Simpsons Mafia (Game Over)

[DemonHybrid]

DBE is definite town. For those of you that have played with me, I put pre-L-1 VT claims in an extremely favorable light. But that's for another day in Mafia Discussion.

[LlamaFluff]

DBE is definite town. For those of you that have played with me, I put pre-L-1 VT claims in an extremely favorable light. But that's for another day in Mafia Discussion.

Dont steal my thing, ive been doing that for two years. This hits a couple of the requirements to make the player obv town, but does miss a few more. Given that DBE was already town before that claim though, she remains town.

[Nero Cain]

Nero cain, do you think DBE is town?

Her play certianly sucks. She started off playin' the rusty card. "I haven't played in awhile." etc. I really don't like her "FIND ME SCUMMY FOR SOMETHING INSTEAD OF ISO!!!" Now its all sympathy stuff...

I have the virus now - not gonna pass it unless the town wants me to.

So had you asked me pre-claim I would have said yes.

Now?

I don't watch the Simpson's so how big of a character is Grounds Keeper Willie?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Nero....I think you're mixing up games lol

[Nero Cain]

oh snork...

[Steven Hacking]

Vote: Deer

He's been using weak reasons to vote weak players and not much more. Stating a case as "zomg look at his/her iso" is not a case. Other than that, alot of one line fluff that gets us nowhere. First tried to join and push the DBE case and when that stopped moving tried to get everyone on Nero. Not that either of them did much scummy in my opinion, mostly VI type reads. Goes back to DBE after no one really cares about nero, who's next Tragedy? I really think we need to take a closer look at Deer, baring that, it's back to...

FOS: Jason

What happened to the Jasonwagon? Did everyone ditch it for others that were easier to push? When doing my read through I found Jason entirely obsessed with meta, not just regarding the hydras but any opportunity to bring up meta was taken. When pressure was put on him is when he really started to squirm. Making seriously reaching votes on the easiest targets available, (Tragedy for word choice, DBE for making no sense/claiming woman, Nacho for neglecting the game, etc.) I'll admit since he's gotten more room to breathe, his posts are starting to make a little bit of sense. I still feel a Jason lynch will be way better than alot of the unhelpful but less scummy wagons we've had rolling.

Whereas other players who had early suspicions have stepped up, in my opinion and started posting better (eg. hiraki) or continued to be both unhelpful and unscummy (eg. Tragedy, DBE), the players noted above have made some really weak/reaching arguements on players that are just not that scummy.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Beavers, about the meta thing. I can understand somebody using meta for/against someone in games they've played, but not wanting to go out of their way to find meta in games they weren't even in. I don't see the irony and lolololololol.

Deer, doesn't it bring it more to our attention if you come out with actual reasons why players are scummy rather than just saying their ISO looks bad, but you can't recall why? Finding the scum is only half the town game. The other half is getting the rest of the town to side with you. You either are scum, or you should work on this in future games.

Tvella, did you read my post or were you responding to something you dreamed up? First of all, my point on you was that you said Darla was a slight scummish read, not a high scum read, then voted her. Darla happened to be a hot target for votes/suspicion at the time. I said nothing about why you suspected her, the fact that it was the third vote, or lurking. You just decided that those were the points you'd defend against. Why? I couldn't tell you. I definitely didn't mention any of those points against you, yet you felt the need to say how ridiculous they are and even bold the lurking thing. I do, however, feel like Nacho and Demon should explain their tvella votes.

Something about Llama's tvella vote smells like bussing. I'll pass judgement until one of the two flips, but if tvella or Llama is scum, expect me to look into that post a little more.

If I turn up dead after one of them flips, someone look at this

Diddin, you mention that Tragedy was apologizing for something. She actually used the word chainsaw to describe what she did. We have no scum flips. Chainsaw means attacking someone because they are attacking your scumbuddy. Yes, she says unintentional. However, with no scum flips, how does she know who is scum? It makes no sense.

Mari, your link isn't to an explanation for my town read on you. It's the quick analysis I did later of Hiraki's wagon. I decided that the vote was pretty null, so it didn't really affect my read on you at all.

The Fonz, Wraith's actions are hard to read. He seems pretty careless, but then seems to try to get into the game because he seems to feel like he owes it to the Mod/players. I dunno, I lean town on him. I feel like he'd have felt like he was letting any scumbuddies down before he provided decent posts.

