Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time Mafia..OVER! Was Hyrule saved?

[DTMaster]

Tomorrow if 3 townies all die, then we only need 3 scum to quick hammer, then 2 as the lynch threshold reaches 0. I just realized we have a serious dilemma actually since Nameloc has 5 self votes now.

[DTMaster]

Fuuuuuccckkkkkkkkkk... ><;; I don't think it's viable to keep Nameloc around. FUUUUCK this puts a wrench into things.

[DTMaster]

Chrono scum doesn't make sense as he's the spokesperson for the neighbours and preemptively claimed some contradictory information and supported Substrike's neighbour claim. As I said earlier, the reasons to do all of this doesn't have any scum motivation. It puts forward a ton of risk on Chrono for relatively small gain, even if he becomes associated with Sub. Chronopie also expressed that the other sages are disinterested with the neighborhood to participate in the QT.

LL to my points, what do you think about that?

[mothrax]

Bunny, there is a big difference between lurking and active lurking. Lurking for example is what I did through the first two days and is a null tell.

Active lurking is posting contentless fluff

in excess

which is a scumtell. Also thanks for playing the newbcard. Newb scum don't buss and your avoidance of the sub wagon reeks of newbscum.

Vote:bunnylover

Also found it ~<3 Read the parts in red above. Someone just admitted to lurking for the first two days. Totally lots of scum points here.

And someone missed my point entirely. Lurking is a null tell. Sorry if my mother was rediagnosed with breast-cancer and I being her only family had to take care of her after her surgery. And again, did you miss the part where I requested replacement?

[Bunnylover]

Tomorrow if 3 townies all die, then we only need 3 scum to quick hammer, then 2 as the lynch threshold reaches 0. I just realized we have a serious dilemma actually since Nameloc has 5 self votes now.

In most game that I have played in with two or more scum fractions (right now we know Poe and Boss scum teams), the scum team only wins when they are the only team left. That means even if 3 townies die tomorrow, the game ending isn't clear and everyone still has a chance to win since both scum fractions would be trying to eliminate each other then the town.

I am thinking about your Beefster case.

Also I find this very strange. JmJ did take responsibility for the frog (ISO him and its post number 43).
Their is a frog today. That means either someone has the ability to use the power of the dead or a group is in control of the frog. Leaning on the first idea that someone has the power to use the dead power.

[Beefster]

Afiak: If I'm not clear here's it simplified:

If Beefster thought the wagon was policy based

he wouldn't call Gandalf scummy

. He would say that this wagon was a policy based wagon and he had other scum reads that were stronger.

There was no time for anything better. It was 2 days before deadline at that point.

[Beefster]

Fuuuuuccckkkkkkkkkk... ><;; I don't think it's viable to keep Nameloc around. FUUUUCK this puts a wrench into things.

What is this all about? Are you up to something?

IGMEOU

[Beefster]

NM that. I read your post above that. We'll just get someone to vig him.

[Beefster]

Beefster said that Gandalf's lynch was a result of policy lynching. But Beefster clearly stated originally that he thought Gandalf was scummy. Beefster is showing a disconnect by saying it was a policy lynch over a scum lynch. Thus the jist of the case is:

Because Beefster says that Gandalf's lynch was based on policy, this is not a town mind set since he is distancing himself from the wagon. The majority of the people thought Gandalf was scummy. As a towns person, even though the lynched a useful PR, the player himself was scummy and it was a town derived kill on a scum-suspect (which narrows down who they think is scum).

When Beefster mentions that it's policy and Aikage should claim because Gandalf didn't claim on time, this isn't a town mindset to scum hunt. It reads as role fishing because when a person doesn't claim, it's another nail against their target (for their case). Also when Beefster said that claiming would have avoided a Gandalf lynch, that's completely a lie because Beefster said that the claim was scummy in it self based on it's role.

