Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[DavidParker]

How's this for defense:

Unvote, Vote: PoisonIvy

inb4bussingmybuddy

[LimMePls]

Mod, could we get a prod on Fuzzy, Sathrois, and Ivy, please?

Things that are bolded are people I want to hear from. I'd like a new post from Sathrois, Ivy, Fuzzy, and BotS. I'd like Sathrois, Ghost, jmj, bvoigt, Fuzzy, XScorp, LynchMePls, and BotS to justify their votes (or lack thereof) at this point. Most of these people voted once during the beginning of the game and haven't moved it. Ivy's vote in particular is kind of a sketchy one because it appears she began the game by voting Lowell on an RVS basis, but has apparently decided to park it there in spite of being arguably the number one topic of the game's discussion so far.

Poison Ivy is scum. Why exactly do I have to justify my vote anyways? Because I made it a long time ago? You yourself said the game is slow. Nothing has changed my opinion on who should be lynched.

[LimMePls]

llamafluff, i agree with the sentiment, but what are your reasons for suspecting those players, gonnano specifically?

"I agree with you, but I have no idea why you suspect them, so why is that?"

Scum.

qft.

i honestly dont see why furcolow hasnt been lynched yet. iyam he is so obvscum it isnt even funny.

He honestly isn't.

Unless he's improved out of sight he is playing his town meat.

Please describe his town and scum metas (as you see them) and why you feel this game is the town and not scum. Bonus points for links to games you feel particularly back up your opinion.

[Sathoris]

I'm sorry for my absence. I forgot to notify that I was a bit busy over the week. I'm also finding it a bit hard to break into this game. I'm not used to 3 week day phases, but I'll just have to try harder.

Expect a post explaining my (new) vote when I'm caught up.

[InflatablePie]

@LynchMe: Rivertown was a game I just finished with furc and he reads pretty much the same in here. I admit I haven't seen his scum meta, though.

I know that was directed at Thad, but I feel the need to chime in since I have a leaning-town-read on furc, and Thad was in that game as well.

[smargaret]

I'm still waiting for GW to post anything game related (except flavor information; that was just scummy. Lectures on flavor are helpful only when flavor is actually an issue, which it really wasn't and isn't. You were just trying to look like you were contributing).

Has Fuzzyman posted yet?

I don't like Ivy's "defense," which is to say, the way she laid down in front of the wagon.

BotS: Vote does not necessarily equal lynch. I would like there to be a certain amount of pressure on Ivy, and I thought at the point I voted for GW that the pressure on her was adequate for the situation. I saw how she reacted to the wagon. I'd like there to be a little more pressure on her at the moment, because I'm not sure whether her reaction was frustrated town or scum. However, GW has actually done things I see to be definitively scummy, so he gets my vote. Also, I was answering a question about how I felt about the Ivy wagon at that point in time - not pushing to restart the wagon. There's a difference, and implying that there isn't is misrep.

[gonnano]

I feel like your Lowell vote is already kind of lame to begin with (I can think of at least 5 better candidates as I did in my previous post). This sentence in particular makes me feel weird about you. I don't like that you're justifing, even partially, your vote on the basis of how much information it gives you about Ghost. That comment just feels kind of forced in there, like you don't really mean it.

I think several people have the same opinion of my vote on Lowell, which is a shame because IMO he's the player who's put the most effort into not being noticed. I think that what I said about information about GW was true, but it was mostly just an attempt to get people who are thinking of everything in terms of GW to take a serious look at Lowell. Apparently, it didn't work.

Its that you really pushed on PI for being very scummy, vet didnt vote for her.

That's not true. I did vote for PI, but I unvoted later, which drew some flak from some other players. What I see here is you piggybacking on someone else's argument, but unfortunately all you could remember was that there was something about PI that people were accusing me of a few pages back. Since you're not worried about actually catching scum, you didn't bother to check the facts before posting.

You continually just taked about how you dont trust yourself to make right reads, but she is really scummy. All that occured while the wagon was getting built up all around her. When it quieted down, you moved on to other people, apparently all happy with your reads to the extent that you would vote.

