Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[MasterSpy]

First I’d like to thank White Spy for taking the lead and making this slot productive these last few days. Bravo White Spy … I will not rig the vending machine with deadly blades now …

I don't think that lynching anyone except for my two scum reads is in any way the correct play today, and since it seems that Pineapple will swing, I would rather not make people read my weakass, imminently changing cases on other players.

Regardless of whether Pineapple does swing you need to make your impression felt.

What do you think of Paradox’s play?

Pineapple's new head noticed that Chim and Crab have said that they're willing to vote us based on lack of contribution, making us the only likely alt wagon, and thus is going for it. Sadly, with the power of New ML Head, lack of contribution is in the process of being reversed. It's time to claim.

Scumtastic. You pop in, make a few ill supported assertions and expect that suddenly you are in the clear?

For the record, I don't really care for his lack of contribution either and I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt this game, but I'm about sick of that and would lynch him today if there is support before deadline.

Why would you give them the benefit of the doubt? I haven’t ever played with pacman but for someone of Elli’s reputation (nominated for Best New Player) the content from him is downright horrible.

MasterSpy is scummy because his scumhunting looks fake. Statements like, "Wagon position is highly over-rated as a tell," come from scum talking to town. That kind of statement does not come from town who thinks that the person he is talking to is scummy.

Bullshit. Sorry Nik, but it is. You tried to cobble some sort of vague Wiki-tells to cover the fact that your reads were completely gut based. And I called you on it. Had you just said ‘I think Z, X and Y’ are scum it would have worked much better into the meta for you that the White Spy is trying to beat me to death with in our QT. But you didn’t. Does it make you scum? Not necessarily, but it does make me question your motives.

Page 11: Lol, I see some amount of mod-WIFOM in MasterSpy's #225, questionable content riddled with emotional responses. Mafia cracking under pressure, me thinks.

Really? You’ll have to seriously back all these statements up because I find it compelling.

What specifically is Mod WIFOM? What is questionable content and what do you see as emotional responses? How would you characterize it as ‘cracking under pressure’ when not a single vote was resting on the slot at that juncture.

I’m interested in seeing your support your assertions Charlie.

On to general impressions –

I agree 100% with both WhiteSpy’s read on Pineapple and impression on Maclock’s replace in post.

Pineapple just feels quite honestly like someone not capable of keeping with some of the other Hydras’ play level and an easy target based on the hammer of BV. I need to go back and look to see who from the bv wagon has pushed against them for the hammer. Because everyone on the wagon is responsible for their vote on the mislynch. Pushing for bv’s lynch and then hitting Pineapple hard for hammering is an inconsistency I don’t like.

WhiteSpy and myself are split regarding enough of our reads that Crab Canon is the only solid Town read we share.

I still want to see Prof Para take the rope but wouldn't shed a tear if Bowser was a stand in for Paradox.

~The Black Spy

[Crab Canon]

The principle of a town alliance seems a bit off to me, the purpose of this is town unity correct?

Yes, though I don't really know what you mean by "the principle seems a bit off to me". Could you explain for me?

Crab Canon, aside from the whole "It's statistically impossible for Troll to be town in the same game as me" paranoia, do you have any concrete reasons for thinking he's either town or scum? You must know quite a bit about his scum play (as well as Sotty's). So do you see anything from him that's inconsistent with it? Does he always completely blindside you, or do you know how to read him? Do you know what his town play looks like?

Honestly, I can't read Troll at all and I don't really mind saying that. He's a good player because he always sounds so damn logical. Recently learning about his history of taking courses in logic, this makes more sense. He's basically a soothsayer and if he's scum, you're better off to catch him early rather than putting him off for later. I've learned this the hard way a couple of times. That being said, I get town vibes from Sotty, who I am comparatively better at reading. Oj is pretty V/LA at the moment, but she just checked in recently and said Chimaira is her strongest town read, so I am going to go with my gut here and say they are most likely town (despite history!)

-His insistence that he needs to see Pineapple's flip before he can make a single case grates at me. Bowser, just save time and answer this. Who do you think is scum if Pineapple flips town? Who do you think is scum if Pineapple flips scum?

