Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[MasterSpy]

Since I wasn't feeling well this morning and stayed home from work, I spent today catching up.

Crab Canon, aside from the whole "It's statistically impossible for Troll to be town in the same game as me" paranoia, do you have any concrete reasons for thinking he's either town or scum? You must know quite a bit about his scum play (as well as Sotty's). So do you see anything from him that's inconsistent with it? Does he always completely blindside you, or do you know how to read him? Do you know what his town play looks like?

Also, you left Bowser out of your PoE list. I assume you'd put him in the lynch pool.

I'm posting this in several chunks for reasons that will become obvious shortly.

1) Professor Paradox

Professor Paradox here, checking in with a new hydra head: It is I, MacavityLock! (So, you'll probably be able to figure out what posts come from RAGECAPS ELLI and which come from me.)

Awesome! One confirmed scumbag down.

But in all seriousness, I was not a fan of your opening post. Usually, the standard response upon replacement into a game is either 1) a big catch-up post with general reads and comments on what you've missed or 2) a comment along the lines of "Hi, everyone, in the middle of catching up, UNVOTE: whoever I was voting, content coming soon." Your coming out with two unexplained reads like that and voting immediately without feedback from your other head looks very off.

What made you so confident in your vote right off the bat?

Pity that pacman isn't here to answer my questions, but I don't suppose you could give a heads-up to Ellibereth to explain the contradiction on meta stances, could you? Or did you get a sneak peek into the QT? Surely they've discussed who was posting what there.

Oh, and one last thing. What do you think of Bowser?

EBWOPreview (yes, I've been working on this a looooong time): PP ninja'd me while I was writing this. I was going to second Crab Canon's question as to where his reads were coming from. His reasons behind his vote...eh, could go either way (both in terms of PP's alignment and Pineapple Ice Cream's). Some of his points are a bit easy. It's hard to tell with reasons like "he misreps stuff in ISO Whatever" (without giving concrete examples). Since I've been focusing on the players off the bv311 wagon because that's where Black Spy is focused, I've neglected Pineapple Ice Cream.

I personally think that Pineapple's overthinking how the hammer would come across depending on the flip looked sincere, and was the kind of thing that looks scummy on paper but no scum would

actually

do. But Black Spy and I haven't discussed Pineapple yet.

[MasterSpy]

2) Bowser

When I'd first read the game, I was lukewarm on Bowser (he seemed like an easy target lurker, and CSL is always useless). But I'm starting to lean scum on him.

I have to leave now, so I don't have time for quotes to illustrate what I mean. Just a summary of points:

-I agree with most of what my partner said about Bowser's vote on Pineapple. It's not just that he coincidentally found the top lynch option scummy (I understand why someone would prioritize a reread of the game's top suspect); it's that he worried more about how it would look for him to ignore the top lynch option and defending his right to vote for the top suspect than giving his own independent thoughts or pushing his own cases.

-His insistence that he needs to see Pineapple's flip before he can make a single case grates at me. Bowser, just save time and answer this. Who do you think is scum if Pineapple flips town? Who do you think is scum if Pineapple flips scum?

-His reasons for wanting a claim are silly. Bowser, what would a claim from Pineapple change for you? Your defence for it appears to be, "Because I'm allowed to want one, since everyone suspects him." No, seriously. What would Pineapple claiming over a week before the deadline change? Are you just curious about his role?

-I agree with VP Baltar that Bowser's stance on Pineapple looks a bit contrived. So he finds him scummy, votes him and asks for a claim...and then backs down and says, "No, actually, you might be town, so I'm voting Smith."

But then, under the slightest pressure from Chimaira to vote more, he caves? If he's starting to doubt his scum read on Pineapple, why did he then revote, instead of pushing Mr. Smith? How did Chimaira change your mind?

-He originally calls me scummy for asking for an unvote or a delay in claiming. His interactions with Black Spy afterward seem slightly antagonistic. And yet Bowser never defended himself against my other head's recent accusations. Then out of the blue, he says he has a town read on MasterSpy.

==============================================
That said, there's just something I want to draw attention to and that I hinted at before. Here's the vote count from D1:

bv311

(L-0): Crab Canon, Chimaira,

FourTigers

,

MasterSpy

, Mr Smith, IceCream, Pineapple
Bowser(L-4): bv311, TomAndJerry, Professor Paradox
Pineapple (L-6): Faranor

Not Voting: Bowser

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Now here's what bothers me. Four Tigers is town. I'm town. My initial thoughts upon replacing into the game were that Crab Canon, Chimaira, and Mr. Smith looked town to varying degrees.