I do trust my reads, but I'm not so ignorant that I trust them in spite of new evidence that discredits them. Again, maybe if you had actually read what I wrote you would understand the situation a little better.

Unless you have positively identified his VI play as specifically scum VI play, you are completely wrong. Saying "increasingly scummy" suggests his behavior has more scum motivation than before. But that's not what you said before. You are backpedaling.

Really? Are you really arguing that I don't know what connotation I associate with the term "becoming increasingly scummy"? When I originally said it, I thought it was obvious that I didn't yet consider Furcolow scum (hence no vote), but that he was heading that way quickly. I found that wasn't the case when I saw that some people had interpreted it differently, but I really can't see why this is still an issue after I explained it once.

You also say he is exploiting his anti-town meta; can you provide an example of where he does this?

I wasn't referring to a specific incident, I was referring to all the anti-town things that Furcolow has done -- some of which I've pointed out in previous posts. Basically, I was trying to say that even if his meta is to act anti-town, he'll still act more anti-town when he's scum than when he's town.

You like pressure wagons but you don't like to participate on them?

Not when the wagon is just as sketchy as the person being voted.

[bvoigt]

Mod, could we get a prod on Fuzzy, Sathrois, and Ivy, please?

Things that are bolded are people I want to hear from. I'd like a new post from Sathrois, Ivy, Fuzzy, and BotS. I'd like Sathrois, Ghost, jmj, bvoigt, Fuzzy, XScorp, LynchMePls, and BotS to justify their votes (or lack thereof) at this point. Most of these people voted once during the beginning of the game and haven't moved it. Ivy's vote in particular is kind of a sketchy one because it appears she began the game by voting Lowell on an RVS basis, but has apparently decided to park it there in spite of being arguably the number one topic of the game's discussion so far.

Poison Ivy is scum. Why exactly do I have to justify my vote anyways? Because I made it a long time ago? You yourself said the game is slow. Nothing has changed my opinion on who should be lynched.

This. I'd consider switching to gonnano, but my hunch is that PI is a godfather, so....

[LimMePls]

@LynchMe: Rivertown was a game I just finished with furc and he reads pretty much the same in here. I admit I haven't seen his scum meta, though.

I know that was directed at Thad, but I feel the need to chime in since I have a leaning-town-read on furc, and Thad was in that game as well.

A meta read from a sample size of 1 is less than worthless. For 1, you have no idea if that is how he behaves ONLY when town/scum, and for another, people have anomalies in their play. Just because Furc actedthis way in a game you saw him in, and he was town in that game does NOT mean that whenever he acts that way he is town.

Also, as you point out in your response, this question is directed at ThAd, and your eagerness to jump in and defend his premise (with terrible logic to boot) is noted.

[InflatablePie]

@LynchMe: Rivertown was a game I just finished with furc and he reads pretty much the same in here. I admit I haven't seen his scum meta, though.

I know that was directed at Thad, but I feel the need to chime in since I have a leaning-town-read on furc, and Thad was in that game as well.

A meta read from a sample size of 1 is less than worthless. For 1, you have no idea if that is how he behaves ONLY when town/scum, and for another, people have anomalies in their play. Just because Furc actedthis way in a game you saw him in, and he was town in that game does NOT mean that whenever he acts that way he is town.

Also, as you point out in your response, this question is directed at ThAd, and your eagerness to jump in and defend his premise (with terrible logic to boot) is noted.

You have a point. As for your "note", I understand where you're coming from, but I was posting this as my defense of why I think furc is town (even if it fails logically), not for Thad. He can post his own defense if he wants. Your question just reminded me of my read on furc and I decided to try and justify it. Might as well justify my own reads... or would you rather have me not provide any reasoning for my reads?

[RedCoyote]

Look, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying Ivy is a bad lynch. I think you'd be foolish to write Ivy off as an acceptable lynch right now based on her performance. She's made far too many potential slip-ups. I'm just saying I generally don't like it when people vote one person and never move it.

In this case, however, it's somewhat justified. I still don't think you should just coast on the vote though, because, honestly, the only suspect I know from LynchMePls and XScorp, for instance, is Ivy. At the very least I can say that Ivy has been talking about a great variety of people. When you don't move your vote, you tend to get pigeonholed like that, at least in my eyes.

