American Gods Mafia - Game over

[WrathChild]

Who disagrees with an OGML lynch?

[SGRaaize]

Good point

Unvote

Vote: OGML

To be honest, although I see some scum pointers from him, I don't think he's nearly as scummy as Ani or Ghostlin. But I don't mind lynching him. I think we have got as much as we could from this day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

3) Welcome, MoI. Any comment on my AGar case?

What case is this? I looked through your ISO and all I could come up with is –

So I'm a bit late on this, but I'm really not liking this post. Whether OGML is "dead-set" on SGR being scum doesn't matter in this case, because it doesn't change his actual alignment. The way AGar's talking about it, especially the emphasized part, it seems like he's a little too sure about SGR's alignment. Maybe even a little too I'm-scumbuddies-with-SGR sure.Unvote, Vote: AGar

If this is what you are referring to then I’ll simply say I don’t think your analysis of the situation holds water at all. I don’t read at all that AGar is sure of SGR’s alignment from the post you quoted.

4) I read over OGML's posts again. Not the towniest posting I've ever seen, but not as scummy as AGar. I could actually see them being scumbuddies, though.

So your think it is possible they are both scum distancing from each other so heavily Day 1 that they’ve ended up forming wagons that could develop staying power on each other?

--

Then in ISO #22 he advocates that Farside is scum, but still wants to see where an Agar wagon goes, which was at a measley 3 votes at the time.

So it is scummy for him to not join a farside wagon (which at the time had I believe 1 vote) while keeping his vote on AGar (who had 3 votes at that moment including OGML)?

It’s one thing to attack him for voting for obv-Town. It’s completely different to attack him for having a scum read (even another fail read) on someone and not moving his vote to them when the result of the move would be to have even LESS votes where he ended up.

--

Her response isn't logical at all though. Unexplained votes are great.

As said … I disagree completely and am disappointed Faraday let that crap out of your QT. I’m not going to spend countless lines having the equivalent of an MD discussion with you.

[WrathChild]

@MOI: You missed the point. I'm bothered by OGML voting Agar purely based on what SGR said or did not say about him. It tells me that OGML is still hellbent on SGR being scum and essentially tunneling on him even though he is trying to make it appear not so. I know people are going to come back to me with a definition of tunneling because, Yes, OGML is not only attacking SGR any more, but his vote on Agar is based on the OBVSCUM assumption that he's smearing SGR with and still demonstrates that he has blinders on.

[Jahudo]

”You keep hanging out under bridges, Mad Sweeney, people gonna think you’re a troll.”

Nexus is V/LA until Tuesday, March 8.
Llamafluff is V/LA until March 9.

Lynch Vote Count

OhGodMyLife (5) – AGar, MagnaofIllusion, Locke Lamora, WrathChild, SGRaaize
Ghostlin (4) - werewolf555, Llamafluff, Seacore, Ythill
AGar (3) – Apokalyptika, vezokpiraka, OhGodMyLife
A Gaggle of Geese (2) – farside22, Saint
SGRaaize (1) - animorpherv1
Llamafluff (1) – Nexus
Farside22 (1) - A Gaggle of Geese
MagnaofIllusion (1) – Ghostlin

Not Voting (0):

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch.

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Farside22 (11) – animorpherv1, farside22, Seacore, SGRaaize, AGar,
Ythill, Apokalyptika, Locke Lamora, Saint, werewolf555, MagnaofIllusion
Ythill (10) – Llamafluff, Seacore, animorpherv1, Agar, farside22, SGRaaize, Vezokpiraka, Apokalyptika, Saint, werewolf555
A Gaggle of Geese (8) – Vezokpiraka, WrathChild, Ghostlin, Apokalyptika, AGar, Llamafluff, Locke Lamora, OhGodMyLife
Seacore (7) – Ythill, Seacore, Vezokpiraka, A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize, WrathChild, werewolf555
---
Llamafluff (5) – Ythill, Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife, animorpherv1, Locke Lamora
AGar (4) – farside22, WrathChild, Saint, MagnaofIllusion
Ghostlin (2) – A Gaggle of Geese, Ghostlin
OhGodMyLife (1) – OhGodMyLife
MagnaofIllusion (1) - MagnaofIllusion

Not Voting (5):

A Gaggle of Geese x1, Nexus x3, Ghostlin x1

Today's deadline is March 19 at 6:00 PM EST

[A Gaggle of Geese]

And this is where you guys lost your Town read and Election from me.

