Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Furcolow]

you're allowed to vote in a quote?

[I Am Innocent]

Furc, that vote was included in a quote from Day 1 Phase 2.

As for this day, my vote is already on Percy.

[Sotty7]

Hey Sotty. try reading the rest of my post that you quoted from where I answer your question.

Then answer this question. Why did you jump off of a wagon you started when it hit L-1?

I read it and found it ridiculous. Am I scummy for voting you or what? You post only talked about me staying on the wagon.

I didn't know the Lrd wagon was at lynch-1 as the vote count was wrong. I also said the Lrd wagon got beefed up but there was no knowledge of lynch-1 vote.

= = = = = =

Another thing that's bothering me is that open, all-vanilla setups are, by a long way, the best kind to bus in. I don't want to start the conspiracy theories too early, but I would actually like to hear from everyone what they think about the possibility of Dry being bussed by at least one buddy.

It's possible, I'm not willing to rule anything out at this point. Bussing tends to be over used as a tell from what I have seen. My new approach is not to be too quick to write someone off just for being on a scum wagon. If a player is scummy but voted for a scum lynch I won't give them too much credit for it.

= = = = = =

On first read Mina's case+vote on Elmo does look pretty good. I'm interested to see a response.

IAI's attack on Thor is yummy to me, I really like the pressure. IAI, what shady players have voted for Babyspice?

And yeah, I know I have been slightly slacking in this game. I'm on a bit of a mafia downswing these days. I'm trying to power though it.

[Benmage]

I did not like Mina's post/case nor vote. Its another imo unnecessary tangent. Despite the fact that I found the case weak.

Percy keeps getting pushed back on her todo list and I dislike the stall.

Percy also seems to disappear when he can't make belittling posts my way. You'd think he'd be pushing the BS lynch harder seeing as it had some support....but then that would prove a mislynch....how many blind mislynchings can he get away with?

Mina, not taking me up on my counter-proposal?

Deadline Monday 11 PM site time November 28

[I Am Innocent]

Day1 Phase 2 Percy Nikanor and Mina voted Baby Spice

Day2 Phase 1 Percy and Thor voted Baby Spice

Benmage is right, this stalling is wasting time for Phase 2 of Day 2

.

[Thor665]

tl:dr - it's a reply to Minawall, it shall be a lot of quote boxes. My apologies, it's her fault

Thor, why did you settle for a compromise vote on Lrdwhyt so early in the day? Now wasn't the time to decide to switch to whoever had the biggest wagon. If you really think you've found scum, shouldn't you have been trying to sell the I am Innocent or Baby Spice lynches to us, instead of just going with the flow?

I am trying to sell IAI (just as he's trying to sell me ) and I think there's a reason neither of us are voting the other, and that's because we each realize at this stage it's a wasted vote. IAI's case hinges on me as Percy's partner and my case on him just lacks any real support - therefore it's a wasted vote.

I also think I gave the BS wagon a fair amount of time to gather support - "early" is pretty subjective here.

Also, what was your opinion of I am Innocent's meltdown and self-vote early on Day One? Did it strengthen or weaken your scumread of him?

That actually weakened it, but only exceedingly slightly. I tend to consider self votes an anti-town tell for the most part with town underlying veins. His was extra weird to consider because of the point in his wagon he opted to self-vote, the timing almost made it seem false to me "hey look, I self-voted, *not* scum here, amirite?" but some of the pissiness felt real. In the end I decided it was a big ball of WIFOM and mostly just stuck to the weak cases + constant bellowing of how right he is as scum play inherently and a viable case without sweating the self-vote.

For the record, I think I am Innocent has been suffering from a horrible case of confirmation bias today, but his trying to lock you into give town reads out of his conviction that you're struggling for suspects because he's nailed the scumteam has pretty much clinched that he's town for me. It's just an utterly townish mindset, particularly from an inexperienced player.

Maybe, except that my strong town reads were already out there and i'd agreed with the Lrdwhyt wagon long before I switched to it. Basically I feel that for someone who is so absolutely convinced I'm scum he's really not following anything I post. Also, he's mudslinging like a madman at me and drops accusations after making them as though he really doesn't care about them, but rather about how bad they'll make me look from the initial blather. Really feels like case padding, and I feel the same way about how he's treating Percy.

Can you explain your read on Elmo for me? Truth be told, his play today has completely nullified my earlier townread. First he was unhelpful and flippant and brushed off of my questions early on (he reminded me a bit of Mikujin popping up out of nowhere in

ACoK

, after having ignored pages of discussion, just to make a snide comment about douchebags), and since then he hasn't taken a single firm stance. But what I find really off is that he hasn't even reacted to the fact that his one major scum read (Red Coyote) was wrong.

Uf da, you really have to pull in a Mikajin reference?