Then again, Ivy hasn't moved her vote either it seems.

...eh, you know, I don't know why I'm bothering. She's not even here defending herself. This really isn't a bad D1 lynch.

Unvote

;

vote: PoisonIvy

(8 of 13)

[ThAdmiral]

Please describe his town and scum metas (as you see them) and why you feel this game is the town and not scum. Bonus points for links to games you feel particularly back up your opinion.

If I could describe the the difference between his scum and town play in one word it would be "proactive".
As town he seems to be more active, seems to more actively participate in scum hunting and questioning, has larger posts and generally seems to be more involved in the game. He also is more likely to claim that someone is town in his eyes.
As scum his posts are shorter, he seems to throw out a lot more one liners that don't really push things forward but rather comment mildly on what is going on, he generally goes after softer targets, like inactives, or pursues weak cases that he doesn't bother explaining all that well. He also is more likely to claim someone is scum in his eyes.

Reference games

town:
Fenzy Mafia
Rivertown Mafia
Lies of Locke Lamora

mafia:
Ohne Mafia
Whoniverse Jungle Republic

(there are probably better scum examples as he got lynched day 1 in both of these - maybe ask furculow for some games)

[Furcolow]

Name claim is awful and only helps scum as others have mentioned.

LMP is participating more unprovoked. I find that the pop-in when mentioned after a few days of no activity is a good scum-tell as it shows that someone is monitoring the thread but not participating. That is much more interesting/scummy than just lurking. But usually scum go back into hiding, especially since nobody agreed with me it would have been a great opportunity to do that. Back to rat.

Unvote
Vote: pappums rat

I'm gonna be honest here, and say that's somewhat similar to my play at the moment. I am keeping tabs and up to date on things, but unless something goes completely by unnoticed or commented on, I will keep posting my opinions but haven't become actively engaged in scum hunting as of yet anyways. I think day 1 wagons and the day 1 lynch will typically be on someone rather randomly who gets bandwagoned for a slight slip-up or post-style/play-style issue anyways.

Very informative post. I was really null on you up until this point, congrats.

[Furcolow]

llamafluff, i agree with the sentiment, but what are your reasons for suspecting those players, gonnano specifically?

"I agree with you, but I have no idea why you suspect them, so why is that?"

Scum.

qft.

i honestly dont see why furcolow hasnt been lynched yet. iyam he is so obvscum it isnt even funny.

Possibly because any good player realizes I AM VERY EASY TO READ, because I only scumhunt as town. I find it very, very difficult to fake scumhunting when I know who the scum are. How can I wagon someone I know is innocent? It's just unnatural to me.

[Furcolow]

Backpedaling already? In the quote above you make it quite obvious that there is a clear distinction between PoisonIvy being "scummy", but Furcolow only being "anti-town". But before, you said nothing of the sort. HUGE difference. In fact, before you said clearly that Furcolow was becoming increasingly scummy. Nowhere in your observations of Furcolow did you say "anti-town" and your explanation that you cited only came after you were called out for it. If the PoisonIvy lynch falls through you will eat rope. If PoisonIvy does go through; you eat rope tomorrow.

"becoming increasingly scummy" is not the same as "Furcolow is scum". I am of the opinion that if someone does enough anti-town stuff, it contributes somewhat to the possibility of them being scum. Furcolow may tend to be anti-town regardless of alignment, but I think it's reasonable to say that as scum a player would exploit their meta to get by with as much anti-town behavior as possible. Hence me counting Furcolow's staggering amount of anti-town statements against him as points toward scumminess.
To recap: becoming and being are two different things.

Unless you have positively identified his VI play as specifically scum VI play, you are completely wrong. Saying "increasingly scummy" suggests his behavior has more scum motivation than before. But that's not what you said before. You are backpedaling.

You also say he is exploiting his anti-town meta; can you provide an example of where he does this?
[/quote]

He can't, because I have yet to do that. It's really, really hard for me to fake it.

[Furcolow]

@mod plz fix quote tags. Thanks.

