American Gods Mafia - Game over

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Sacrifice: MOI
Resurrect: Vezo

[Apokalyptika]

Hey OGML, you do realize that your quotes cut both ways? Ythill's 57 is distancing from voting you more than me, 65 was him saying that both of us were removed from lynch candidates, and 39 has you sitting right next to me on the scumlist. 37, while a good point when taking those players as a group, is very weak when looking at one particular member of it. Also, you cite his post 34, where he says "I don't think OGML is scum per se". Leaving himself a huge amount of room to go either way.

Also, you said you were going to look into the llamafluff situation, then totally abandoned that to vote me. Are you scared to analyze your scumbuddy? In addition, you've pulled the same trick twice now, 'giving up' when suspicion falls on you, then when things die down, returning to attack a townie. Yesterday it was ghost, today it's me. A little predictable, don't you think?

[Kublai Khan]

If he REALLY thinks I'm scum and he's town, he needs to shutup, Elect me, and help me bus this waste of a player Apoka

Heh. No. Though I'll re-read Apokalyptika to see if the bus-wagon has any merit.

[Saint]

lmao im on 31 and seeing fate sobering up and his read changing on me when he realized who i was is hilarious

[AGar]

No seriously guys quit fooling, I'm getting sacrificed today, the confirmed town tracker is way more valuable than me

Yes, because having vezok for a day and never getting any results from him is such a great idea.

Fun fact - If we resurrect someone, it should be a STRONG player nearer to the END of the game so we have a good voice in MYLO/LYLO.
Fun fact - Resurrecting Vezok does none of that for us - he's just going to die the next night. Whoop de fucking doo.

OGML is likely town after thinking about it, with regards to the Ythill flip. Which sucks because he was probably my strongest read in D1.

VOTE: MoI

Seriously, his play D1 wasn't impressive, and I'd rather lynch him than waste our time sacrificing to bring back someone for a whopping day phase.

[Saint]

elect: Fate, Farside, GG
sacrifice MOI, ressurect Vezokpiraka
vote: AGar

why you care so much bro?
why are you dissing our dead tracker?
you don't care this much as town, from my experience

[SGRaaize]

No seriously guys quit fooling, I'm getting sacrificed today, the confirmed town tracker is way more valuable than me

Yes, because having vezok for a day and never getting any results from him is such a great idea.

Fun fact - If we resurrect someone, it should be a STRONG player nearer to the END of the game so we have a good voice in MYLO/LYLO.
Fun fact - Resurrecting Vezok does none of that for us - he's just going to die the next night. Whoop de fucking doo.

OGML is likely town after thinking about it, with regards to the Ythill flip. Which sucks because he was probably my strongest read in D1.

VOTE: MoI

Seriously, his play D1 wasn't impressive, and I'd rather lynch him than waste our time sacrificing to bring back someone for a whopping day phase.

I don't think he's gonna die the next night, I think he'l be a target of all protective abilities, and I'm sure there is at least one here.

[AGar]

I don't think he's gonna die the next night, I think he'l be a target of all protective abilities, and I'm sure there is at least one here.

I don't.

Ythill - the largely agreed high-up townread of 90% of this game - is dead. Regardless of his actual alignment, people thought he was quite town, and then all of the sudden he turns up dead? To me that screams no protective role. Or it's in Saint's hands, in which case we were fucked from the get-go anyways.

[Jahudo]

”You are an analog girl, living in a digital world.”

MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until Monday, March 21

Resurrection Vote Count

8 Votes Required

vezokpiraka (5) – SGRaaize, Apokalyptika, farside22, A Gaggle of Geese, Saint

--------------

Sacrifice Vote Count

8 Votes Required

MagnaofIllusion (3) – farside22, A Gaggle of Geese, Saint
OhGodMyLife (2) – SGRaaize, Apokalyptika

--------------

Lynch Vote Count

8 Votes Required

Apokalyptika (4) – Fate, OhGodMyLife, A Gaggle of Geese, farside22
Llamafluff (2) – Apokalyptika, SGRaaize
OhGodMyLife (1) – Seacore
Fate (1) – Kublai Khan
MagnaofIllusion (1) – AGar
AGar (1) - Saint

Not Voting (5):

LynchMePls, MagnaofIllusion, Llamafluff, WrathChild, Locke Lamora

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Farside22 (6) – Seacore, farside22, A Gaggle of Geese, Fate, Kublai Khan, Saint
A Gaggle of Geese (6) – Seacore, farside22, A Gaggle of Geese, OhGodMyLife, Fate, Saint
Fate (5) – Fate, OhGodMyLife, A Gaggle of Geese, farside22, Saint
LynchMePls (2) – Llamafluff, Kublai Khan
Kublai Khan (2) – Llamafluff, Kublai Khan
Seacore (1) – Seacore
AGar (1) - Llamafluff

Not Voting (22): LynchMePls x3, MagnaofIllusion x3, OhGodMyLife x1, SGRaaize x3, Apokalyptika x3, AGar x3, WrathChild x3, Locke Lamora x3

Day 2 ends on April 9 at 4:00 PM EST

[SGRaaize]

I don't think he's gonna die the next night, I think he'l be a target of all protective abilities, and I'm sure there is at least one here.

