Which runs down suspicions of players and tacks on a vote on Baby Spice, which Sotty points out here.Feysal wrote:I'm behind again by a page or so, and there are some things since my last post I probably should reply to when I have time. Right now, my ISO reads on El Goosuki, MoI and kunkstar7 are long overdue, so writing those now.
El Goosuki
It appears the case on them can be summed up as: lazy scum. There is some semblance of scum hunting, including reads on players, but absolutely no argumentation that would make these reads useful. I think it was xvart that pointed out this was typical of DGB. Then they were asking for a summary of what is going on, directed at LB. If we had a flip of LB that might tell us something, but meanwhile, it is odd that they would ask for a summary when they could easily get the information from fellow cultists if they were cult. So, definitely lazy, but are they cult? I've heard people say that at least one of them tends to lurk as anti-town, but that is not really conclusive.
Today we've got a stupid night action, all the more incredible since we'd have to believe that none of the three bothered to try to understand the rules. One of them had commented on hitogoroshi's guide too, so they should have known better. Problem is, cult friends should have been able to advise them on what to claim, so again this is not conclusive. Other than that, we've got more of the same from yesterday.
This much has been mentioned by others. The only new thing I found during my ISO read was an odd flip with first considering RC town, then suspecting him, then announcing he was town again. Relevant posts are 590, 1047 and 1050. In 590, they gave RC a town read. In 1047 they imply they could vote RC, meaning they find him suspicious. And less than half an hour later in 1050, they declare RC as town, and stick to that ever since. All three posts were by DGB from what I can tell, so this is not a problem with conflicting opinions within hydra. I would like to see these changing opinions on RC properly explained.
Then we've got this latest attack on Nicodemus. Sure his posts are few, but I for one haven't gotten such a scummy feel from their content. Yesterday RC tried to use Bowser as a distraction, the same slot Nicodemus replaced into. We've also got El Goosuki drawing attention to their laziness... just like RC did. It looks like this wagon could get interesting, and bears watching.
MagnaofIllusion
I had a scummy opinion of him based on recent posts, many of them by players other than MoI himself. I guess that speaks for itself, and the feel I got after a reread of his posts was quite different. There was some early focus on Furcolow, followed by AV and RC. At least the RC vote cannot be called opportunistic, he had indeed voiced his suspicions of him earlier in the day. His ISO analysis of RC looks genuine, and he commented that there could be confirmation bias involved. I guess that could be interpreted as giving himself an out in case RC flips town, but after reading RC's posts myself I agreed with MoI's view of him.
The case on MoI really started yesterday from VasudeVa's attack on him. In fairness I can only call MoI abrasive from that point onward. He was harsh in how he blew off VasudeVa's attack and Furcolow's support attempt. But I can't say I would not understand, I tend to be more annoyed with pointless accusations than with reasonable ones, and the way Furcolow used statistics to justify his vote was appalling. I also thought that VasudeVa's initial case was weak when I read it.
Today the abrasiveness somehow became a real issue, and I honestly don't follow why. It looks like much of this case is based on gut feelings, maybe I don't get it since I don't have the experience with MoI many of you seem to have. The one thing today I find genuinely strange is MoI's claim to be purposely trying to lower his NK threshold. I can sort of see it making sense if you have a power role, but in this game... it increases your chances of being lynched, while discouraging anyone from trying to protect you, thus making it more likely you'd be killed.
My read on MoI is mostly neutral, leaning scummy. This is the sort of case I'd vote to secure a lynch at deadline, at this point in the day I'd prefer to find something better.
kunkstar7
Simply put, the case Wickedestjr made on him looks accurate. He has been lurking recently, he was focused on Furcolow. He also commented on the Fate/Benmage situation. So far so good... these were popular topics that day. But in addition to this, there is not much interaction with other players or attempts to find scum, mostly just theory discussion. The RC vote also looks bad, when you consider he'd only mentioned RC twice before that, from what I can see. Then we come to El Goosuki. However weak the stated reason for suspecting them was, El Goosuki has been rather useless, and their latest move does make them interesting.
So, guilty of lurking? Yes. Guilty of being cult? Perhaps. The RC vote is the worst of it, it does look opportunistic. My personal top suspect is still Baby Spice though, for her actions yesterday - time has passed since then, but the original reasons for finding her scummy are still there. What I've heard from her since has done little to improve my read of her, and I feel she has been conveniently forgotten with new wagons turning up.
Vote: Baby Spice
Will keep an eye on how the El Goosuki and kunkstar7 situations develop, at the moment I find them both more suspicious than MoI.
Which was followed up on here by Sotty after a response from Feysal. (Response is in this quote, I think post 2400.)Trilobite wrote:Because as cult there would have been planning over night actions and such a useless action would have been thrown out the window. Basically why does a dumb moveSeacore Post 2259 wrote:Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy, when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?haveto be scum motivated? I don't see it.