I second this. There is way too much stalling of giving reads and reasons for reads in this game. Pretty unacceptable.

I find Mina's analysis of the bv311 wagon to be mildly intriguing. I honestly do feel like the initial four people on that wagon are town, so it could be a late scum push to counter the bowser wagon...which sort of correlates to some of the crappy votes on the tail end there, but I want to review those votes and their timing before I commit to any opinion about that.

Also, a Pineapple flip (Pineapple turnover?) would provide more info here.

What info do you see coming out of that? Also, you think a Pineapple flip would be informative, but you're voting IceCream....idk about the people in this game.

Hai guys, I'm the lastest head of Pineapple. Hopefully I'll last longer than the last few.

People don't want to play a scum role when they replace in as the leading wagon?

MasterSpy is scummy because his scumhunting looks fake. Statements like, "Wagon position is highly over-rated as a tell," come from scum talking to town. That kind of statement does not come from town who thinks that the person he is talking to is scummy.

This line looks fake. What do you feel about Mina's posts upon replacing in?

I find it amusing that people have such strong townreads ON PEOPLE THAT CAN LOOK TOWN IF THEY WANTED TO.

"Don't form a town alliance, it makes hiding out as scum much much more difficult!"

Unvote, Vote: Ice Cream

Crab strikes me as scum because of his enthusiasm at the start of the game in stark contrast with how he's behaving as of lately, which mostly consists of random comments and posts with discontinued thoughts.

Orly? Do tell. What are these discontinued thoughts I've been having?

However long it takes for people to realize that I'm not going to let this hydra rest on any laurels.

lol, I think that requires laurels to rest on

??? I'm an aggressive player always. There's no tough guy act here.

It was directed at myk since it seemed like he was doing most of the posting for your account.

Calling my Bowser vote unexplained is ridiculous.

Please quote me the explanation you gave for your Bowser vote.

Because you'll lynch him if he doesn't claim, obviously.

...I don't even. You seriously think I should believe you asked him to claim because you KNEW his claim would save him from being lynched? This is the story you're sticking to?


--preview edit--

Why would you give them the benefit of the doubt? I haven’t ever played with pacman but for someone of Elli’s reputation (nominated for Best New Player) the content from him is downright horrible.

I give most people the benefit of the doubt unless they're completely annoying. Also, being nominated for a scummy =/= most awesome scummer ever. It is an open process afterall. elli is a fine player, but his recent close affiliation with DGB has warped his playstyle into being non-contributive imo. It's more of a null tell than anything if you ask me.

[Professor Paradox]

Mostly interested about your view on Mr Smith. Elli expressed some interest in him recently, did he mention anything in the qt? Was that completely for kicks and giggles or was it a honest read?

~Tom

I didn't mention anything.
It was honest...the jester comment and the way he replied after I said it was weird, still feels weird...

[Professor Paradox]

My gut says Bowser is town.
I have the feeling Bowser/tripod-scum would have attacked me more after my 5-post failed catchup earlier instead of just joke about it...

[Professor Paradox]

bv311(L-0): Crab Canon, Chimaira, FourTigers, MasterSpy, Mr Smith, IceCream, Pineapple
Bowser(L-4): bv311, TomAndJerry, Professor Paradox
Pineapple (L-6): Faranor

Not Voting: Bowser

Fara is probscum.

[Ellibereth]

Bowser: 4: Mr Smith (1), Professor Paradox (9), bv311 (10), TomAndJerry (12)
Pineapple: 3: FourTigers (3), MasterSpy (7), Faranor (11)
Professor Paradox: 2: Pineapple (6), Chimaira (8)
IceCream: 1: Crab Canon (4)

Not Voting: Bowser, IceCream
--------------
Professor Paradox: 3: Mr Smith (3), Pineapple (7), Chimaira (9)
Pineapple: 3: FourTigers (4), MasterSpy (8), Faranor (12)
Bowser: 3: Professor Paradox (10), bv311 (11), TomAndJerry (13)
IceCream: 1: Crab Canon (5)

