American Gods Mafia - Game over

[Jahudo]

“The TV’s the altar. I’m what people are sacrificing to.” – I Love Lucy

Nexus is V/LA until Tuesday, March 8.
Llamafluff is V/LA until March 9.

Lynch Vote Count

SGRaaize (6) - OhGodMyLife, Ghostlin, Apokalyptika, animorpherv1, Tasky, Locke Lamora
Ghostlin (6) - werewolf555, Llamafluff, Ythill, Seacore, SGRaaize, AGar
Animorpherv1 (3) – WrathChild, A Gaggle of Geese, vezokpiraka
OhGodMyLife (1) – farside22
Llamafluff (1) – Nexus

Not Voting (1):

Saint

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch.

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Farside22 (9) – OhGodMyLife, animorpherv1, farside22, Seacore, SGRaaize, AGar,
Ythill, Apokalyptika, Locke Lamora
Ythill (7) – Llamafluff, Seacore, animorpherv1, Agar, farside22, SGRaaize, Vezokpiraka
A Gaggle of Geese (7) – Vezokpiraka, WrathChild, Ghostlin, Apokalyptika, AGar, Llamafluff, Locke Lamora
Seacore (6) – Ythill, Seacore, Vezokpiraka, A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize, WrathChild
Llamafluff (5) – Ythill, Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife, animorpherv1, Locke Lamora
Ghostlin (2) – A Gaggle of Geese, Ghostlin
AGar (2) – farside22, WrathChild
OhGodMyLife (1) – OhGodMyLife

Not Voting (15):

A Gaggle of Geese x1, Nexus x3, werewolf555 3x, Tasky x3, Saint x3, Apokalyptika x1, Ghostlin x1

Today's deadline is March 19 at 6:00 PM EST

@Mod: is there some reason you didn't prod werewolf?

It had been 48 hours so I would have, but I overlooked him.

[Saint]

support: agar, farside

[Saint]

OhGodMyLife is tunneling, and trying to set up chain lynches, while not actually scumhunting whatsoever
Even though there are some wall posts I need to take the time to read *looks at Ghostlin*, I doubt they will make me change my vote. I would be happy voting SGR, but I like this wagon more:

vote: OGML

[Saint]

Disclaimer:

-cut-

@OGML:

You intrigue me because you've dropped a few towntells
-cut-

care to clarify this? if this is good enough, I might unvote.
The thing is, though, I'm reading LlamaFluff and OGML as a scumteam thusfar.

[Locke Lamora]

SGR: Fine, we get that you think Ythill is town now. I still haven't really got a straight answer out of you over whether you thought the WC attack was scummy - and that's not at the present moment, I mean earlier in the game when you spent ages talking about how it made no sense to you.

OhGodMyLife is tunneling, and trying to set up chain lynches, while not actually scumhunting whatsoever
Even though there are some wall posts I need to take the time to read *looks at Ghostlin*,

I doubt they will make me change my vote.

I would be happy voting SGR, but I like this wagon more:

vote: OGML

How can you make this assertion when you haven't read everything? This implies your reads are disingenuous. Your indication of readiness to drop your suspicion if Ythill comes up with something on OGML is also scummy.

AGar: what exactly do you think was wrong with Ani's logic about WC? As far as I can see, that's a pretty accurate description of what he was doing.

[Ythill]

@SGR:

Brevity please.

@far:

Okay, dropping the subject but since you can't (or won't) explain it, I'm logging it as a tell.

@Saint:

I don't explain my town tells. Besides, I'd already decided to see what comes of an OGML wagon after we got a VC, so I like your vote right where it is.

UNVOTE: Ghost
VOTE: OGML
Zoooooooooooom.

[SGRaaize]

@SGR:

Brevity please.

Ghostlin believes I am retarded enough to Chainsaw defend my scumbuddy D1 when he got two votes at the first page of the thread and believes I am retarded enough to think you might be lynched soon even though you had votes for election and people trusting you.
Furthermore, Ghostlin makes a colossal Wall of Text based on those two assumptions, leaving only two good points against me behind (I "gave up" and "May god have mercy on this Town's soul if I am lynched")
He says I didn't mind lapses of logic against other people but when its against me its a big deal (even though the whole point bases on the fact I defended lapses of logic against WrathChild)

And its all bullshit.

