[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[ortolan]

Hoopla I don't even understand your critique of the setup, it makes no sense to me

- Mafia need two mislynches to win
- Only intellectually impaired mafiates would target the innocent child while the watcher is alive.
- Thus the watcher has an incredibly small chance of successfully guessing who the mafia kill, especially if the mafia show some intelligence and properly randomise who they're going to kill.
- If the mafia happen to target the watcher he's screwed anyway.
- This setup isn't even remotely balanced.

[ortolan]

Maybe if you added four more townies you could bring the mafia win rate down to about 50%

[Crazy]

9 players maybe?

2 Mafia Goons
1 Innocent Child
1 Watcher
5 Townies

That would solve the problem of Mafia getting an automatic 3p endgame just by openly sacrificing themselves, and I'm sure it improves balance, too. I'd much rather do 9p instead of 11p, though, since if an 11p has scum lynched Day 1, then that creates a sucky game.

[GreyICE]

That doesn't seem too far off the power level of 2 goon/1 cop/6 town setup for newbies. Works.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Who to Protect Mafia V2

1 Doctor/RoleCop(Uses Both abilities each night)
1 Iatrophobic Townie(If protected he kills the doctor)
2 Macho Townies
3 Vanilla Townies

1 RoleBlocker
1 Goon

The townies are not told what they are.

[Antihero]

Who to Protect Mafia V2

1 Doctor/RoleCop(Uses Both abilities each night)
1 Iatrophobic Townie(If protected he kills the doctor)
2 Macho Townies
3 Vanilla Townies

1 RoleBlocker
1 Goon

The townies are not told what they are.

What are you going for here, shotty?

To me, I would hate to be a doc in this situation, because instead of playing an optimal doc game (protect the most townish), you have to guess which townie isn't going to kill you. Add on the fact that the townies don't actually know their roles and I don't care for this setup.

[drmyshottyizsik]

He's a role cop...

[gandalf5166]

There's no point to the roleblocker there....... What does the rolecop get when he looks at the mafia?

[drmyshottyizsik]

either vanilla or roleblocker. And the point of the roleblocker is to block the cop/doc

[gandalf5166]

either vanilla or roleblocker. And the point of the roleblocker is to block the cop/doc

But when there's only one power role...... Why wouldn't they just kill him?

[drmyshottyizsik]

either vanilla or roleblocker. And the point of the roleblocker is to block the cop/doc

But when there's only one power role...... Why wouldn't they just kill him?

Only if he was dumb enough to claim...

[gandalf5166]

either vanilla or roleblocker. And the point of the roleblocker is to block the cop/doc

But when there's only one power role...... Why wouldn't they just kill him?

Only if he was dumb enough to claim...

So you're saying that they couldn't find him unless he claimed?

[Antihero]

He's a role cop...

OK, fine but my original question remains unanswered.

Usually when someone proposes an open game, they think "I'd really like to see [whatever] in a game". In Crazy's it's a simple dilemma: should the mafia kill the confirmed town at the risk of being outed by the watcher; and should the watcher spend his night action on the confirmed town knowing this? It's WIFOM: the watcher and mafia are outguessing each other. While there is that twist of WIFOM, though, optimal gameplay will still most likely be rewarded with victory.

Open games could also be centered around a particular role, like Tragedy's poisoner setup (what happened to that anyway?). Personally, I think Poisoner is a really cool and underused role, so that's what we were going for with that proposal.

When it comes to nightactions, this setup seems less of a mafia game and more of a guessing game. Optimal gameplay for the doc here would be to protect the most townish, which could end up being a macho townie (that means a dead townie) or the PGO-like role (which means death for the doc). Compounding to that, the fact that the townies don't know their roles means that the PGO-like role can't even modify his gameplay to be more protown or claim. So, playing the doc/cop role relies less on strategy, reads, and skill and a lot more on luck.

[more to come in next post]...

[Antihero]

[continue]...

If you want to setup a minefield, you should make it fair and force the scum to navigate through it as well. I suggest maybe using bombs and weak roles.

