Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[xvart]

@Wicked,

As I've said, I can kinda see the case on Kunk, but when I look closely at it, it doesn't seem too different from the way many people are playing. Tunneling and sheeping, to me, are less super tells in a game like this.

Actually now that you said this outloud I guess I would have to agree as it does sort of mirror my own play in large games in the early stages. I'll have to consider this as I review kunkstar.

not reading =/= not investigator

There are way too many double negatives in this statement for me to understand what you are referring to.

Yeah, that's certainly the case on you... Still waiting for that opinion of obv. scum AV from you.

VP - can you jog my memory or direct me to the post where it is explained why AV is obvscum?

xvart.

[SpyreX]

Back, will catchup in detail but MoI's /proddodge AND Feysal's wasted vote are both awesome.

[Seacore]

Back, will catchup in detail but MoI's /proddodge AND Feysal's wasted vote are both awesome.

What about ElG's wasted vote?

[SpyreX]

The scum wasted vote?

Yea, thats fine.

[Baby Spice]

Why all the rhetorical type questions? If it is scummy,

say so

. If not, then don't bring it up. Also I don't like the attempt to make ElG look scummy for starting to play the game in effect. Would you rather they lurked?
~Sotty

Didn't we have this discussion somewhere else Sotty? If I think it's scummy I do say so. Often, and perhaps senselessly.

Anyway, the questions weren't rhetorical. Indeed I expect the answers to be telling. They weren't directed at anyone specifically, just for people to answer for themselves.

I think it's great that DGB has decided to get involved, but it really does highlight the early El G play though.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, that's certainly the case on you... Still waiting for that opinion of obv. scum AV from you.

VP - can you jog my memory or direct me to the post where it is explained why AV is obvscum?

xvart.

I was referring to point #2 in my MoI case. He had attacked AV on day 1 as pretty much a top suspect, calling SpyreX's case on him "compelling" and then he never did any kind of follow up. Relevant quote below:

2) After agreeing with AV about Furc, he...proceeds to vote AV. Now he claims that he finds Spyrex's case on AV "compelling". That's cool and all, but he never really talks about AV or tries to push any kind of case on him. Then I looked at the iso and I think I found the real reason. MoI says that he doesn't like like AV's post 492 in reply to SpyreX's 351. I suppose it's just a coincidence that AV happened to call MoI out on his massive Furc tunneling and vote him in 492 as well. Vas mentioned something similar to this in his ISO of MoI, but it probably got lost in the fighting.

I also don't like MoI's defense of this point at all.

You think I’m not playing aggressively [with respect to AV] when any number of people have attacked me for being too aggressive regarding Furc? Cool story bro.

How is this even an answer to the accusation? Yeah, you tunneled a VI for 21 pages and then were lost for where to go next, so you dawdled and didn't seriously pursue your next number 1 target AV. That's perfectly scummy and say 'cool story bro' is ridiculously dismissive of something that stands out as legitimately scummy.

MoI has summarily ignored this point against him (and others) and hasn't given any kind of update on his stances, instead choosing to call the points against him rhetoric that aren't worth his time to answer.

[VP Baltar]

Back, will catchup in detail but MoI's /proddodge AND Feysal's wasted vote are both awesome.

What about ElG's wasted vote?

Have you actually looked at Nicodemus? Do you think his play isn't vote worthy?

[VasudeVa]

Why is it so hard to convince people to lynch scum?

(BTW, Computer problems. Less posty till it's okay.)

[manho]

@mod, i'm sorry that i need replacement.

i really need more time for my study, so i'll be leaving the site for an indefinite time. i really enjoy playing mafia with all of you in MS. maybe be i'll come back some day. hope to see you guys then.

[AurorusVox]

I still have a question of you too MoI. I'd appreciate you answering it rather than classing it as part of your "slog" since it's about something different.

[Nicodemus]

Let's not forget that it was Nicodemus that started that line of argumentation for preserving him I believe. More MoI votes.

No, it was me who said I like competing wagons on two scummy-looking players.

I knew that paragraph was going to catch me a lot of flak, but it's how I honestly felt, so I posted it. Both players are scummy, so I voted for the one I felt more comfortable voting.

@MoI: I've gotten an idea of your skill level by reading over the Scummies thread and seeing your name pop up multiple times. I've also read a couple games you played in, and I think you definitely deserve that reputation.

