Mafia of the Chosen Ones (Game Over!)

[Magua]

But when he *does* try to use it, I'm curious why she doesn't say, "No, you can't grant doctor, you already granted it once, look at your role PM" or similar.

Also, I just saw this in your scum QT, D2:

Kill: Magua

Trust me.

Lulz.

[Nachomamma8]

Magua, I could use orders as many times as I'd like.
I couldn't use the same order more than once per day, though.

[singersigner]

Reading through the dead QT...I don't understand why voting for myself when I assumed there was one more town with me was such a problem...did NO ONE see what my thought process was for that?

[singersigner]

hopefully ss remembers when I told her that town becomes sk-aligned if I die.

I did remember. Nacho quoted it again. But I never forgot it.

I was actually going to blame you if inHim was telling the truth.

[singersigner]

And if I know singer well enough from Ninja Boogaloo she won't make up her mind until there's less than 15% battery left- she's just too worried about making the wrong decision, to the point where she always wants more information despite the extra info not actually being useful 90% of the time.

Oh you know me too well.

I try and block that game from my memory, by the way. XP

[VP Baltar]

GG Nacho. I do think the loophole shouldn't have been there to allow the town to win as well considering everything, but oh well.

I had a lot of fun playing as a seraph, even though we were always behind the 8 ball in terms of faith throughout the game due to the quicklynching. Also, our real mistake was not protecting Jack after giving him the vig. Giving Ray unstoppable was a miscalculation when we thought the town seraphs would not have enough faith to descend at that moment. Had we been able to kill before that happened, we could have power lynched Nacho out of existence. We had pretty much everything go swimmingly until the final day and then had every bit of bad luck possible come all at once.

[Vi]

Look Vi; if you want me in your games bad enough to put Penn Jillette in them you just need to ask me to join them and not just assume I'm going to and create the role especially for me.

All right, all right, you're on my mailing list. <.<
Although I thought you didn't like Large games?

Do I really need to post a link to the Foghorn Leghorn, "That's a joke, son" video?

You usually do...

It has already been beaten into the ground, but yes, it should be painfully evident that I don't like the fact that Town won
1) at all
2) on a whim of the scum
so don't whine to me.
I already got the message; fussing more about it - especially when this was clearly broadcast in the dead thread - makes you look childish at best.

Magua:

Any Holy Orders you attain may be issued once per Day.

This was intentional, actually. In retrospect, I'm not sure what kind of a difference I was going for.

[VP Baltar]

Oh and thanks for modding, Vi. Top-notch job as usual. You are the best.

[Vi]

Thank you, although "top-notch" evidently is something of an exaggeration this time. <.<

[AGar]

Agreed with VPB. Always enjoy the Vi modded games.

[VP Baltar]

Thank you, although "top-notch" evidently is something of an exaggeration this time. <.<

Nah, you're too hard on yourself. Everyone has oversights and that's bound to happen as a game gets more complex.

I'd like to ask you if what your thoughts on the faith distribution were. Do you like the way it played out between the scum and town seraphs?

[Vi]

I'd like to ask you if what your thoughts on the faith distribution were. Do you like the way it played out between the scum and town seraphs?

That actually came up in the Thread du Dead.

One interesting side effect of running a very similar game to MoHO was that everyone already knew that lynching quickly was pro-Town. Thus while the Seraphs' Orders were designed for an attack/counterattack game, it pretty much turned into choosing one game break because that's all there was time for.

I was concerned that it was still too hard on the scum Seraphs. You still didn't get a lot of the Battery Faith compared to the Loyals - and until Day 6 interest didn't play a huge factor - so you were naturally at a disadvantage, especially considering you (arguably) had to prioritize merging the scum teams and joining them. The difference is that the Loyals got their game break out on Day 5; the Fallens, Day 6.5. Until Day 6.5, the Fallens didn't really have much leeway to use "other" Orders, and I didn't like that.

Magua disagreed with an appeal to game balance, since scum are more likely to win in general. If you want to compare how much the two Seraph teams did, just look for the gold and black text in the action summary. As a general rule, the Loyal Seraphs could and did pull random Orders out more or less whenever they felt like it. The Fallens couldn't do that so much.

I personally still think it's an issue. However, the obvious solution - simply get rid of the % difference in Battery Faith - isn't necessarily appealing because
1) it removes the incentive to play quickly, and
2) people actually LIKE the incentive to play quickly
The second obvious solution - start both teams at 200 Faith - gets rid of the D1 quicklynch factor, which admittedly I kind of thought was cool.
So, it's something me and the sparkly one can go over again when putting together the next game.