Brevity for you <3

[Ythill]

That's 100x better. It's so much better that I may very well quote #220 and #231 in an MD topic about brevity when this game is over.

Thank you.

[OhGodMyLife]

Guys, first off, tunnel vision isn't even scummy because its never been a bad thing to try to get the person you're sure is scum lynched, and second I haven't been exhibiting tunnel vision simply because I haven't voted for anyone else. Third, again, its not setting up chain lynches when what I've said is conditional. If scum then scum is the only relation I've posited. Its not like if he flips town I'll go durrr ok well I thought AGar was his scumbuddy so he must still be scum

[OhGodMyLife]

Unelect: farside, Elect: Gaggle

[SGRaaize]

BTW, I do not agree with OhGodMyLife BW, I agree that Tunnel =/= Scum, and I think OhGodMyLife is not scum, but a person that just isn't trying.
He would be a good lynch if there weren't any other suspects and we wanted to proceed the game without NL's, but I think that Ghostlin and Ani are better choices, so I'l keep my vote on Ghostlin

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Ok, here goes. Splitting this up because we're posting this in chunks, because this is being written during 30 minute Megavideo timeouts of Dexter Episodes >_>
tl;dr: Ghostlin and SGR are townreads and we do not want them lynched.
We would also not like to see Farside elected, as he is null leaning scum, while we have a very very strong townreads on Seacore, for example.


The key is motivation, motivation, motivation.


Ghostlin:
ISO#0: We disagreed on his first post at first. This head took it as a mild towntell due to going A and B the C of D when asked about experience.
While we both agree that the post could be called bad from a strictly theory point of view, neither of us found it scummy.

ISO#1: Reading the thread closely, pro-town intent.

ISO#2: General Helpfulness

ISO#6: While nearly everyone else at this point has elected and stuck with their elects, he responds to changes in the game by Unelecting someone who has dropped in his reads.
Sure, the paragraph above this is weak, but think of motivations. Scum appease. Town don't care about feelings.
Which of these is Unelecting someone in response to them attacking you?

ISO#11: NOt a great case, sure. Yeah, there's a lot of IIoA. But again, if you read that case for pro-town motivation, it's dripping with it.
Scumhunting is about more than buzzwords and textbook approaches, just like being town is not textbook for everyone else.

Next up: Why SGR is town.

[Ghostlin]

Ythill: My arguments against SGR distill down to the following:

1) He suspects you well enough in ISO 1 to say. "If there's anyone you should suspect it's Ythill, and here's why." Later pulls a 180, electing you.

2) Buddies up to WC, admits he buddies up to WC, then says that doesn't count due to the fact that no scum would be dumb enough to do that as a scum tactic. Does something equally unappetizing in the 180 face turn on you, saying no scum would be dumb enough to try to make a lynch case on you. This is poor logic, and WIFOM, because if no one EXPECTS scum to act so stupid, why wouldn't they?

3) AtE: In one post he pretty much calls town doomed if they vote for the reasons they're voting for him. In another post, he throws in the towel (with a mea culpa).

4) OMGL uses a gut case against him, he lets him off. Ythill uses what he finds are bad reasons against WC, he lets him off. I use more logic than OMGL, I'm scummy.

5) He's repeated the mantra that I joined the wagon when it was getting steam. I was the second real vote on that wagon. This is a blantant distortion, because in order to sheep that wagon, I would have to be psychic to see it was going anywhere worth going.

[SGRaaize]

1) Are you kidding me? Are you ignoring my posts, or something?

BETWEEN THE TWO, YTHILL SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE SCUMMIER BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONE TO START THE SHITSTORM ON WRATHCHILD OVER NOTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE. I SUSPECT

NONE

OF THEM, I DON'T SUSPECT

NEITHER

. THEY'RE

BOTH TOWN

. What are you missing?