As said … I disagree completely and am disappointed Faraday let that crap out of your QT. I’m not going to spend countless lines having the equivalent of an MD discussion with you.

These don't match up. If it's an MD issue why did did it lose us our town read?

[Seacore]

Unvote

Vote OGML

Choo choo!

[SGRaaize]

Ghostlin, Gaggle, Nexus, farside22, Saint, Apolakypktika, vezokpiraka, werewolf, llama, Ythill. ALL ABOARD THE TRAIN

[Seacore]

Right when I get suspicious of Seacore for defending OGML,

Did you read my post, the one that you quoted? I think OGML is scum. I stated I was happy to vote for either Ghostlin or OGML, whichever bandwagon was bigger. I have since moved to OGML because it got more steam. This is not the same as an FOS on a scum buddy because I clearly stated what conditions would change my vote. And then (albeit after your accusation) I followed them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

These don't match up. If it's an MD issue why did did it lose us our town read?

Seriously which head is this? If it is Faraday I'm going to scream.

You lost your Town read because I don't think unexplained votes are great - I think they are craptastic and scumtastic. Furthermore 'clever tarps' based on them aren't scum-hunting, IMO.

I see Farside's reaction as completely understandable given the circumstances. I call it a MD issue because we can go back and forth saying "Yes they are great and farside's reaction doesn't make sense" and "No, they are stupid and her reaction makes perfect sense" endlessly. We have opposing viewpoints and neither slot is going to change opinions from a conceptual standpoint.

[Seacore]

MOI, while most of the conversation can wait til tomorrow, after an OGML flip, I do see potential distancing between AGar and OGML, I think they could very much be scum buddies.
In my opinion, AGar was never at real risk of being lynched today, so OGML joining apok and vezok on the lynch is really not proof of him wanting to lynch AGar.
Similiarly, AGar was the first vote on the OGML wagon. That's a great place to put your vote on Day 1, so you can yell about it mid game and say you always thought your buddy was scum. OGML also tried earlier to establish "suspicion" on AGar with his " if SGR flips scum these three people are scum" post.
So there's a case there, and I don't find anything strange about Apok seeing it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So there's a case there, and I don't find anything strange about Apok seeing it.

You know what would have been great? Letting Apock answer himself so I could get a better read on the person I ASKED THE QUESTION.

[Seacore]

Meh, people who agree with me are always town

[Ythill]

Responses...

@GG:

Thanks for your answers.

I played with AGar in Reck's LOST games. He was both town and scum in that games. I get the meta read from the language he is using...

Also he was scum in mafia on holy orders and acted the same.

What language? What do you mean by "acted the same?" (I noticed where you said you'd answer tomorrow, thanks in advance.)

@Saint:

1. By "wrong direction" I mean that there was depth to my reasons, just not the depth you suggested. In brief, I use cardflips and VCA to do the bulk of my mid- to late-game scumhunting.
   
2. I mean it's obvious to anyone who is reading because I've already shared some scumreads.
   
3. Magna is listed as scum because of blending with the crowd and bad reasoning in Tasky's #245. (Though he's sliding back towards null now, courtesy of MoI play.)

@Ythill, why the wagon hop?

I've told you once about obvious questions. If you find me for suspicious for changing my vote often on D1, you're going to lose credibility.

how exactly do you know the set-up is weighted to favour Town mid-game?