That means that while Bowser was being wagoned, either 1) the first five players on the counterwagon were town, or 2) one of the strong scary trusted hydras is scum.

If Bowser is scum, would the bv wagon be entirely town driven? I mean, CSL being one of Bowser's heads negates that a little (he's prime bussing material). But surely at least one buddy would have pushed a case elsewhere. Do I need to rethink my scum read on Bowser and/or one of my initial town reads?

Since this is only the final vote count, I need to reread D1 to see how the Bowser wagon and bv counterwagon developed (for example, if there were any late hops onto the former or jumps from Bowser onto bv).

[MasterSpy]

3) Faranor

Here's

my token attempt to pressure Faranor just to appease Black Spy for taking the wind out of his case

stuff I noticed when doing an in-depth read of his ISO.

Bvnotamod is probably town, I'm assuming they're not going to act like an idiot the whole game, but town nonetheless. I found the mod thing funny, as is their new avatar.

-Why do you think Bv pretending to be the mod made him more likely to be town? He might have even chosen the name before getting his role PM.
-Why did you vote for IC?

Unvote. Vote: Mr. Smith.
I think I see why Fara~ voted for IceCream, but this vote is better.[/quot]
I don't see why. Why do you think Faraday voted for Ice Cream?

Also, my other head is a little miffed that you still haven't answered this:

@Faranor – STOP IGNORING THE FOLLOWING QUESTION –

@Fara – in 310 you made a pointed comment regarding me ‘not following up’ on promised content. I asked you to clarify what via quotation what I was not following up on. You never responded. Again I’d like to know the reason for your comment.

Looking at the wagon from yesterday, I'll say that Masterspy and 1-2 of {IceCream, Pineapple} are scum on the bv wagon, and that 0-1 of {PP} was scum off the wagon.
Faraday seems to be of the opinion that Pineapple is obvscum though, and I think that Pineapple is scummy too (not as scummy as MS, buttttt), so I like our vote.

I can’t believe you actually posted this Nik.

You are suggesting that the lynch wagon had either 2 or 3 of the Scum on it despite the fact that they chose to kill on that wagon which would narrow down the pool. That is terribly stupid logic.

And you label the only possible person to be scum off the wagon as Prof Paradox? Who you soft defended in ISO 7 and mentioned in no other way Day 1?

I’m not buying you think this is credible at all.

(*mumble mumble* even-though-I-think-Black-Spy-is-the-only-person-in-this-game-who-would-bother-worrying-about-whether-his-nightkills-narrowed-down-the-pool-on-the-lynch-wagon *mumble mumble*)

I barely know why I think MS is scum. If you think about the way both Faraday and I play, you'll understand how our QT looks right now.

Okay, this is kind of ridiculous.

Why do you think MasterSpy is scum before?

No, seriously. Give a reason. Don't tell me neither of you know why. Nikanor. Write three sentences or more explaining why you think MasterSpy is scum. Write three sentences or more why you think Pineapple is scum.

And Faraday. Three sentences or more explaining why

you

thought MasterSpy is town. Three sentences or more explaining why you personally (as opposed to Nikanor) think Pineapple is scum. Come on, I know you can write a wall post if you really set your mind to it.

I get gut reads, and I get finding it a waste of time to post all your reasoning in the thread. But if you're so bad at introspection that when you're asked pointblank to justify your opinions, you can't come up with a single instance of scummy behaviour from your top suspect, or even a single quote that you don't like, then you aren't playing Mafia, just guessing random names, and your "reads" are probably either cognitive biases or contrived and phony. Make an effort to understand your own thought processes.

Seriously, I don't get it. How do people have

no idea whatsoever

why they think whatever it is they think? Are you

sure

this isn't a vezokpiraka/Furcolow hydra?
============================================================

I've got to go, now (will answer Tom's question later). I still feel like I only have patchwork knowledge of the game (probably due to having paid closer attention to some players than to others). I need to look at Ice Cream (may consider voting him depending on what I find), Tom and Jerry, and Mr. Smith (another premature claim fan).

~White Spy

[MasterSpy]

bv310: Can you fix the quote tag above, please (just add an e to the -nor closing quote)?

[Professor Paradox]

What made you so confident in your vote right off the bat?

