Objection Redux - It's all over bar the shouting!

[magnus_orion]

@M_O, is your reason for finding Rhinox scummy basically the same as Gamma?

Basically.

@VV: As I understand, you are effectively stating you intend not to make an attempt, or serious attempt, to read into fate's alignment during the course of this game, for whatever reasons, or as a consequence of whatever. Mainly this is an understanding brought on by considering the implications of your deference to power roles and the scum nk in regards to fate.
In addition, upon this being pointed out you made comments to the effect that fate is "unreadable", and that he should be vigged because his actions will either be a serious detriment to the town due to his tendency to gambit (implying you think fate is town) or nked because he tends to tunnel on scum, which is really useful to the town (implying you think fate is town). If you interpret your first "detriment to the town" as implying either town or scum, it still leaves the question of why vigging him would be good play given that he tends to tunnel on scum and hasn't attempted, at least, hasn't appeared to attempt a gambit which will be a serious detriment to the town. In addition, this would appear to be advocating scum night kill a player whom is potentially very useful to the town.
So we have you
1. Directing the vig, solely based on policy of what could come
2. Advocating the night kill of a player, noting that he has a tendency to tunnel on scum
While not necessarily scum-motivated, such actions tend to be avoided from a town view-point.

[magnus_orion]

EBWOP: My question to VV is whether or not this is a proper understanding of what he's said, or whether he feels additional warranted considerations are not taken into account.

[Fate]

Id like to point out to the rest of the class how Rhinox was arbitrarily dropped from VVs scum reads, and replaced with a horrible stretch and misrepresentation of SpyreXs play.

+100 Style points for whoever hammers VV without a claim. Wait a few days for wheels to be greased etc. but yeah VVscum always stalls.

[Faraday]

Vote count 1.4

Vi (1) -

Papa Zito

VasudeVa (7)

Sociopath, Fate, AlmasterGM, SpyreX[, Vezokipiraka, UncertainKitten, Ellibereth

Fate (1)

Vi

Rhinox (2

GammaGooey, Magnus_orion

Vezokpiraka (2)

Jahudo, Rhinox

AlmasterGM (1)

VasudeVa

Not voting: (0)

No one

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline is December 7th at 1pm GMT
Any mistakes in the VC point 'em out and all that.

It being yanksgiving I guess people may not be around as much, so V/la's noted and all that.

[Gammagooey]

So Fate's restatement of the case on VV AND the Rhinox biznez that's accompanying it means that my Rhinox vote is outdated and boring.
BUT I'm not hammering yet.

Not because of the claim shenanigans, although I would like a claim before a hammer.
It's because Socio and Vi need to get the hell in herez and state their opinions on the lynch before it happens. Rhinox's opinion on it would be nice too but if VV flips scum he needs to get wagoned so fast tomorrow that the wagon can beat out the speed of sound, regardless of what he has to say now.
Waiting time startssssss...now.

@Mod: VV is voting twice in the votecount (Vi+AGM) when he should just be voting AGM.

[VasudeVa]

Rhinox vote is because of opportunism
-snip-

Yawn.

---

Gamma, is that a threat for the hammer?

[Gammagooey]

Not right now.

And Fate IS right about that not matching up with Rhinox's 75.

[VasudeVa]

@VV: As I understand, you are effectively stating you intend not to make an attempt, or serious attempt, to read into fate's alignment during the course of this game, for whatever reasons, or as a consequence of whatever. Mainly this is an understanding brought on by considering the implications of your deference to power roles and the scum nk in regards to fate.
In addition, upon this being pointed out you made comments to the effect that fate is "unreadable", and that he should be vigged because his actions will either be a serious detriment to the town due to his tendency to gambit (implying you think fate is town) or nked because he tends to tunnel on scum, which is really useful to the town (implying you think fate is town). If you interpret your first "detriment to the town" as implying either town or scum, it still leaves the question of why vigging him would be good play given that he tends to tunnel on scum and hasn't attempted, at least, hasn't appeared to attempt a gambit which will be a serious detriment to the town. In addition, this would appear to be advocating scum night kill a player whom is potentially very useful to the town.
So we have you
1. Directing the vig, solely based on policy of what could come
2. Advocating the night kill of a player, noting that he has a tendency to tunnel on scum
While not necessarily scum-motivated, such actions tend to be avoided from a town view-point.