@ElG: My Furpants vote can hardly be seen as a wagon vote, seeing as I was the first (second?) player to vote for him. My vote on you was a pressure vote. The only wagon vote I've made is for kunk, and I outlined the reasons why when I did it.

[El Goosuki]

OMG Nicodemus made a post WITHOUT A VOTE!!!!

Why so shy, suddenly?

please oh please oh pretty please

Can someone kick the chair under Nicodemus? I will be forever grateful. For the love of all that is light and good and happy. Let's lynch Nicodemus.

[El Goosuki]

You know how much I love all of you... please...

-DGB

[Nicodemus]

OMG Nicodemus made a post WITHOUT A VOTE!!!!

Why so shy, suddenly?[/quote]
Yep, it happens.

Because I like my vote where it is.

[Wraith]

Guys, can we lynch GoosukiScum now? I think it's pretty obvious...

[El Goosuki]

Your defense of Nicodemus is noted, you ignoble cultbag!

-DGB

[Triglav]

@ElGooski - case on Nico is lurking scum, yes? Could be down with that.
What are your thoughts on Baby Scum, could you be down with this?

@Wraith - why is it so obvious now? (suspect it isn't)

Dislike Andrius and (shock) Baby Spice for lack of vote record.

@Seacore - you seem to have brain between ears - still super happy with El G lynch?

@MoI - you're voting for VV??? Whassup wit dat? Your vote is being functionally as useless as non posters, that wagon is going nowhere today.
Stop it.

@AV - same thing for Wraith wagon.

You should all join BS wagon which is not bs.

[Andrius]

I'm actively flaking from posting in like, all my games. I'm just really busy and didn't see this trough of activity in the forecast.
Regardless, I'm catching up, and attempting to stay caught up this time. And I'm probably going to start taking weekend V/LA's.

So, for the final time:

Do we have a contingency plan to Rob Four Graves?

Because I will vote to Dispatch Fate, as we need the flip regardless of how town I feel he was, but I want a guarantee that we can handle Four Graves tonight.
Similar Q:

If you aren't voting to Dispatch Fate, why not?

Catching up from my last post...

El Gooski did something that was listed as "/fail" in hito's guide. That was dumb.

Dispatch: RC

I'll wait on Fate, as I'm pretty sure he's town.

I agree with Nicodemus' vote on Furpants, here.

Benmage is town*.
We can keep him alive for awhile longer. Let's say he kills his target tonight. That means he has one successful Murder. Needs one more. N3 he Stalks, N4 he kills again. D5 he is Murderer. All we have to do is watch him carefully. He will remain as town for the next couple days, so until then we are not lynching him because he is town*.

Hi npiau! Long time no see.

At this point I'd be willing to vote Furpants for voting Benmage (aka confirmed townie*), but I'll hold off until reread is finished.

Forcing certain players to Rob Graves sounds like a good idea. Is there any significant reason not to let them? /reads

On closer thought, their investigate action of xvart is worse than useless, since by causing him to hear noise they may have masked other causes of noise.

I would expect a hydra of three to have more common sense than this.

Furcolow is against the plan involving him Robbing Graves. Another lead suggesting he is going Murderer. Watch this one too.

Regarding Benmage

I don't think he's a threat as being a murderer. I think he's a threat because he's cult.

- He did NOT follow through his kill, despite it being the perfect opportunity to do so (the fact that Fate was soulless negates almost all of the drawbacks to vigging him)
- He has since said that he only wanted to catch scum with his kill - but that wasn't his plan yesterday. His plan yesterday was to vig Fate to prove his town-cred. When he thought Fate was scum, he wanted to LYNCH him, not vig him.
- He now won't claim his stalked target, which could mean he's planning on claiming a N2 murdered body as his own kill (a devious plan since the actual killer won't out themselves, as they're doing it secretly).
- ALL of this screams that he never stalked Fate, and that he didn't stalk last night.

I've already outlined the case as to why Benmage is not cult. Please read and understand that Benmage is town. Voting him is as bad as voting Furcolow at this point. (Although, as always, I would love to string Furcolow up from the yard-arm for what he did in [REDACTED].)

And don't you gain an Insanity if you Ward a Dead Person? And we'd know that too, so we'd force scum to lie about insanities some more. Its not like they can pull the wool over us.

Oh and andruis for president for warding me. I'm obviously not warding tonight hint hint.