Whatever is it though, I think there should be a purpose to all these open game proposals.

[drmyshottyizsik]

The Macho townie does not die if protected, he just isn't protected...
This game centers around multiple townies. Also the Role Cop/Doctor doesn't have to use both abilities in one night.
I think the different use of townies is a different take on townies when mixed with the rolecop/doc.

Also I was thinking that maybe if the role cop investigated a townie then he would have the choice of telling the person what type of townie they are.

[gandalf5166]

The Macho townie does not die if protected, he just isn't protected...
This game centers around multiple townies. Also the Role Cop/Doctor doesn't have to use both abilities in one night.
I think the different use of townies is a different take on townies when mixed with the rolecop/doc.

Also I was thinking that maybe if the role cop investigated a townie then he would have the choice of telling the person what type of townie they are.

Thus making him confirmable?

BAD IDEA SON

[drmyshottyizsik]

I think it opens up a lot of WIFOM. .Because if mafia is rolecopped(mafia always comes back as vanilla) Then they can try to confirm them selves... And each day claim the doc protected them. And the only way to stop that is if the cop/doc claimed...

[Olinea]

Operating Room

MAFIA

2

Mafia Goons

1

Mafia Roleblocker

TOWN

3

Doctors

6

Vanilla Townies

Special Mechanics:

~If 2 or more Doctors target the same person, that person dies.

Can I get more opinions on this? I thought it seems kind of like a Fire & Ice variant, so is there a way you think it could be "fixed"?

Make it 7 VTs and it's ready to run.

Are Open setups able to have 13 players? I thought it was supposed to be limited to 12.

[Equinox]

Are Open setups able to have 13 players? I thought it was supposed to be limited to 12.

Open games don't have that limit, AFAIK. Picking Simplicity, for example, is 20 players.

[Hoopla]

Lights Mafia

6x

Lights-On Townies

1x

Lights-On/

Off Goon
1x Lights-Off Goon

~~

- Day Start
- Each Townie has a light they can turn off any time during the day. Once they turn it off, it stays off.
- The Lights-Off Goon can only kill Townies who's lights are Off.
- The Lights-On/Off Goon can choose to make a Lights On or Off kill. Whichever she picks, her kill has to match the townie's light.
- Townies can't turn their lights off during twilight or night.

[Olinea]

Lights Mafia

6x

Lights-On Townies

1x

Lights-On/

Off Goon
1x Lights-Off Goon

~~

- Day Start
- Each Townie has a light they can turn off any time during the day. Once they turn it off, it stays off.
- The Lights-Off Goon can only kill Townies who's lights are Off.
- The Lights-On/Off Goon can choose to make a Lights On or Off kill. Whichever she picks, her kill has to match the townie's light.
- Townies can't turn their lights off during twilight or night.

If the Lights-On/Off Goon is lynched Day 1, can't all Townies leave their lights on and the scum get no nightkill, therefore giving the Town 6-1 on Day 2? Doesn't that equal 5 lynches?

[hitogoroshi]

Maybe have the Lights-Off Goon as a backup Lights On/Off?

[Herodotus]

Maybe have the Lights-Off Goon as a backup Lights On/Off?

That would entirely defeat the purpose of making them otherwise be Lights-Off only, as there's no tracker, watcher, roleblocker, etc.

The point is town and scum outguessing each other, but Olinea is right that there's a chance the town will be far, far ahead at the end of day 1. What if the mafia started as goons, and assigned the lights-off and lights-on/off roles between them on night 1?

[ortolan]

9 players maybe?

2 Mafia Goons
1 Innocent Child
1 Watcher
5 Townies

That would solve the problem of Mafia getting an automatic 3p endgame just by openly sacrificing themselves, and I'm sure it improves balance, too. I'd much rather do 9p instead of 11p, though, since if an 11p has scum lynched Day 1, then that creates a sucky game.

mm yes, that might be better

[chesskid3]

it's the same as the standard newbie setup being a basically autotown win if the rber dies N1.
Don't get lynched d1. >_>