Well, I'm guessing you've never played with Fate before! This guy is nigh unreadable. I hope he fucking gets vigged ASAP. He does the same shit as Town and scum AND gets away with it because of his extremely annoying personality.

1.) If directing the vig to do the awesome thing by killing the 'possibly anti-Town unreadable player who gets away with the shit he does' is wrong, then hell lynch me for all I care. I will soo fucking laugh when I flip Town you all rip Fate a new asshole. (And then maybe proceed to lynching AGM/Spy + Fate vig or something.). Like or not, I see this as optimal play. Is it wrong to be opinionated on how to deal with certain players?

2.) Fate only ever Tunnels on scum when: a)He gets lucky and/or b) He's not being stupid. He's clearly being stupid now. I mean, LOOK AT THE FUCKING CASE ON ME. It is soo fucking ridiculous I DONT EVEN. He's twisting my statements like they are scumtells

when they are not

. I have argued that my actions are NOT scumtells and he procceds to twist it even more. I'm surprised people are actually buying that shit.

[VasudeVa]

Not right now.

And Fate IS right about that not matching up with Rhinox's 75.

Alright. What's your take on me then? Do you disagree with Fate? What do you make of all the wagon hops on me? What do you think of my cases on SpyreX and AlmGM?

[Gammagooey]

IMO Fate is basically seeing everything you do as coming from VV-scum, but his thing about your vote on Rhinox is damn good And him dissappearing from your big reads post with AGM and SpyreX AND him being my biggest scum read means that if I'm right about Rhinox-scum you are Very likely to be his partner, and if I'm not right about Rhinox-scum you're still likely scum.

Vezok and Elli's hops on you are meh but that doesn't really have to do with YOUR alignment.

If you get lynched today and flip town I will look at AGM more closely, but without knowledge of your alignment your AGM case is basically worthless, as it's basically:
"Hey AGM should know me better from playing with me and is getting my alignment wrong without asking many questions."

Pretty much all of the case on SpyreX except the Que stuff is stupid, and I don't see why him voting you again when his previous vote was back the the RVS is scummy. As for the vig thing as I see it it's pretty much like this-
VV- Fate is a good vig shot + investigate+ nk
SpyreX- That's scummy +other things you done iz scummy BLOOD FOR BLOOD GOD

votes vv

Spy- Oh guys who would you shoot with gun
VV- That's scummy

Aaaaaaaaaand I don't see Spy asking who's a good vig shot as scummy at all.

(Btw Spy I'd shoot Rhinox)

[UncertainKitten]

VV, answer me this. Fate has a meta for the MASSIVE CAPITAL LETTERS WALLS OF FUCKING TEXT MY WAY OR THE FUCKING HIGHWAY play that we all know and...um...know.

If he were scum, he could EASILY have continued this FIRE AND BRIMSTONE DISINTIGRATE YOU UNDER THE WEIGHT OF LETTERS PLAY without anyone calling him out on it.

So, if he is scum, why did he give me a VERY reasonable point by point, some meta links, and overall a decent case when he could have stuck to yelling about it? What's the scum intent?

[SpyreX]

HAHAHA Oooou I love this game:

SpyreX has left a bad taste in my mouth. He enters the game with a vote on me as a counterwagon stuff, maybe. That's all fiiine and dandy. Then asks: Why would Fate be Vigbait? (of course, he <3s Fate, directly contradicting his I H8 META STANCE but whutevs. That's how you play with Fate, I guess.). He quotes lots of things with 'Que?' when I don't even understand why the fuck he's even bringing them up. (And he refused to answer when I asked him.)He then votes me while his vote is already on me. I have pointed out that it's slightly scummy that he has done so. He flat-out ignores it. Doesn't even acknowledge it's existence, even if it's a pretty valid point.

And thenn~ here's the clincher. He then questions UK about who she'll vig if she had a bullet. He had suuch a huge problem with me about my choice of bullet to the faise(Fate). But proceeds to ask people what is essentially the same question! This is just WOW. Why would he be asking people about BULLETz to the faise anyway?

