Zachtown in the mountains (Game over TOWN WINS!)

[I Am Innocent]

My early post from D1P2.

I stuck by my town list. I don't think I ever voted any of them from this point on. As a matter of fact, I think KD was the only one to ever get lynched, a wagon I was not on.

Reread the thread:

My Top 2
Percy & Nikanor

Runner Ups: Red, Baby Spice, and to a lesser degree, Furcalow, Mina, and Lrdwhyt

Everyone else, town read

@ Baby Spice, I noticed in Post 342 there was a vote count from the mod (9 days prior to the deadline).

In post 343, you list 5 possible scum, one of which was Dry Fit

In post 345, you vote for BenMage, who as of Post 342, was at L-8. Dry Fit was at L-2. The next closest wagon was L-6.

Why didn't you vote for Dry Fit at that point?

vote: Percy

[Sotty7]

SOTTY I heardddsss UU.

<3

Thanks to Sotty for the invite. Sorry my play as townie was not anywhere as solid as my play in our scum game. You and Equinox are free to withdraw your noms...I won't be (too) offended!

Never.

Yay for the win. I felt really crappy once I died, I never made a true case on Thor and was worried he would just charm his way out again. In the end PoE caught up with him. I know he is poorly right now so I can't help but wonder if he could have talked himself out of the first lynch if he was given a chance to post.

Anyway I had fun, thanks for running this Zach.

[jasonT1981]

Thanks for running this Zach. This is my first large game. It at times got me feeling OMG! and it was hard to keep up. but I had a lot of fun

[Oso]

Good game folks.

I'd like to add my thanks to Zach for running the game and to Sotty for inviting me to play in the first place. Again, apologies to all for replacing out. Turns out it was the right thing to do though. Since that time (up until after the New Year) I managed to read/post here about twice, so I'd have real been a drag on my slot. I did wonder why Fitz(me) was NKed N1 but I think I figured it out.

..
Benamge/IaI. Neither looks particularly good to me. IaI for his meltdown (which I hate to admit does point to a townie coming unhinged under pressure from my experience, rather than from scum) and Benmage for his confrontational posting style. I'm still smarting from the last time I tried to look that past that and ended up being wrong. On Benmage, I'm looking for a repeat of my last encounter with him. Get run up/involved in a fight early Day 1, posting like a berserk bulldog and then....I'll let you know if see the same pattern repeat. Up until then, the way he is posting is much more important than any content he is posting in my opinion. He bears watching at any stage of the game.
..

Aside from Dry-Fit, I hadn't managed to cast suspicion on scum with my posting so far but had stated moderate to heavy suspicion on two townies. I am middling surprised that no one, later in the game, did any NK analysis. Aside from killing Locke (who as far as I can see, was probably killed because he was thinking deliberately) scum seem to have been mostly NKing people who didn't suspect them of anything in a major way.

In any case, it was most enjoyable being able to read the game in huge chunks when I had the chance and I thank everyone involved for the experience.

@Zach: I owe you one buddy (several actually). Replacing out as I did, you can PM me at anytime if you need a replacement for any of your games (that goes to any players as well who might be modding down the road and need a replacement) starting about 2 weeks from today. And for letting me play in the first place, Sotty put in a good word because I don't think I qualified to play by the experience qualifiers you put on this game if you just go by my MS games. Thank both you and Sotty for that.

[Oso]

Oh, and I'd like to add my request that the Scum QT link be posted as well

[chesskid3]

why 3/13 and not 4/12?

[Benmage]

2/10 in mountainous is normal. 4/12 would be so broken in favor of scum.

[VP Baltar]

4/12 mountainous pretty heavily favors the scum. Historically, balance in a mountainous game is best at a ratio of 2:10. The double day mechanic is definitely beneficial to the town, so adding an additional scum player was necessary.

On a side note, I'm kind of glad the daytalk during one of the phases was added for the scum team. I think it helped to balance the difficulty of having to survive double lynches every day.

[Oso]

That was a question I was going to ask myself.

When I first /inned for this game (before even receiving a Role PM) I was thinking that P1 would be no-talk and P2 would be scum day-talk. Perhaps even having the scum able to talk without restriction after D1 ended.

