Mafia of the Chosen Ones (Game Over!)

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: Do you feel that the single post by magua is scummier than the evidence presented against gud/mothrax/spice/kitoari? How is it that big of a deal?

Not necessarily. It needs addressing because scum were someone was able to squeeze in a last minute kill and that question by magua seemed a lot like stalling so he could decide just who he wanted to kill.

[Vi]

Vote Count IV:

Fierce clashes

Guderian (L-4) ~ inHimshallibe, Andrius, Kitoari, mothrax,

Jack,

VasudeVa, Empking

Jack (L-8) ~ Guderian, Magua
mothrax (L-8) ~ Baby Spice, RayFrost
Kitoari (L-8) ~ Equinox, Jack
Magua (L-9) ~ Nachomamma8

Not Voting:

AGar, AlmasterGM,

Empking,

Fate, Furcolow, Katsuki,

Nachomamma8,

singersigner

AGar 1 | AGM 0 | Andrius 0 | BS 0 | Emp 0 | Equi 0 | Fate 0 | Furc 1 | Gud 0 | inHim 0 | Jack 0 | Kat 0 | Kito 0 | Magua 0 | moth 0 | Nacho 0 | Ray 0 | sinsig 0 | Vas 0

--With 19 alive, it will take 10 to lynch.

Battery power:

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(95%)

--HOLY ORDER--

-The Fallen Seraph team currently possesses 165 Faith.

[Equinox]

Re: RhinoX. Trying to clear people based on the nightkill submission is a pointless exercise until you know if "attempted the impossible" is NK flavor or not, because that totally reverses where the suspicion falls. I still don't think it's NK flavor, FWIW.

I see what you're saying, but none of the other possibilities I've considered make any logical sense, and I really don't want to wait until Day 3. It's more of a "note to self" exercise than anything, so it won't be my sole focus for today. This thread is more interesting, anyway.

Having trouble deciding whether Guderian's frustration is town-anger or scum-anger (but it is genuine, though). Will sleep on this. Opinions and stuff welcome.

I thought about this whole Guderian thing while driving. I have a conclusion, but I want to see Guderian's next post before I reveal.

Eek. IoA. Do not want.

Scum voting after Andy seems risky, reguardless of Andy's alignment.

I don't follow. Can you elaborate on this, please?

I was expressing some doubts about whether Andy was town or not for specifically calling for a quick lynch (Actually just before there), and really I'm unsure because it's such a loud "look at me" type of post/vote.

It seems to me that the next vote would have attracted a decent amount of attention too, and so would be less likely to be a scum vote.

Especially with Mothrax's vote being delivered the way it was.
It felt like he was trying to hook into Andy's quick lynch push but being free to claim he wasn't.

I was more interested in your statement that "scum voting after Andy" was a risky move. I thought that voting after it's clear a policy quicklynch was on the agenda would be less risky... so I'm trying to see your train of thought here.

What do you think of the situation here -- that nobody has gone under serious fire for their vezokpiraka votes?

Is spice playing like she did as scum? I can probably find a town game with relative ease to read, but knowing scum-meta will quicken the process for me as well.

Can't tell at the moment. (If you're interested in reading material, Zachtown in the Mountains.)

[Equinox]

Re: RhinoX. Trying to clear people based on the nightkill submission is a pointless exercise until you know if "attempted the impossible" is NK flavor or not, because that totally reverses where the suspicion falls. I still don't think it's NK flavor, FWIW.

I see what you're saying, but none of the other possibilities I've considered make any logical sense, and I really don't want to wait until Day 3. It's more of a "note to self" exercise than anything, so it won't be my sole focus for today. This thread is more interesting, anyway.

And, just as I'm ready to start, I realize how utterly fruitless an expedition this would be. The only thing I'd get out of it would be, "Oh, hey, one of these XX people are the scum." Yeeeah, so useful. >_<

So I'm scratching this off now.

[Equinox]

Yay, triple posting.

It took 5 hours for the PL to happen. More than enough time for scum and their buddies to huddle up in their daytalk QT.

May I ask where you got this figure?

[Magua]

I'm posting here too. Keep your pants on.

(Please. *Please* keep your pants on.)

I'll hammer once two people answer this question: Who would you be voting if Vezok wasn't in this game?