Jason, voting style isn't a reason to have a read on Benmage. It's a playsyle thing for most people that doesn't change based on alignment.

Boberz, again, what gives you the impression that Tragedy plays for survival regardless of alignment? And you misunderstood my post at Deer. I meant that he was pushing Darla as scum, meaning he thought Darla was scum. I wasn't saying that scum was accusing Deer. I think The Fonz explained it right, but his explanation confused me a little, lol. As for my read on you, check my ISO. There's been probably 2-3 times where I either questioned you about something or made a point against you. Those 2-3 things ended up either being answered to my satisfaction, or they turned out to be null tells. If it helps make my read more clear, there are quite a few players who I'd be willing to lynch before you.

Llama, I don't even get what you are tying to say in response to Benmage about me. I wasn't going to mention the whole thing at all, but Hiraki flat out said that his thing WASN'T role related, but he was just lazy. Therefore, it was safe to point out Benmage's probing of Hiraki without taking any chance of exposing info that Hiraki may have had, because Hiraki confirmed that there was no info. Oh, and it was Hiraki that seemed like he may have had info, not Ben. But Hiraki already said he didn't, so yeah. Also, I never said anyone was scum for having info. Actually, it may benefit you to reread the entire situation.

[The Fonz]

DBE is definite town. For those of you that have played with me, I put pre-L-1 VT claims in an extremely favorable light. But that's for another day in Mafia Discussion.

I do the opposite. There are few things that kill towns more than its members leaking role information when it's not necessary, whereas scum have little incentive not to do it, since people jump to defend anything that looks like bad play nowadays.

That said, DBE wasn't a top scumread before, so I'm not minded to go there. If someone else gets run up and claims power, this may change.

[sottyrulez]

I'm still on board for DBE. Either she's scum or she's just completely flighty and confused town. Since there is no way to prove that the latter is actually the case, I don't mind lynching her. If she flips scum, hurray. If she flips town, we at least didn't lose anyone that would be of much help to us.

Btw, Darla, I'm not entirely sure how much you know about mafia protocol, but if you get close to being lynched and someone expresses intent to hammer, you should claim your role.

Hopefully I'll get an ISO of her when Diff Eq isn't being so time-consuming.

This post stinks....

Maybe it's because you reason away her lynch as either flip. Maybe it is because you seem over eager for a role claim, or maybe it is because I even forgot you were in this game.

Other than Darla who are your scum reads and why?

= = = = = =

Steven, we are more than willing to restart the Jason wagon if you are. We think he is likely scum.

With holding my judgement on the Darla claim until I can speak to my other head. Right now I really don't like how Kage pushes for a claim and then gets one right away.

Sleepless:

What is your experience with me? You claim I am good scum but we have never played a game with each other that I remember.

~Sotty

[KageLord]

As I said before, Hiraki was my #2 scum read. Main reason at this point is that 2 of his "____ needs to die" reads have now seemingly become neutral reads as there is no steam on their wagons (DH and tvella).

Obviously I'll have to reread at some point though since I don't think that's a good enough reason.

lol at SensFan, Guderian, and Zang not having posted for a week or more.

I'm still on board for DBE. Either she's scum or she's just completely flighty and confused town. Since there is no way to prove that the latter is actually the case, I don't mind lynching her. If she flips scum, hurray. If she flips town, we at least didn't lose anyone that would be of much help to us.

Btw, Darla, I'm not entirely sure how much you know about mafia protocol, but if you get close to being lynched and someone expresses intent to hammer, you should claim your role.

Hopefully I'll get an ISO of her when Diff Eq isn't being so time-consuming.

This post stinks....

Maybe it's because you reason away her lynch as either flip. Maybe it is

because you seem over eager for a role claim

, or maybe it is because I even forgot you were in this game.

Other than Darla who are your scum reads and why?

Right now I really don't like how Kage pushes for a claim and then gets one right away.

How can I control Darla being a complete noob? I would think that any reasonable person would check how many votes are on their wagon before assuming they are at L-1 and claiming. Did she really think she had gone from 3 votes to L-1 in one page? Anyway, clearly the reasoning for that part of the post (that she's dazed and confused) has been proven accurate by her premature claim.

[Mariyta]

Heh, I think it's safe to call Darla confused town from now on. And in other news, Sotty's attack on Kage for asking for and getting the claim is extremely weak, at best.