I don't.

So, you think Jahudo would make a mechanic that can revive people and basically 100% clear them while not having protectors? Isn't that a little pointless?

[Jahudo]

Keep in mind that once a player reaches the majority on a ressurect / sacrifice vote (today is 8 votes), that choice will be locked in and cannot be changed.

You will need to have a majority on both a ressurection target and a sacrifice target before hammering your lynch target, or the process will not work.

[Seacore]

Yay, lets play out guess the mod!

And lets follow up that by reviving one of the biggest VIs in the game.

Alternatively we can try and win this.

unvote. Vote Apok

OGML, if you're useless, we'll just ignore you until we need to sacrifice you to bring back somebody that is actually good for town.
I'm happy to do that with the added bonus that I think you'll flip scum when we do.

[LlamaFluff]

We should resurect vezok later in the game, when he actually can be more useful. Right now we are wasting a resurect on someone who only has one result, and a tracker is a role that actually increases in power as the game continues. I would rather only use the resurect if we have a cop dead, or when we get to the late game point where resurecting forces scum to choose between cleared town and dangerous town. Early in the game who is going to be dangerous town is more speculation, so early resurect is bad.

@Apoc - Reads change. After the flip from ghost, analysis said that AGar is most likely town. You need to realize that things have chances to change when a flip occurs.

I am more willing to vote Apoc today given what has been recetly pointed out, SGR bugs me a little, although he was actually pushing on Ythill for a bit before he completely dropped him. Still doing some reading between the two, trying to figure out if the SGR thing was a wierd distance/bus thing or not. Seas last post pings a bit too.

[farside22]

Mod: Is there only one ressurect per game?

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Unresseruct

i can't spell
i'm also kinda drunk

Unvote

Unsacrifice

Unrevive

adsfasdfasdf

[farside22]

I'm reading the rules and I don't see a ressurct being once per turn.
If I'm correct using the sacrifice to bring back a KNOWN PR TOWN ROLE and getting ride of someone that is a scummy read helps the town.

Hell it's like 2 votes in one.

Speaking of which I still need my game to be filled and it does have 2 votes you can use. Come sign up I only need 6 more people!

Yes I'm pushing my own game while making a point how good getting rid of a second scum suspect will be.

[Seacore]

Farside, there are two sacrifices in this game.

I don't want to waste one on reviving Vezok. With Ythill dying, we won't hit lylo til Day 4 at the absolute earliest. So we can wait until tomorrow, probably until D4 to do it.
But we certainly aren't going to do it when Vezok is the only person we can revive.

It should also be noted that Ythill spoke FOR using a sacrifice/revive today.

[Apokalyptika]

Oddly enough the ghost flip makes me fall back on thinking AGar was scum quite a bit.

Right here, you say that you think AGar's scum, based on the ghost flip. Hence, contradicting yourself.

Seacore:

It should also be noted that Ythill spoke FOR using a sacrifice/revive today.

That's fallacious logic.

[LlamaFluff]

Oddly enough the ghost flip makes me fall back on thinking AGar was scum quite a bit.

Right here, you say that you think AGar's scum, based on the ghost flip. Hence, contradicting yourself.

Poor wording on my part, fall back on ment back off in that case.

[farside22]

So lets give the scum another day to not have a tracker to worry about? Is that what I'm seriously hearing from people?
Just because Vezo is not highly regarded he had a PR that is worth something.
I'm not waiting for lylo for a tracker that will be useless at that point.

@Seacore: What PR would you revive, when and why?

[Jahudo]

You get two resurrections in the game, but cannot use them both on the same player or on a player you sacrifice.

[Seacore]

Using it on a PR is a waste of time, unless they died without revealing results.

If we revive Vezok. Vezok comes back D3, announces "I tracked X on Night 1, he didn't go anywhere" Vezok then, most likely, dies N3
If we use it on an information role that has had 3 or so nights of actions, then that would be well spent.

I'd rather use it on competent scum hunters. MoI or LMP die and don't flip scum, we bring em right back.

[Locke Lamora]

So I looked back at Ythill and Nexus to see how genuine Ythill's approach to the Nexus-wagon was and the reaction of Nexus to it. The Nexus post that initially gets him heat is this:

Ok I'm not willing to hammer OGML at the minute. He just strikes me as a bit of an idiot, rather than scummy. That's just from a brief ISO and reading. I mean, the lynch will be good for VCA if he flips town, and we see who took advantage of the idiot to get a mislynch. I'm happy to hammer just before the deadline, but I'd rather not do it at this specific time.

nominate: Seacore, Gaggle, Ythill

not that it really makes much difference.

Also, OGML has declared that he won't be here until Thursday. Do you want to give him a chance to respond, or are you wanting people to hammer immediately?

Which is followed in 383 by this:

Nexus' #379 contained two scumtells. Just sayin.