1.) Actually I came in saying we should never lynch or kill and just hang out. Then I voted for you because its awesome to vote for a Vuvuzela.
2.) The simple fact you're saying the <3 is for META and NOT WHAT HE DID IN THIS GAME I.E. PLAY IT is so awesome I have nothing more to say.
3.) http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2639896 <--- NO SIR DIDNT ANSWER TIA
4.) You're saying my unvoting, voting you is awesome and valid? Cool. Not a function of the difference of a random vote to a real one or at the end of a lot of words directly relating to you.
5.) See, I'm pretty sure you actually know the difference between "Ohh, Fate will be vigged/investigated/nk'd" being garbage and asking one of my town reads who they'd shoot if they had the chance. You know, like I asked Fate?

And I'm obviously asking because I'm a vig, duh. No other reasons could ever exist for asking questions like that. Truest of stories.

ACCIO LOS ROPOS

P.S. Preview edit THERE IS THE GAMMA I LIKE. GOOD KEEP SORTING OUT THE HAT NEEDS WORDS

[VasudeVa]

VV, answer me this. Fate has a meta for the MASSIVE CAPITAL LETTERS WALLS OF FUCKING TEXT MY WAY OR THE FUCKING HIGHWAY play that we all know and...um...know.

If he were scum, he could EASILY have continued this FIRE AND BRIMSTONE DISINTIGRATE YOU UNDER THE WEIGHT OF LETTERS PLAY without anyone calling him out on it.

So, if he is scum, why did he give me a VERY reasonable point by point, some meta links, and overall a decent case when he could have stuck to yelling about it? What's the scum intent?

First off, I didn't say Fate is scum. I'm saying he should be vigged, for the good of Town.

Secondly, in the event that Fate is scum, it has to look believable. Otherwise other people can easily call him out on it.

I am keeping my options open to Fate scum, as this argument is has basically topped his previous number #1 lameass case EVAR. (Although I do not ever want to be in the situation wherein I actually need to get a read on him). Previous #1 was the LOTR Mafia Case. That was horrible, but this is distinctly moreso horrible. In LOTR Maf, Fate had some stupid theory about a dumb scum gambit regarding. It was stupid, but at least it was at least possible since it was night-action theorizing heavy and all. Here, he's quoting every single one of my ISO then smearing and interpreting it into the SCUMTELL OF THE NEW MILLENIUM. Which is stupid in it's own right, and not scummy. (The Rhinox stuff is legit though, but it sorta kinda improves it from LVL99STUPIDCASE to LVL20STUPIDCASE.)

Pretty much all of the case on SpyreX except the Que stuff is stupid, and I don't see why him voting you again when his previous vote was back the the RVS is scummy. As for the vig thing as I see it it's pretty much like this-
VV- Fate is a good vig shot + investigate+ nk
SpyreX- That's scummy +other things you done iz scummy BLOOD FOR BLOOD GOD votes vv
Spy- Oh guys who would you shoot with gun
VV- That's scummy

Aaaaaaaaaand I don't see Spy asking who's a good vig shot as scummy at all.

(Btw Spy I'd shoot Rhinox)

Ergh. I was arguing that it was a slip of his scummindset. See, scum don't care who they lynch as long as it isn't them right? Then Spy not knowing where his vote previously was(already on me), and then voting is pretty transparent in his lack of care. The unvote is quite telling, IMO. It says to me 'Oh, who was I voting? Nevermind, I found a new mislynch!'. That's the argument.

The next argument was this. I essentially answered what will be his question. However, he is giving me shit for answering

what he wants to know

. I think he's just looking for reasons to vote me. Agreeing with Fate alone would look pretty bad for him. And If I'm going to ask a question that another player answered before I ask the question... Would I give them shit for that? No. It doesn't make sense. Hence, Spyscum.

I do like bringing along my own theories into this game, I'm a Psych Major FFS.

1.) Actually I came in saying we should never lynch or kill and just hang out. Then I voted for you because its awesome to vote for a Vuvuzela.
2.) The simple fact you're saying the <3 is for META and NOT WHAT HE DID IN THIS GAME I.E. PLAY IT is so awesome I have nothing more to say.
3.) viewtopic.php?p=2639896#p2639896 <--- NO SIR DIDNT ANSWER TIA
4.) You're saying my unvoting, voting you is awesome and valid? Cool. Not a function of the difference of a random vote to a real one or at the end of a lot of words directly relating to you.
5.) See, I'm pretty sure you actually know the difference between "Ohh, Fate will be vigged/investigated/nk'd" being garbage and asking one of my town reads who they'd shoot if they had the chance. You know, like I asked Fate?[/i]

Great! A WIFOMclaim!Man, you screaming death clanners...I have no words. Although I, on principle, don't avoid games with people.

