[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[chkflip]

They do? I'd assume mafia does since the cop can't get a negative result from the don, on top of the hated miller.

Wait... are cops not supposed to get negative results on werewolves? I assumed scum is scum. Obviously I haven't been playing enough or something. >.>

[chkflip]

It shouldn't work out that way. When they claim, they're confirmed town unless one of the scum decides to counterclaim and get lynched the next day.
Interesting power difference between the scumteams there.

Somehow totally looked over this post, sorry. I know that they're confirmed town, and I don't think that'd be the issue, I just want there to be an air of uncertainty with it; in my opinion, it calls for people to delve deeper into discussion instead of speedlynching when the cop gets a result. No, you're not

supposed

to speedlynch when a cop "claims and outs scum" because it could be a scum gambit, but I've seen people sheep to cops and get lazy in games because the cop's been getting lucky, etc.

You're the first of two people to say something about the difference in powers... what am I not seeing? lol

[Herodotus]

It shouldn't work out that way. When they claim, they're confirmed town unless one of the scum decides to counterclaim and get lynched the next day.
Interesting power difference between the scumteams there.

Somehow totally looked over this post, sorry. I know that they're confirmed town, and I don't think that'd be the issue, I just want there to be an air of uncertainty with it; in my opinion, it calls for people to delve deeper into discussion instead of speedlynching when the cop gets a result. No, you're not

supposed

to speedlynch when a cop "claims and outs scum" because it could be a scum gambit, but I've seen people sheep to cops and get lazy in games because the cop's been getting lucky, etc.

You're the first of two people to say something about the difference in powers... what am I not seeing? lol

The miller, if not already outed, could claim in their first post on day 2. If the cop investigated them the cop just ignores the result.

The mafia and werewolves are different in power because the mafia has one player that shows up guilty to the cop, while the werewolves have two (or zero,) and nothing to compensate for this difference. If you want them to be equal but different, you could give one of the werewolves NK-immunity. But inequality doesn't make a setup bad.

BAD IDEA MAFIA

Wanna see it play out.

"Okay, I'm scum. You got me. Me and my partners agreed to shoot the first person on the wagon every night, unless you idiots try some game like voting whose the first on the wagon, then we'll just shoot whoever is the first to vote for whoever is first on the wagon. Waiting for unvote from #1 to nominate new #1."

Congrats, voting for scum is now against your win condition.

That's closer to how things work in real life if an armed, organized group wants to take over a town through murder...
I wonder whether this threat would be dulled by random lynches?

[GreyICE]

BAD IDEA MAFIA

Wanna see it play out.

"Okay, I'm scum. You got me. Me and my partners agreed to shoot the first person on the wagon every night, unless you idiots try some game like voting whose the first on the wagon, then we'll just shoot whoever is the first to vote for whoever is first on the wagon. Waiting for unvote from #1 to nominate new #1."

Congrats, voting for scum is now against your win condition.

That's closer to how things work in real life if an armed, organized group wants to take over a town through murder...
I wonder whether this threat would be dulled by random lynches?

The worst part is, that if you're VT...

The smartest thing to do at L-1 is claim scum in the thread and make the exact threat I just outlined.

Otherwise they might lynch you.

[andrew94]

hmm chkflip, you could make it so the miller doesnt know he is a miller

[Mr. Flay]

The mafia and werewolves are different in power because the mafia has one player that shows up guilty to the cop, while the werewolves have two (or zero,) and nothing to compensate for this difference. If you want them to be equal but different, you could give one of the werewolves NK-immunity. But inequality doesn't make a setup bad.

NK-immunity is way stronger than inv-immunity in that setup, IMO.

Seacore: I don't like that your 'rainbow' game punishes teams for killing their opponents. Not sure how to balance that, at all... will each color have a different power role progression? If so, it's possible to get an ugly Cop+Doc synergy going (Cop+Doc in Open Setup = Bad Thing).

[chkflip]

That was kind of the plan, andrew.

Oh... maybe I should've said that. o.o

[chkflip]

CHK MAFIA

Edit 1

TOWN

1x Cop
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
1x Vengeful Lover (If miller is lynched/NK'd, Townie is given one day/nightkill then suicides in the same phase)
8x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather w/ inv-immunity
1x Goon

SCUM2

1x Werewolf w/ 1-time BPV
1x Werewolf

DETAILS

- Miller and Vengeful Lover are sent Vanilla Townie Role PM's

[Antihero]

CHK MAFIA

Edit 1

TOWN

1x Cop
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
1x Vengeful Lover (If miller is lynched/NK'd, Townie is given one day/nightkill then suicides in the same phase)
8x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather w/ inv-immunity
1x Goon

SCUM2

1x Werewolf w/ 1-time BPV
1x Werewolf

DETAILS

- Miller and Vengeful Lover are sent Vanilla Townie Role PM's

First, let's come up with a new title.

Next, let's even the scumteams.

