Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[Furcolow]

i am proxying my vote to benmage for now

vote: mina

[Thor665]

Vote: Mina

This does have to happen.

[Sotty7]

I wanna vote for Mina, but I also wanna do work rather than just laze out with my vote. So yeah, later when I have read.

[Thor665]

2 lynches.

Lynch obvious, no way it isn't happening choice.
If wrong, have all day of discussion for secondary choice.

[Sotty7]

True, but I am old school. Plus I want to break out of my cruise control mode that was activated since the BS lynch. I also think the town has been cruising a little lately too. That tends to happen with early scum flips. I think we all need to pull our socks up a little and actually play the game.

That pretty much starts with people posting their reasons for voting who they are. A few sentences is better than nothing.

[Thor665]

I am not old school because I am eternally young, but sure - I'll play,

My vote for Mina would pretty much be either sheeping Locke's case, or for the reasons I noted in 1128 - and is probably a vague and uncertain combination of both. If she's scum, huzzah for our side, if she's town she has to go because we'll be having this debate before every single lynch otherwise.

[jasonT1981]

Voting Fur because his end of day 2 phase 2 actions were anything but town and I felt scum was melting down. His hammer, with questions left on the table seemed like a deliberate attempt to cut of communication. Something scum would do. The hammer also seem,ed opertunistic, seemingly like he was sitting with a grin on his face knowing the flip would be town./

Yea, I admit I slacked a lot lately. I think I probably got complacient with the early hits on scum thinknig town could probably now cruise to victory. I also had a major dose of food poisioning that kept me out of the game for quite a bit which I think hurt my ability and desire to play.

I will try and be around moree, and contribute more day 3.

Don't like Furs 'Proxy' vote... doesnt seem like a time to be giving votes away or proxying them with little actual reasoning from Fur.

Still think Percy could be scum... but Fur has overtaken him on my radar recently.

[Mina]

This really sucks.

Do people actually want a defence from me against Locke's case? Normally, I'd be going down kicking and screaming, because I'd refuse to let myself be mislynched, and "Let's lynch her because everyone else suspects her and she's a

distraction

" is the worst, laziest excuse to coast ever...but in this case, we have more lynches than suspects. This is weird, but I'd actually feel kind of selfish for defending myself. I can try to explain my motivations more for suspecting Furcolow over Baby Spice, but I don't think I've done anything that should 100% rule me out of the suspect pool. The only argument I'd have for keeping me alive would be that I'm putting more effort into scumhunting than other members of the suspect pool, but my reads have been terrible, anyway.

That, and vote for me after evaluating every player and deciding that you think I'm most likely to be scum and you don't think the evidence suggesting that I'm town is convincing, not because you want the easy answer out of the way. Because I'm in a unique position to know that this game will last a long time.

Could people at least wait for me to write posts on other players before lynching me? There's a lot I'd really like to say about Percy in particular.

Voting Fur because his end of day 2 phase 2 actions were anything but town and I felt scum was melting down. His hammer, with questions left on the table seemed like a deliberate attempt to cut of communication. Something scum would do. The hammer also seem,ed opertunistic, seemingly like he was sitting with a grin on his face knowing the flip would be town./

Um...jason? You realize that Benmage was the one that hammered, right? In fact, you even mentioned him by name here:

Hmmm, why did Ben hammer before Sotty had a chance to answer Minas question?

Speaking of which, can you answer this:

I'd also have liked to hear an answer, but Ben definitely isn't scum, jason. By your question, were you implying that you find it suspicious, or just a bad move?

and this:

Okay, I had a huge post typed up explaining what my motivation was for suggesting the speedlynch plan, but since you're online, might as well ask this first: jason, if the game doesn't end with Empking's lynch, would you agree with a speedlynch-Mina-Elmo-Percy-Kaleidoscope plan? What about lynching Mina, Elmo, Percy, and Kaleidoscope after lots and lots of discussion? Any objections?

[jasonT1981]

Blagh.. getting fur and Ben mixed up

unvote

need to go re-read.. im getting confused easily at the minute

[Zachrulez]

Nul replaces in for Elmo. Thanks Nul!

[Benmage]

I'm sick

[Thor665]

French disease?