2) I didn't admit I buddied up, I kind of defended him in an attempt to see the logic on WrathChild, also, how funny is it that you argue that I am scum because I'm budding up with WrathChild at the same time that you argue that I am scum because I am trying to find a reason to lynch WrathChild? LOOOOOOOOOOOL

3) Two legitimate points, I'l give you those. Even if you are clearly spinning it out of context because: 1) I meant "Town is doomed if it lynches me because of this" = "Town is dumb" = "Town is losing". And 2) I was gonna sleep, and I was expecting to be lynched before I woke up. But yes, two legitimate points. (BTW, its not Mea Culpa, quite the opposite, as I said it wasn't my fault)

4) OMGL gave me the read that he just isn't trying, he said he had a Gut Feeling on him, which I think is not exactly a Town-Tell, but it isn't a scum-tell either, you, on the other hand, are trying to Town-Tell by making "logic" reasons to vote me, even though 90% of those logic reasons aren't logic at all and show either you: 1) Didn't pay attention. or 2) Are trying to lynch me at all costs, specially now that you've been called on it. And that, contrary to OMGL, is a scum-tell

5) You were the second to vote, but you were far from the second to show some suspicion towards me in one way or another. Gaggle, OMGL, Animorpherv, WrathChild. That's quite a big BW already, so you didn't need to predict jackshit

[Ghostlin]

1) That's

NOT WHAT YOU SAID

. Period. End of story. Do I need to quote it again to prove that's not what you said? You never said "out of WC and Ythill, we should suspect Ythill because"...don't accuse me of worming out of things when you won't even concede it might have been taken another way NOW.

2) You acutally did say something to the effect of 'well, this might look like buddying' so you did. Want me to quote it?

3) The Mea Culpa came in when you admitted giving up looked scummy.

4) First off, you don't even address the Ythill argument. Secondly, you've accused me of not paying attention when I'm paraphrasing your OWN WORDS. Do you not read some of the stuff you type? You're spinning your wheels on how your contradictions aren't scummy when they are.

5) Do you think there might be a reason town suspected you? At all? Or you just going to sit there and spin?

[SGRaaize]

1) Its exactly what I said, ya dunce

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2848638

If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill, for

If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill

If you have to suspect someone, it should be

If you have to suspect someone

If you have to suspect

If

you

have

to

suspect

2) ...... You're refering to

So, yeah, I know I sound like I'm buddying, but I have no idea what part of the answer turned you from "What's the pro..." to "WOW, yeah, I see it".

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2848638

Saying "It might look like I'm buddying" =/= Admit I'm buddying.
Protip: I wasn't

And way too ignore

how funny is it that you argue that I am scum because I'm budding up with WrathChild at the same time that you argue that I am scum because I am trying to find a reason to lynch WrathChild? LOOOOOOOOOOOL

3) Ah, fair enough, yes, it kinda looks scummy on retrospective, my bad, once again, those are the only two legitimate points you have against me, though. And they aren't enough for a lynch, IMO

4) I haven't contradicted myself, get over it.

5) As of that moment, there was nothing good for people to suspect me, the two points in which I can be suspected are my "Give up" post and my "You are doomed" post. In that moment, there was a big BW on me for no reason, and you joined it with even more bad arguments against me.

[Ghostlin]

And now for something completely not related to SGR, the Ani read I promised:

I have to admit, and maybe this will get people going 'you didn't read the thread, Ghostlin', I didn't get why people found Ani so offensive. I couldn't remember anything that rang alarm bells, or anything that I could go 'wow, that's scummy.'

Good news: I've still not found anything.
Bad news: That's because there's scant little to find. Which has always to me been downright scummy, it means you're posting, but not making contributions.

Three of his posts are passive aggressive attacks against WC for something he didn't understand or find. (ISOs 2-4 respectively.) He votes Wraith, then switches to SGR without much reason except SGR called him out for an FoS so now he voted him, to match the expected behavior (ISO 5). ISO 6 is explaining things to farside: yet, no expansion of the SGR case that he has. It's like he's not actively posting/playing except to choose a wagon and stick to it like a car suction cup.

At the moment

Fos: Ani

. I wouldn't mind lynching him at all today.

[farside22]

@far:

Okay, dropping the subject but since you can't (or won't) explain it, I'm logging it as a tell.

Pretty sure I explain why the my was there. Either you choose to believe me or not.
On the subject of things that make no sense why are you voting for OGML when you say he dropped a few town tells?

Unelect: farside, Elect: Gaggle

ouch I'm so hurt that scum OGML unelected me.

I think what people are forgetting is the OGML had poor reason's for his vote and push on SGR.
In case you missed it this was part of his reasoning:

SGR is trying to avoid confrontation and attention. I find the latter more insidious, and definitely worthy of my attention first and foremost.

