[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[drmyshottyizsik]

Shotty's Simple 6P Nightless

4 Townies

1 Godfather
1 Goon

If the godfather's power only kicks in Day 1 then this is balanced but in that case this set up is essentially a more dull and bigger vengeful. Providing that the GF is just Day 1 then this isn't a bad set up.

Ok Godfather only is on day 1. That would make it fun.

Shotty's Restless 5P

4 Restless Townies
1 Goon

Not Mafia

Informed minority? Yes
Uniformed majority? Yes
It's mafia.
[quote="Empking]

Shotty's Restless 7P

1 Restless Cop
4 Restless townies

2 Goons

I'm not sure of the balance but I doubt Restless is that powerful of a role to make up for the classical power of this set up.[/quote][/quote]
The restless cop is very useful. The cop may get info the night he is killed so his role is pretty powerful.

[drmyshottyizsik]

there would only be a max of 1 and then at that point the game would be in lylo.

Not quite sure I get what you're saying but what about no lynches?
If there was 1 mafia left and 1 VT left, and one restless spirit lurking then it would be lylo.
If a no lynch happens then there is no restless spirit the next day.

Also the Godfather in my nightless does nothing special, but if he is lynched then the mafia insta loose

I got that, just wasn't sure if it only counted if the Godfather was lynched on day 1 or on any day, but you seem to be saying on any day.

Only day 1

[Crazy]

The idea was that cult would have a night kill, I was undecided on whether it would or wouldn't and forgot to put it in. I think night start is a much better idea than what I had though which means night kill should probably be cut out as it would take much larger numbers to balance.

Flays numbers seem to work, so it'd be:

1 Love Cult Leader
15 Vanilla Townies

Night start
3 town lynches = town lose/cult win, 1 cult lynch = town win/cult lose
Cult must recruit each night, if no choice is sent there will be a random choice
There must be a lynch each day, if no majority is reached before deadline then the player with the most votes (and who reached that position first in the event of ties) is lynched

I'd suggest a trial run with Crazy's 1:9 or 1:8 2-lynch number first, might spot any glaring brokenness w/o involving 16 players. Sounds interesting, though... I agree that Mandatory Lynches is probably a good idea, but what do you do if nobody is voting anyone?

I'd just make the town repeatedly stab themselves until they all die. Unfortunately, Empking's suggestion of giving the scum a free NK actually helps the town... that's one less decoy for them.

If a 2-lynch variant is run, I think 1:9 is better than 1:8. EV in 1:9 slightly favors scum while EV in 1:8 slightly favors town.

[brokenscraps]

Unfortunately, Empking's suggestion of giving the scum a free NK actually helps the town... that's one less decoy for them.

Make it count as a lynch and it results in a guaranteed mislynch, the strategy becomes pointless.

[Mr. Flay]

Or just call the WC "three dead townies"; don't have to mess with the definition of lynch then.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Shotty's 14P Newbie

Cop	Doc	RB	Set up
1	1	1	1 Cop, 1 doctor, 9 townies, 1 RoleBlocker, 2 goons
1	0	1	1 Cop, 10 townies, 1 RoleBlocker, 2 goons
0	1	1	1 doctor, 10 townies, 1 RoleBlocker, 2 goons
1	0	0	1 Cop, 10 townies, 3 goons
0	1	0	1 Doctor, 10 townies, 3 goons
0	0	0	11 townies, 3 goons
1	0	0	11 townies, 2 goons, 1 Roleblocker

[gandalf5166]

But...... not all of those setups are balanced.

[Ythan]

That's why it's called Shotty's Newbie.

[drmyshottyizsik]

how is it unblalanced?

[Empking]

how is it unblalanced?

Is that a serious question?

(Actually, thinking about it I don't actually think there's a single balanced set up among those choices.)

[drmyshottyizsik]

Explain

[Empking]

Everyone of those set ups is scum favoured. Other than the first one (which is unbalanced due to the introduction of the Roleblocker) none of those games should have three scum.

[drmyshottyizsik]

The mafia have to force 3 mislynches... actually 4 would be apt since there are 3 mafia... hmmmmmmmm... hold up

[bv310]

Shotty, RUN ONE GAME. You will learn what a balanced setup is.

Also, this isn't the thread to try and push a new Newbie setup. This is the place to talk about Open Games, that are going to be run in the Open Game Queue. As for the setups proper, most Newbies have a difficult time keeping up in the 9P setups that we use currently. Adding 5 more players will just confuse most of them into leaving.

[Empking]

Empking's Jester

2 Mafia

1 Jester

1 Vig
1 Doc
3 Townies

[Crazy]

Ugh, Jesters. I'm not sure it's ever possible for them to work without some crazy variant.

I think the biggest problem is that they usually make it impossible for the town to lynch somebody without either needing the mafia's vote or the Jester's. Which means someone will have to do something against their win condition - either the Jester helps the scum win, the Jester helps the town win, or the Mafia help the Jester win.

It won't happen every game, but I think it will happen frequently enough that it's not worth it.

[Crazy]

Sanity Check

2 Mafia Goons
1 Cop (either Sane or Insane)
1 Cop (either Naive or Paranoid)

5

3 Vanilla Townies

Both Cops get the same Role PM. Sanity is revealed upon death.

[brokenscraps]

If the mafia go cop hunting it seems off that they'd be rewarded for killing the sane/insane cop while punished for killing the naive/paranoid cop when both would presumably play similarly.

[drmyshottyizsik]

As I Lay Dying Mafia

1 Cop or Seer
1 Vig
8 Doctors

2 Werewolves

2 Mafia Goons

[Herodotus]

Why?

[drmyshottyizsik]

why what?

[Herodotus]

What's the idea behind the setup?

(I can see some problems with it -- first, it randomly screws either the wolves or the mafia. Second, it looks possibly vulnerable to the strategy of: cop/seer claims D1 and NoLynch for several days in a row. Or cop doesn't claim; but either way there's a high probability of No Kill for a long time, especially at the beginning, which suggests No Lynches would let the cop/seer get some results before the first lynch. Third, you have the issue of cross-protection inherent in multi-doc setups. Some of these problems could be solved by declaring that the doctors can only protect from kills made by whichever faction can't be detected by the cop/seer.)

But even if those weren't issues, what sells the setup?

It's not just that one. I feel like this whole thread is full of setups that people have proposed for no apparent reason.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Well this one was inspired by mayo clinic

[Antihero]

Well this one was inspired by mayo clinic

Do you think mayo clinic has some kind of design flaw in it that needs to be fixed?

Empking's Jester

2 Mafia

1 Jester

1 Vig
1 Doc
3 Townies

Jesters = ultimate suckage

[Ythan]

Do they explicitly end/not end the game in that setup?