[Sotty7]

My bitterness over the scum vig has been replaced with confusion over the town win.

Oh and thanks for modding, Vi. Top-notch job as usual. You are the best.

^This

and,

BROS FOR LIFE NACHO <3

^This.

A good if

strange

game.

[Empking]

Vi; Is therre a reason you're ignoring the really obvious solution: simply reducing the % difference in Battery Faith?

[Fate]

What discussion in the dead thread? How are you calling me childish for being upset over a poor modding decision that you AGREE yourself was not favorable?

Y'know, I'm reeeeeeally tempted to just do that.

And I'm also reeeeeeeally going to look like a horrible person when Nacho's plan fails, in spite of the warning I gave.

And I reeeeeeeeally don't think I'm going to care overmuch.

Looks like the last bit of "discussion" I saw in the dead thread, so don't act like it had been hashed out completely that nacho was going to be able to have a joint win.


At the start of day Nacho had a kill, Singer didn't.

That's an endgame situation.

Do you ASK scum, "hey, you just mislynched the last townie, its now 1:1 with you and a VT. You COULD nokill 3 times and have a draw... is that what you want?" NO YOU FUCKIN ENDGAME THE TOWNIE BECAUSE THATS THE NO BRAINER AUTO-WIN CONDITION.

The Town win condition could no longer be achieved BY TOWN at the start of the day. Singer could do NOTHING without Nacho's "mercy win"

Ergo, town loses.

[inHimshallibe]

Totes sorry for not being there for the Nacho-hammer.

I thought Reflector would have been an immensely better choice, but again work picked an unfortunate time to keep me busy.

Thanks for the game, Vi! And the rest! Really enjoyed it.

Yeah, yeah, shoulda woulda coulda voted Nacho immediately after my claim. Meh.

[Magua]

Guess I misread Nacho's role PM. Oops.

The difference was reduced, compared to MoHO -- in MoHO, scum seraphs got 33% of the battery faith, here they got 50%.

My take on the matter is twofold:

1) Scumseraphs get in a position to know who they're giving the orders to and why. Once that's done, there's no guesswork done on their end. If anything, I'd say the scumseraphs should probably start off knowing who the scum are (that is, just remove Soul Harvest and make that the game start state). Informed minority and all that. Townseraphs, on the other hand, have to go by their reads and incomplete information -- look at how they almost granted memetic vig to Fate, for example. Townseraphs should end up using more holy orders, and more randomly, than scumseraphs, IMO, because there's will be less accurate and less coordinated.

2) Quicklynching ended up generating a lot of faith for the townseraphs, but in the manner of quicklynches, they also weren't very accurate -- only Kitoari was on the money.

[Fate]

SO CLOSE.

MY VIG.

MY VIGGGGGGGGGGGGG

[Fate]

I would've vigged a scumbuddy to confirm myself to.

FFFFFFFFFFFF

[Rhinox]

So, it totally sucks I was killed before I was able to make a post. Someday when I'm bored I suppose I should read the rest of this game and the dead thread. I was following along for a little while.

[singersigner]

Totes sorry for not being there for the Nacho-hammer.

I thought Reflector would have been an immensely better choice, but again work picked an unfortunate time to keep me busy.

Thanks for the game, Vi! And the rest! Really enjoyed it.

Yeah, yeah, shoulda woulda coulda voted Nacho immediately after my claim.

Meh.

Oh man, inHim...that was a pretty brilliant play toward the end. I never would've thought of that (go figure ). Seriously, for pulling something like that, you deserve some cookies.

BOLDED: Buh...I know you don't like to hear this, but if you had done that, before Nacho proved that the Scum Seraphs were still alive, I would've been much more inclined to believe it, despite Hito saying the SK should win no matter what.

[vezokpiraka]

I won. YES<3

[singersigner]

I won. YES<3

Now I'm sorry

he

won on a technicality...

Glad to know your spirit's still there, Vezok...

[Zachrulez]

lol, I love the scum complaining about the loophole in the SK wincon when they EXPLOITED a loophole to get their team the mimetic vig.

You don't get to complain about loopholes after that.

[Plum]

Dude, I know I helped my team snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and I'm sorry to all of them and feel horrid about that. But in our thread, when I asked Vi about doing this, the reply was that that a similar use was what that Holy Order for switching powers was

intended

for, so. That was not a loophole; that was an intended option. So hm, yes, I will later look to see give or take how valid the complaint of the loophole is, but I do not intend to dismiss it because I used a Holy Order to my benefit in a way the Moderator clearly intended and almost certainly anticipated.