[VP Baltar]

It was added later as Zach and I were talking about balancing this as best as possible. The extra scum was obviously necessary, but having them unable to coordinate anything for two consecutive day phases seemed too much in favor of the town.

[Benmage]

I could see a different scum team sweeping this. I'd be down for a redo.

[VP Baltar]

I think if Thor had even one better buddy, things could have been different. Then again, if he had a chance to say something on the final day things could have been different

[Zachrulez]

It was added later as Zach and I were talking about balancing this as best as possible. The extra scum was obviously necessary, but having them unable to coordinate anything for two consecutive day phases seemed too much in favor of the town.

Yeah, I forgot to mention this, but scum got to chose a phase each day to daytalk in, they would not be able to daytalk during the other phase. This became irrelevant after baby spice's lynch so it was mostly an afterthought to me from that point.

[Elmo]

Hrm, gg. I dunno about the balance, I don't really feel the setup factored into the result much, actually I feel we were slightly lucky to lynch Dry-fit even though there was a legit case against him, and unless I missed something I still think we're simply lucky Baby Spice was assigned scum.

Don't think anyone'll want to hear other stuff I could think of. The avatar bet should have gone ahead, obv

[Benmage]

We got luckyish with baby spice and scum got lucky furclow was town. Both weren't making it to lylo.

[Locke Lamora]

Good game, nicely modded, thanks to Zach and VP for creating and running it and to Sotty for the invite! I think it was fairly well balanced and scum just got really hurt by Dry-fit's lynch, which was made a whole lot more likely by the failure to defend himself. Thor had a pretty hard job once BS was lynched and town had so many mislynches remaining, as I don't think many people thought Jason, Benmage or IAI was scum, so credit to him for keeping it going.

[Baby Spice]

Can you feel the love


Nikanor, glad to see it was the size and not my abruptness in the QT that put you out.

Zach

I'm happy for the QT to be posted.

I think the scum team just got off to a horrid start with Dry-fit and Mongoose, and Thor did a brilliant job recovering.
Note to self, never offer to replace into a game and ask for the scummiest position lol

A lot of my actions this game were about getting Nikanor/Thor as squeaky clean as possible and sow as much doubt as possible. More doubt equals more options for mis-lynches. I did hope to survive one more phase though.


Oh, the tell. (From the dead chat). Thor's quote in his siggi.

[Thor665]

I never made a true case on Thor and was worried he would just charm his way out again. In the end PoE caught up with him. I know he is poorly right now so I can't help but wonder if he could have talked himself out of the first lynch if he was given a chance to post.

The beard is charming, but was a bit scraggly towards the end
I dunno, in retrospect I think I've always been either speedlynched or lynched in abstentia every time I've ever been lynched - maybe I'm more charming than I think?
Probably just need more games as scum so people have a better feel for my meta, really.

I think if Thor had even one better buddy, things could have been different. Then again, if he had a chance to say something on the final day things could have been different

I would have killed for a cleaner buddy. At the time I replaced in town had already basically busted the scum team, I was a very depressed thunder-gawd.

Don't think anyone'll want to hear other stuff I could think of. The avatar bet should have gone ahead, obv

I was actually rooting for it to happen for the lulz.

Zach - 2/3 of (current) scum team now approves reveal of scum QT

Mostly it's just me wailing around though - it got lonely.

Off to read the Dead QT for laughs and to be told how horrible my play was

[Thor665]

Dead QT thoughts;

BS - sigging Ben wasn't a scumslip, it was sigged because that comment was friggin' hilarious!

Mina - "Thor's self-vote confirms him as town, but makes me want to throttle him. Thor, I refuse to accept your apology unless you make an effort and show that my loss of my perfect never-been-mislynched streak and death before I could even make my last cases or get a reaction from Percy wasn't in vain."

So, do I need to apologize or just maniacally twiddle my fingers and grin? I'm good at both.

"Still...at the very least, [Sotty] should realize that Thor is obvtown."

I know, right? Total paranoid witch is what she is, assuredly.

Looking over the Dead QT the only clue I have for better play is maybe I should have killed jason earlier and let Sotty live longer for greater Percy lollercoaster events. I was just a little paranoid she'd get off her duff and puzzle out a case on me that people would listen to, so I had to give her the axe both literally and figuratively. I do actually disagree with the Dead QT insomuch as I believe 'disinterested coasting Thor' saved my butt for a while there. I did want to try for the win, but my strategy *was* to just try to make the game a bit of a miserable morass as that is high fun times for scum.