3.) Answered the question my ass. You just asked irrelevant questions that didn't even make sense with my original questions. I don't understand how that is supposed to be an answer. I don't even see how they are

relevant

to the discussion at hand. It ends in a question mark, and has a condescending tone which leads me to think. 'Okay cool. He's probably doing some rhetorical questions or something.'.
4.) See above response to Gamma
5.) What? Let me get this straight. Because I answered your question pre-hoc(is there even a -hoc for pre-emptive...thingie?)....I'm scum? And I didn't say 'FATE WILL BE ETC'. I said, a lot of the following is implied, 'Fate is Vig/Cop/NKbait for the awesome Cop/Vig/Scum.' which I have explained throughout my posts.

[magnus_orion]

@VV: As I understand, you are effectively stating you intend not to make an attempt, or serious attempt, to read into fate's alignment during the course of this game, for whatever reasons, or as a consequence of whatever. Mainly this is an understanding brought on by considering the implications of your deference to power roles and the scum nk in regards to fate.
In addition, upon this being pointed out you made comments to the effect that fate is "unreadable", and that he should be vigged because his actions will either be a serious detriment to the town due to his tendency to gambit (implying you think fate is town) or nked because he tends to tunnel on scum, which is really useful to the town (implying you think fate is town). If you interpret your first "detriment to the town" as implying either town or scum, it still leaves the question of why vigging him would be good play given that he tends to tunnel on scum and hasn't attempted, at least, hasn't appeared to attempt a gambit which will be a serious detriment to the town. In addition, this would appear to be advocating scum night kill a player whom is potentially very useful to the town.
So we have you
1. Directing the vig, solely based on policy of what could come
2. Advocating the night kill of a player, noting that he has a tendency to tunnel on scum
While not necessarily scum-motivated, such actions tend to be avoided from a town view-point.

Well, I'm guessing you've never played with Fate before! This guy is nigh unreadable. I hope he fucking gets vigged ASAP. He does the same shit as Town and scum AND gets away with it because of his extremely annoying personality.

1.) If directing the vig to do the awesome thing by killing the 'possibly anti-Town unreadable player who gets away with the shit he does' is wrong, then hell lynch me for all I care. I will soo fucking laugh when I flip Town you all rip Fate a new asshole. (And then maybe proceed to lynching AGM/Spy + Fate vig or something.). Like or not, I see this as optimal play. Is it wrong to be opinionated on how to deal with certain players?

2.) Fate only ever Tunnels on scum when: a)He gets lucky and/or b) He's not being stupid. He's clearly being stupid now. I mean, LOOK AT THE FUCKING CASE ON ME. It is soo fucking ridiculous I DONT EVEN. He's twisting my statements like they are scumtells

when they are not

. I have argued that my actions are NOT scumtells and he procceds to twist it even more. I'm surprised people are actually buying that shit.

So, to further my understanding, if Fate rarely tunnels on scum, why do you believe the chances he will be nked were sufficiently high as to include it in the initial list of possible fates for Fate? IIRC, your reasoning for asserting Fate would probably be nked was that he tends to tunnel on scum, however, you are now asserting that he only rarely does so? Or am I to understand Fate get's lucky/is not stupid fairly often, and his, as you claim, "being stupid" in this case, is the rare event?

[SpyreX]

Thats not a wifom claim.

Seriously, what did you expect to "WHY IS HE ASKING WHO THEY'D SHOOT"

But, hey, it looked like the rope summons worked:

3.) Answered the question my ass. You just asked irrelevant questions that didn't even make sense with my original questions. I don't understand how that is supposed to be an answer. I don't even see how they are relevant to the discussion at hand. It ends in a question mark, and has a condescending tone which leads me to think. 'Okay cool. He's probably doing some rhetorical questions or something.'.

What does having a wagon change about questioning why you're a not a bad lynch?

Why would Vi having a wagon alter AT ALL you being a bad lynch? It's day 1. No matter the circumstances you should being going "I am a bad lynch" as town. Not the snide "Ohh look the wagoned says I'm a bad lynch".

How does bringing in THAT game follow along the "risky gambits that destroy town" part? (vomit, meta but seriously teaparty).