Not Voting: Bowser, IceCream
--------------
Pineapple: 3: FourTigers (4), MasterSpy (8), Faranor (12)
Bowser: 2: bv311 (11), TomAndJerry (13)
Professor Paradox: 2: Pineapple (7), Mr Smith (18)
bv311: 2: Crab Cannon (14), Chimaira (16)
Mr Smith: 1: Professor Paradox (17)

Not Voting: Bowser, IceCream
---------------
bv311: 6: Crab Canon (14), Chimaira (16), FourTigers (20), MasterSpy (21), Mr Smith (22), IceCream (23)
Bowser: 2: bv311 (11), TomAndJerry (13)
Professor Paradox: 1: Pineapple (7)
Pineapple: 1: Faranor (12)
Mr Smith: 1: Professor Paradox (17)

Not Voting: Bowser

Putting Troll's votecounts all together somewhere to make my life easier...Along with the last which was basically almost repeated in the lynch by bv...first or second might be helpful in the future...

I'm still at Fara + 2{Pine/Ice/Smith} right now.

[Professor Paradox]

Bowser: 4: Mr Smith (1), Professor Paradox (9), bv311 (10), TomAndJerry (12)
Pineapple: 3: FourTigers (3), MasterSpy (7), Faranor (11)
Professor Paradox: 2: Pineapple (6), Chimaira (8)
IceCream: 1: Crab Canon (4)

Not Voting: Bowser, IceCream
--------------
Professor Paradox: 3: Mr Smith (3), Pineapple (7), Chimaira (9)
Pineapple: 3: FourTigers (4), MasterSpy (8), Faranor (12)
Bowser: 3: Professor Paradox (10), bv311 (11), TomAndJerry (13)
IceCream: 1: Crab Canon (5)

Not Voting: Bowser, IceCream
--------------
Pineapple: 3: FourTigers (4), MasterSpy (8), Faranor (12)
Bowser: 2: bv311 (11), TomAndJerry (13)
Professor Paradox: 2: Pineapple (7), Mr Smith (18)
bv311: 2: Crab Cannon (14), Chimaira (16)
Mr Smith: 1: Professor Paradox (17)

Not Voting: Bowser, IceCream
---------------
bv311: 6: Crab Canon (14), Chimaira (16), FourTigers (20), MasterSpy (21), Mr Smith (22), IceCream (23)
Bowser: 2: bv311 (11), TomAndJerry (13)
Professor Paradox: 1: Pineapple (7)
Pineapple: 1: Faranor (12)
Mr Smith: 1: Professor Paradox (17)

Not Voting: Bowser

Putting Troll's votecounts all together somewhere to make my life easier...Along with the last which was basically almost repeated in the lynch by bv...first or second might be helpful in the future...

I'm still at Fara + 2{Pine/Ice/Smith} right now.

[TomAndJerry]

Blargh, can't sleep. I really need some goddamn sleep.

Doing some rereading and this stuck out to me, I think Master Spy said this the first time around but I can't seem to find the quote, whatever.

(Elli)Along with the last which was basically almost repeated in the lynch by bv

Vote: IceCream

Hope my partner's ok, blargh. Timezones suck.

Post #485: So many things wrong here. See the Caps lock? He's making his case based off goddamn fucking meta that isn't even reliable, I speak from personal experience. He doesn't bother to show the game(s) in question, and when you don't do that when it's the fucking crux of your case that shows a serious lack of commitment.

Back to caps or whatever, this is a very selective piece of shit. Maybe around 1/3ish people look pretty pro town. I think his whole meta point is something he's claiming as a general scum thing to because he's spent some of his time explaining it in this certain game. My high to low activity was something I saw un my own play so I was wondering why he didn't mention that about me, or even attack others as aggressively for this.

The comment about Smith feels really bad. Srsly, let's look at the vote again.

But that wagon isn't taking of anyway, and you are right. I also don't like how crabby is avoiding all this. unvote vote Crab

Is this brilliant piece of false reasoning better than his Bowser Vote? (No…) The thing is, even in general Smith didn't advocate a Crab lynch very hard so I'm wondering where this leap of logic is coming from. The line is begging Smith to put his vote back on Crab.