[Nul]

Hello everyone.
I've compiled a list of trends that scums tend to do while browsing through this game and others which are completed.
I know that not all scums will follow these trends but I think it is important that I lay them out for discussion purposes. Let's just call these trends; factors that contribute to scumminess. The more a player follows these trends, the more higher they go up my list of suspicion.

1. Scums usually try to get away with posting as little as they can.

Yes, I've seen this in so many games that even I was finding it a little odd. A few minority type up walls and walls of text every page but as I said that's only a minority. If you look at the first 10 pages, you can see that the confirmed scums, Dry-fit and Mongoose, are doing exactly that averaging one post every 2 pages.

2. Scums will have no interactions with each other at early stages of the game unless forced to.

Another arguable point, but look again. Dry-fit and Mongoose have had no interactions at all until Dry-fit was a primary suspect during page 10 and all he had to say was:

I dont see anything wrong with dryfit to be honest. I think everything he has said can be justified. On the other hand, redcoyote's posts aren't really that great. There is alot of irrelevant and silly stuff, along with some questionable points (like his votes on sotty and nikanor, I didn't quite catch the reason for those). However there has been alot of stuff I think is townie behavior as well. While I think that the judgment of older, better players than me shouldn't be disregarded, i still think that the case on furcolow is stronger, so I keep my vote there

If you look carefully at this paragraph, he only directly talk about Dry-fit in the first two sentence and attempts to divert further attention by bringing up another topic straight after.

3. Scums avoid voting the same person

This is basically inscribed in the book of "what scums should do" and a lot of scums think this is smart and somehow prevents suspicion. In my last game, the scums never had their votes at the same person unless special circumstances arise.


Now let's look at these postulates, and assuming they are true, who do we have here?...

Sotty7

I was actually quite surprised at how much he fit the points, and reading his posts over and over again have confirmed my suspicions.

However, that does look like a slip by jason.

Unvote. Vote: jasonT1981

Bad backdoor wagon vote right here.

Elaborate in your next post how Jason slipped and how that is scummy.

= = = = =

Usually the mafia distance themselves, so I thought one, maybe two would be on my early wagon to "see where it went". The first underlined caught my eye though. How could townie sotty be so sure that of the 5 or so players that were coming after me, that none of them were scum. It made more sense that scum was on the wagon, maybe multiple scum.

“I really doubt” isn't me being

sure

. At this point of the game I don't find the players you rattled off to be scummy. I also think you are reaching in this whole post with my whole “lets try something different” but whatever.

Let me start off by telling you that this wasn't the start of his post. I actually cut off a wall of text in front of what disguised the jewel. Here's a small question that he asks Dry-fit for what I can only assume was intended to put away suspicion, had Dry-fit been lynched in the near-future.

Now notice here what IAI was saying...

Usually the mafia distance themselves, so I thought one, maybe two would be on my early wagon to "see where it went". The first underlined caught my eye though. How could townie sotty be so sure that of the 5 or so players that were coming after me, that none of them were scum. It made more sense that scum was on the wagon, maybe multiple scum.

My theory is that Sotty7 reading IAI's post, was reminded that scums distancing themselves was a easy scumtell and thus tries to interact a little with his scum partner Dry-fit with a meanlingless question that he did not even follow up with anything.

Look back at point two and reread this post. Sotty7, like MonGoose, goes straight off the topic as soon as he even draws the slightest bit of attention between the scums. Not convinced? There's more, ladies and gentlemen.

Sotty and IAI are particularly interesting, because they both practiced a in a bit of a slap fight throughout the game.

Slap fight? This sounds like you are playing down the opening exchange I had with IAI in an effort to make it look scummy. Just come out and break down what you find scummy about it, these kind of subtle jabs don't look good.

Sotty comes up not too long after, and interestingly she mentions that Dry-fit is her second biggest suspect and that Locke and Kscope are her best town reads. This is almost too coincidental. She was alone on the Nikanor wagon. She was backing up the Dry-fit wagon, and she thought the two most recent proponents of the wagon were her biggest town reads. I think I took issue with this at the time, but I never followed up on it. Locke and Kscope had given very few posts and opinions up to this point. Kscope in particular had been tight-lipped. For Sotty to claim them both as her biggest town reads is suspect just due to the fact that they weren't very active (nevermind that they both happened to be right in their Dry-fit suspicions).