So Beefster showed 2 cases of lying (on why gandalf was lynched, and that the lynch could be avoided), 1 case of poor argument (which reads as role fishing), and shows signs that his actions are more scum derived and townie derived when you question his posts with: What's the purpose of the question he's asking/What's the purpose of the statement he posted.

To explain my position, Aikage claimed "Medigoron" earlier. He says that knowing his role would help the town in understanding his play, but he refuses to claim fully. I'm seeing some scummy inconsistency here.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Immediate responses:

@ABR
1. Lovers scum is still possible. The fact that there is an entire setup called Lovers Mafia should be a hint, and it's a mini normal game. You haven't had any proof to show that these two are SKs.

Only scum could determine that because they would know more about the factions

then the town.

This is my evidence:

There's Twinrova, and we assume she's Boss scum. Then there's also Ice and Fire witch, who are lovers and scum. And we have completely separate poe scum. So unless Boss Scum are made up of Twinrova and the lovers, which would be 3 scum, plus any number of bosses that the sages need to kill, that would make for a hell of a lot of scum.

2. I still don't understand why there couldn't be "boss scum" within the neighborhood. This assumption assumes an uneven distribution of scum to neighbors (which is possible) which lacks any mirroring. Based on Chrono's statement Substrike provided an identical claim to the rest of the sages showing that scum would be given fake claims. Heck, as a mod I'd put the person's real role as their target, and make their fake claim be the lyncher to their target for lols and giggles for situational irony.

It's sloppy to auto clear the unconfirmed block. Scum hunting within the neighborhood should still be done while we focus on our main cases.

First off, we know that scum have fake claims already since we are allowed to quote our role PMs.

Second, because every sage has a Boss scum they need to kill to be booted off the temple and acquire their true powers. The sage Boss scum would then have to kill one of their own members to unlock that power? I don't think so and that's why I want to clear the sages right now, and concentrate on finding scum in the remaining players, IE: not chronopie & and weighing in the sage claims very heavily before lynching.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I get what you mean with the irony thing, but I just don't see it. Even if I was wrong and there was more scum in the neigborhood, it's still 3 or 4 to 1 with substrike gone. And that's only if I'm wrong. I think we should lynch players NOT part of the neigborhood today.

[vezokpiraka]

We can assume we have 4 boss scums remaining and as many poe sisters that exist there?

That makes a hell of a lot of scums. 17 people with about 7-9 scums. That's bad.

[Knight of Cydonia]

That sounds like far too many scum. I get the feeling a lot of smoke and mirrors is being employed by certain people here.

[DTMaster]

@BL
1. I'd rather, rather not leave this up to prisoners dilemma. At that point in time if we do get there, the fate of the town doesn't lie with the town anymore, it's with the scum.

2. It's possible that the frog is automatic. Since Blood was a compulsive vig (meaning that he has to kill people) this is possible. But I rather wait till the claim stage. If anything my point about it being a scum deterrent (ie. stops scum from actioning) is still useful in reducing night actions from that side. Plus since you're given the option of killing the frog, we'd know who did it since the frog is public. Thinking about it, the frog is still useful in action analysis.

3. I had beef (lol pun) with Beefster earlier because of his argument against Gandalf just based on his role claim. This parallels his thought process with Aikage. Using role as an argument strikes as off to me.

@Beefster

Except we lynched the vig yesterday

. Um.... how does that work again? Also you think the other possible vig is scum (see Aikage).

BE's cukoo's explain both the attack on Cupcake and JmJ's death (read the flavour again) who was our day vig (since the cukoos attacked and resolved during the day). Aikage is the closest thing to our claimed night vig.

You missed my arguments on you in regards to what you stated about Gandalf. You just brushed it under the rug?

Did you or not think Gandalf was scummy?

. Calling it the only choice is bull shit if you were actually scum hunting. You fight tooth and nail for your scum reads, you state who you prefer over the leading wagon. Where did you do this again? Who were your preferred scum reads over Gandalf and why? Show me where you did this.

Also

defined to me what makes Aikage scummy?