Friends, Enemies, and that other A-hole

TOWN

1x Cop (gets "guilty" on mafia and wolves and "innocent on town")
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
2x Vengeful Lovers (If one lover is lynched/NK'd, Townie is given one day/nightkill then suicides in the same phase)
8x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather (1 shot bulletproof)
1x Goon

SCUM2

1x Alpha Werewolf (1-shot bulletproof)
1x Werewolf

How about this?

[Tragedy]

Why not make it possible for the wolves to pass the Bulletproof vest to each other during the Night?

[animorpherv1]

Why not make it possible for the wolves to pass the Bulletproof vest to each other during the Night?

Because the Alpha Werewolf is more powerful than a normal werewolf. Basically, Alpha Werewolf = Godfather for another faction.

[lewarcher82]

dun like the idea of lying to players aobout their role in an open game... it's crappy design, imo

[Olinea]

Operating Room

MAFIA

2

Mafia Goons

1

Mafia Roleblocker

TOWN

3

Doctors

6

Vanilla Townies

Special Mechanics:

~If 2 or more Doctors target the same person, that person dies.

Can I get more opinions on this? I thought it seems kind of like a Fire & Ice variant, so is there a way you think it could be "fixed"?

[lewarcher82]

Operating Room

MAFIA

2

Mafia Goons

1

Mafia Roleblocker

TOWN

3

Doctors

6

Vanilla Townies

Special Mechanics:

~If 2 or more Doctors target the same person, that person dies.

Can I get more opinions on this? I thought it seems kind of like a Fire & Ice variant, so is there a way you think it could be "fixed"?

Make it 7 VTs and it's ready to run.

[chesskid3]

when the roleblocker dies all doctors MC and circleprotect >_>

[Powerrox93]

Operating Room

MAFIA

2

Mafia Goons

1

Mafia Roleblocker

TOWN

3

Doctors

6

Vanilla Townies

Special Mechanics:

~If 2 or more Doctors target the same person, that person dies.

Can I get more opinions on this? I thought it seems kind of like a Fire & Ice variant, so is there a way you think it could be "fixed"?

Ad in one more townie as lewarcher82 said and then I'll

nominate

[chkflip]

Lovers, Wolves, Mafiosos and a Meanie

TOWN

1x Cop (gets "guilty" on mafia and wolves and "innocent" on town)
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
2x Vengeful Lovers (If one lover is lynched/NK'd, Townie is given one day/nightkill then suicides in the same phase)
8x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather (1 shot bulletproof)
1x Goon

SCUM2

1x Alpha Werewolf (1-shot bulletproof)
1x Werewolf

- I thought about it, and I like hiding tidbits or roles, but lew has a point; OPEN. All roles revealed.

[lewarcher82]

Lovers, Wolves, Mafiosos and a Meanie

TOWN

1x Cop (gets "guilty" on mafia and wolves and "innocent" on town)
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
2x Vengeful Lovers (If one lover is lynched/NK'd, Townie is given one day/nightkill then suicides in the same phase)
8x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather (1 shot bulletproof)
1x Goon

SCUM2

1x Alpha Werewolf (1-shot bulletproof)
1x Werewolf

- I thought about it, and I like hiding tidbits or roles, but lew has a point; OPEN. All roles revealed.

there is no difference whatsoever between werewolves and mafia. Cop can catch both... what is the point in calling the werewolves werevolves if you have no werewolf-related town role? Just call them mafia A and mafia B LoL

[chkflip]

Because that's redundant. You're telling me a police officer couldn't tell what a werewolf looks like?

[Xalxe]

Because that's redundant. You're telling me a police officer couldn't tell what a werewolf looks like?

Site meta says yes. Werewolves are usually caught by a seer or something. Otherwise, as stated, call them Mafia A and B.

[chkflip]

Lovers, Wolves, Mafiosos and a Meanie

TOWN

1x Cop (gets "guilty" on mafia/miller and "innocent" on town and werewolves)
1x Seer (gets "werewolf" or "not werewolf")
1x Hated Miller (req's 1 less vote to lynch)
4x Vengeful Lovers [two pair] (If one lover is lynched/NK'd, Townie is given one day/nightkill then suicides in the same phase)
9x Vanilla

MAFIA

1x Godfather (1-shot bulletproof)
1x Goon

SCUM2

1x Alpha Werewolf (1-shot bulletproof)
1x Werewolf

[Herodotus]

I liked the original better than I like your latest version. Now there are 4 scum divided in 2 groups among 20 players, with seven players having claiming power, so it's imbalanced in favor of the town.

[GreyICE]

So the cop can find one scum player in the entire game?

Confirmable townies:
Miller
Cop
Lovers
Seer

So the lynch pool is 9 VT, 4 scum.

Seer is the only useful investigative role. Cop finds one whole scum.

[chkflip]

I made him bulletproof instead of investigative immune. I'm thinking take lovers back down to one set and make them vanilla.

[lewarcher82]

so he is no godfather at all LoL