Let's sum up his Day 2 stuff for towniness very briefly; he's not on the Percy wagon and seems to want to think about it, consider alternatives, and discuss his thoughts. Instead of hopping on the certain wagon +1 *or* championing either of the viable alternate wagons that have sprung up he wants to *think* some more. Make sense now?

[Thor665]

Day1 Phase 2 Percy Nikanor and Mina voted Baby Spice

Day2 Phase 1 Percy and Thor voted Baby Spice

And up until I and Percy voted her Day 2 she was a scum read for you, so...yes, super weird that we would have a scum read on her.

[Furcolow]

we have over a week
it's not like we are hard-pressed

[Percy]

I've had an enormous weekend. Currently too hungover. Posting within 24 hours. Soz lol!

[Baby Spice]

Personally Mina, I was happy leaving my vote on Lrdwhyt while I re-read and things, rather than throw my vote around willy nilly or wagon shop.

Ben, you do realise that when Percy was at L-1, you're the one who unvoted?

So we have both Benmage and Sotty starting wagons, on different people, and then jumping off when they reached L-1. I have no idea what to make of that, though it is hinky to then see Ben asking why the Percy wagon stalled.

Unvote

Vote Sotty

Sotty/Lrdwhyt are my top pairing for scum, with Ben as a possible. If ben is scum then I'd have to think I was wrong on Percy despite the supertowntell and general early townieness. (Though supertowntell looses strength if Ben is scum)

[jasonT1981]

What is this super town tell though BS... you keep decalring town town town, but ignore questions asking what your town read is

[Sotty7]

Benmage is right, this stalling is wasting time for Phase 2 of Day 2

.

You realize this is a week away right? Who is stalling?

What is this super town tell though BS... you keep decalring town town town, but ignore questions asking what your town read is

Those aren't the only questions she is ignoring. She votes me while ignoring the questions both myself and Mina asked her. It's ridiculous and scummy.

[I Am Innocent]

Who is stalling?

Everyone not voting Percy. And the people who haven't voted and the people who are on solo wagons.

***********

Here was Zach's last vote count:

4th Vote Count of D2 P1

Baby Spice - 4 (Percy, Sotty7, Thor665, JasonT1981)
Percy - 3 (I Am Innocent, KaleiÐoscøpe, Benmage)
Lrdwhyt - 3 (Mina, Locke Lamora, Baby Spice)
I Am Innocent - 1 (Furcolow)

Not Voting: (Elmo, Lrdwhyt)

If I made any mistakes please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for Day 2 is Monday, December 6 at 8am CST

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.

I believe three changes have happened since then to make the new unofficial vote count:

Baby Spice - 4 (Percy, Sotty7, Thor665, JasonT1981)
Percy - 3 (I Am Innocent, KaleiÐoscøpe, Benmage)
Elmo - 2 (Mina, Furcolow)
Lrdwhyt - 1 (Locke Lamora)
Sotty7 - 1 (Baby Spice)

Not Voting: (Elmo, Lrdwhyt)

Elmo, Lrdwhyt, you need to get your votes on someone. And we go from there.

[I Am Innocent]

LrdWhyt has made on post since 11/12. He needs a prod.

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP: on = one

[Benmage]

Personally Mina, I was happy leaving my vote on Lrdwhyt while I re-read and things, rather than throw my vote around willy nilly or wagon shop.

Ben, you do realise that when Percy was at L-1, you're the one who unvoted?

So we have both Benmage and Sotty starting wagons, on different people, and then jumping off when they reached L-1. I have no idea what to make of that, though it is hinky to then see Ben asking why the Percy wagon stalled.

Unvote

Vote Sotty

Sotty/Lrdwhyt are my top pairing for scum, with Ben as a possible. If ben is scum then I'd have to think I was wrong on Percy despite the supertowntell and general early townieness. (Though supertowntell looses strength if Ben is scum)

Do you even read before you post? Percy never even got to L-1, he was L-2 with the next largest wagon at L-4(Red's)...but he managed to wiggle himself out. When Red's increased to L-2, and Percy's decreased I unvoted.

Now read before you speak. You're about to be hung, and one reason you aren't dead. Is me.

[Benmage]

LrdWhyt has made on post since 11/12. He needs a prod.

@MOD

[Lrdwhyt]

I think I retract my statement on Mina's scumminess. Don't know what I was thinking.

(Havingfitz, Locke Lamora, Benmage, KaleiÐoscøpe, Sotty7, Elmo, I Am Innocent, Furcolow, JasonT1981)

with this argument, you need to take into consideration
1) scum can bus
2) i am not perfect
3) i am not saying this argument is the be-all-end-all

These people were not on the dry-fit wagon in which we lynched scum:

Percy - I read him as town. I haven't seen him play as scum, though. He feels pro-town to me.
Nikanor - I read him as town as well. I feel like he requires a lot of evidence to vote/unvote/change votes.
RedCoyote - I definitely read him as dry-fit's scumbuddy, hence my vote.
Mina - I will have a better read on her shortly
Lrdwhyt - KingDavid made the same mistake I made. town.
Baby Spice - I guess that leaves babyspice as scum? null read from me


The only difference between the people on Percy's wagon, and the people on dry-fits, are that a few aren't on there (myself, for instance), and redcoyote IS.