I've actually been following along with this game for a bit, and had some opinions formed before officially replacing in here. Sorry if it came off as abrupt, but sometimes that's how I work.

Pity that pacman isn't here to answer my questions, but I don't suppose you could give a heads-up to Ellibereth to explain the contradiction on meta stances, could you? Or did you get a sneak peek into the QT? Surely they've discussed who was posting what there.

There's nothing in the QT about swapping stances on meta. There was specific discussion about attempting to get reactions from the fake-name-claimee (Lat). I see where you're coming from about Elli's back-and-forth on name-claim in thread, but all I can say is that it's Elli. I am of the opinion that it can only help town to know who I am, which is why I name-claimed in my intro post.

Oh, and one last thing. What do you think of Bowser?

The random vote, legit FoS at the start was horrible, no doubt. And then there was lurking. But since Untrod started posting in earnest, I don't see any major issues. I'm willing to give some slack for the replacement. Also, a Pineapple flip (Pineapple turnover?) would provide more info here.

[Faranor]

-Why do you think Bv pretending to be the mod made him more likely to be town? He might have even chosen the name before getting his role PM.
-Why did you vote for IC?

I just think it's the type of thing town would be more likely to do, as scum I'd certainly be hesitant to pick something like that, and basically semi trolling the game and fucking around as they did with the second avatar changed. I suppose it's possible they chose the name before PM, but they could always change it.
Didn't like they're posting up to that point. Thought the attack on bowser was a load of crap and looked scummy, basically picking on things that made him a weak player, calling him anti town and then going on to vote because of that.

No, seriously. Give a reason. Don't tell me neither of you know why. Nikanor. Write three sentences or more explaining why you think MasterSpy is scum. Write three sentences or more why you think Pineapple is scum.

Yeah Nikanor you lazy bastard.

And Faraday. Three sentences or more explaining why

you

thought MasterSpy is town. Three sentences or more explaining why you personally (as opposed to Nikanor) think Pineapple is scum. Come on, I know you can write a wall post if you really set your mind to it.

I'm pretty sure I've confused MasterSpy and Mr Smith in my head a few times having seen you ask these questions actually, as that's who I'd thought we'd been talking about but yeah. I think Smith's town and your hydra's not scummy to me I don't find vc analysis particularly convincing though that Nik did, or see why Nik thinks you guys are scum. Magna's played reasonable so far and his avenues of enquiry don't strike me as particularly scummy, although I find him reasonably hard to read I've seen nothing here that's set off alarm bells.

Pineapple is scum because he's scum. As in non town. As in mafia. Well technically that's 3 sentences APPLE'S FIRST POST was scummy. Also that whole partner didn't mention any scum reads seems like a gigantic pile of unlikely (lie). Also their stuff lately like voting to make a point, but then it's serous. Then yeah we should lynch him.

I don't know like that's 3 sentences but it just kind of feels inadequate when said like that. And while I appreciate your enthusiasm for my abillity to write wall o texts this took fucking ages.

I get gut reads, and I get finding it a waste of time to post all your reasoning in the thread. But if you're so bad at introspection that when you're asked pointblank to justify your opinions, you can't come up with a single instance of scummy behaviour from your top suspect, or even a single quote that you don't like, then you aren't playing Mafia, just guessing random names, and your "reads" are probably either cognitive biases or contrived and phony. Make an effort to understand your own thought processes.

I feel SCOLDED. Reform is coming.

Seriously, I don't get it. How do people have

no idea whatsoever

why they think whatever it is they think? Are you

sure

this isn't a vezokpiraka/Furcolow hydra?

:/ below the belt a little.

[TomAndJerry]

Could I have each slot's top two scum suspects?

[Pineapple]

Hai guys, I'm the lastest head of Pineapple. Hopefully I'll last longer than the last few.

So I'll read the thread, confer with the senior head, and post inside the next 24 hours (probably).

[Faranor]

Nik here. Just a quick post, because it's all that I have time for after all of my wonderful birthday celebrations this weekend. This is actually the first time I've been sober since Friday afternoon. >_>

Moving on,

MasterSpy is scummy because his scumhunting looks fake. Statements like, "Wagon position is highly over-rated as a tell," come from scum talking to town. That kind of statement does not come from town who thinks that the person he is talking to is scummy.

Pineapple is scummy because his posts don't have the motivation of someone trying to lynch scum. I agree with Faraday's point about his vote on us.

