American Gods Mafia - Game over

[A Gaggle of Geese]

MoI 560 is one of the stupidest posts I have ever had the misfortune of reading. More "scummy people" electing a target does not in any way imply, according to a sliding scale of how many such "scummy people" are electing, the probability that the electee is scum.
Actually, if you'd turned on your brain, which we all know you have, you'd realize that it would actually make us TOWNIER.
Since you aren't this bad, I'm taking this as further evidence that you are scum completely making up bullshit to suit your goal of keeping us from backstage, since you know we have good reads, and are scared.

inb4 you come back with "Further evidence" lolololl there was no evidence at all.
Do that and you die. Guaranfuckingteed. You can try to play coy, but it's not going to work.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Kubla …

I see several people commenting on how the inability to get a Ghost (now KK) wagon built is an indication of being scum. Yet no-one makes the same observation about OGML. His wagon was at L-1 and only fell apart because he went lurker-mode for Mardi Gras. He returns with a ‘reads’ list (which isn’t scum-hunting) and some speculation that about Ghost and Nexus. Oh, and throws in some pointless OGMUS statements to boot. And he disappeaers again. Not exactly play that stands out as Pro-Town.

--

I'm uh, quite flippant. Anyway it's a gut read of course which obviously makes it completely invalid. Hopefully everyone else gets the same gut twinge and we can eventually lynch you.

You say that but in the two games we’ve played together (your half of the Hydra in Hydra Mafia and Lost Season 2) I would not characterize you as flippant.

--

Ah, I knew Chesskid couldn’t keep his personal grudges stay hidden for long ..

MoI 560 is one of the stupidest posts I have ever had the misfortune of reading. More "scummy people" electing a target does not in any way imply, according to a sliding scale of how many such "scummy people" are electing, the probability that the electee is scum. Actually, if you'd turned on your brain, which we all know you have, you'd realize that it would actually make us TOWNIER.

Yes, the troll mocks what he doesn’t understand. I get that. You don’t get the purpose of 560 at all. It wasn’t about labelling you scum. But that you think more scum electing you makes you Town is funny.

The point of 560 was to test the validity of Ythill’s claimed assertion about scum wanting to slide one of their own Backstage. I took his list of suspected scum and compared it to the Backstage voting. If he truly believed his premise then the most scum voting for someone should reveal the stealth scum candidate. He responded and gave me more information for my read on him.

Funny how touchy you are when you suspect someone is even suggesting you are scum. Reaction in much greater intentsity than stimulous. Aka scum nervousness.

inb4 you come back with "Further evidence" lolololl there was no evidence at all.
Do that and you die. Guaranfuckingteed. You can try to play coy, but it's not going to work.

Pre-emptive arguing against something happening? Classic scum-tell.

As for your threat … I am hardly scared. I’m used to being Nightkilled by scum N1. See the Title thread regarding that.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Because putting "Thoughts?" at the end of that was clearly you disagreeing with Ythill, and not at all you trying to start an unelect GG movement, amirite?

Oh hey look, being MoI. Classic Scum tell?
See what I did there? I said something, and then I called it a scumtell! WOOOO MOM LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Let's get something straight.
Do you seriously think Scum woud pile on scum with elect votes? Are you actually trying to argue this?
And no, we don't think "because scum are electing us we're town". We KNOW we're town, tyvm. The argument I was making there was clearly a general theory argument, and one you don't seem to understand.
Also, all these people on our wagon you call scum, we call "Grade A mislynch bait", and guess what? Grade A mislynch bait general have pretty good reads, and suck at arguing them.

Go Ahead, discredit more. (Go Ahead, call this a scumtell more (Go ahead, call that a scumtell more...............))))))

[Jahudo]

”San Francisco isn’t the same country as Lakeside anymore than New Orleans is in the same country as New York or Miami is in the same country as Minneapolis.”

Lynch Vote Count

OhGodMyLife (6) – MagnaofIllusion, WrathChild, SGRaaize, Ghostlin, Saint, Apokalyptika
Nexus (4) – Locke Lamora, farside22, A Gaggle of Geese, AGar
Ghostlin (3) – LynchMePls, OhGodMyLife, Seacore
WrathChild (2) – Ythill, Llamafluff
SGRaaize (1) –Nexus
AGar (1) – vezokpiraka

Not Voting (1):

Kublai Khan

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch.