I explained both my town reads on KScope and Locke, do you have an actual issue with what I stated? Kinda sounds like you do but you never challenged me apart from pointing out Locke not getting your wagon. I don't see anything you list here as scummy and unless you break it down it is looking a lot like mud slinging.

You need to go into detail

why

this is scummy. It's all very vague and by default, weak and scummy.

I'll say now Jason and Locke are now my two biggest town reads. Wanna fight them too?

= = = = = =

Think I said hinky not scummy btw.

Wishy washy language is wishy washy.

(That means I find it scummy btw)

Your vote is on benmage who was a big force behind the Dry-Fit lynch, what is your case on him? Why was Jason's reason to hammer so poor? Why no comment on Nik's vote on you?


= = = = =

This is a great post. The only way it would be any better was if IAI's vote was on Nikanor instead of Percy but I will deal.

I agree that IKD's reaction to Nikanor's claim is suspect. That pushes Lrdwhyt higher up my scum list, but I would really like to see more from him. Red, Nikanor, Baby Spice are my other scum reads at this point. Percy's plea post happening soon after Red's trips an alarm in my mind, but I still have a more of gut town read on him. I understand his suspicions on me for example, while Red's are awful. I do need to look closer at the whole scum list issue that has been put out there. But my initial reaction was 100 posts happened between those two Percy posts, not sure if it is as damning as people want to say.

I'm happy enough to keep my vote on Red, but I need to review some more.

EDIT BY WAY OF PREVIEW: I see Fitz has made a post, I'll give it a read in a mo.

You can basically ignore the first paragraphs and the last paragraphs because as I explained earlier, scums hide their interactions with other scums between their posts, and usually end on a different topic so people don't make a big deal out of it.

You guys need to reread the thread right now starting from page 1 up to 10 and see the relationship between Sotty7, MonGoose and Dry-fit. I don't have much time right now because it's dinner and it already took me 5- minutes typing this up but try to see how they avoid each other. The early stage of the game is what I believe to be the most important because scums would tend to avoid each other and throw votes around at people trying to cause panic.

MonGoose and Dry-fit never even remotely talks about Sotty7 during the early stage but they talk about everyone else and throw votes around trying to cause panic. Look at their votes, almost everyone gets a vote.

I am very convinced that Sotty7 is scum.

And if you guys can't be bothered to look at each of MonGoose and Dry-fit's post I'll post more tomorrow.

[Nul]

50 minutes*

[Nul]

omg lol almost forgot about the most important part

vote: sotty7

[Nul]

Ok I have more time so I'll try to find quotes when I was reading Dry-fit and MonGooses' post that led me to Sotty7. So I basically kept ruling out people they interact with. Watch the list:

JasonT1981
Sotty7
I Am Innocent
Nul Elmo
Percy
Thor665 Nikanor
Mina
Furcolow
Benmage
KaleiÐoscøpe

I'm thinking we no lynch off the bat..and than progress the day as if it were normal.

Wouldn't it make more sense to lynch the first day and then see what we decide from there?

this is dry-fit's first post and there is no way that a scum would interact with another scum on their first post. So I assumed benmage was town, now the list is:

JasonT1981
Sotty7
I Am Innocent
Nul Elmo
Percy
Thor665 Nikanor
Mina
Furcolow
KaleiÐoscøpe

Make sense?

No.

Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

JasonT1981
Sotty7
I Am Innocent
Nul Elmo
Percy
Thor665 Nikanor
Mina
Furcolow

this is post #123

JasonT1981
Sotty7
I Am Innocent
Nul Elmo
Percy
Thor665 Nikanor
Furcolow

post#159

Unvote. Vote: jasonT1981

Sotty7
I Am Innocent
Nul Elmo
Percy
Thor665 Nikanor
Furcolow

post#177

unvote, vote furcolow

Sotty7
I Am Innocent
Nul Elmo
Percy
Thor665 Nikanor

and now if u read sotty7's earlier posts, he suspects the others that his 2 partners didn't suspect
post#68
Sotty7
Nul Elmo
Percy
Thor665 Nikanor

post#179-180
Sotty7
Nul Elmo

the only one that is not mentioned often is elmo but that's because he was busy with real life, so there isn't really much to attack

[Nul]

Point three should be revised to:

3. Scums generally avoid suspecting the same people

which as I demonstrated in my above post, sotty7 and his 2 partners suspected different people.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Hey Nul,

Vote Percy please

XoXo Scope

[Nul]

So you're saying Percy killed Locke after Locke clearly stated that he felt "ok" about Percy?

