American Gods Mafia - Game over

[farside22]

VOTE: Farside

Fuck it, I'm not electing anyone today, because Farside is right on some of my townreads, and I'm not trusting them until I see a flip.

No I'm not moving this vote.

No I'm not "explaining" it - if you can't see the shit play all game, you're blind.

OMGUS vote in progress.
Please do not disturb.

Who called Agar town again? Llama you want to give a reason yet?

[Kublai Khan]

Okay, that post was seriously scummy. Rush the day? CMON KK.

MagnaofIllusion is 4/7. L-3.

If we're going to dance, let's slow this foxtrot down to a waltz.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama you want to give a reason yet?

I want to watch this for a little bit, but yes reason is coming. It will be worth the wait.

[Jahudo]

”You’ll excuse me for a moment, gentlemen, but I find myself in deep and urgent need of a lengthy piss.”

Resurrection Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Apokalyptika (5) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, Seacore, OhGodMyLife

--------------

Sacrifice Vote Count

7 Votes Required

AGar (3) – A Gaggle of Geese, farside22, Seacore
Seacore (1) – Llamafluff
MagnaofIllusion (1) – OhGodMyLife

--------------

Lynch Vote Count

7 Votes Required

MagnaofIllusion (4) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, Seacore, farside22
AGar (1) – OhGodMyLife
Farside22 (1) - AGar

Not Voting (7):

LynchMePls, MagnaofIllusion, SGRaaize, Saint, WrathChild, Locke Lamora, Kublai Khan

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

A Gaggle of Geese (4) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, Seacore
Llamafluff (3) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22
Locke Lamora (3) – Seacore, OhGodMyLife, Saint
Farside22 (2) – A Gaggle of Geese, farside22
LynchMePls (2) – Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife
Seacore (2) – Seacore, Saint
OhGodMyLife (1) – OhGodMyLife
Saint (1) – Saint

Not Voting (21): LynchMePls x3, MagnaofIllusion x3, SGRaaize x3, Kublai Khan x3, AGar x3, WrathChild x3, Locke Lamora x3

Day 3 ends on April 12 at 6:00 PM EST

[Seacore]

Ah, I knew there was something I was going to explain but MoI's superhammer stopped me from being able to.

I never ever ever said there were two scum teams.
I never ever ever said that it was my most likely of scenarios
I never ever ever argued against an SK.
I did argue slightly against a Vig, but I'm still open to it.

I pointed out that you wrote off the possibility of two scum teams because you believed it couldn't be balanced in an 18 player game.
I pointed out that it would be easy to balance two scum teams in an 18 player game.
I then suggested, with suspicion, that scum-farside might have looked at her 4-5 team mates and said "there's no way there's another scum team this large, so there can only be one scum team".
If scum-farside did see that, I believe your post was a slip.

That being said, you've brought it up again, so that's making me feel a little better about the situation.

But in summary. I never said there were two scum teams. I just didn't like the smell of your rejection of the idea.

[farside22]

Just a foot note I made during BS stage. You pointed out 2 games that had 2 scum teams that were 18 players and scum won both games. So my statement was made on looking at balance and your comment hasn't proved my thoughts wrong. I figure it would be scum sided doing 2 scum teams.
I had an issue with Agar making more of the situation then was there yesterday. He is either scum budding Seacore or scum partners. Yeah, yeah scum either way. But when I see someone defend another and post it as though I'm making a general statement it makes me go hmmmmmmmm.

[Seacore]

I'm not going to get into a "are games with two scum teams balanced" conversation with you. Our opinions have no relevance in this game. Of the two games I quoted , one was a mini of 12 players, the other was a large of 25 (I think, how many was it faragaggle?) So 18 falls inbetween and precisely into neither.
Particularly in the large, it wasn't unbalanced, town played really badly, scum played really well.

But anyway,

your comment, which was

Looking at the amount of players that started the game I'm having trouble seeing how the mod could have 2 scum teams without be terrible unbalances.

So are we too few to have two scum teams or too many?
If two scum teams is always unbalanced, why the specific reference to the number of starting players?

This is what pinged my scumdar farside.

[farside22]

number crunch time.

18 players in this game. If there are 2 scum teams 3vs3 sounds like too much leaving 12 town and 2 teams shooting can means day 2 worse case 3vs3 and 9 town. From then on you either need to scum hunt well or hope the scum team fail. There is a ressurect for 2 players so that can bring the town odds up. But I feel looking at the numbers town will statistically loss do to the shooting.
If the mod does 2vs2 then it's unbalance for scum as town get's more of advantage. I only played one game where a mod did 2vs3 scum team. Scum won but it was well thought-out game. Another game had 3 vs 3 (forgot the number of players) that had a rez ability but you didn't know the alignment of the player you rezz'ed. Town won that game.
I just see 18 players and don't see a good balance for 2 scum groups. This is also why I see a SK. It depends on something I have a theory about since day 1.