None of this holds any truth what-so-ever.
Also this falacy:

If/when SGR flips scum, the following are his most likely buddies in order of likelihood:

AGar
Wrath
Locke

out of 3 people on this list 2 of him is due to defending SGR. This doesn't include behavoir or what anyone said. One thing. That's it. Nothing about how their playing, but because apparently in OGML's world all scum defend each other.
Give me a break.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Unvote

Vote: Farside

[Apokalyptika]

See its not lining up lynches, its conditionally stating that if SGR flips scum I will lynch you too.

That's still lining up lynches, you see. You're saying you don't want me dead today, you want me dead tomorrow.

The conditional of "if" doesn't apply here

, because you seem dead-set on SGR-scum, so you using that word is just trying to play semantics in your favor.

So I'm a bit late on this, but I'm really not liking this post. Whether OGML is "dead-set" on SGR being scum doesn't matter in this case, because it doesn't change his actual alignment. The way AGar's talking about it, especially the emphasized part, it seems like he's a little too sure about SGR's alignment. Maybe even a little too I'm-scumbuddies-with-SGR sure.

Unvote, Vote: AGar

Also,

Elect: Ythill

.

Now I need to digest all these big posts that have sprung up.

[Tasky]

omg, this game is going way to fast. why do all of you keep posting endless walls of text?
It's not like I am going to read all that.

Elect: AGoG,Ythill,Tasky

Why is what SGR there said scummy, Tasky?

dunno exactly, but as soon as I read it, I immediately thought that only scum could post something like that. "I didn't do anything wrong" is scum mentality who tries to find where they slipped. town wouldn't post that, they would carry on and/or find the scum on their wagon, since they know they can't have scumslipped.

[Ythill]

SGR v Ghost is boring me. I feel like the stances are clear on both sides.

@SGR:

Srsly dude, wagon != lynch. Flirting with a handful of big wagons is the key to catching scum. The info we create today is the win on D4, especially in a setup that's heavily weighted to favor town in the midgame.

Pretty sure I explain why the my was there. Either you choose to believe me or not.

FTR, I believe that you were distracted and made a mistake. However, you were not able to identify the textual source of that mistake.

On the subject of things that make no sense why are you voting for OGML when you say he dropped a few town tells?

Wagons are good. If you're asking why he's scummy, the only dirt I have ATM is the way he fluffed your reasoning on SGR and then repeated it as his own. I have him listed as null.

Ghost is looking scummier with his willingness to lynch any lead wagon other than him, especially with that wishy-washy read on ani. A townie brownie for Apok, though I don't find his point compelling in context. And Tasky just left null for scummy.

People need to move their votes around more. Parking is not our friend.

[AGar]

AGar: what exactly do you think was wrong with Ani's logic about WC? As far as I can see, that's a pretty accurate description of what he was doing.

My issue was with his "It's cool I'm not worried about the OMGUS vote on me," which has no purpose being said in the first place then his weak reasoning to re-inforce is random vote on the guy he said he isn't worried about the OMGUS vote coming from.

That totally makes sense in my head.

Guys, first off, tunnel vision isn't even scummy because its never been a bad thing to try

to get the person you're sure is scum lynched

, and second I haven't been exhibiting tunnel vision simply because I haven't voted for anyone else. Third, again, its not setting up chain lynches when what I've said is conditional. If scum then scum is the only relation I've posited.

Its not like if he flips town I'll go durrr ok well I thought AGar was his scumbuddy so he must still be scum

The flawed logic appears again!

Let me explain:

IF YOU ARE "SURE" SGR IS SCUM, THERE IS NO NEED TO LEAVE A CONDITIONAL "IF", BECAUSE THAT "IF" DOESN'T EXIST IN YOUR MIND. YOU ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO CHAIN LYNCHES, IN A CLEVER WAY.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: OGML

How many fucking times do I have to point out this shit logic before people actually realize it.

Apok - see the caps rage.

[SGRaaize]

I disagree with Agar's logic.
When a person says Sure, it obviously doesn't mean he's 100% positive the target is gonna appear scum, I think Agar is trying to bust OGML on worthless semantics. And I find it hard to believe Agar actually believes what he's typing.

And yeah, as I said, I think this wagon is positive, I think OGML is just a Townie that isn't trying hard, Ghostlin is scum

[Tasky]

UNVOTE: VOTE: AGar