[TomAndJerry]

Page 10: #234 is Town-posting. It is sassy, but Town. Zorblag enters the game looking like his usual self (IC-ish, from past experience) as part of the Chimaira hydra. Mental note to self to use past experience to read him. Towards the end of the page we have discussion about maintaining anonymity of the hydra's true accounts. I've seen this problem before and it usually resolves itself. I don't think its particularly helpful except in rare cases, so moving on...
Mr. Smith's reaction rubs me the wrong way (probably tone-wise)

Page 11: Lol, I see some amount of mod-WIFOM in MasterSpy's #225, questionable content riddled with emotional responses. Mafia cracking under pressure, me thinks. Looking further into the Crab Canon hydra: #265 shows that both heads are behaving in a pro-town manner. Not really feeling much content from Faranor.

Page 12: This page is a joke, I kid you not. Read it for some laughs.

Page 13: Why is Zorblag (Chimera) doing all those unofficial votecounts? I don't know if it helps but then I wasn't around to feel its effect. From an outside point of view, I find it disturbing and think that's mafia-ish behaviour. IceCream seems reasonable with his style of posting: saying Bowser is overly scummy is okay, saying he's behaving anti-town is better. MasterSpy's #308 looks better, but seeing how I've pegged him as scummy since the start...he can only get better, right? This is a problem; reading him is difficult. I'd say not good enough. Still scummy. Okay, if I have to commit to a read I'd say: Chimera and MasterSpy are half town and half scum.

Page 14: Here's some expalination: I find the Sotty half of Chimera protown for content which generate discussion, I find the Zorblag half antitown for the things he posts, based off past experience.
Now we have shed some light on why hydras are lazy and inactive. Its not because they're big and heavy, its because responsibility is split and this is prime fertilizer for the plant called inactivity.
Bowser and Faranor seem lacking, to some degree Pineapple as well.

Page 15: There's the bv311 lynch. MasterSpy's joke causes confusion; not a great move, period. Zorblag part of the Chimera is making me feel very edgy, #364 has content, but he's behaving passively. Behavior isn't consistent. And I kinda like content from Tom (no I'm not being bias just because I'm his new partner, you have to take my word for it).
Looking at Chimaira as a whole, Sotty's so-called towness outweights my behavioural read on Zorblag and thus I'd peg the hydra as Town.

Intermission for Player Analysis (Win/Fail system)

Mr. Smith --> scummy
Bowser --> active lurker
Professor Paradox --> ?
Pineapple --> ?
Faranor --> lurker
IceCream --> ?
MasterSpy --> recently replaced, providing content
Chimaira --> Town because of Sotty's content
Crab Canon --> Most posts are protown

It isn't easy reading hydras. Scumhunting by process of elimination changes due to split reads. I'd like to reflect back on the game when this is all over to see how accurate my reads are/were.

Page 16: Things get heated up a bit here. Bowser's defense at #390 looks pretty okay, actually. Getting more content from Faranor, so he's not as lurkish as I'd thought before.

Page 17: Sotty's point on Pineapple in the first post makes sense. Mr. Smith has posted some unimpressive fluff. Bowser puts Pineapple at L-1. Makes me question the possibility of a Bowser + Pineapple scumteam: unlikely bus. So one of them is likely Town and the other Mafia

Page 18: I don't get why MasterSpy chooses to vote Prof. Paradox, it seems like a distraction. I may be missing something, if I am do tell me: #431 Aah, juicy argument at the bottom of the page...

Page 19:...but there is no counter-argument by Bowser here. Oh well. MasterSpy appears to be putting much effort to scumhunting, it look genuine to me. Aah, Zorblag's #452 is made with more conviction. This is like and think fits more of his Town play, based on experience (not meta, that's different. I don't like meta). I enter the game here.

Player Reevaluation (From most scummy to least)

Bowser --> If not him, then Pineapple's Mafia
Pineapple --> If not him, then Bowser's Mafia
Mr. Smith --> Not town
Professor Paradox --> Slightly scummy for earlier sheenanigans
Faranor --> Null
IceCream --> Null
MasterSpy --> Progressively townier
Chimaira --> Town enough
Crab Canon --> Town

We as a hydra are trying to post using the "combined" method. This catch-up post should be the last one individually signed 'Jerry' (and 'Tom' too). Subsequent posts made by us should be signed 'Tom & Jerry'.