The example you've given is garbage. Nothing about what Fate did there was "risky gambits that destroy town". In fact, I thought we were screwed when he claimed vig. I fought the power though. (If one wanted to be all kinds of awesome this sure makes that whole "HE TUNNELS YO" make even less sense but).

Those weren't rhetorical questions. They are statements that make no sense in context NOR as a function of town.

The next argument was this. I essentially answered what will be his question. However, he is giving me shit for answering what he wants to know. I think he's just looking for reasons to vote me. Agreeing with Fate alone would look pretty bad for him. And If I'm going to ask a question that another player answered before I ask the question... Would I give them shit for that? No. It doesn't make sense. Hence, Spyscum.

Leaving aside the fact that your mystical ordering of events here is tech AND I asked why vigged (just like I would have if I had arguments with the others) lets get to the better bit: When did

I

give you "shit" for it.

In fact, ALL I've ever said even remotely relating to that is that apart from Fate calling out the Vig/Investigate/NK business (because grouping all these together is f--) I didn't like his original case AND asking you why Vigged (because you sure didn't say he was scum, this was the "VI" vig angle which is F---).

So, yea, cool story.

AND ONCE AGAIN the difference between "I would *do series of events* to Fate" to "Hey, town read, who would you kill if you could" SHOULD be so readily apparent I'm not even sure what you're playing at.

And to end:

Ergh. I was arguing that it was a slip of his scummindset.

See, scum don't care who they lynch as long as it isn't them right?

Then Spy not knowing where his vote previously was(already on me), and then voting is pretty transparent in his lack of care. The unvote is quite telling, IMO. It says to me 'Oh, who was I voting? Nevermind, I found a new mislynch!'. That's the argument.

HAHAHAHAH

Woooooo

Wooooooooooooosh

[UncertainKitten]

So, basically, you are advocating the vigilante vig someone who you think has a decent probability of being town. Somehow this is the most effective use of town resources, rather than vigging scum.

Do you even think about what you say or just hope people will stop reading at some point?

[Fate]

Ergh. I was arguing that it was a slip of his scummindset. See, scum don't care who they lynch as long as it isn't them right? Then Spy not knowing where his vote previously was(already on me), and then voting is pretty transparent in his lack of care. The unvote is quite telling, IMO. It says to me 'Oh, who was I voting? Nevermind, I found a new mislynch!'. That's the argument.


HAHAHAHAH

Woooooo

Wooooooooooooosh

K I'll answer for you SpyreX.

HIS UNVOTE REVOTE WAS CLEARLY A STATEMENT OF: "MY PREVIOUS VOTE ON VV WAS RVS, THIS ONE IS FOR FUCKING REAL."

ANYONE WITH A GODDAMN BRAIN WOULD SEE THAT, LESS THEY WERE SCUM STRAWS GRASPING.

[Fate]

Not right now.

And Fate IS right about that not matching up with Rhinox's 75.

Alright. What's your take on me then? Do you disagree with Fate? What do you make of all the wagon hops on me? What do you think of my cases on SpyreX and AlmGM?

Gamma: This point in his case is incredibly damning.
VV: Alright. What do you think about the rest of the campaign issues and what are your stances there?

KEKEKEKEK

[SpyreX]

I already covered that Fate NOW ITS OBVIOUS WE ARE SCUM TOGETHER DAMNIT. FOILED BY THE UNVOTE VOTE SCUMSLIP.

Irritation aside what gets me is hate-bounce all you want NO ONE in this game is a VI. I've got mad <3's for all of you and thats what makes this really stand out. I mean "scum don't care who gets lynched as long as it isn't them".

Really?

[Fate]

First off, I didn't say Fate is scum. I'm saying he should be vigged, for the good of Town.

Oh now its 100% vig and not "he'll be dealt with by scum cop or the fairy godmother"? I WONDER WHY YOU THINK THAT? IS IT BECAUSE...
DUN
DUNDUN

YOU HAVE A SCUM READ ON ME AND WANT ME TO BE VIGGED?

Secondly, in the event that Fate is scum, it has to look believable. Otherwise other people can easily call him out on it.

!!! Do we have a case forming here? Is he about to say that I would stop raging in order to look believable when UK's point is that I AM believable when screaming like a mad man like ALWAYS?