Conclusion: aside from the buddying, I still feel ok about Percy. I perceive town-concern in his reaction to the plan, with my only concern being that it felt like he was trying a little bit too hard to make Mina look bad.

Besides, what is the case against Percy anyway? Or do I have to spend another few hours scouring through the thread.

[Sotty7]

I feel like throwing a furc fit, but I won't. I spent yesterday in my newbie game, I plan to do the same here today once I wake up probably.

[Nul]

OK
I've just read up to page 35 and I agree that Percy could be scum too.
So maybe I've made a mistake at the point after mongooses' and dry-fit's posts.

but the scum has to be one of these 3
Sotty7
Percy
Thor665 Nikanor

[Sotty7]

If you vote for Thor we can pretend this never happened and be BBF's

Eh...? Eh...?

[Zachrulez]

1st Vote count of Day 3 Phase 1:

Mina - 3 (Benmage, Furcolow, Thor665)
Percy - 2 (KaleiÐoscøpe, I Am Innocent)
Furcolow - 1 (JasonT1981)
Sotty7 - 1 (Nul)

Not Voting: (Sotty7, Percy, Mina)

With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline for both phases of day 3 is Monday December 27th at 11am CST.

[Sotty7]

1. Scums usually try to get away with posting as little as they can.

Yes, I've seen this in so many games that even I was finding it a little odd. A few minority type up walls and walls of text every page but as I said that's only a minority. If you look at the first 10 pages, you can see that the confirmed scums, Dry-fit and Mongoose, are doing exactly that averaging one post every 2 pages.

And yet I am on every page bar five and six, with multiple posts for the most part.

2. Scums will have no interactions with each other at early stages of the game unless forced to.

Another arguable point, but look again. Dry-fit and Mongoose have had no interactions at all until Dry-fit was a primary suspect during page 10 and all he had to say was:

I dont see anything wrong with dryfit to be honest. I think everything he has said can be justified. On the other hand, redcoyote's posts aren't really that great. There is alot of irrelevant and silly stuff, along with some questionable points (like his votes on sotty and nikanor, I didn't quite catch the reason for those). However there has been alot of stuff I think is townie behavior as well. While I think that the judgment of older, better players than me shouldn't be disregarded, i still think that the case on furcolow is stronger, so I keep my vote there

If you look carefully at this paragraph, he only directly talk about Dry-fit in the first two sentence and attempts to divert further attention by bringing up another topic straight after.

mongoose also didn't mention:

Elmo
Percy
Kscope (unless you count mentioning his avatar)

I do get a small shout out from mongoose here:

First off, I realized there's a bit of contradiction with benmage's first quoted comment and my final response to that quote. Yeah, it does direct us away from scum hunting, and while it doesn't help too much I dont think it was too bad. Compared to some other filler posts at the start of the game, it definitely was more helpful.

I dont see anything wrong with dryfit to be honest. I think everything he has said can be justified. On the other hand, redcoyote's posts aren't really that great. There is alot of irrelevant and silly stuff, along with some questionable points (like his votes on sotty and nikanor, I didn't quite catch the reason for those). However there has been alot of stuff I think is townie behavior as well. While I think that the judgment of older, better players than me shouldn't be disregarded, i still think that the case on furcolow is stronger, so I keep my vote there

Small yeah, but it's more than Elmo and Percy.

I pop up in Dry-Fit's ISO a handful of times. He is mainly answering me. But I'm there. Dry-Fit actually mentions in passing or had an exchange with everyone that is alive. Guess he doesn't fit into this trend.