[jasonT1981]

Emergency V/LA - Some issues have been brewing for the last month and come to a head today that have resulted in me having stacks of paperwork to do, as well as having to explore legal options and am stressed to hell with the situation.

Will reply to Sotty quickly though.

Sotty, yes I have played DTM before, but without going looking through past games I do not actually have a meta on him.. Sorry, but I just don't remember everything people have done in past games that I have played with as town or scum. So if your asking do I have meta on DTM, no sorry I don't...just because I have played before with them does not mean I have a meta read.. especially with it being two people on the account also and not only DTM..

the only people in this game I actually have any sort of Meta on is yourself and Zach as I have played you both so much. I still do say you are town

Anyway, I do agree on Darla. I have had my say on her and my reasons are clear.

unvote
vote: Darla

[boberz]

Boberz, again, what gives you the impression that Tragedy plays for survival regardless of alignment?

I have done this already. Tragedy has no incentive to deliberately look to want to survive. Tragedy is clearly attempting to appear this way (the shameless OMGUS for example) therefore I conclude that tragedy wants to look like somebody who is a survivalist. Therefore tragedy must have survivalist tendancies. Do not ask again, it is distracting and pointless.

---

On the Darla stuff. A few things:

Firstly that wagon cleared so quickly that if Darla is scum then I am betting that somebody who came off the wagon is bussing scum looking for an excuse to jump off it.

Secondly I do not think it should be treated as a pre L-1 vote, I believe Darla thought it was L-1 and his lack of awareness ingame is evidence to support this theory.

Thirdly Groundskeeper Willy is 'bad' in several episodes (if I remember correctly, my simpsons is a bit rusty) and certainly does not fit what I would imagine as a VT in this game.

Fourthly, for those of us not enlightened, what is so town like about DBE according to those fleeing his wagon?

[sottyrulez]

A Vanilla claim is no good reason to see a Darla wagon die now.

[Scott Brosius]

Vote Count 12

Benmage(0)-
boberz(1)- SensFan,
DarlaBlueEyes(5)- KageLord, boberz, tvellalott, sottyrulez , jasonT1981,
Deer(1)-Steven Hacking,
DemonHybrid(0)-
diddin(0)-
Fuzzy Beavers(0)-
Guderian(1)-hiraki
hiraki(6)- Mariyta, Benmage, Guderian, ribwich, DarlaBlueEyes, Wraith,
jasonT1981(2)- diddin, Nero Cain,
KageLord(1)-Fuzzy Beavers,
LlamaFluff(0)-
Mariyta(0)-
Nachomamma8(0)-
Nero Cain(1)-Deer,
ribwich(0)-
SensFan(0)-
Sleepless Assassin(0)-
sottyrulez(0)-
Steven Hacking(0)-
The Fonz(0)-
Tragedy(1)-Sleepless Assassin,
tvellalott(3)- Nachomamma8, DemonHybrid, LlamaFluff,
Wraith(1)-The Fonz,


Not Voting(1)-Tragedy,

With 24 alive, it's 13 to lynch. Deadline is January 27th at 1pm (EST)

[sottyrulez]

Kagelord's 437 is also lynch worthy.

[sottyrulez]

And where the hell is Jason? Usually by now he'd be eager to get his vote on Kagelord for that rolefishing post.

[ribwich]

Sleepless was doing a full game re-read that only got up to page so and so, while you selectively skimmed and chose to ignore the reveal of DTM only a couple of posts down from your name. I fail to see the similarity.

I'm still really failing to see what your point is with this. So jason was lazy and decided to just do a quick skim before making a post, so what? Why is that scummy?

@Ribwich
This post
1. No I'm saying that you can't meta me at all. You can't compare me to my town meta, nor can you compare me to my scum meta. It's called risk versus reward play and if you can't meta me, that means you either whine about it or do something to invoke a response. I'm gauging how you're scum hunting and it's quite unimpressive sir if you're stuck over meta. If you eliminate meta as a way to attack someone, then DO SOMETHING ELSE. Townies WHO CARE ABOUT SCUM HUNTING WILL FIND A WAY. Being stuck about meta is an excuse.

2. If you consider "rereading games" to figure out information on your own "to generate your own reads" to be a waste of energy then I have one thing to say: Loololololololololololololololololol.

Also it helps ME get a READ ON YOU. So lololololololololololol the irony is funny. The guy using meta finding in his arguments, WON'T DO ANY WORK TO FIND META READS ON THE PLAYER HE'S ATTACKING.