Just for you, Magua.

But why just two? And why did it matter? You were killing a guy, and usually once the killing starts happening, RVS is over.

Why not two? More than one, less than three. One is stupid; shouldn't even bother. Could've done three, but I didn't want to get two responses and then either have to say "screw it" and vote anyways.

Getting more information -- any information -- out of the policy lynch beats, in my mind, getting no information out of it. This was my attempt to get some information out of it before it happened.

Nacho: Do you feel that the single post by magua is scummier than the evidence presented against gud/mothrax/spice/kitoari? How is it that big of a deal?

Not necessarily. It needs addressing because scum were someone was able to squeeze in a last minute kill and that question by magua seemed a lot like stalling so he could decide just who he wanted to kill.

So, I want to make sure I understand this: the cunning plan is that I asked this question in post #46 at 8:32 CST in order to "stall" so that I could then vote in #49 at 8:33 CST, instead of simply submitting a kill and then voting?

Seriously?

[Magua]

Pre-emptively: Screw anyone who quotes this post and says "IIoA." I will eat your babies.

--HOLY ORDER--


-The Fallen Seraph team currently possesses 165 Faith.

This is incredibly informative if true. There's two possibilities:
1) It's fake, from the Fallen Seraph team. Doubt this. The global communication power is probably non-trivial (Still, Small Voice was 40 faith) and can only be used once.
2) It's real, and it tells us something about how much the Fallen Seraph team gets from lynches. I doubt this is Still, Small Voice -- I believe it's a power invoked by the town Seraphs that simply broadcasts the amount of faith they have publicly.

To wit: I'm starting with these assumptions from MoHO.
Start with 100 faith. Gain 10% faith per RL day.

Therefore:
Scum Seraphs started with 100 faith.
They gained X faith from the quicklynch.
They gained (100 + X) * 10% from the day.
(100 + X) * 1.1 = 165
100 + X = 150
X = 50

Since the battery power was 100%, this would mean that the scum gain 50% of the battery power from a lynch. (Scum gained 33% of the battery in MoHO, so this is an improvement for them)

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT:

[/size] It's 99% certain that the town seraphs gain 100% of the battery power from the lynch (as in MoHO). This means that we gain

twice

the faith from a lynch that the scum do. Someone spent faith to either find this out, or tell us this, or both. That makes it important.

tl; dr: We are heavily incentivized to *not* let these days drag on until deadline. Every two points of battery power left when we lynch is worth an extra faith for us.

[Magua]

Re: RhinoX. Trying to clear people based on the nightkill submission is a pointless exercise until you know if "attempted the impossible" is NK flavor or not, because that totally reverses where the suspicion falls. I still don't think it's NK flavor, FWIW.

I see what you're saying, but none of the other possibilities I've considered make any logical sense, and I really don't want to wait until Day 3. It's more of a "note to self" exercise than anything, so it won't be my sole focus for today. This thread is more interesting, anyway.

And, just as I'm ready to start, I realize how utterly fruitless an expedition this would be. The only thing I'd get out of it would be, "Oh, hey, one of these XX people are the scum." Yeeeah, so useful. >_<

So I'm scratching this off now.

Essentially. If it's a NK, it's not incredibly useful information. You know that the three people who hadn't confirmed yet didn't submit it, and there's some level of confidence that those who hadn't posted didn't submit it..but that doesn't mean they couldn't be scum. All it really tells you is that of the 13 people who had voted and so had plenty of time to submit it, at least one is likely to be scum, which we already knew.

It's much more informative if it's *not* a night kill, as that clears those who were on around the "Andriusteria" and could've foreseen there was a lynch, from having *any kill at all that day*. This is what I'm holding it out for. We'll likely find out after this day's lynch.

[singersigner]

That all being said, AGar, Empking, and Nachomamma need to get their rears in gear and post.

Aw what? No love?

K, all read up now. Thoughts forthcoming.

Also, Fate, I want to apologize for almost insulting you elsewhere on this site. It was not intentional. <3

[Magua]

That all being said, AGar, Empking, and Nachomamma need to get their rears in gear and post.

Aw what? No love?

You had not yet confirmed when I wrote that. They had.