I am keeping my options open

to Fate scum, as this argument is has basically topped his previous number #1 lameass case EVAR. (Although I do not ever want to be in the situation wherein I actually need to get a read on him). Previous #1 was the LOTR Mafia Case. That was horrible, but this is distinctly moreso horrible. In LOTR Maf, Fate had some stupid theory about a dumb scum gambit regarding. It was stupid, but at least it was at least possible since it was night-action theorizing heavy and all. Here, he's quoting every single one of my ISO then smearing and interpreting it into the SCUMTELL OF THE NEW MILLENIUM. Which is stupid in it's own right, and not scummy. (The Rhinox stuff is legit though, but it sorta kinda improves it from LVL99STUPIDCASE to LVL20STUPIDCASE.)

The bolded is tantamount to a scumclaim. The rest of his post is him showing examples of

FATE HAVING HORRIBAD CASES WHEN FATE IS TOWN

. So him calling me scum because of a lame case then citing town examples? HOOO BOYYYYYY. Because if he wanted to cite REAL scumFate examples he could head on over to Mini 994 where all my cases where dead on my scumbuddies or perfectly lined up mislynches. BUT NO.

Then of ccourse he finishes it off with "well damn, his point is valid and that makes it not so stupid. I have no rebuttal or explanation AGAINST this point, I'll just keep dodging it awkwardly."

Ergh. I was arguing that it was a slip of his scummindset. See, scum don't care who they lynch as long as it isn't them right? Then Spy not knowing where his vote previously was(already on me), and then voting is pretty transparent in his lack of care. The unvote is quite telling, IMO. It says to me 'Oh, who was I voting? Nevermind, I found a new mislynch!'. That's the argument.

Answered before.

The next argument was this. I essentially answered what will be his question. However, he is giving me shit for answering

what he wants to know

. I think he's just looking for reasons to vote me. Agreeing with Fate alone would look pretty bad for him. And If I'm going to ask a question that another player answered before I ask the question... Would I give them shit for that? No. It doesn't make sense. Hence, Spyscum.

Ok those points I wanted brought down to here, later?

How can you possibly be town and actually have me as your #1 vig pick. When players like Vezok and AGM are in this game. This is bullshit scum acting.

UK skimming! read the next post I have a surprise for you!

[Fate]

Ok for UK, updated points on VV:

1. Rhinox disappeared from his scum reads and SpyreX was replaced
2. The case on SpyreX is a horrible twisting. He's trying to implicate SpyreX as "not knowing where his vote was" when that clearly wasn't true if you read the context of the post. He is also trying to frame SpyreX as "voting me for answering a question before he asked" which brings me to:
3. VV in his post where he said what was going to happen to me, was (re-read it careful now) IN NO WAY saying "If I were a vig I'd shoot Fate." He was saying "I won't read Fate because these three things will likely happen to him" so he is trying to say he was claiming who he'd shoot in a post where he really wasn't.
4. If VVTOWN really thinks I'm a better vig shot after all his words about me being town over VV and AGM, then there's really no hope for him surviving LyLo successfully anyway. Good thing he's scum.
5. VV says "Im keeping the Fate could be scum option because his case on me IS SHIT" then goes on to reference games where I am town and have had bad cases. He never seems to be hem hawwing in his posts on my alignment, but more rather "pretending" he is unsure of my alignment while usually slipping and referencing me as having a town mindset multiple times if you read the tone of his posts.
6. Gamma calls out VV on his Rhinox vote not matching up and VV has no defense or explanation other than to ask Gamma 20questions about random things (which Gamma, out of the goodness of his heart, answered).
7. After being called out for Rhinox dropping from his reads, he continues to go on a 1v1 with SpyreX that he is clearly losing and STILL makes no further mention of Rhinox at this point in time.

<3 Fate

[Fate]

EDWOP: 4 should say "over Vezok and AGM" or something to that effect. Maybe even throw Ellie in there too (>_>)

[UncertainKitten]

Thanks Fate. I'm not sure I entirely agree on the Rhinox points but it's both convenient that Rhinox has disappeared and that VV is only spending a line or two on him every few posts...while still voting him, and fighting with SpyreX who you'd think he had a more solid "scum read" on.

[Fate]

Even VV agrees on the Rhinox points.

I mean when you've even done the impossible and convinced SCUM they are scum then hot damn.

[Fate]

Irritation aside what gets me is hate-bounce all you want NO ONE in this game is a VI.

Please don't shot me. I have a sweet role and I don't want to get shot. And I don't want Fate to get shot either.

>_>?