3. Scums avoid voting the same person

This is basically inscribed in the book of "what scums should do" and a lot of scums think this is smart and somehow prevents suspicion. In my last game, the scums never had their votes at the same person unless special circumstances arise.

This trend is just bogus. Scums will totally bandwagon with each other.

Let me start off by telling you that this wasn't the start of his post. I actually cut off a wall of text in front of what disguised the jewel. Here's a small question that he asks Dry-fit for what I can only assume was intended to put away suspicion, had Dry-fit been lynched in the near-future.

OR,

I legitmently found Dry Fit's position on Jason (a player I have been defending like crazy) really freaking scummy. I'll admit to not paying Dry-Fit too much attention until he did that. I called him on it. Simple.

My theory is that Sotty7 reading IAI's post, was reminded that scums distancing themselves was a easy scumtell and thus tries to interact a little with his scum partner Dry-fit with a meanlingless question that he did not even follow up with anything.

Interesting, but you're wrong. Also I did follow up on Dry Fit:

He does get a little better as the game progresses but I quite like my vote right now. Dry-fit would be a good second choice.

And here

Why don't you buy the perfectly plausible explanation?

and post so I see he is lying. meaning he just admitted to lying.

This is not an intuitive thought process at all.

You realize that this still doesn't answer the question right?

Why

isn't it an intuitive thought process?

You can basically ignore the first paragraphs and the last paragraphs because as I explained earlier, scums hide their interactions with other scums between their posts, and usually end on a different topic so people don't make a big deal out of it.

So we are just going to ignore all the posts I had with Babyspice as my main subject?

You guys need to reread the thread right now starting from page 1 up to 10 and see the relationship between Sotty7, MonGoose and Dry-fit. I don't have much time right now because it's dinner and it already took me 5- minutes typing this up but try to see how they avoid each other. The early stage of the game is what I believe to be the most important because scums would tend to avoid each other and throw votes around at people trying to cause panic.

MonGoose and Dry-fit never even remotely talks about Sotty7 during the early stage but they talk about everyone else and throw votes around trying to cause panic. Look at their votes, almost everyone gets a vote.

I am very convinced that Sotty7 is scum.

And if you guys can't be bothered to look at each of MonGoose and Dry-fit's post I'll post more tomorrow.

As mentioned, your player slot as well as Percy and Kscope ALSO fit this profiling you are pushing on me. You have shown nothing that has set me apart from them or you. On top of that you have purposely left out parts of my interactions with confirmed scum to make this all sound and look better than what it is. Why is that?

[Sotty7]

Point three should be revised to:

3. Scums generally avoid suspecting the same people

which as I demonstrated in my above post, sotty7 and his 2 partners suspected different people.

?

This is some kind of strange conformation bias your showing here.

Confirmed scums early voting record.

Mongoose

-benmage
-furc

Dry-Fit

-KScope
-Oso
-jason

Players who are alive that didn't vote any of the above players in the early goings

benmage

-Percy
-IAI
-Dry fit

KScope

-Red
-Dry Fit
-Percy

Mina

-mongoose
-Red
-Babyspice
-Lrd
-Elmo

Sotty

-Red
-IAI
-Nikanor
-Dry fit

Spoiler: The rest of the players

Everyone else

Elmo

-IAI
-Oso
-IKD
-Red
-Dry Fit

furc

-IAI
-Dry fit
-Benmage
-jason
-Red

IAI

-jason
-Oso
-IAI
-furc
-Dry fit

Jason

-Sotty
-IAI
-Elmo
-Nikanor
-benmage
-furc
-Dry Fit
-Babyspice
-Percy

Percy

-Sotty
-Red
-benmage
-furc
-Babyspice

Nikanor AKA Thor

-jason
-Babyspice

I ISOed everyone, and just did a find on the word VOTE and jotted down everyones votes on the first few pages of their ISO. I tried to get all the day one votes but I might have extended myself with a couple of people.

So another premise of yours busted. Why isn't KScope getting more heat? He seems to check all the boxes I do, why are you glossing over him? Why are you ignoring Babyspice?

[So you're saying Percy killed Locke after Locke clearly stated that he felt "ok" about Percy?

So your saying I killed Locke after he seemed to imply he thought I was town?

And post 1140 is just ridiculous.