Earlier on IIRC 1 of two major things was the level of content. Rereading over, they're almost essentially the same. IceCream had a decentish attack on Bowser, but then did nothing rest of the game. One head uses the other's as a get out of doing anything ticket. The OMGUS flailing is parallel to that of Pineapple setting up a Cactch-22 scenario. After this read, I'm feeling more confident.

"Goes off to qt to convince Jerry that IceCream is totally scummier"

Woo, 2 Am on a fucking school night.

~Very Tired Tom

[TomAndJerry]

The quote btw is talking more about how Ice is wrong about how Strong Smith's vote was, felt that was unclear.

~Tom

[Faranor]

Bullshit. Sorry Nik, but it is. You tried to cobble some sort of vague Wiki-tells to cover the fact that your reads were completely gut based. And I called you on it. Had you just said ‘I think Z, X and Y’ are scum it would have worked much better into the meta for you that the White Spy is trying to beat me to death with in our QT. But you didn’t. Does it make you scum? Not necessarily, but it does make me question your motives.

Mina asked me for some sort of concrete reason for thinking that you and Pineapple are scum, other than gut. I gave it to her. I'm not naive enough to think that gut is some magical force that leads me to the scum. I know that it does have some basis, and that post was me trying to figure out exactly where my reads are coming from.
What I meant to say is that your words aren't matching up to what you're supposed to be thinking. You say that my post makes you question my motives, as if you weren't doing that already. You're saying, "Well this here post could very well be scummy!" which is scummy.
Mina, on the other hand, I'm getting a town read on. The way she calls us town for saying that our QT is dead is something that I think she'd do as town. I can't wait to see more.
In other news, we have less than two days left before our deadline. It would be great if the people voting for IceCream could go back to Pineapple so that we can get a claim today.

[Crab Canon]

I will vote Pineapple at deadline if necessary, but it's my impression that the deadline is being extended.

Mod, please tell us when deadline is now so we know.

[Mr Smith]

??? I'm an aggressive player always. There's no tough guy act here.

It was directed at myk since it seemed like he was doing most of the posting for your account.

I haven't. Lately, I have knowingly overstretched myself, and this game was the game that suffered. Parama has done 90% of the posting and thinking, and while I really disagree with him now, I really don't have the reasons to back it up anymore.

This hydra is on this moment trying to play on experience, something we can't really do yet.

Oh, and you are scum. But I still have to convince Parama, it seems. I have a null read on pineapple, but Icecream is really not our choice. Faranor is scummy as hell, while Masterspy is obvtown.

[Mr Smith]

I find it amusing that people have such strong townreads ON PEOPLE THAT CAN LOOK TOWN IF THEY WANTED TO. The fact that this game has gone by really slowly despite its juicy player list manifests itself as extremely likely evidence that some of the strong players if not most are, in fact, scum. Crab strikes me as scum because of his enthusiasm at the start of the game in stark contrast with how he's behaving as of lately, which mostly consists of random comments and posts with discontinued thoughts. Smith's revote on Bowser is also WTF considering he felt strongly enough that Crab is scum despite my unexplained vote.

This hydra is quite dead on the moment. Sorry. I'll be back?

[bv310]

*cough*

[quote="bv310"]

So, by popular demand (and I do mean demand), I'm going to compromise on my previous deadline extension and say two days extra. New deadline is Thursday, November 17 at 3pm.

[/quote]

[Crab Canon]

Oh bloody hell. Fine.

Unvote, Vote: Pineapple

Oh, and you are scum. But I still have to convince Parama, it seems. I have a null read on pineapple, but Icecream is really not our choice. Faranor is scummy as hell, while Masterspy is obvtown.

1)Still waiting for a legit explanation of why I'm scum.
2)Are you willing to vote Pineapple at deadline?
3)I dont' know what "Ice Cream really isn't our choice" means.

[Mr Smith]

1. Later
2. No
3. There are better lynches

BTW the 17th is Wednesday...

[bv310]

FUUUUUUUUUU-

The 18th, then.