[Seacore]

That's fair Farside, and to be honest, that's what I've been hunting for this whole time. Also, your willingness to bring it up again as i've already mentioned.
I disagree with your read on the 3v3, I think it's fine. It's swingy, but scum teams are pretty good at scum hunting since they have more info to work with. The resurrection improves it even more to make it less swingy. In fact, two scum teams make resurrection even stronger, since they are likely hunting each other (if town is losing) and will 'leave it to the other team' to kill the resurrected player.

But that's fine. I'm not trying to have a discussion where we outguess the mod.
I was trying to determine "why" you wrote off the two team possibility. You've given me your reason. I'm mostly satisfied. It took scum-farside days with a Night of QT to come up with a response that didn't reveal your scum-slip, but town-farside was probably just feeling unhelpful/misunderstanding what I was asking.

I'm completely done with this line of thought, are you?

[farside22]

^LOL I have a split personality. That's so awesome.

What's your thoughts on what Agar said yesterday about you and me interaction wise? Why do you think he is scum?

[Seacore]

On the topic of AGar.

Some of it is gut. He seems lurky and scummy with no real effort of scum hunting.
Some of it, I agree, is his reaction to my attack on you.
Hilariously, I think he could either be your scum buddy throwing a bus comment, or scum hunting for a future mislynch. Either way it didn't feel "I agree!" it felt opportunistic.

Also, have a look at his ISO #31, his thoughts on whether there is a protective role. That doesn't feel like town thinking about doctors. That feels like scum trying to puzzle out where the doc is.

He could also really be scum with MoI. His case on MoI? "His day phase wasn't impressive". I mean, there was more wrong with MoI's day one than that. But he sits there and the reluctantly gets off because a town read tells him to.

[Locke Lamora]

Need to do a bit of catching up here. I was pretty convinced Nexus/Fate was scum so I need to review my reads. Watcher seems like a pretty obvious choice for resurrection and MoI's hammer was pretty damn scummy.

Sacrifice: MoI
Resurrect: Apokalyptica

I'm not convinced that the backstage-thread interactions are entirely helpful the way they're playing out. Those who have been backstage are bringing this understanding back into thread with them which completely lacks context and it frequently seems to be getting used as a way to make votes without a whole lot of reasoning behind them. Llama's not exactly helping either right now, and to be quite honest I'm having a hard time working out who's genuine because of all these hidden interactions. I feel like I'm playing half a game of mafia. I definitely think we ought to rotate the membership a little to counteract the effects of this. With that in mind:

Elect Locke Lamora, Kublai Khan, Seacore

[AGar]

So apparently attacking bad logic by a player is now buddying.

Cool.

Eh, idgaf. OGML is town. GG is town. SGR is null, depending on who our second killer is/what his MO is. Could be scum, but not if it's scum + Vig. MoI, meh. Not impressed with his play. Probscum. Farside has declined as time passes, more likely to be scum than any other imo. Seacore is nullish. Part town read, but the fact that he pointed out a slip on Farside where he specifically mentioned 4-5 teammates bothers me suddenly. I dunno. Llama I'm null on. Can't help but see the lurkiness/general non-proactivity. But feel like there's something there. Or I'm biased because he's the only one not pushing for my death in some way. LMP has been really quiet, imo.

Game looked fun at first, but this backstage thing has really ruined my motivation to know that pretty much all decisions are being made in the night phase by a select few who we don't know if they're town or scum. Meh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MagnaOfIllusion

[farside22]

I see a many frustrated people in regards to the backstage, which isn't helping.
Here is the problem. Because of Ythill being scum many of us had to come up with a plan. Every plan so far in one shape or another has failed.
First was Ythill's plan, which was to vote on one player and put pressure on that player like we knew something and see how people reacted. After Ythill's death and flip I felt Llama was scum because of things Ythill said BS. I did come to a conclusion last night during BS that made me rethink the connection of Ythill/Llama but I don't really want to share that just yet.
Today was another plan to vote for Fate and have in go nuts and fake that we had information. Him willing to be the patsy screamed town to me. Fate also explain his OGML town view, which actually was well reasoned. Since Fate died last night. It threw me off but everyone in the BS agreed that MOI's hammer of Apok and his overall play was the scummiest.

[LimMePls]

This explain back stage stuff is bullshit.

We cannot have the game run by 4 people. Some stuff needs to come out. I don't care if it's Gaggle's clearing of me, or Llama's clearing of AGar or Gaggle's clearing of Llama, but this game should be played at least somewhat in the open. I don't trust llama and I don't trust farside. I'm not saying either or both are scum, but that's 50% of this Backstage team that I'd prefer not be there. The game is not going to be played completely back there.

Llama, I'm not saying out your results or whatever it is that you think you've found, but these one liners of "no, I'll say why backstage" are not helping this game's day game.

It's also is a fairly sneaky way to get voted back stage again.