Or what Triglav said in post 2276
True, we have called kunk scummy and he would be the only wagon we'd be willing to switch to. Kunk pressuring Babyspice to give scum reads is pretty funny considering his play so far. His day one play in particular was horrid.Wickedestjr Post 2279 wrote:Trilobite, MoI has acted suspiciously, but at least he has made some attempt throughout the game to scumhunt. The same can't be said of kunkstar7.
Right now however, MoI is our number one scum pick and leading the vote count. We won't be switching.
Feysal:You did a nice little run down of each of the top wagons in that post, but why didn't you do the same thing for Babyspice at the end of the post? That vote just feels horribly tacked on.
~Sotty
It's compelling because Feysal himself has said he won't vote without a solid case. In this exchange Sotty pointed out Feysal CONTRADICTING HIS OWN PLAY. It is striking to us because for that type of player with that type of claim, the only kind of situation where that vote makes sense is where Feysal was bussing Baby Spice and knew she would flip scum. (And thus had no need to make a case because the vote was pretty safe in that regard.)Trilobite wrote:What about Feysal, who for the record has only voted twice. Once each day (RC and Babyspice)Triglav Post 2366 wrote:Dislike Andrius and (shock) Baby Spice for lack of vote record.
The vote itself isn't a bad one. I had a town read on Babyspice yesterday because of a few things she said. Today however, she has been less than impressive and that read is being washed away.Feysal Post 2400 wrote:Why, something wrong with it? I researched the top wagons, and after I finished, I found I had lost confidence in those cases, particularly the one on MoI. I thought of an alternative, and voted Baby Spice. Or perhaps you wanted a more thorough explanation of the case on her? Here it is, I just did another ISO read.Trilobite #2336 wrote:For someone that is so careful with his vote Feysal's explanation for his Babyspice vote looks really bad. He is really climbing the scum list with this.
But it stuck out to me because it goes against how you have said you vote.
Feysal Post 504 wrote:To me, it looks like hitogoroshi is just being cautious, preferring to have discussion before committing to any plan or course of action. I'm all for that, that is how I (try to) play myself. I get what you mean, but I don't think it's anything to be concerned about. I tend to sit on the fence myself, and vote when I have something more solid to act on, or my vote is needed to secure a lynch at deadline. In my first game ever, I led the town into four consecutive mislynches. That was a hard lesson, but it was a lesson learned.Feysal Post 844 wrote:All this said, I'll continue to reserve my vote. I have many other players to look at, and someone might be more deserving of lynch than any of the three above. For now, xvart looks dodgiest.These statements do not coincide with your Babyspice vote. You did a some what intense run down of all the top suspects of the day that ended with you voting for Babyspice when you presented no case.Feysal Post 1220 wrote:No reason related to game rules. Vote hopping is just not my style. I prefer to vote when I have a more solid case to act on, or if my vote is needed to secure a lynch at deadline. That said, the case on ReaperCharlie put together by Seacore and MoI looks compelling, but I'd still like to read his posts in ISO before placing my vote.
The first sentence is about kunk but you then go on to say that Babyspice was your personal top suspect, so why did you not include a detailed run down of her? It makes no sense and like I said the vote was horribly tacked on.Feysa Post 2304l wrote:So, guilty of lurking? Yes. Guilty of being cult? Perhaps. The RC vote is the worst of it, it does look opportunistic. My personal top suspect is still Baby Spice though, for her actions yesterday - time has passed since then, but the original reasons for finding her scummy are still there. What I've heard from her since has done little to improve my read of her, and I feel she has been conveniently forgotten with new wagons turning up.
Vote: Baby Spice
Will keep an eye on how the El Goosuki and kunkstar7 situations develop, at the moment I find them both more suspicious than MoI.
So, considering your own stated and displayed behavior in regards to votes, your vote of Babyspice sticks out like a sore thumb. It's a major red flag for me. The case isn't a bad one, but your motives look to be suspect to me.
= = = = =
I fell behind since my last post, but I'm back up to date now. As for the grave robbing plan I would be in agreement, but I don't think we can trust furc not to change his mind. It makes me leery of including him in the plan.
~Sotty
Yet you vote us.Benmage wrote:Triglav, kunkstar is 100% cult I don't want him to have another night of mischief. Nor do I want him being cult ressed and delaying us further.
You're not near the noose yet so you still have time to confirm yourself through killing.
Ressing someone whose been on previous stalk lists, who has suicide. MAKES NO SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE... Your dance excuse is malarkey. After I also specifically tell Nacho to stalk him and get the OKAY from Seacore!!! YOU are 100% CULT. 100% Cult KUNK can be dealt with by Triglav. All wins in my book. You die. The cult are fumbling this one!Trilobite wrote:Yet you vote us.Benmage wrote:Triglav, kunkstar is 100% cult I don't want him to have another night of mischief. Nor do I want him being cult ressed and delaying us further.
You're not near the noose yet so you still have time to confirm yourself through killing.
Because that's so much smarter, right?
