Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Percy]

Nachomamma8 replaces nopointinactingup. Thanks!

[Plum]

Teh Plume case:

1.) ReaperCharles in the "Town alliance of AWESOEM" very early in the game but then quickly disappeared here with very little mention.
2.) SpyreX in the keep an eye on list, but little mention of SpyreX before hand.
3.) Despite having SpyreX in the 'keep an eye on' list, she was still planning out murders with SpyreX here which is...odd.
4.) Random Spy vs. Plum moments that seemed to appear out of nowhere and wasn't even valid to any discussion at that time. These, by all means, do

not

look like genuine Townie interactions at all. Hell, they don't even look like scum-Town interactions.
5.) Appearing only when mentioned, opportunistically voting for MoI and El Goo[/quote]

1. I like Town alliances. That one didn't pan out, in part because RC started to garner a lot of suspicion and votes. In response to RC disappearing from my Townlist with 'very little mention' I direct you to this catchup post in which I discuss my new reservations in regards to RC. The TL'DR post was just that, a summary of the reads I came to as a result of my catchup reading. Take for example this paragraph:

You good, incisive, introspective Townie. We could use ten more like you. About VV's RC case I'm of two minds - on the one hand I agree with AV above, on the other I don't think that 'daring' to attack Hito is necessarily a good scum move, even (given that sticking with obvTown Hito is a good way to not rock the boat and to get associated with Hito in everyone's minds - there could be scum motivations thar too, of course, but not enough to go on as to which side of the spectrum it's coming from), on the other, yeah, it's weird and I'm not pleased he did that either. On the third hand, saying that VV was scummy for trying to cool down some of Furc's excessive spamming, no matter how obvTown Furc happen to be,

does

feel wrong.

Curious what Plum thinks about the case on RC.

RC is playing too anti-Town for me and has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth, mostly for avoiding the questions aimed at him. The other arguments do little if anything for me; they're mostly nulltells as I see it. If I had a supercool alliance he'd be booted from it until he answered the questions properly and shaped up a little in the play-pro-Town department, then be kept on strict surveillance and scrutinized closely before being considered for reentry, if at all. In other words, I am unimpressed and he worries me - much the same way SpyreX worries me. But he's not among my top picks for scum.

I think this qualifies as more than a 'little mention' of why I felt RC was worth keeping an eye on and did not deserve a place on my Townreads list.

2. I refer to these quotes from my ISO:

SPYREX we need more goodness from you, less I dunno what. Fine analysis, but the spark of life needs fanning maybe.

I usually can get Townreads on cool friends pretty quickly, so this is a bad sign (also a bad sign on SpyreX for the record).

Not sure about SpyreX being a bro which would be a first, just about. That said so much stuff in so little time in this threas means it's just as likely I'm missing some good stuff from him.

1. I need to reread SpyreX, but the immediate honing in on one single target in such a big Day 1 and the longish, long-thought seeming posts smacked more of scum that Town given SpyreX. That said it could be a function of something else, possibly the size/speed of the game. I'm not certain.

SpyreX, you worry me here.

RC is playing too anti-Town for me and has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth, mostly for avoiding the questions aimed at him. The other arguments do little if anything for me; they're mostly nulltells as I see it. If I had a supercool alliance he'd be booted from it until he answered the questions properly and shaped up a little in the play-pro-Town department, then be kept on strict surveillance and scrutinized closely before being considered for reentry, if at all. In other words, I am unimpressed and he worries me - much the same way SpyreX worries me. But he's not among my top picks for scum.

Oh look, I have similar reservations with both RC and SpyreX and they both end up on my 'Keep an Eye On' list. Well, I'm sure that means nothing about what I meant by 'Keep an Eye On'. It couldn't possibly be related, now could it?

I'll tell you that I talked about SpyreX a fair amount, and most of what I said, from fairly early points from my entry into the game, negative or at the very least wary (some of it wasn't). If you want links to me saying that when SpyreX isn't hitting all my obvtown SpyreX buttons that's a worry and a decent reason to be extra alert for scum-Spy I'm sure I could find them for you. I mentioned it in Pick Your Poison Five, if I recall.

3. Planning out Murders with a suspect (and remember I was looking out for Cult suspects way above Murderer suspects then) makes perfect sense - if I'm wrong about SpyreX, confirming him Stalking and Murdering once is an excellent way to prove myself wrong, net a confirmed Investigator, hopefully kill off scum and if not at least hit someone who's a good vigkill, well, I'm all for that. Extending that on a slightly larger scale? Even better. It's also a way to gauge how interested he is in seriously doing it, which would help me in figuring out his alignment. Given that I was keeping my eyes on him and had strong reservations about him but as yet had no strong evidence or time to garner any seriously in the immediate future, talking about state-sanctioned Murders with SpyreX made perfect sense to me.