If you kill me I swear I'll come back and eat your soul.
I'll consider Warding you for another night or so; as long as I know you're still town then we're good.

Did anyone else get attacked last night and survive?

Just trying to get another possibility out of the way...

TNM makes a good point here; if Benmage does out his target Cult can simply Rez them if they're Cultists.

TNM calls VPB too dumb to be a cultist here. Don't know what to think of it yet.

Clarify please, Wraith. How is TNM mafia with Gooksi?

WJR makes a good point about there being only one Murderer left, but when I considered (pre-game) going Murderer I decided that if I did I was to start late; aka, Stalk N1. So I think you're on the right path, but we'll be more certain after another night's reveals.

@ hito: Benmage should kill me if he stalked me.

WRAITH, why do you want someone to Res you? You were passed a Fetish, and are in no danger of being target of a Ritual (IIRC FTR), so you should be fine.
Oh nm. I don't see why Benmage would Stalk you, but whatever.

@ Vas: I see you're using LOTR to defend Wraith. I was gut-reading rewq as scum because of LOTR. (He acted like lost scum in D1 of this game, akin to his being lost for three days as scum traitor in LOTR. And he lurked (IIRC, been awhile since I read whole thread/ISO'd ppl).
No wait, Wraith IS rewq.
That's screwy. :S
Wraith makes a good point here... though all it proves is that Wraith picked up multiple insanities, and Benmage might know this. [?!?] Am I right?

I saw someone mention A Song of Ice and Fire, and the only thing stopping me from starting the series is that I'd be too addicted and go bat-shit crazy.

Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy,

when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

Anyone want to link me to this EG post?

Sadly, being Stalked doesn't make you confirmed town, Wraith.

So there are people voting Nicodemus. Por que, ppl?

Furcolow calling for Plum's lynch is horrid.

In #2311 Furcolow thinks he is Andrius? WTF?!

Furcolow offering to Stalk and kill MoI is bad for 2 reasons: (2325)
-Stalling lynch of potential cultist [?]
-Furthering his inevitable career as Murderer. HRMMMMM

While wondering about manho, we see him replace out. Still gut read him as scum, but an ISO is required.

You can see my "tagging" went downhill as time went on. lol


Couple select ISOs/defenses from earlier:
Fate will probably flip town, but a flip would be great nonetheless.

Fate

Early pissing contest with Benmage muddied the waters with my read on Fate. But he's been improving substantially, and I can name him Investigator in confidence.

Though the vote-hop to Plum was confusing as hell. If we have ScumA with BIG WAGON and ScumB with no wagon who should we lynch? The one who has more votes on him, obviously. Its not like Plum gets an extra night action.

AurorosVox

First post comes across relatively pro-town. Most likely honest-to-goodness Investigator. But he does say that he is "worried" by Furcolow's play. This is important now because he worries over Furcolow going Murderer. Stay tuned, we're coming back to it. Here's the text:

Whilst this plea looks pro-town on first glance, it makes me worried that Fur is already planning on going the killer route. By stressing that town can win if they band together, by stressing that no one needs to make a second kill - if he then goes on to become a murderer, he may have dissuaded some people from taking that route, thus increasing his chances. Moreover, finding out who stalked also tells him who his competition could be later in the game.

I do like the following push on Furcolow. While we didn't net a Cultist_Furc we definitely need to watch Furcolow.

Further into the ISO we have more comments on Furcolow, that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Well, I'm not willing to vote for Furc at the moment because I do think he's town. So there will be no wagon jumping dance party today. But I'm keeping an eye on him because I think there's a chance that he could have gone/be thinking of going the killer route. Being a killer = being town today. There is no contradiction there.

Which is, ironically, what I use to confirm Benmage as town right now. He's not Cult, therein Town*.

I'm not 100% sure on Furcolow going Murderer. But the last game went for

ten game-days

, and it takes roughly

six game-day

to win as Murderer. Taking N0 (and potentially N1) off isn't too risky for him.

I agree that Baby Spice is contradictory, but they are a hydra (or have I just been wrong all this time?) and they have communication problems, just like LB. Also, I understand her [?] belief that Benmage is town NOW, but probably not in a couple of nights.

Does this mean you think that Furc Stalked N0?