[Mina]

GODDAMN IT, ZACH!

I TOLD YOU NOT TO POST THE GRAVEYARD QT!

*sobs*

*crawls under a rock*

So anyway, good game, town! Thanks to Zach for modding. I do think the set-up was very town-biased, because scum would have needed a sheer number of incompetent players in the game in order to have a hope of surviving by PoE.

Thor was definitely the scum MVP (and I am never trusting him again), but got screwed over by PoE. The Dry-Fit flip resulted in too many confirmed townies to be taken care of by nightkills.

Although this was a dysfunctional town at times, there was a lot of very strong town play. I won't name everyone, but special credit goes to Sotty and Locke, who both played excellent games. Quite a few of the players looked obvtown throughout (although some of that was by virtue of the flips).

IAI, in your defence, I also thought Equinox had a point about Furcolow. It's just how blase everyone (not so much you) was in jumping on Furcolow's wagon.

Oso, it should have been obvious why you were killed. Not for your reads before replacing out, but because you were the first vote on Dry-Fit, and therefore almost guaranteed not to be scum.

Reflecting on my performance this game, I'm very unsatisfied with it. I don't think I was right about anything except by coincidence, made myself look horribly scummy by white-knighting too much, and added little positive and coasted while scum were being wagoned. In retrospect, although I threw a fit over it in the graveyard QT, the town was better off for not having heard my last reads. But hey, a win is a win.

Oh, and Benmage? Here's your new avatar.

(Percy, I revoked my bet. IT DOESN'T COUNT!)

[Baby Spice]

Must say though that the phrase "Love Mina" did appear more than once in the scum QT, from both Thor and myself.

Siggi thing was more that it was the only real link between us. Perhaps I saw it for more than it was because I knew more.

[Equinox]

Thanks for modding, Zachrulez! Also, thank you for the invite, Sotty7, even though I didn't respond to it right away.

You and Equinox are free to withdraw your noms...I won't be (too) offended!

No way. I saw your record recently, and I still think you deserve it.

Probably just need more games as scum so people have a better feel for my meta, really.

Stop being so obvtown and we won't be suspicious of you come Day 6.

Seriously, though, you played well here, and I wouldn't have pegged you as scum if I didn't have stronger town reads on my hands.

Oh, and Benmage? Here's your new avatar.

The mental image of Benmage looking at his new avatar made my day.

[Zachrulez]

So anyway, good game, town! Thanks to Zach for modding. I do think the set-up was very town-biased, because scum would have needed a sheer number of incompetent players in the game in order to have a hope of surviving by PoE.

It felt that way to me... though I'm not sure if it actually was. Any suggestions to balance the scales?

[Oso]

I wouldn't worry on it too much, Zach. I think it did what it was supposed to do. Mountainous is supposed to put the focus on players rather than roles, yes?

Your set-up did that just fine, in my opinion. If either Dry-fit or [Mongoose/Baby Spice] had managed to avoid being lynched even by one day, that would have added another mis-lynch/NK to the pot and might just have tipped the scale in Scum's favor.

On re-reading the game a couple of times, Dry-fit had an excellent opportunity to avoid his lynch D1P1 simply by showing up and posting. I get the real impression that Dry-fit was lynched half because some really thought he was scum and half because he didn't post much of a defense. For just about 4 real life days, he had 3 or less votes on him. Had he been less busy with real-life, I am sure he could have talked his way out of that lynch.

Guess what I'm trying to say is that I think the balance was just fine. Scum just had a thing or two break the wrong way, because of players/real life not because of set-up, in the early game that made their position position pretty unrecoverable.

[Elmo]

Eh, I don't really agree with respect to this specific game, I mean town won with literally one lynch left after an arguably great start. I think the setup itself is a mix of vanilla normal and nightless, and in my opinion therefore shares some balance problems e.g. 4:8 nightless has - some people consider that balanced, though, it's indefinitely debatable until people play more games. You'd probably do better to try and balance vanilla nightless first and then try to apply the knowledge to this setup. I'm probably not gonna comment on this specific game unprompted.