Except I wasn't using meta findings in my argument. My argument was that your "hee hee guess who I am!" game was a distraction at best and an attempt to hide a scum meta at worst. I never claimed that I would be the one to find that meta if it was the latter.

I don't watch the Simpson's so how big of a character is Grounds Keeper Willie?

Big enough that it wouldn't be surprising to see him, but also small enough that it wouldn't be surprising to not see him.

And in other news, Sotty's attack on Kage for asking for and getting the claim is extremely weak, at best.

I agree. The only thing I could possibly see as noteworthy from Kage's post is that it could have been coaching a scumbuddy, but even that would be weak.


I wasn't huge for a DBE lynch in the first place, but I'm not really getting why people are acting like an early claim makes her obvtown. The character claim in her first post is legit, but there's two things:

1. Willy isn't exactly a saint. He wouldn't be my first pick as scum if I were designing this theme, but it could certainly work.
2. Scum could have been given safe claims.

[Nachomamma8]

Is it the avatar that fools you people? Are you afraid of being racist or something? He might be a well-mannered looking bear, but he is still a bear. And bears are never interested in finding scum, except in Salmon Mafia. Just look at him!

Hello all! I wonder who Fuzzy is... o.O;

Anyway,
@demonhybrid: erm, no.

VOTE: DemonHybrid

Posted that before I read all the pages, derp.

If it truly was a trap, what's the next play?

Lynch boberz, pretty much. It was a clouded attempt to hop on my wagon and a really weak justification when called out.

I agree with everyone about Hiraki to some degree, but I need to do more info gathering until I can make a good decision about him.

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure if his actions so far are lynch worthy. Lets see where this goes.

"Let's see where this goes"? Let's see where WHAT goes? You just unvoted, and provided nothing more! You're stagnating the game, good bear, and you're wondering where everything goes? It would be weird for town to expect laying off the pressure entirely would go somewhere, but it would make a nice excuse for scum to lay back and act like they did something!

This person needs to die to, before DH. That makes me sigh.

Unvote, Vote: tvellalot

Hardly.
The content is coming, it's still ridiculously early in the game.

Preemptive defending? It's so confusing! You know what you did wrong, don't you bear? But you still act like his accusations are nothing! Trying to play off a guilty consciousness, bear? Well we don't do things like that here.

tvellalott

If you're going to wait for a damn bait, then make start an accusation. As mentioned somehow earlier, blindly following people causes major mislynches and big scum tells.

also @diddins&hariki
I don't understand how anyone could mistake me unvoting for 'blindly following'. His explanation for his actions were plausible enough to warrant an unvote, but not enough to put my vote on boberz, which could be called blindly following. The whole business won't be forgotten and can be later referenced if any inconsistances are found, derp.

anyway, so far my reads are:
sens: town - I like his scum hunting, although initially I thought scum because of the vote-only posts, but I've reconsidered.
darla: scummish - A slight rumbling in my stomach says that post #217 was deflecting to scotty and #221 seemed overly defensive.
VOTE: DarlaBlueEyes

Two scumreads? what, did you get a nullread off the whole DemonHybrid business? If so, why did you unvote? We're not in the business to be getting null reads, bear. And your scum read in based on a slight rumbling in your stomach? Dear friend Winnie the Pooh, this is unacceptable! I had more town reads than this when I looked at the playerlist!

Tvella looks scummy for the "slight scummish" read on popular scum pick Darla, followed by an immediate vote. Why Darla over someone who you find scummier?

Next set of scum reads

tvellalott- Lazy Darla hop sucks.

Did you actually read what I posted?; because you're being complete ridiculous. You're completely fabricating things out of nothing. I found Darla's actions noteworthy and posted accordingly. In fact, we see here:

Also to Darla, what is "contradicting" about any of my play so far? What have I changed without properly explaining? More so, what had changed at the point that you made that post (Page 10) where I had, what, two posts?

...you asking the same question as me here:

Seriously though, hopping onto another bandwagon based on 'contradicting play', which you could now be accused of?
Lol.

You didn't think she warranted a vote, I did.

Perhaps you're basing your suspicions on the third-vote is scum tell?

LAWL.

Remember children,

lurking =/= scum.