SEACORE IS SCUM. Still.

[LimMePls]

This explain back stage stuff is bullshit.

SERIOUSLY.

I don't have any grasp of what's going on with this game. And everyone is just "hush-hush... backstage reasons... secret... vote me backstage...".

You know what. Fuck it. I'm protesting until I feel differently.

un-everything

It sounds like you backstagers are clearing each other which is great, but you haven't cleared everyone that's been voted backstage and it's possible that some bullshitting is going on. Right now it sounds like too many people are trying to rush the day, so first I'd like to hear from MagnaofIllusion before making any votes/sacrifices/ressurection/elections.

How about we play Mafia and not Big Brother, huh?

SO IS KUBLAI.

[LimMePls]

Elect Locke Lamora, Kublai Khan, Seacore

*cringe*

[LimMePls]

Elect: LMP, GG, farside
Vote: Seacore
Sacrifice: KK
Resurrect: Apok

[WrathChild]

Ok, we still have not figured out how to use the Resurrect mechanic yet. You vote for a person to resurrect THEN you vote who to be sacrificed. Regardless LMP hammered the resurrection, which I support. Hopefully Apok will come in with some good results. Also why are we sacrificing anyone BUT MoI? Seriously? The quick-hammer yesterday was the scummiest thing done all game. I love trading scum for confirmed town power roles. Let's get this done:

Sacrifice: MoI

I need to go back and check some things, assuming everything goes accordingly with the Sac-Revive.

[WrathChild]

I also agree with Agar, that the backstage thing kind of feels unfun, perhaps we should get a whole new group back there considering everytime they come up with a "plan" it gets foiled somehow. In fact, cosidering that, there is probably scum in the remaining backstagers.

[WrathChild]

So ...

Night 1 Backstage:

-LMP (Ythill, LynchMePls, Llamafluff, MagnaofIllusion,

Apokalyptika

, Kublai Khan, Locke Lamora, A Gaggle of Geese, OhGodMyLife, farside22, AGar)
-Farside (farside22, Seacore, SGRaaize,

Ythill

,

Apokalyptika

, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, Kublai Khan)

-Ythill

(Llamafluff, Seacore, Agar, SGRaaize,

Vezokpiraka

,

Apokalyptika

, Nexus, LynchMePls, OhGodMyLife)
-Gaggle (

Vezokpiraka

, WrathChild, AGar, Locke Lamora, Nexus,

Ythill

, A Gaggle of Geese)

Night 2 Backstage:

-Gaggle (Seacore, farside22, A Gaggle of Geese, OhGodMyLife,

Fate

, Saint, WrathChild, AGar)
-Farside (Seacore, farside22, A Gaggle of Geese,

Fate

, Kublai Khan, Saint, MagnaofIllusion,

Apokalyptika

)

-Fate

(Fate, OhGodMyLife, A Gaggle of Geese, farside22, Saint, WrathChild, AGar)
-LMP (Llamafluff, Kublai Khan, MagnaofIllusion)

I want to update this once we get an MoI flip (and HUGE FoS on anyone not voting to sacrifice him). I suspect scum had a strong presence backstage Night 1 and still had someone backstage Night 2. It appears that Farside may have brought up this concern earlier so I would like to think Farside would be the least likely to be the one backstage comprimising their plans. That leaves LMP and Gaggle. I think Gaggle has been riding townpants all game and am suspicious of them for that very reason, but I also find it extremely suspicious that LMP was elected backstage on a measley 3 votes, making him the most likely candidate for a scum-promoted BSer.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Stop being whiny about backstage. tia.

Agar's last post feels genuine though. LLama's gone downhill lately. I really want to be backstage with him to sort this out. I'm content to not go backstage ever again after this night, if 'someone new wants to join the fun'. Tbh it's not even that fun, it's very frustrating due to the way things have gone down.

Farside : I was referring to you saying unexplained votes were scummy, yet as town in Zoraster's game you didn't find my unexplained votes scummy there. I'm wondering

why

. I still find the cognitive dissonance between two town games to be irksome to say the least.

What else. OGML's so fucking town, but stop lurking plz and come back and give us a content post. Unlike Agar I feel KK's FUCK BACKSTAGE thing seems faked. Insincere.

I need to do a full re-read of this thread as I get the feeling at least one of my stronger town-reads are probably scum, but it's not OGML.

I actually don't think there's any scum between us/lmp/farside atm and I'll tell you why. Last night we had a 'plan', fate dying ruined this, gut says scum are less likely to have killed fate they could have used the plan to their advantage(also esp since fate was obv NOT the vig, although that could point to newbie scum or people unfamiliar with fate).

[A Gaggle of Geese]

what's 'riding townpants'

[A Gaggle of Geese]

also hold the fucking phone and NO ONE HAMMER MOI just yet or anything retarded

[WrathChild]

what's 'riding townpants'

Acting like confirmed town.

What do you think about LMP being your BS leak?