-Jerry

[IceCream]

I find it amusing that people have such strong townreads ON PEOPLE THAT CAN LOOK TOWN IF THEY WANTED TO. The fact that this game has gone by really slowly despite its juicy player list manifests itself as extremely likely evidence that some of the strong players if not most are, in fact, scum. Crab strikes me as scum because of his enthusiasm at the start of the game in stark contrast with how he's behaving as of lately, which mostly consists of random comments and posts with discontinued thoughts. Smith's revote on Bowser is also WTF considering he felt strongly enough that Crab is scum despite my unexplained vote.
@TomandJerry: I have no idea where you get your strong town read on Crab on. Chimera is producing much healthier content than Crab.

[Chimaira]

I personally think that Pineapple's overthinking how the hammer would come across depending on the flip looked sincere, and was the kind of thing that looks scummy on paper but no scum would

actually

do. But Black Spy and I haven't discussed Pineapple yet.

Why not? They are one of the top wagons of the day, I would have thought you would have discussed

something

about them. You should probably do that soon.

Could I have each slot's top two scum suspects?

Pineapple and you.

Why is it you haven't voted today? Asking for top two scum suspects reeks of you looking for an easy place to stick your vote (AKA you not scum hunting). You have only voted for Bowser all game and that vote came well into day one. Why are you trying so hard to fly under the radar?

Icecream

, I don't think the juicy player lists equates into a good games all the time. You might have had a semi good argument if hydras were hand picked, they weren't. The fact that everyone in the game has been lurking to some degree at some point pokes holes in your theory. In other words, just saying someone is a good player isn't enough for me to be suspicious of them. I'd say a very high percentage of this game is filled with good players. I'm not about to start suspecting them all.

Basically make a case that is based in game. Good players aren't impossible to read. I don't see anything resembling a Crab case from you. If you want me to take you seriously, you are going to have to change that.

~Sotty

[Lateralus22]

I can't delete it, but I can do this

[TomAndJerry]

Why is it you haven't voted today? Asking for top two scum suspects reeks of you looking for an easy place to stick your vote (AKA you not scum hunting). You have only voted for Bowser all game and that vote came well into day one. Why are you trying so hard to fly under the radar?

Beginning of the day IIRC I was inactive/VLA or something in between so I figured my partner would vote so he'd actually do something. We all know how well that worked out. Was pretty inactive mid/end I just didn't get around to it as I couldn't give my full attention and burst in my usual active direct engagements.

My last post was essentially a vote as I named my top suspect, but hey this time around I got a partner who posts in the game so I figured I'd wait around until then. How am I exactly flying under the radar, you know voting isn't the only scum hunting method >.>

Jerry says he's cool with a vote Pineapple now so... (Hopefully this is my last single post)

Vote: Pineapple

Mod: Is the deadline going to be extended?

Yo Mod, could you delete the post above? >.>

~Tom

[bv310]

D2's Fourth official vote count!

Pineapple (L-1): Faranor, Chimaira, Crab Canon, Bowser, TomAndJerry
Bowser (L-5): Mr. Smith
Crab Canon (L-5): IceCream
Professor Paradox (L-5): MasterSpy
Faranor (L-5): Pineapple
IceCream (L-5): Professor Paradox


With 10 alive, it will take 6 to lynch, 5 to no-lynch.


So, by popular demand (and I do mean demand), I'm going to compromise on my previous deadline extension and say two days extra. New deadline is Thursday, November 17 at 3pm.

[Pineapple]

After reading the majority of the thread, I disagree with the other head's vote on Faranor.

I think that Bowser, whom lacks real content (cruise mod, engaged), and Prof. Paradox should both swing beforehand. So I'll discuss more in our QT, and see about putting a collaborative case together.

[TomAndJerry]

Could you get your individual thoughts out?

~Tom

[Pineapple]

On P.Paradox: His iso is more full of empty promise than actual posts.

Seriously. One liners, a vote without reason, promise to catch up, "okay I lied" promise to catch up, response to prod...

How is he still alive?

Unvote, Vote: Prof. Paradox

On Bowser: Very few posts, with little content. More active lurking than anything concrete.

[TomAndJerry]

Surely you have more than that no? How do you feel about the votes against your slot and the people who are contributing? IIRC your partner has said he has discussed the game with his previous hydra head, what sort of discussion went on there?

~Tom

[Professor Paradox]

Pineapple's new head noticed that Chim and Crab have said that they're willing to vote us based on lack of contribution, making us the only likely alt wagon, and thus is going for it. Sadly, with the power of New ML Head, lack of contribution is in the process of being reversed. It's time to claim.