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Farside22 (8) – farside22, Seacore, SGRaaize, Ythill, Apokalyptika, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls
Ythill (8) – Llamafluff, Seacore, Agar, SGRaaize, Vezokpiraka, Apokalyptika, Nexus, LynchMePls
A Gaggle of Geese (8) – Vezokpiraka, WrathChild, Ghostlin, AGar, Locke Lamora, OhGodMyLife, Nexus, Ythill
Seacore (6) – Seacore, Vezokpiraka, A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize, WrathChild, Nexus
---
LynchMePls (5) – Ythill, LynchMePls, Llamafluff, MagnaofIllusion, Apokalyptika
Llamafluff (4) – Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife, Locke Lamora, Saint
Ghostlin (2) – A Gaggle of Geese, Ghostlin
MagnaofIllusion (2) – MagnaofIllusion, Saint
Locke Lamora (2) – farside22, Saint
Apokalyptika (1) – OhGodMyLife
Saint (1) - WrathChild

Not Voting (4):

A Gaggle of Geese x1, Ghostlin x1, farside22 x1, AGar x1, Kublai Khan x3

Today's deadline is March 19 at 6:00 PM EST

*For the convenience of replacements I will automatically unvote and unelect their predecessors choices. LMP and MoI beat me to it before.

EDIT: Searching for a Ghostin replacement now.

[Ythill]

Mod: The request for replacement you missed was Ghostlin's.

@KK:

Hi. Though your slot has been lite on content, ani managed to drop the fourth largest number of scumtells so far this game and is one of only two slots that I've yet to see a towntell from. I am looking forward to your reads.

@GG:

Since it looks like you're coming backstage with me, I'm going to ask real nice that you try to resist being this reactionary back there. Please?

@Magna:

KK replaced ani, not Ghost.

His wagon was at L-1 and only fell apart because he went lurker-mode for Mardi Gras.

This is nowhere near accurate. One of the reasons OGML's wagon crumbled is because the shameless wagoners moved along. There are three major reasons why I am opposed to an OGML lynch today:

1. He's never been higher than third on my suspect list and that only briefly. Currently, I've got him at null.
   
2. Upon returning from V/LA, he dropped several towntells under pressure.
   
3. Scummy-as-they-come Wrath made a slip that suggests OGML is town.

I really hope we lynch one of Wrath/Ghost today. They are way ahead of the pack in the race for obv-scum.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

I doubt it'll be a problem. I'm a few pages behind in reading this thread due to midterm week and a paper that I just submitted, and Faraday is sick currently, so that was just me being rather irked at what looked to be like a cheap shot while we weren't very active.

[farside22]

I'm going thru and rereading the whole game from the start. I have many notes but this one thing jumped out at the most and I want an explanation.

I will wagon for wagon sake. Any of the WC-SGR-Ani triangle of chaos getting a wagon on them will be good for reads on all of them, and im pretty sure SGR is vote leader.

unvote
Vote SGR

Very next post:

Can someone actually give me a concise ani case right now? As much as I think he is great policy lynch bait, I really cant find much there that justifies a lynch of him.

What changed in between with morph being a person you would wagon for the wagon sake and the very next post where you are asking for a case and calling him great policy lynch bait?

[LlamaFluff]

What changed in between with morph being a person you would wagon for the wagon sake and the very next post where you are asking for a case and calling him great policy lynch bait?

Beacuse between those two posts he had gone from zero to six serious votes for reasons that obviously were not wagon for the sake of wagon since there wasnt a wagon there to start. That ment it had to be serious, and I saw no reason that there could be a serious wagon on him, so I tried to force one out, and it more or less reaffirmed my thoughts on him.

Could one of the GG/Sea voters remove them for LMP now? Not sure how anyone can argue that one of them is more town then LMP is.

[vezokpiraka]

I am sick with the flu.

Don't expect too much from me.

[OhGodMyLife]

I would still really like to lynch ghostlin. I could live with lynching wrath. Currently for some reason it seems really difficult to get traction on either of these wagons because people keep making excuses and coming back to either me or nexus. I'll have more after my shift today.

[Jahudo]

00iCon replaces Ghostlin, effective immediately. Thanks 00iCon!

[Nexus]

Sorry, I ended up being quite busy. I will catch up soon.

[Saint]

I dislike apok following me.
He claimed he was suspicious of me, but he follows my vote?

I would still really like to lynch ghostlin. I could live with lynching wrath. Currently for some reason it seems really difficult to get traction on either of these wagons because people keep making excuses and coming back to either me or nexus. I'll have more after my shift today.

Ghostlin isn't even in the game. You mean his slot? You want to lynch before hearing from the replacement? I like my vote a lot right now.

[farside22]

What changed in between with morph being a person you would wagon for the wagon sake and the very next post where you are asking for a case and calling him great policy lynch bait?