RedCoyote, what makes you so sure of percy, yet you wouldn't vote dry-fit? why why why

the thing we need to look at, though, as a town is who can help us if they are town. Percy could. Could lrdwhyt? I don't believe so.

VOTE: lrdwhyt
2 wagons are a go
houston, we have liftoff

It doesn't matter whether you think I'm good or not, your voting someone you think is town is suspicious. And it's not like you thought I had changed that much, this looks like a bandwagon vote with a dumb excuse.

This post was made after Dry-fit had already been lynched, so there's not really much point in saying that he was slightly scummy.

That was one of the posts I was referring to. There's another comment that refers to it before RC gets lynched, where you say:

RC's going after jason's slip doesn't make him look any better.

My point is, at the time of your first catch-up post where you talk about Jason, you say you've read the game. You've obviously familiarised yourself with Jason's posts, and you know enough to say that he's not that scummy and that there are better lynches out there, mentioning a DF vote without saying why you'd want to vote him. You don't vote, you don't focus on players who you think are scummy, and you don't comment on the players who jumped on Jason for supposedly making a slip - you just say it's 'dumb'. By the time we're nearing the RC lynch, this 'dumb' attack on Jason has turned into one of your reasons for backing his lynch. If that's your attitude to those who jumped on the slip, and DF was one of the most blatant attackers of Jason for this reason, why did you neither spend your first post looking at DF's play, nor vote him for doing something that you later state is scummy, yet still felt the need to include him in a brief passing note?

I didn't vote him because, as I had stated, I wanted to give him a chance to get on and respond to the accusations before doing such a thing. And I don't necessarily feel that those who thought jason had scumslipped were suspicious - just that they were wrong. It is more likely for scum to jump on such a thing than town. Also, I wasn't really backing his lynch - I thought him a better lynch than Percy.

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

[Benmage]

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

Go ahead and restate the Elmo case that you're so fond of.

[Lrdwhyt]

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

Go ahead and restate the Elmo case that you're so fond of.

What are you talking about?

[Benmage]

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

Go ahead and restate the Elmo case that you're so fond of.

What are you talking about?

You're piggybacking on others people working merely saying you "like" the case.

State the case for me. Whats not to understand? I'm not asking anything difficult.

[Baby Spice]

Do you even read before you post? Percy never even got to L-1, he was L-2 with the next largest wagon at L-4(Red's)...but he managed to wiggle himself out. When Red's increased to L-2, and Percy's decreased I unvoted.

You're part right and yes I made a slight mistake.

Percy was at L-2 when you unvoted, but you were the one to start the run from Percy.
Doesn't change my question though.

Sotty, what questions? I believe the only one was did I find your vote scummy, and I think me calling you my top scumspect kind of answered that. But le me make this clear.

Sotty7's unvote of Lrdwhyt and vote of me was scummy, scummy, scummy! It reaked of sotty panic jumping off of a bus she had started.
Nothing here that I've said is new, except for repeating scummy a few times, so when Sotty asked her question I had already answered it. Again.

Actually, my posts have already adressed Mina's questions as well Sotty.

When Percy was run up the pole, and there was more than one, each time he didn't vote for the biggest alternate wagon. He voted for the player he thought was scum. This is mega town, (assuming that Benmage isn't scum with Percy). I had a town read on Percy from D1P1, but this one action just cements him as town.

(If Benmage is scum with Percy then the wagon looses much of the pressure on Percy due to the way Ben was/is driving it and he could then afford to risk faking this major tell)

[Lrdwhyt]

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

Go ahead and restate the Elmo case that you're so fond of.

What are you talking about?

You're piggybacking on others people working merely saying you "like" the case.

State the case for me. Whats not to understand? I'm not asking anything difficult.

No, I did state why I liked it.

It's on page 29 if you want to read it.

[Benmage]

Anyways, I do like the Elmo case, especially his uninteresting comment and lack of stance.

VOTE: Elmo

Go ahead and restate the Elmo case that you're so fond of.

What are you talking about?

You're piggybacking on others people working merely saying you "like" the case.

State the case for me. Whats not to understand? I'm not asking anything difficult.

No, I did state why I liked it.

It's on page 29 if you want to read it.

You didnt post on pg 29....I am asking YOUUUUUU to restalte the case. Why are you being so difficult? No reason to be.

Use quotes, bullets, summarization...anything but do not stall again.

[Benmage]

Percy was at L-2 when you unvoted,

but you were the one to start the run from Percy.

Doesn't change my question though.

-After it was obvious the lynch wasn't going through.
-What question?