4. Quote #1 you'll have to ask SpyreX about; I was merely responding to him. Quote #2 - I did find SpyreX's behavior in acknowledging MoI's statement that he was being scummy on purpose to lower his NK threshhold scummy while using it as a springboard to support his vote on the ElG wagon - the competing wagon - odd and very possibly scummy. I still do find this odd and scummy of SpyreX. It is compounded a little by gut from a fairly mild to a moderate scumtell in the act. Quote #3 is responding to SpyreX again. If we hit tomorrow and, as I hope we have a dead Cult SpyreX we can talk about this more. At this point a lot of the explaining for these random moments would seem to fall on SpyreX's shoulders, not mine.

5. With less time on my hands and with some degree of overload stemming from the game size, I was less engaged that I would have liked and, yes, had a tendency to get interested most when my name was mentioned. I think psychologically that that's well within the bounds of normalcy given those variables. I will argue that my MoI vote was not opportunistic; it was reasoned and based on behavior of MoI's that I found extremely scummy, especially at that time but also earlier in the game:

we had multiple players acting badly around the Furc issue - MoI continuously trying to discredit Furc

I'm happy to report that your response is extremely scummy. "You are definitely not obv-Town" is a mindless, rhetorical repetition of something which I earlier implied to be a scummy statement. No one had been discussing my relative obvtownness of lack thereof to the best of my knowledge; if you're neutral on someone who's not being lauded as obvtown by everyone you don't spend so much time and effort trying to discredit the read. You don't make a case on me being likely scum, you just try to stir the pot and see if you can get any steam to boil up.

I certainly have scumhunted today; your implication that haven't is patently misleading and scummily so. I made a case on Wraith, I discussed a possible Town tactic with SpyreX in context of my ongoing evaluation of his relative scumminess (conclusion: Bit scummier than I'd thought previously, given the asking me to do it and then ignoring what I gave him for a bit; smacked somewhat of making a show of looking busy and trying to find strategies while not actually invested in the process). I've argued against lynches I thought were completely suboptimal (Benmage).

Frankly I don't see any Town motivation for the manner in which you suspected me. Had you made a case and made it clear I was one of your top suspects? We'd have a disagreement. Had you made a list of who's how scummy and put me in between scum and neutral, fine. Make a point of saying out of nowhere that I'm not obvtown when that has not been a factor in the discussion, as far as I can see, at all? You're just trying to muddy the waters. The holier-than-thou hypocritical tone of 'you blew off my questions so why should you expect me to answer yours' is at the very least as bad as what I've done there. I didn't mention the questions (frankly they slipped my mind as I skimmed and I didn't even remember what they were referring to, but from an uninformed perspective it's possible to think I blew them off on purpose and invited accusations over something trivial, which would imply I'm stupid, hut whatever). You noticed the questions but thought they were beneath you.

If you want to argue that the last bit, which was a big chunk of the post in which I voted MoI was supporting an opportunistic vote, well, depending on what you consider opportunistic, I can't effectively argue against it. If I knew why you thought it was opportunistic I'd try, but in lieu of that I'll just point out that I had reasons to find MoI scummy, explained those reasons, and found that the MoI wagon of the moment was a good thing and something I was happy to join.

Regarding El Goosuki and my vote there:

I don't not believe ElGoos is somewhat scummy and a decent lynch (that Night Action choice doesn't quite mkae it to the level of 'forgivable'). I'm somewhat more interested in other veins of scumhunting for varied reasons (other factors which could lead to this level of interest in the game, for example, might apply to ElGoos, but more importantly other players have struck me as scummier, even granting lurking as a scumtell given the tri-headed hydra).

xvart
ElGoosuki
SpyreX
nopointactingup
Wraith?
BabySpice?

In response to Spy asking why I wasn't voting ElG, if I recall. Compounded by ElG's Cower claim, I thought ElG was very well deserving of the lynch I said in that lost was decent. Is it opportunistic to hammer someone you feel this was about?

In conclusion: Your case on me is flawed.

[Seacore]

Nacho, please declare your insanities before reading. There is no town reason not to.

Assuming you do not have vote limiting insanities, please do the following.

Vote Benmage. Unvote. Vote Hito. Unvote. Vote Benmage. Unvote. Vote Hito. Unvote.
This is to prove you have none of the voting limitations. All other players have done this.

[Nachomamma8]

No. I'm going to read first. And by read, I mean do some wagon analysis.

Plum, who wrote that case on you?

[Seacore]

No Nacho, listing insanities without reading is a town act, do so immediately.

[Plum]

No. I'm going to read first. And by read, I mean do some wagon analysis.

Plum, who wrote that case on you?