Beacuse between those two posts he had gone from zero to six serious votes for reasons that obviously were not wagon for the sake of wagon since there wasnt a wagon there to start. That ment it had to be serious, and I saw no reason that there could be a serious wagon on him, so I tried to force one out, and it more or less reaffirmed my thoughts on him.

Yet 3 people stated reason's and you still slided away from your position on morph. I don't see why.

I'm currently on page 15 of my reread. Some notes I have that change my view on some people but not all.

I don't like WC post where he list his reads of players. If you read it, he has states reasons that don't make sense on why he believes a person is town. He down plays the ghostlin case with saying I see it but get a town read on him. He does some fence sitting glore on those reads.
Morph is still on my scum list. See meta post for details. Llama is on my scum radar. I don't so far like any answer I have received from him and they contradict an earlier statement.
I should be done with my read this week. For now I'm taking a break from analysising.

[AGar]

537 is a great pointer to why OGML needs to be lynched.

For prolific wagoning. Really? Hypocrite.

No, not for "prolific" wagonning.

For openly just calling out half the game as scum, with intent. I openly admit I wagonned some people I didn't have solid scum-reads on, but rather null players that weren't/aren't townreads just to gauge reactions.

At this point, I just wanna see a lynch. It seems like we've talked in circles on a lot of people here, and are getting nowhere. We've got enough wagonning that a flip will help us tremendously, so why are we still stalling around?

Interested to see KK's reads as well.

[Ythill]

This is ridiculous. I understand that people are busy. I know that there are exams coming up for some of you. But it will only take you a minute to vote for Wrath.

@AGar:

Meh. I suppose I put less weight on "with intent" than you do, because lots of people believe that pressure is more effective when it seems like you want to lynch.

@00iCon:

Hi. Nice fedora. How do you feel about players that replace out under pressure? What are your reads on Wrath and KK?

@The OGML Wagon:

If you are going to insist on parking there, I'd like you to state your opinion of Wrath's #449. Specifically, do you agree that it looks like Wrath is chaining lynches? If not, why not? If so, how are you justifying a lynch on OGML when the point clearly suggests that he is town? Also, what do you think of Wrath's defenses to the accusation?

[Seacore]

I'm still here. I just have nothing to say with everybody going v/la or jumping ship.
I don't think WC is scum, but I'll lynch him at deadline as a VI and not feel too bad about it.

[farside22]

@Ythill: It's a good point. Nexus did the same. If there a big difference between what Nexus said/did and WC?

I want to actually finish my read of the game before anything else.

[Ythill]

If you're talking about #379, the main difference is that Nexus was not voting/suspecting OGML, so there's not the element of cog dis. But yeah, I gave Nexus scumpoints for that post.

@Seacore:

By the numbers, I still prefer a 00iC lynch but I'm pretty ambivalent at this point. Pretty sure they're both scum.

[OhGodMyLife]

Ghost's replace is a null tell, since he posted the exact same message across at least one of his other games.

That being said, the slot is still scummy

In the mean time I'd rather lynch OGML than anybody else, but nexus or ani will do. I could even stomach a WC lynch.

Wait a minute, since when have you been suspicious of ani? You never even mentioned him before this.

[OhGodMyLife]

I would still really like to lynch ghostlin. I could live with lynching wrath. Currently for some reason it seems really difficult to get traction on either of these wagons because people keep making excuses and coming back to either me or nexus. I'll have more after my shift today.

Ghostlin isn't even in the game. You mean his slot? You want to lynch before hearing from the replacement? I like my vote a lot right now.

Are you kidding me right now? First off, of course I mean his slot. It feels like you're being intentionally thick headed with that question. Second, where did I ever say I want a lynch before his replacement has a chance to say something? You're putting words in my mouth. I've never been the person pushing to end this day early. Thats been coming from the people on my wagon, actually.

[LlamaFluff]

What changed in between with morph being a person you would wagon for the wagon sake and the very next post where you are asking for a case and calling him great policy lynch bait?

Beacuse between those two posts he had gone from zero to six serious votes for reasons that obviously were not wagon for the sake of wagon since there wasnt a wagon there to start. That ment it had to be serious, and I saw no reason that there could be a serious wagon on him, so I tried to force one out, and it more or less reaffirmed my thoughts on him.

Yet 3 people stated reason's and you still slided away from your position on morph. I don't see why.

Because upon examination he was not reading as scum at all. While I like wagon for info, I dont like wagon someone I have leaning town for info, especially when no one is giving an explaination for a vote that I like.