[AlmasterGM]

God I go away for a day and BAM - POSSSSTINGGGGGG. I'm heading back up to school this weekend too, so I'm going to be

V/LA until Monday.

I should be able to get a few posts in before then, though - I'm just not going to be as up-to-date as I'd like to be.

[Andrius]

<3 YOUR SIG MAGUA.

Yeah. Seraph Faith is interesting.

Katsuki thanks for claiming scum with Gud! I think we can kill you D3 for a change. Guderian today yes? Oh, I think I know the strategy.
SCUM A: GUDERIAN. Stop posting. Just don't post for awhile and attention will divert elsewhere.
Gud: OK.
KATSUKI: LOLOLOLOLOL IMMA PLAY AND NOT READ THE THREAD.
Scum A: /wrists

RF, Imma ISO BS and I'll get back to you.

[Andrius]

I think Andy could be scummy for calling for the quick lynch for mana, but then as a scum move it's a bit of a "look at me" move too.

This is just horridly undecisive. "Could be scummy". Not scum. "Could be" and "scummy". Either what I did was:
A) SCUMMY
B) NOT SCUMMY

BS is also hypocritical. She said she read the rules/scum powers from the last game, but FAILED TO SEE that scum benefit from the faith LESS THAN TOWN. HRM

Brings up scummy Guderian in connection to me. Like "yes buddy is scummy but oh look at this guy I'm trying to soil over here who is obvtown".

BS also pushes mothrax EASY. HRM

Baby Spice is definitely scum from my POV. I cannot, however, provide references because the games are still on-going. (Unless if she's dead its ok)

[Katsuki]

I hadn't planned on posting this tonight since I'm busy with essays and what not, but all this LOLOL WE QUICKLYNCH LULZ is pissing me off.

Will be making a post tomorrow why continual quick-lynching this early on is scummy.

Short summary of the case is that the SCUM SERAPHS need more faith EARLY ON in order to UNITE THE SCUM TEAMS if the setup is like in MOHO, whereas the TOWN SERAPHS NEED TOWN READS TO GIVE PRS TO.

Quick lynching gives an early faith boost, which, going by the setup of the last game, benefits scum more so, and also robs the town-seraphs the ability to gain any reads, which scum seraphs do not need.

p.s. Gah probably not the most well organized post in terms of my thoughts, but I hope the message gets across.
__________________

@Andrius: Am I scum by virtue of not having yet read this thread?

[Andrius]

And if you HAD read it, you read it incorrectly.
Not a strong read, but you're scummy fo' sho' cupcake.

[Magua]

I hadn't planned on posting this tonight since I'm busy with essays and what not, but all this LOLOL WE QUICKLYNCH LULZ is pissing me off.

Will be making a post tomorrow why continual quick-lynching this early on is scummy.

Who...for the love of God, WHO is doing "continual quick-lynching"?

How about this: Instead of going on about something that's not happening, you give three FoSes.

[Baby Spice]

Dark Seraph gets a mana boost and knows who to give powerz too, or can unite earlier if seperate scum groups.
Light Seraphs

Have

to spend mana (Assuming similar to moho) and don't have town reads. Means light Seraphs might give light powerz to scumz. (Or sub-optimally give out powers)

That's why I think the quick lynch was pushed by scum. But I really felt that Andy was genuine town in doing it. Hence voting Mothrax who subtly cited quick lynching as part of his vote.

btw Andy:

mothrax... I'm not sure. I'd actually have to look at his stuff instead of just breezing through the game on a cloud like I've done.

Did you ever look at his stuff?

[Andrius]

I don't like how mothrax was kinda' spammy at the beginning.
Or how he calls Jack's stuff shit.
Because I know Jack can be effective.

[VasudeVa]

@VasudeVa: Do you think they're partners?

Right now I do. Why do you ask? Are we against 2 scumteams or something?

PS: RF is FoS worthy right about now. Also, I'm not used to seeing an active inHim. o.O

[singersigner]

Dark Seraph gets a mana boost and knows who to give powerz too, or can unite earlier if seperate scum groups.
Light Seraphs

Have

to spend mana (Assuming similar to moho) and don't have town reads. Means light Seraphs might give light powerz to scumz. (Or sub-optimally give out powers)

That's why I think the quick lynch was pushed by scum. But I really felt that Andy was genuine town in doing it. Hence voting Mothrax who subtly cited quick lynching as part of his vote.