Tell me why Aikage's refusal to full claim is scummy, since you called it scummy? There is no reason for Aikage to claim since he chose to claim his targets/results. He pre-emptively chose to do this, drawing in attention onto himself. Just like my point about Nameloc/Chrono, this has no scum motivation to put your neck out for something flimsy. Aikage was flying under the radar earlier, and was under no pressure to claim information.

Is that the main reason for your case?

@Mothrax
Ohhhhh gawd I felt a vein pop because I'm reliving my Haylen and SGM fights ><;;; . I'm sorry about your mother but it's more reason to cross check you to your other games. I'm going to be blunt, but getting burned by Haylen one to many times made me jaded to these kinds V/LAs.

I don't mind that lurking is a null tell argument, because it's true when you can support it with complete inactivity on the site. I'll be sifting through that.

@ABR
1. Since when does the Fire/Ice witch has to be lovers ><;;. I mean why are you extrapolating that all the orange scum are lovers, it could just be the two that were flipped were lovers.

1 of the sages = substrike was fake

This proves that the statement:

because there are sages there targets must be alive doesn't have to be true.

If substrike was poe scum, it's just as likely that his target doesn't exist in the game. This eliminates your dilemma of too many scum because you don't need to have targets being there. Just like with Chrono, we haven't disproved the possiblity that

his target doesn't even exist in the game which is just as likely to happen as a separate Twinrova role

This also applies to "boss faction sage infiltrate" >>;;. If you really wanted to be crazy Usurper roles also exist. I have an answer to the boss-sage with a boss target that's both alive scenario too.

This is going to be very circular. This isn't helping anyways so I recommend we stop these "What ifs" arguments "and setup speculation" and get on with just regular old scum hunting.

It's sloppy to auto clear all the neighbours. We can pressure them and this doesn't mean we can't scum hunt. In a numbers game you are right, if we just do an isolated group of neighbours/non-neighbour and possible scum ratio to that. But in the end we still need to deal with it, and the more we stay on top of that, the more time we have to narrow down possible neighbour scum. Like with my personal list of Beef,Moth,Kdub, Dekes (?) I'll do my thing.

But the lack of your scum hunting is a nail against you good sir. Why aren't you doing anything today? Are you just waiting for a neighbourhood claim so you can start hunting non neighbours? >>;;

@KoC/Vezok
The town flips have been super powerful so far (PGO/Vig/Magnet BP). We had lover's scum. If we assume WCS numbers, there'd be counters to that. For now assume close to lylo conditions before you go off the rocker.

@KoC
Any particular persons you dislike? You know with specifics, this leads into rereads and scum hunting.

[mothrax]

@DTM I requested replacement in all of my games. Revisionist couldn't find a replacement so I came back, my other games are ongoing, but you are welcome to find them. A mini theme, large normal, Newbie and open.

[mothrax]

Ebwop: revisionist=Reckamonic

[mothrax]

Hell, just look at the replacement qeue.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: DGB

[AKnottedRope]

Um, that lacked a few things. Namely an explanation.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If memory serves my list of scum included

chesskid
substrike
Dekes
KOC

So I'm just gonna go with that and see how it goes.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Who did DGB replace off that list?

[Ythan]

Sorry about that, Thanksgiving. Catching up.

[Ythan]

Ythan you are the antitown one, it is bad to be so rude to people. but im thinking your town still even tho your bein an ashole

It's too bad you'll never make a case because you're practically an empty slot. Whatever your alignment it's probably in your team's best interest that you just stop posting.

[Ythan]

They are lovers. And they don't make sense as boss scum. Twinrova is boss scum.

Why do they "not make sense"?

[DTMaster]

@Work
1. DGB replaced Dekes.
2. Discouragine players from posting is increasing the noise ratio Ythan. Putting people as the same level as Zwet doesn't help scum hunting.
3. Of course Moth. Be aware I have bias based on playing with Haylen and SFG so.... if I'm unecessarily insensitive it has nothing to do with the cancer situation.