[Apokalyptika]

Hey Ythill,

I'm not getting a scummy vibe from WC's post. It's only natural to be somewhat suspicious of someone rushing to hammer, even if you find the lynch target scummy. Also, I skimmed the Cyclic Experimentation game, in which WC was town, and his posting seems consistent with what I've seen here.

[00iCon]

up to reading pg 11. busy today, likely post after tomorrow.

[Kublai Khan]

Okay... Just wolfed down the entire game in spurts during the past 24 hours. It'll take a while to digest as I'm much better at analyzing mafia games on the fly instead of old stuff.

But are some gut feelings on everyone. (order and numbers from the Alive list in OP)

1. A Gaggle of Geese (Faraday / chesskid3 hydra)

Ugh. I really wish they would sign their posts because chesskid3 is a somewhat easier read. I find myself disagreeing with a lot of their reads, but I don't have an established enough meta to know if either are typically accurate with their reads. I'm strongly against them being backstage; mostly because I'm not getting a vibe that either are going to be team players.
Mild Town Read

2. Nexus

I get a town-vibe from his refusal to hammer. Or at worst a null-vibe. He's inexperienced with this site's meta when it comes to hammering. I know plenty of scummers (regardless of alignment) who would come back from V/LA and hammer without thinking twice, then going back to read the game.

That said, his timing and reasoning for not hammering OhGodMyLife strongly binds the two.
Mild Town Read

3. vezokpiraka

I strongly consider vezokpiraka to be a VI. Strangely, I'm getting a townieish vibe from him. He's been clear and consistent (although, as always, underwhelming in amount) with his reads.
Mild Town Read

4. LynchMePls Rep. werewolf555

werewolf555 was scant on info when he did post.

I'm a little pissed at LynchMePls for stealing some of my "replacee thunder". I was totally going to expose Seacore as scummy based on early play (specifically the coaching and fence-sitting) but he beat me to the punch. I also agree with some of his other reads, which I'll get around to.
Medium Town Read

5. MagnaofIllusion Rep. Tasky

Mildest of mild town read from Tasky.

If MagnaofIllusion is scum, then he'll be content to obsfucate his scumtells within massive walls of text. I'm not seeing anything yet, but I admit that my eyes tend to glaze a bit when i see multiple short quote boxes in a post.
Mild Town Read

6. OhGodMyLife

I'm not sold on a lynch of OhGodMyLife. His play is consistent with town-play I've seen from him. I'd like for him to explain his scum reads on farside22, WrathChild, AGar, & Saint when he gets time.
Mild Town Read

7. 00iCon Rep. Ghostlin

Apologies to 00iCon, but this really should be our lynch for today. His early play is filled with Wiki-buzzwords and really shallow & misleading "analysis". He's done a bunch of "gotcha"-scumhunting, which I strongly associate with newb-scum. The timing and reasoning of his votes are also awful, but I think others already covered that.
Strong Scum Read

8. SGRaaize

WTF is up with that "ATATATA" stuff? I don't agree with any of his reads, but I'm not getting consistently strong scum-motivated reasoning behind his actions. That said, I'm not thrilled with his backpedal on Ythill. Also he has a tendency to go out of his way to over-respond to every slightest accusation in order to try to re-write history.
Mild Scum Read

9. Saint

I know this is a furcolow account.. Are you currently hydraing or alting?

That asked.. the play has just been horrible. But there seems to be some sincerety. I think.
Mild Mild Mild Town Read

10. Seacore

I touched on some of my attitude about Seacore earlier. There's other stuff like his Post 405 where I just can't follow the logic.
Moderate Scum Read

11. Apokalyptika

A bit of a wallflower. Has some okay reads, makes an interesting point here or there, but isn't aggressively pursuing anything.
Mild Town Read

12. Ythill

Ythill is town leadering and this game is better for it.
Town Read

13. Llamafluff

This is another read I agree with LynchMePls in his info dump catch up post. LlamaFluff has been pretty underwhelming. He's gotten better, but something is off and I can't put my finger on it. He should keep posting.
Mild Mild Mild Scum Read

15. AGar

He's, uh... looking town and stuff. (Sorry, my brain is breaking down a bit trying to process everything--nothing AGar has done has looked overtly scummy.)
Town Read

16. WrathChild

Panicked and over-whiny about the early pressure on him. I hate people that call themselves an "easy lynch". Seems over-anxious to lynch and get the day ended.
Mild Scum Read

17. farside22

I'm reading farside22 as town mostly because I feel that farside22-scum would have researched chesskid3 a bit before tearing into him. Then again my meta of you is a couple of years old now..
Mild Town Read

18. Locke Lamora

Pointed, focused scum hunting. No problem with his play.
Town Read