I disagree. Because of how the Faith is distributed, it's optimal to give the Seraphs more faith in the beginning when we can afford to make a mistake. Plus, it really told us a lot about who was online posting, as far as potential scumz needing to send in a kill at that time. The QL was highly town-motivated in my opinion.

How exactly did you read Andrius as genuine town pushing the QL?

[Katsuki]

Dark Seraph gets a mana boost and knows who to give powerz too, or can unite earlier if seperate scum groups.
Light Seraphs

Have

to spend mana (Assuming similar to moho) and don't have town reads. Means light Seraphs might give light powerz to scumz. (Or sub-optimally give out powers)

That's why I think the quick lynch was pushed by scum. But I really felt that Andy was genuine town in doing it. Hence voting Mothrax who subtly cited quick lynching as part of his vote.

I disagree. Because of how the Faith is distributed, it's optimal to give the Seraphs more faith in the beginning when we can afford to make a mistake. Plus, it really told us a lot about who was online posting, as far as potential scumz needing to send in a kill at that time. The QL was highly town-motivated in my opinion.

How exactly did you read Andrius as genuine town pushing the QL?

Why is it optimal to focus on giving seraphs faith rather than actually playing?

[Andrius]

THATS NOT THE POINT KAT.
THEY NEED FAITH TO OPERATE.
WE NEEDED VEZOK DEAD.
IT WAS LIKE THE DAY THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
KATSUKI IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED JUST SAY SO AND WE CAN WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT HAPPENED.
BUT YOU ARE JUST ACTING DUMB.

[Baby Spice]

How exactly did you read Andrius as genuine town pushing the QL?

I don't think I can answer yet due to ongoing games. When I can I will.

[Katsuki]

THATS NOT THE POINT KAT.
THEY NEED FAITH TO OPERATE.
WE NEEDED VEZOK DEAD.
IT WAS LIKE THE DAY THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
KATSUKI IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED JUST SAY SO AND WE CAN WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT HAPPENED.
BUT YOU ARE JUST ACTING DUMB.

Seraphs need faith.

However, early on, faith-rush benefits scum more than town, y/n? If not, explanation is needed.

Also I'm not exactly talking about D1 (yet). I whole-heartedly agree with vezok policy. Though there are other shenanigans that occured to me last night that will require me to read the thread before commenting on.

[singersigner]

THATS NOT THE POINT KAT.
THEY NEED FAITH TO OPERATE.
WE NEEDED VEZOK DEAD.
IT WAS LIKE THE DAY THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
KATSUKI IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED JUST SAY SO AND WE CAN WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT HAPPENED.
BUT YOU ARE JUST ACTING DUMB.

QFT.

If I had been around in last 24 hours, I definitely would've pushed Vezok's lynch. He's not helpful to town, and would've been more detrimental to us had he stayed around. It only worked out so conveniently that it would directly help the Light Seraph, too.

This is why it's mildly concerning that RayFrost kept pushing the idea that we were continually forcing QLs (Kat, too, for that matter)...it only happened once, and a wagon of 5 (I don't think Gud was much further than that at the time), isn't even close to a lynch. Wagons help gain information. It seemed like both of them were too concerned with the the lynches, rather than the information we've been gaining from wagons growing, etc. Neither of their concerns seemed town-motivated, IMO.

Why is it optimal to focus on giving seraphs faith rather than actually playing?

Why do you believe that by doing so, we are not actually playing? Town and scum united in the same goal for D1 (getting rid of an idiot as well as providing their respective Seraphs with more Faith), and now we have to sort through what happened. The only difference being that town was able to force scum to submit a kill, so we can use that to our advantage.

How exactly did you read Andrius as genuine town pushing the QL?

I don't think I can answer yet due to ongoing games. When I can I will.

Both of you seem to think that the other has the opposite agenda according to an on-going game. That's useless to us. If you can't find examples other than that, you need to look elsewhere to allow the rest of town to confirm your suspicions (YES THIS MEANS YOU, TOO, ANDRIUS <3).

BS and Andy:
What about the other's respective play-style in THIS GAME do you find incriminating and/or out of the ordinary?