VasudeVa. Tagfail thar.

Do as Seacore says ASAP please.

[SpyreX]

I want the record to show both the volume and rapidity of words in defense by Plum versus other far more important words.

Remember this after the death takes me.

[Nachomamma8]

Teh Plume case:

1.) ReaperCharles in the "Town alliance of AWESOEM" very early in the game but then quickly disappeared here with very little mention.
2.) SpyreX in the keep an eye on list, but little mention of SpyreX before hand.
3.) Despite having SpyreX in the 'keep an eye on' list, she was still planning out murders with SpyreX here which is...odd.
4.) Random Spy vs. Plum moments that seemed to appear out of nowhere and wasn't even valid to any discussion at that time. These, by all means, do

not

look like genuine Townie interactions at all. Hell, they don't even look like scum-Town interactions.
5.) Appearing only when mentioned, opportunistically voting for MoI and El Goo

So that's VV's case on you?

Spy, why does everyone hate you today?

Seacore, why? Please tell me in your own words.

[SpyreX]

Everyone hates me because I had the awesome combination of a poor start + getting ressed by a dead man yesterday + not getting a clean graverob last night.

MIND YOU, I kind of understand iton face value but there's a whole lot of people going SCUM SCUM SCUM which means that I'm in that tech place where I need to die so this doesn't happen EVERY DAY.

Additionally, and you'll be able to do this:

1.) I am NOT going to flip for a while. Its too valuable to not (see DGB).
2.) When I, in fact, die and show the right number of insanities TAKE A MINUTE and weigh what I've said under the assumption I'm town so it can be used.
3.) Kill someone for me. You'll know who.

[Benmage]

Why would nacho not listen to seacore....no reason not to. I've jumped at replacements before to get them to claim info and have only been met with resistance by scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I've jumped at replacements before to get them to claim info and have only been met with resistance by scum.

Damn. That sounds like a pretty definite meta point. You should lynch me or murder me or something.

Or, you could explain why.
Or, you could live with me doing my reading first and my claiming second.

[Benmage]

I've jumped at replacements before to get them to claim info and have only been met with resistance by scum.

Damn. That sounds like a pretty definite meta point. You should lynch me or murder me or something.

Or, you could explain why.
Or, you could live with me doing my reading first and my claiming second.

I have full intentions of lynching you after spyrex.

1 reason to not give the information now?

[Nicodemus]

Giving the accurate information now obviously makes you look more town, as matching your true insanities and night actions with what NPiAU did will look good, because you simply looked at your pm and got the information (whereas waiting to read makes you look scummier, as you are trying to match your post up to what NPiAU said in thread, a very untown thing to do).

[Wraith]

If Plum's going to do the murdering, then I'm stumped for a night action tonight. I might just rez someone I think is obvtown.

[Wraith]

In fact, I now know who I will be rezzing tonight. Nico's all yours, Plum.

[Seacore]

Nacho,

I will explain my two requests separately.

Declaring all of your insanities - We have all declared all of our insanities, both quantity and quality. I wanted you to do this immediately so you didn't have time, as scum, to work out your best option of claims. I wanted a time stamped very fast claim. This has passed. I still want you to do this, but opportunity for towny points have been lost.

The voting test - We have all done this and I still want you to do this. There are three insanities that cause voting limitations. Depending on your interpretation of the OP, breaking the same insanitiy rule twice may cause you to be modkilled. My voting script I have asked you to complete tests all three twice. Everybody has already done this excluding your slot. Tomorrow I will have a better script that will enable everybody to be properly tested, as it currently stands, Benmage and Hito were probably not effectively tested, by being the two token targets, but I'm confident they aren't cult.

[Nachomamma8]

Lazy, useless town are the types that follow immediately when something is asked of them. By waiting, I was actually able to read the rules and make sure that there wasn't a benefit to me keeping my insanity count to myself. In other words, there might be no reason NOT to, but there's also no reason to just take him for his word.

Declaring all of your insanities - We have all declared all of our insanities, both quantity and quality. I wanted you to do this immediately so you didn't have time, as scum, to work out your best option of claims. I wanted a time stamped very fast claim. This has passed. I still want you to do this, but opportunity for towny points have been lost.

For the record, my count is 0. I'd also like to say that these sorts of things are very... misleading. It wouldn't take much to look in the QT or the thread for your claimed insanity count if scum.

The voting test - We have all done this and I still want you to do this. There are three insanities that cause voting limitations. Depending on your interpretation of the OP, breaking the same insanitiy rule twice may cause you to be modkilled. My voting script I have asked you to complete tests all three twice. Everybody has already done this excluding your slot. Tomorrow I will have a better script that will enable everybody to be properly tested, as it currently stands, Benmage and Hito were probably not effectively tested, by being the two token targets, but I'm confident they aren't cult.