[TomAndJerry]

Sadly, with the power of New ML Head, lack of contribution is in the process of being reversed.

When will this process be complete?

~Tom

[Professor Paradox]

Sadly, with the power of New ML Head, lack of contribution is in the process of being reversed.

When will this process be complete?

~Tom

However long it takes for people to realize that I'm not going to let this hydra rest on any laurels. Anything you particularly need me to respond to?

[TomAndJerry]

Mostly interested about your view on Mr Smith. Elli expressed some interest in him recently, did he mention anything in the qt? Was that completely for kicks and giggles or was it a honest read?

~Tom

[Mr Smith]

4) Smith is no longer a town read of mine. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt as well because Oj found their arguing with me early on to be a bit more town, but I do find it strange that they are trying to turn back to the tough guy attitude again after being outted and admitting that it was an act early on. I don't mind that they don't like the Pineapple wagon, but they seem to be without direction for a good alternative. mykonian is perfectly capable of making a decent case and I'm not seeing much trying to convince other players to move their votes.

??? I'm an aggressive player always. There's no tough guy act here.

@Smith - I'd like you to explain how and when Bowser jumped to the top of your scumlist.

The start of the game. He never left, I just got distracted.

Prior to that, you had been pushing Faranor/PP regularly and not really caring much about Bowser it seems to me.

I've only been interested in Faranor since some time D2. PP's been improving but I've got my eye on them regardless.

Then we get your iso #73, which I find a little ridiculous upon review. Why did you say:

@Bowser:

unvote, vote: Bowser

. Why I ever changed this vote is beyond me.

When you had not voted Bowser since a completely unexplained vote on Day 1?

Calling my Bowser vote unexplained is ridiculous.

I find your statement suggesting he is such a strong scum read for you to be odd to say the least given the rest of your posting. Additionally, why do you ask Pineapple to claim in that same post when you are implying that you do not support his wagon?

Because you'll lynch him if he doesn't claim, obviously.

Despite the laziness in this game, I think we still have a good chance to win this because I do have some pretty decent town reads I feel. If I had to propose a town alliance right now, I would place it as:

Chimaira

,

Faranor

,

MasterSpy

,

TomandJerry

,

Crab Cannon

. That leaves:

Pineapple

,

IceCream

,

Mr. Smith

,

Prof. Paradox

as potential scum.

colored everyone myself. Noticed a later comment about leaving out the bowser and he's red too.

Out of the town reads I have, Faranor is probably the weakest and most gut based.

At least you're honest about your buddies.

#403 (Mr Smith): You know, you're not exactly a very clear writer. You're ignoring the bolded parts of I pointed out. The bolded in #1 is the exact opposite of what you're saying and #2 is also the exact opposite. Those don't fit with #3.

Ignore your worthless bold, because when you bold stuff and focus on it you lose context.
Now reread in context.
Now realize that it's not my writing but your reading that is the problem here. Thanks in advance.

MasterSpy actually has decent reads it seems which is rare in this game so maybe moving their name to the greenpile is an appropriate course of action to take.

MasterSpy

That looks a lot better, too.

Hey Charlie! I'm worried about you only mentioning me once in your #484, and then putting me in "scummy" and "not town", the latter of which I find to be the most solid stance one can take besides "confirmed scum." What between the first list of reads and the second list of reads made you take this more solid stance? Why aren't you voting me, then? You feel one of Bowser and Pineapple is scum, but if I'm a more definite read, why not vote me? Can't back it up? That really rubs me the wrong way, y'know, and I know you're one to back up "cases" with lots of evidence. (Guess which head is posting this to win absolutely nothing but satisfaction in your reading abilities!)

[Professor Paradox]

Mostly interested about your view on Mr Smith. Elli expressed some interest in him recently, did he mention anything in the qt? Was that completely for kicks and giggles or was it a honest read?

~Tom

So, there's nothing at all in the hydra QT between Oct 20 and Oct 30. (The MrSmith-PP butting heads stuff in thread was on Oct 24.) Elli and pacman seemed to be serially inactive. I'm not sure I can provide anything interesting for you on that account. But that won't be happening moving forward.

As for me, based on my current read (and MrSmith isn't one of those I've completed an iso on) and gut, they're in my "mild scum" pile. With two days to deadline, I would not be all that interested in a wagon here today.