious town.

Furcolow is not drmyshottyizsick - but good gawd. *sigh*

Mina is <3 to me. $5 predicts a vague Mina meltdown between the page I'm on and the current one.

Furcolow suggesting it's scummy for IAI to have a townread after 70 posts...though I agree with attacking IAI I can't tell if this shows that I'm also terrible because I do fast town reads or if furcolow has a very slow radar. Since it's hip to put down furcolow I'll just presume I'm awesome and move forward.

Considering the Day .5 flip it's pretty clear Oso is town with the attack and counter attack he just had. iamkingdavid is pretty terribad with the contnued push on Benmage - I can't tell if he's just VI or if he's scum who thinks the wagon has legs still if given a push. But, seriously, backing Mongoose's play? Erk.

129-137 from furc is hilarious! He chides someone because in "games like this" town reads should be kept to oneself, which suggests he has an opinion on the setup and optimal play...then 14 minutes later he's double-checking to see if a day-cop claim was serious. He then goes into a discussion with Elmo about protecting PRs Oh man, my stomach hurts now.

When jasonT does itI find it less funny. (when iamkingdavid joins the show I start sobbing slightly)

Didn't Nikanor trick me into this thing via playerlist strength?

Yay, Elmo comes to make sense of things...
Boo, jasonT votes Elmo for saying sensible things...WTF?

Boom, RedCoyote is on the scum list! "You're so dumb as to not understand that there are no PRs...only scum would be this dumb, ergo you are scum...because, y'know, town are never dumb" <---and oh gawd I would love to play in the game where this was actually true. In any case, obvious logical fallacy and easy mislynch option is obvious. Also, also, he manages to ignore how two other players were operating in the same mistaken concept and votes the one who did it second...because...?

I'd be voting RC at this stage.

KaleiÐoscøpe earns some town points for being the first one to say something sensible. Prior to him both Dry Fit (scum) and IAI (meltdown town/scum) managed to either vote or soft-sell a vote on jasonT.

I'll even go so far as to call jasonT obvious town at this stage, though that does sort of make my toes curl to have to write.

Ah, I see the Space Time Server Crisis hit this game - so who the hell knows when some of these posts were/weren't made...awkward. Eh, I'll just POST IN ALL CAPS AND SCREAM FOR A SECOND ABOUT HOW BRILLIANT I AM, that way the timing doesn't matter because I'm so good and awesome via caps lock raising my IQ - less effort that way.

Furcolow is obvious town too. Man, this game is going to be easy, isn't it?

Oso recognizes the humor in the "PRgate" discussion and pegs the three funniest posters too. He's still obv. town. (funny though, he suspects furc for *exactly* the logic I'm clearing him by. That sucks, only one of us can be brilliant, beautiful, and awesome - so I'm hoping he's just being dumb)

KaleiÐoscøpe loses some town points. *sigh*

There's some sort of connection between IAI's name and IIoA isn't there? I can't believe he's acting like Benmage is scummy for not being a fan of lynches without flip information. Buh? I could see *disagreeing* with him - but calling it scummy? He's also still all over the jason/Oso paradigm. *mutter, mutter*

mongoose is an anchor around town's neck. Not sure if it's a scum or town anchor yet, but I can certainly detect the weight.

Sotty has a Locke and KaleiÐoscøpe town read as her strongest? No!!!!! (of course I sort of have extra information then she did then so...clearly I am the better scumhunter. Yes.)

Why does Furc, when responding to one sentence, always quote the entire wall of the player he's responding to? I may just start skipping his posts soon.

Sotty looks town too, that is awesome.

Post #188 - Mina meltdown. I win $5!

[Thor665]

Fun fact, deadline is in ~48 hours.

Ergh! Nikanor's replacement timing suxxors!

Ack. Um...of the viable wagons...

$10 now, yes?

Okay, I've read 1-8 and 22-23 of the thread.
I feel like I'm in Clash of Kings all over again with a replace in near a deadline situation.

Okay, so our lynch deadline is tomorrow and our options are Red Coyote, Percy, and Baby Spice (or as I know him, Mongoose)

I have *no* idea what the Percy wagon is about - as far as I can see he looks town. I'm with mina on being fooled by Percy before but if someone could give me a quick summation/link to the Percyscum case I'd appreciate it. At the moment I have very little urge to lynch him.

I could very well be game for an RC lynch, he looks scummy as a New York subway thus far, and it doesn't seem like he's gotten any better. What's the RCtown case and why should I listen to it?

BabySpice/Mongoose strikes me as the compromise candidate in the mix. I'm not really for or against this lynch except on basic policy at the moment. Is Baby Spice's play equally VItastic to Mongoose's?