Then I'll wait until tomorrow to do it? I'm not putting Percy through unnecessary torture.

[xvart]

I wouldn't mind having both Plum and Wraith stalk Nico tonight.

I would. Then one could take credit for my kill, even if they didn't make it. I realize that I'm a prime vig target, but this is a stupid plan regardless.

My point was I think both Wraith and Plum are scum and neither can actually kill you. And the other point is that declaring kill targets in thread is worthless because A.) Cult can ward that person; B.) Cult can rez that person regardless of if they are cult or town to put us in the same position that we are in currently. If we are going to assign people then we at least need to double dip so if they want to Ward them cool, they can waste their night actions. If they want to waste night actions warding DBG and SpyreX's grave, that's cool, too. The more they have to ward the less people they have to work with to craft fetishes, and pass fetishes. And they keep racking up insanities.

I don't know where you got this idea. You need to nominate a townie to single-rob and scum to double-rob.

I either want Plum or Wraith or Baby Spice to double rob, and for the town rob probably Seacore. I have to be honest I did my town pick based on insanity count and keeping the townie people who have more insanities from getting more. I considered Trilobite as well, but there is something nagging me that I keep forgetting to ask:

I actually thought that xvart was behind the LB kill until we got MoI's flip. His two instantiates fit the stalk and kill of LB perfectly. However, xvart stalking you after he “cleared” you the night before is just really poor. I like him for a cultist very much right now. Seacore's little paragraph about the game state prior to xvart's stalk is a good point. But xvart already used his night one action to “confirm” furc. The stalk makes zero sense.

Sotty - after playing in a hydra with me as scum I find it difficult to believe that you really thought I would do something so obviously not subtle as trying to hide an insanity by false claiming a stalk. Can you walk me through your thought process here? Do you really think that as a Cult member I would have not thought through claiming a Stalk as Cult and the ramifications of it not going through?

No. I'm going to read first. And by read, I mean do some wagon analysis.

Your insanities are listed in the pm you received from Percy. Just copy/paste. There is no town reason not to.

So that's VV's case on you?

Note #5 and how Plum comes back in and, as SpyreX pointed out, contains more words than most of her posts combined.

Giving the accurate information now obviously makes you look more town

, as matching your true insanities and night actions with what NPiAU did will look good, because you simply looked at your pm and got the information (whereas waiting to read makes you look scummier, as you are trying to match your post up to what NPiAU said in thread, a very untown thing to do).

Do you know that Nacho is not town for some reason?

[Benmage]

Lazy, useless town are the types that follow immediately when something is asked of them. By waiting, I was actually able to read the rules and make sure that there wasn't a benefit to me keeping my insanity count to myself. In other words, there might be no reason NOT to, but there's also no reason to just take him for his word.

Do you think a player would ask you to do something negative? If this was the case, wouldn't the rest of us town call out that player? Throw the book at them? Scum with something to hide and make sure they don't slip are the only ones to delay yielding information. And I am voting you on that premise alone tomorrow. GL, if I didn't already attempt to kill one cult, I'd be killing you another cult.

And to counter. The reason to take him for his word, other than there being no reason not to, is the reason that scum would want to make sure they aren't slipping up in a town trap. Like I said, I've setup scum like this before. It may be a sketchy method of catching scum but its damn effective and after you fall for it once, you bet your ass you check your role pm the QT and anything pertinent before checking into a thread the next time you replace in as scum.

Meanwhile; Wraith you looking for something to do, stalk and kill Nacho.

[Seacore]

Nacho,

everybody will be tested every day for voting insanities. So do it now. You can still be adequately tested, only Benmage and Hito can't today.

[Benmage]

Xvart,

you must also rob grave tonight along with....(laundering). But pick one scum-nom.

Seacore is a good town-nom.

[xvart]

Xvart,

you must also rob grave tonight along with....(laundering). But pick one scum-nom.

Seacore is a good town-nom.

Yeah, I know I am grave robbing and laundering tonight. I'm still narrowing down my scum pick but I wanted to put it out there what I was thinking if anyone wants to weigh in.

[Seacore]

ElG: Benmage, Plum
Furc: Andrius, AV
Wicked: Xvart, AV
Spyrex: Seacore, Plum


I've chosen plum for xvart, but it can easily be swapped out for one of his other noms.
My biggest concern currently is the Andrius/AV rob, but I'm being out voted on this so that's fine.

[Benmage]

Seacore, VPB is my town nom...and I'd rather put your duo on Wicked and Xvarts duo on spyreX

[Benmage]

Its suppose to be:

ELG: Benmage, AV
Furc: VPB, AV
Wicked: Seacore, Plum
SpyreX: Xvart, Plum