I find it slightly incriminating that Ythill is pointing this out but not pressurising Nexus for this. Is he waiting to see how scummy other people find it before he really pushes Nexus on it? That's certainly how the situation plays out - I call Nexus out on 379 and vote for him, after which Ythill congratulates me for finding one of the scumtells - the second he quotes as the last line of 379. If Nexus is scum, Ythill pointing out the scumtells without naming them could also be an attempt to incriminate those who didn't react to it.

The below is Nexus' response to what he thinks Ythill is calling him scummy for:

Ythill: If you read captain rattata's posts (SGR), he's pretty insistent on lynching now. So, I wanted to see what the general opinion of everyone else was. Didn't realise that was scummy. My bad.

This is slightly apologetic in tone and I can certainly see this as being consistent with a scumbuddy, especially a nervous Nexus getting jumped on by aggressive, town-running Ythill and not wanting to cause too much of a stir or dig himself further into a hole.

Following that Ythill hops off the AGar on the Nexus wagon, and parks there while it builds up steam. Meanwhile he tries to tie Nexus to MoI by asking him if he's upset that he caught MoI's buddy Nexus, so if Nexus does flip scum, MoI goes up the town list. Ythill then finally tells Nexus why he thinks 379 was scummy.

@Nexus:

That's not actually the crux of why #379 was scummy. You tried to play both sides of the lynch and you asked for permission to hammer.

To me, it seems more likely that by not explaining the scumtell initially, Ythill is giving Nexus the rope to hang himself by letting him interpret what he thinks is scummy about his post, which I think is probably a point against them being scum together. After that, Ythill does no further analysis or any real pressuring on Nexus' slot and simply includes him in the odd scumlist until he moves his vote.

Here's the votecount when Ythill jumps off Nexus and on to Ghostlin:

Lynch Vote Count

Nexus (6) – Locke Lamora, Ythill, farside22, A Gaggle of Geese, Saint, AGar
OhGodMyLife (4) – MagnaofIllusion, WrathChild, SGRaaize, Ghostlin
Ghostlin (4) – Llamafluff, LynchMePls, OhGodMyLife, Seacore
SGRaaize (2) - animorpherv1, Nexus
AGar (1) – vezokpiraka
Vezokpiraka (1) - Apokalyptika

It's actually not dissimilar to the OGML situation; the Nexus wagon isn't as close to the lynch threshold and we're a few days closer to the deadline, but that's about it. It's certainly the start of another successful wagon derailing by Ythill. Ghostlin obviously then picks up support and becomes the lynch.

On closer inspection, I think Ythill's attitude towards Nexus is fairly likely to be that of a buddy. Although he points out his major scumtell and hops on the wagon, it's after I pressure and vote Nexus first and there's no substantial pressure or analysis of Nexus' play throughout. In addition, he gets off this wagon pretty soon after it becomes the clear leading wagon and moves to Ghostlin. Nexus has precious little interaction with Ythill, but what there is seems very conservative and aimed at defusing the situation.

Vote: Fate

On the topic of Ythill and OGML, I've been thinking about how much Ythill's WC case was based on WC chaining suspicion on OGML flipping town. An OGML scum-flip would pretty much collapse this reasoning, so I'm not all that confident in OGML being scum right now. That said, the 'please sacrifice me now' play doesn't sit well with me, especially when he knows he has Fate ready to shout OGML IS TOWN all day long to dissuade people.

SGR: can you explain why you think it makes a difference that Ythill died before OGML? What do you think would have happened with people's reads of Ythill if OGML had died first?

[farside22]

Using it on a PR is a waste of time, unless they died without revealing results.

If we revive Vezok. Vezok comes back D3, announces "I tracked X on Night 1, he didn't go anywhere" Vezok then, most likely, dies N3
If we use it on an information role that has had 3 or so nights of actions, then that would be well spent.

I'd rather use it on competent scum hunters. MoI or LMP die and don't flip scum, we bring em right back.

Or he has information and the scum or scared to revive him.

Fos: Seacore

[Locke Lamora]

On the topic of resurrection:

I'm inclined to agree that we should wait until later to resurrect. Vezo can't track tonight if he's resurrected as it doesn't happen until the next day, so chances are all will happen is what Seacore said above. I think the more choice we have and the more information we've got about the setup, the better we can use the resurrect mechanic to decide who and when to resurrect. There's also the fact that Vezo can't be fully put out of the game while he's still 'dreaming' so waiting prevents the scum from eliminating the tracker from the game and gives us the potential to bring him back in a later-game situation where if he does get to use his ability, he'll have a much higher chance of catching scum than he does now.

To me, the most valuable part of this is having confirmed townies when there are fewer players about. From a PoE standpoint, this gets ever more valuable the longer the game goes on. Depending on how well we're doing, I'd rather wait until at least tomorrow to use the first sacrifice. From this perspective, I also agree that competent scumhunters are best to bring back; if we could bring back a confirmed-town player with strong scumhunting skills on D4 or D5 then it's going to be a double boost. If we get to a situation where it's obvious that Vezo could come back and have a realistic chance to use his ability on a relatively small pool of players, I think it's a good move. Right now I don't think we know enough to say it's worth using on Vezo.

Preview edit: Um...Farside? How would scum know if Vezo has info?