Like I (may have) said, Furc might have Stalked and got lucky. But he could be taking a night (or two) to solidify his status as pro-town. A player with 2 insanities on D2 is scummy. A player who started slowly as Murderer and has 4 insanities on D6 is under less scrutiny. That's how I'd approach the deal.

Reasons for voting ReaperCharlie make me happy.

Will conduct some more reading/ISOs on MoI/xvart/Nicodemus/Goosuki/*someone whose name I forgot*
I don't understand the Nico wagon, so I'm going to look into that a bit, as well as compare the Gooski/MoI/kunk competition. xvart is still scum.
For now, I'll vote scum. Will look into competing wagons later and pick one. Will make case on xvart being scum too.

Vote: xvart

<3,
Andy

p.s. No timetable for my next big post. I'll try to comment regularly so as to not fall behind, but large amounts of ISO-ing and work will have to wait for when I'm not swamped with schoolwork.

p.p.s. Furcolow is guaranteed going Murderer. Might make a case on that too. We should probably make time for a Murderer lynch somewhere down the line...

[Seacore]

Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy,

when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

Anyone want to link me to this EG post?

El G: what is the scummiest thing that MoI has done and why?

Someone said he was scummy and not very active, I forget who, I also recall he was on our dodgy player list yesterday for gut read. Most importantly, he's the only viable alternative to our own lynch. To continue being candid, our play has been so bad, we would probably scream for our own lynch if we didn't know our alignment.

-DGB

[Seacore]

Night is approaching, so we need to organise our grave robs.

Can somebody please post two possibilities? A 3 grave possibility and a 4 grave possibility?

I think it's dumb not to flip Fate. More information is better, and tomorrow we'll be in the exact same position (or worse, if more people go murderer).

In other news I'm considering stalking a certain somebody, since I'm not very happy that the lynch is failing. But stalking should probably wait til a bit later in the game.

[Trilobite]

Night is approaching, so we need to organise our grave robs.

Can somebody please post two possibilities? A 3 grave possibility and a 4 grave possibility?

Have a proposal?

I think it's dumb not to flip Fate. More information is better, and tomorrow we'll be in the exact same position (or worse, if more people go murderer).

I agree. We should get a dispatch majority done.

[VP Baltar]

I agree that we should be dispatching Fate today and really that should have already happened. Reposting my graverob plan:

RC = Furc, [kunkstar7, MoI, El Goo, Wraith, Benmage, etc.]
Fate = VP, Baby Spice
LB = Wicked, Baby Spice
Lynchee = Hito, [kunkstar7, MoI, El Goo, Wraith, Benmage, etc.]

It would seem our choices for the second scummy grave robber would be between El Goo and kunk. My opinion is that we should just have whichever is the second wagon for the day rob the other two graves. Based on the votecount from page 93, that would be kunkstar atm.

[Andrius]

Ok, we have a somewhat working plan. I don't see why we need to put this off any longer.

Dispatch: Fate

[Seacore]

Seacore's thoughts about graverobbing

Corpse dust

: I may be unpopular for saying this, but I don't think it's a big deal. For it to be a factor, we need to have somebody rez the ritual victim, and not two people rezzing the ritual victim. Or alternatively, 2 people and not 3 people. Also, a murderer needs to not attack that person, or whatever.
Do cultist want corpse dust? Of course.
Do we want to stop them from getting it? Of course.
Is it the end of the world if they do get it? No.

With that premise, I don't think we need to double up as much.

Wicked

: I think Wicked should grave rob twice, and I don't think Wicked needs to be backed up by anybody else, since he's the least likely to be cult.

@ Wicked, do you agree to this?

Furc

Furc should double grave rob. I'd be happier with Furc being backed up though.

@ Furc, do you agree to this?

Benmage

Benmage should single grave rob, I'd love him to double rob, but he's not going to agree to that.

@ Benmage, do you agree to this?

Somebody else

I'd pick someone I find scummy to do the last one, forcing them to gain an insanity point and making it harder to hide others. However, it seems most people don't find my scum list that scummy. Would people agree to making ElG do it?

So it would work something like this

Potential Graverob Roster

Fate - Wicked
RC - Wicked
LB - Furc and Benmage
Today's lynch - Furc and X

Thoughts?

[Seacore]

I have no objection to VP's list and system. I particularly like the idea of getting the second wagonee to grave rob.

I'm curious what people, VP in particular, think of my minimalist approach?