"completely ridiculous" and "fabricating things out of nothing" are not the types of words I would use when accused of lazy bandwagon hopping, especially when it's apparent you didn't put much thought into these suspicions in the first place. You also refuse to take accusations seriously despite overreacting to them, which is an occurrence that I don't see occurring in my mind. But more than that... No one accused you of lurking, bear! And yet you defend against the accusation once again! Why defend against something that hasn't been brought up against you bear? It doesn't make sense, and I liked it more when things make sense

Flavor talks sucks. The Simpsons series is about flawed characters. Homer abuses his kid for god's sake >.>

[Hiraki]

As I said before, Hiraki was my #2 scum read. Main reason at this point is that 2 of his "____ needs to die" reads have now seemingly become neutral reads as there is no steam on their wagons (DH and tvella).

If you haven't noticed, "_____ needs to die" is the equivalent of "You are scum. Now die." There is no difference. People change minds. I'm a bit busy with a report, so this is all I have the time to say. I'll be good with Friday though, so get ready for that.

[KageLord]

As I said before, Hiraki was my #2 scum read. Main reason at this point is that 2 of his "____ needs to die" reads have now seemingly become neutral reads as there is no steam on their wagons (DH and tvella).

If you haven't noticed, "_____ needs to die" is the equivalent of "You are scum. Now die." There is no difference. People change minds. I'm a bit busy with a report, so this is all I have the time to say. I'll be good with Friday though, so get ready for that.

I understand that reads change, but "You are scum. Now die." isn't a read that should be taken lightly. I might have one of those reads in any given game and I damn well will see it through to lynch (or NK, if it happens that way). Essentially you are saying that you are 100% sure someone is scum and want them lynched. Then you end up saying later that they aren't scum and someone else is 100% sure scum. Then they aren't either.

But, it's not the greatest reasoning as to why someone is scum, which is why my vote isn't on you. It could almost just as easily be unsure town that likes to pretend to be sure or town that never trusts themselves. Somewhat anti-town either way, but not necessarily scum (still a good possibility of scum as well, which is still why you're #2 for me).

[diddin]

Boberz, again, what gives you the impression that Tragedy plays for survival regardless of alignment?

I have done this already. Tragedy has no incentive to deliberately look to want to survive. Tragedy is clearly attempting to appear this way (the shameless OMGUS for example) therefore I conclude that tragedy wants to look like somebody who is a survivalist. Therefore tragedy must have survivalist tendancies. Do not ask again, it is distracting and pointless.

---

On the Darla stuff. A few things:

Firstly that wagon cleared so quickly that if Darla is scum then I am betting that somebody who came off the wagon is bussing scum looking for an excuse to jump off it.

Secondly I do not think it should be treated as a pre L-1 vote, I believe Darla thought it was L-1 and his lack of awareness ingame is evidence to support this theory.

Thirdly Groundskeeper Willy is 'bad' in several episodes (if I remember correctly, my simpsons is a bit rusty) and certainly does not fit what I would imagine as a VT in this game.

Fourthly, for those of us not enlightened, what is so town like about DBE according to those fleeing his wagon?

Emergency V/LA - Some issues have been brewing for the last month and come to a head today that have resulted in me having stacks of paperwork to do, as well as having to explore legal options and am stressed to hell with the situation.

Will reply to Sotty quickly though.

Sotty, yes I have played DTM before, but without going looking through past games I do not actually have a meta on him.. Sorry, but I just don't remember everything people have done in past games that I have played with as town or scum. So if your asking do I have meta on DTM, no sorry I don't...just because I have played before with them does not mean I have a meta read.. especially with it being two people on the account also and not only DTM..

the only people in this game I actually have any sort of Meta on is yourself and Zach as I have played you both so much. I still do say you are town

Anyway, I do agree on Darla. I have had my say on her and my reasons are clear.

unvote
vote: Darla

^proof the Darla wagon is stinking of scum.

Boberz's wagonvote based on Meta is awful. Jason's is an obvsheep. I'm ok with a lynch on either of them.

[Nachomamma8]

You know, I can get pretty damn annoying with a working computer and a quote button.

Do not ignore me.

[Wraith]

I do have to say that I agree that Groundskeeper Willy is not a believable VT claim. In fact, when I first started this game the very first thing I thought was "Willy will be evil."

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I can't help the way the mod casted the roles yo. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if Bart or Lisa were the scum roles. The less obvious would be more obvious. The closer we are to danger the farther we are from harm. etc etc. take your pick.

I am what I am regardless, can't change that. Believe it or don't.