[IceCream]

Mod: Prod Ice

I've been trying to get my other head in here to explain his CC vote for the past three days, seeing as he did it without much explanation (here or in thread). Since it seems that he's disappeared, I'm getting rid of it.

Unvote

General notes -- For me to go more in-depth on:

I don't like how smith jumped on Ice's CC wagon so quickly and then voted Bowser. I'll come back to this more in depth later.

Faranor's "masterspy is scummy" comment coming right after spy's post about him is suspect.

I need to go back and ISO P. Paradox, but the wagon seems town.

Bowser needs to get his butt back in here and do something.

~Cream

[IceCream]

Since I've been letting ice take over for the past few days, I'm going to do short ISO reads of a few players. Starting with smith, who I view as scummiest at the moment:

You are right. You are so right. Faranor is scum too, so on this moment I need to think a little more. Know that you have my support, and if I think it is a good idea, we are on the wagon.

I'd like to know why you think this. All of this.

What am I avoiding exactly?

OMG, you are doing it again!

Except I don't see how he was, and there's no explanation from your camp.

unvote, vote: Bowser

WHY DOES NOBODY WANT TO LYNCH THIS GUY?

Smith's very next post (albiet three days later). In context, this comes just after Bowser calls smith scum with Pineapple. Again, no explanation of his vote hop.

---

Vote: Smith

Mostly for his Bowser vote

[bv310]

You're going to have to PM me which head is which, Cream.

[Mr Smith]

my catchup post as I made it for my partner, and was in our QT I needed to make it public:

...

All of that being said,

Unvote

. You seem to actually believe that you're making a town choice. You're not...but you seem to believe it. Plus I like your Bowser hate.

And this is VP. See, you're not so terrible afterall.

That vote wasn't used for a long time (and he did random vote). And the appeasing is scummy as hell.

So, just for the record Mr. Smith, you think it's scummy to have inverted pictures of other people's avatars, but not to generally avoid commenting on things that every other active player is commenting on?

asking questions for the purpose of asking questions: check.


It is really surprising that a Hydra pair like that was stuck so long in the nameclaiming thing. I can keep trying to excuse every annoying thing Crab did by saying VP did it (as I don't know him that much), but that isn't the truth. Crab isn't playing the way he can play.

Faranor is another pair really not living up to there names. Avoiding questions, fake scumhunting, etc. I'm totally happy with my unreasoned vote.

As for the avoidance. Crab doesn't acknowledge that there are people suspecting him. It simply doesn't exist. He is unnaturally trying to avoid being seen as worried. The only thing he keeps saying now he knows I'm in the hydra is that we should drop the "tough guy act", as if we shouldn't be taken serious. That is quite a roundabout way to defend yourself. Normal "tough guy" vp would have gone for my throat with that unreasoned vote and would have DEMANDED a case, in caps. Careful but well-spoken Ojanen would discredit the vote, ask for reasonings, and when she wouldn't get them she would suspect us: this all didn't happen.

nothing happened

. All is going well for Crab. The mislynch is going to happen with the support the pineapple wagon gets. Few people are on the right track and the game is bleeding to its death.


Just take a look at the game as is. It is casual. Nobody is worried. That includes scum. I'm not in favor of a bowser lynch. If town wants to win this game, we need chaos, we need something drastic. If you disagree, make a thread about it in MD. I won't reply about the chaos thing here.

[Mr Smith]

I can explain the bowser vote, though that is obviously my other head. Other head also lost interest and returned to his first solid reads. I can't really blame him, but I do not agree. I take from that vote that he doesn't agree with my reads, which is why I'm still not voting Faranor or Crab. I first need to talk.

[Crab Canon]

@Smith: post 520. myko or Parama?
yes, this is actually relevant to something in my read. if needed/useful will explain after answer.

[Mr Smith]

Yes. Either myko or Parama made that post.

[Crab Canon]

Get lost. You were using effing meta reasoning in the post I wanted know the author of (and you have no idea whether my reason for asking was vague crap or not). I can only assume you don't want me to try and see through you.
In other news, Crab has been and will continue to be up to several weeks very VP. I only post if my hands are uncontrollably shaking from tiredness currently.

Oj