The S/R mechanic forces scum to either waste two kills (aka leave PRs alive) or have two extra confirmed, competent town alive in the midgame. PoE alone will give us a huge advantage. Plus the BS mechanic allows more opportunities to create information before then, and the private forum with cyclic membership ensures that the midgame will contain living, competent players with enough knowledge to exploit that information.

In his ISO #15 he pleads that tunneling is not scummy. This is where I see him at least make an effort to stop doing so... even though he is trying to appear like he is no longer tunneling (because he was called out pretty hard on it), he still is.

An interesting point that I missed. I don't think tunnel-vision is a scumtell without qualification, but OGML's reactions there were pretty dirty. Scumpoint for OGML, townie brownie for Wrath.

[Ythill]

UNVOTE: Ghost
VOTE: OhGodMyLife L-3.

There has been a lot of movement on my lists due to the amount of content. Here are the new tallies...

Scum (in order): Ghost, ani, OGML, Apok
People of interest: Magna, Wrath
Town: GG, vezo, SGR, Saint, Seacore, Llama (honorary), farside, LL

Un-elect Llama; elect AGaggleofGeese

[Seacore]

I thought you didn't post your town reads?

More votes on OGML people, let's have an early night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I thought you didn't post your town reads?

He's already done it on at least one other occasion this game itself. Did you not see them in his earlier posts?

--

@Ythill

- In case I missed it ... please explain the significance to LlamaFluff being an honorary townie. I don't quite get that.

[Ythill]

@Sea:

I don't post the reasoning behind them.

@Magna:

Some players are worthwhile enough as town that I am less willing to lynch them on D1 due to the low percentage accuracy of D1 lynches, so I start them at town rather than null. Llama and Seacore both qualified in this game. I have since built an actual townread on Seacore. Llama is still at null, behaviorally speaking.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

I don't think OGML is scummy, or indeed scum.

[Seacore]

I thought you didn't post your town reads?

He's already done it on at least one other occasion this game itself. Did you not see them in his earlier posts?

I was being flippant, which yeah, I should avoid doing, but I was distracted at work.

[Ghostlin]

Yeah, OMGL has a lot of posts, but no acutal cases or even much content. He also asks someone he supposedly thinks is scum who he should vote for out of two options, which I can't see the use of unless you wanted to play the WIFOM game with yourself. Or you didn't acutally believe in what you were saying. I am OK with this wagon.

Unvote.

VOTE: OMGL L-2.

[OhGodMyLife]

WORD. That happened fast. You guys having fun yet? I'm having a blast.

I think I mentioned something about Mardi Gras already. I won't be reading, or caring about, this recent pile on until probably Thursday.

[OhGodMyLife]

I guess its safe to say I'm not getting elected though.

Unelect: OhGodMyLife, Elect: SGRaiize

[farside22]

Alright I'm taking a break for now. My brain officially is off now. I'm going to post my thoughts on most everyone. I still have a few people left to look into.

animorpherv1 - morph really looks scummy to me. So far he's attacked WC and SGR. His attack on WC was weak reasoning. His vote on SGR is omgushish and weak again. He points SGR scum for defending WC saying scum together. Still waiting on morph's response to my question about SGR. Right now morph looks to be going for the VI's in this game which is scummy.

AGar - I like Agar. The post were he pointed out OGML's post and saying how he has seen players act in other games as town have town over scum earned him a town point for me. I like his attack on OGML, but I really hate when people back down to go for a BW vote. (IE morph vote)
I see from Agar and Ythill that joining BW in large games day 1 is informative. I don't feel like giving up on my #1 scum suspect for pressure on another wagon helps town. I have seen in the past scum slip under the radar when they don't have to worry about being attacked and just float by. Only one issue I had. See question below. For the most part good read.

Apokalyptika - I'm not sure about Apoka. He a least made a case on someone that no one else did and had an opinion that wasn't just about SGR or morph, but I don't agree with his reasoning. I need more input.