For scum games, also add mini 1000, mafia holographica (my most recent one as scum), and some roman themed game where I was scum with TheButtonMan and the game lasted like 17 pages (in which I lost)

My scum meta is way more non-compliant, lurking, and uncontributing

I am going to say if I had to pick someone who I want lynched it would be smargaret. I feel like she has been pushing in way too many directions,

I disagree with you Ad, on where I'd say "this person might be town" when I'm town or "this person is scum" when I am scum. I do both regardless of alignment. I am actually a bit more cautious as town on slipping up than as scum. As scum I am sort of overly confident, lurking, and just assume people will believe I am town.

As town, I am really nervous to get mislynched, so I try to contribute. Trying to contribute ends up in looking like the contribution is forced, which reads as anti-town or scummy to some people through misinterpretation or misrepresentation, when in fact it is just the fact that I am going out of my way to comment to try to avoid any misunderstandings or misgivings at all, whatsoever.

hope that clarifies things. Thanks for the defense, ad. If I need a lawyer, I know where to turn. lol

[smargaret]

Pot, kettle.

[LimMePls]

Thanks ThAd. I'll check those games out.

(there are probably better scum examples as he got lynched day 1 in both of these - maybe ask furculow for some games)

Asking him for those games wouldn't justify YOUR meta read of him.

[LimMePls]

llamafluff, i agree with the sentiment, but what are your reasons for suspecting those players, gonnano specifically?

"I agree with you, but I have no idea why you suspect them, so why is that?"

Scum.

qft.

i honestly dont see why furcolow hasnt been lynched yet. iyam he is so obvscum it isnt even funny.

Possibly because any good player realizes I AM VERY EASY TO READ, because I only scumhunt as town. I find it very, very difficult to fake scumhunting when I know who the scum are. How can I wagon someone I know is innocent? It's just unnatural to me.

The fact that you know this and acknowledge it makes it worthless.

[Sotty7]

Day I, Vote Count VII

PoisonIvy - 6 -

XScorpion, bvoigt, LynchMePls, Beasts of the Sea, DavidParker, RedCoyote

bvoigt - 1 -

Stephoscope

Furcolow - 2 -

Sathoris, pappums rat

EGL - 1 -

Fuzzyman

ThAdmiral - 2 -

nachomma8, EGL

XScorpion - 1 -

PoisonIvy

GhostWriter - 3 -

ThAdmiral, Lowell, InflatablePie

pappums rat - 3 -

LlamaFluff, smargaret, Scott Brosius

Lowell - 1 -

gonnano

InflatablePie - 1 -

Artem

gonnano - 1 -

Furcolow

Not Voting - 2 -

Ghostwriter, jmj3000

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

PoisonIvy and Fuzzyman have been prodded. If you think anyone else is due for a prod, let me know and I'll get on it.

[RedCoyote]

Thank you, Sotty! <3

Also, SNOW DAY!!! My heart goes out to you have have to be outside in extra cold weather, but down here in Texas when we get one inch of snow everything closes.

So now the university is closed for the day and I have nothing to do all day except stay warm. I think I'll break into that Rocky Blu-ray collection I got for Christmas...

[InflatablePie]

@Mod: I'd like a prod of jmj please. Over three days since the last post.

@jmj: why so no-vote?

After reading PI's last few posts in ISO, she gives off a calm and collected vibe despite being under pressure, as well as some acceptance of being lynched, which in my (little) experience is usually a towntell. I'm abstaining from that wagon for now.

FoS DavidParker

for slapping that vote on there (I could also FoS RC, but pretty much everything else he's done gives me townreads, so).

[jmj3000]

No vote because I am re-reading, then reading everyone in iso. Give me some time.

[DavidParker]

No vote because I am re-reading, then

reading everyone in iso.

Give me some time.

LOLWOT.

Unvote, Vote: JMJ3000

[Scott Brosius]

The fact that you know this and acknowledge it makes it worthless.

This. There is too much meta talk going around and being used as the basis for cases.

PoisonIvy going MIA when pressure is put on her is scummy, but I'm not going to push her closer to lynch when she's not even around. Still like my rat vote.