Nexus - one post. No read. Supposed to be back tomorrow.

vezokpiraka - refers to meta when reading players (IE: ghost, agar) What language is it that Agar did that equates to scum vs town? I'm not liking vezo. He doesn't explain things about his reads other then meta but doesn't explain what that meta is.

werewolf555 - same onliners I expected from him. Null reading.

Tasky/MOI - Tasky feels odd. I sensed he was lost, but the vote on Agar made no sense. MOI actually had me laughing with his VI's slap fight comment (sorry it was funny).
Are you saying 'Tarp' on purpose for some reason? It really looks so odd. Also you stated there were others you found scummy, would you do a quick reason/who post?
I actually like many points that MOI is making. I like the questions he's posed so far..yup straight and to the point. Still would like my request (hey call me paranoid I know how good you were as scum in the invitational).

Ghostlin -

Elect: GaggleofGeese: I've played with Chess before, and have been less than impressed, so I'm surprised at this election, HOWEVER, GG has shown remarkably good judgement in the beginning of this game.

Elect: Ythill: Disliking of his Wrath vote or not, the way he's handled himself seems pretty townie in this very early stage. He's kept up the pressure and is actively scumhunting.

Since my first question on this post got missed I'm adding a question now.
What did you see from GG that lead you to make the comment?
What about Ythill did you see he was handling himself well, actively scumhunting and keeping pressure?
As much as I don't look at the iso's list the tl'rd was interesting, not anything else mentioned. hmmmm I maybe wrong about my first impression of ghost, UGH that vote on OGML really goes back to the WTF moment.
@Ghost: Why did you switch to OGML? Is he scummier then SGR in your book? Why if you find OGML scummy did you not say anything about him before?



Llamafluff - I already have a few questions posted in this game to you. But in case it's missed, Why do you read morph as town?
My biggest problem with LF is the last game we were in together I thought he was scum there too. I just don't care for his morph defense, call it more knowing his personal preference on why he voted for morph, call it that I don't see anything town about morph so I question his read in the matter.



Ythill - Reading Ythill is like reading a cold hard machine. I mean damn boy are you always cold and analytical when playing mafia? There are maybe 2 or 3 post I felt wasn't like reading a robot (no offense). Not this is a tell, just a weird experience for me personally. What does MotR stand for? Why are you voting for GG backstage when in one post you stated "I'm starting to think that only the chess head is being scummy" Did something change between that post and your election vote?
Plays close to the chest on some issues. I don't see anything.....I think I'm still thrown by the coldness. I know for the most part I have a town read in general, but it's not singing town read....idk, weird.

Ghostlin gains more scumpoints for choosing the SGR wagon as his poison, after telling me my Large Game theory was essentially wrong.

This statement is false. Ghost voted SGR first before you made your comment. Why did you claim this?

Btw, a question I want to ask you that's ISO related: were you serious about your first vote in your ISO? Do you think that we should use the sacrifice mechanic as a PL means?

Did I mean that werewolf vote. I said I would vote for him, if felt good, yes I know his play hence my vote. Do I believe in policy lynching.......I sometimes wish I did. I have seen VI's hurt the town many times over. This game at least lets us sacrifice a player in exchange for another.
What doe PL mean?

[Saint]

@Ythill
I don't see how you wagon hopping and bandwagonning has anything to do with my credibility. If I call you out on something that is valid, if anything, it should bolster my credibility. There's nothing solid about what you're doing with this. You are trying to make me look like a crazy person, only because I'm the sole person who has voiced suspicions of you whatsoever. Your awkward defensiveness on this matter is noted.

1) I agree with using votecounts and flips. I use flips on associate tells D1 in the RVS...
I know that's a weird strategy, but hey, I like it.
2) Key word some. That's what I mean... you should reserve some.
3) I don't feel quite the same way with his last post, especially if OGML flips scum like I expect he will

unvote: gag

VOTE: OGML