[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Hoopla]

Nomination Mafia

8x Vanilla Townies
3x Mafia Goons

- Nightless
- On odd days, normal lynching mechanics apply
- On even days, a nomination mechanic applies to the lynch. At the start of the Day, Mafia get to select any three players (including themselves) to be available to be lynched. The mod announces who the nominated players are for this day, then everyone (including the three nominated) can only place votes on those three players, until one is lynched.
- Mafia can Daytalk
- Town cannot no-lynch, as such, a plurality lynch rule applies at deadline if town can't decide.

~~

This set-up means mafia need three odd-day mislynches to win (+1 for any time they lose a Goon on an even day). The town was given 2 extra townies (over 3:6 nightless) to compensate for mafia potentially controlling even days. Nominations will be tricky for mafia to decide, though - they can secure a mislynch by nominating three townies, but they could gain a lot of town points by nominating themself, however, that runs the risk of losing a teammate unnecessarily. Scum will be keen to dump wifom on as many conclusions town make from the nomination choices, but there is potentially a lot of information to be gleaned from who scum elect to be lynched.

[GreyICE]

Optimal play: No one votes on even days. Lynch is decided by random.org.

Scum have a 1/3 chance to lynch themselves if they stick themselves in pool, confirm town if they don't.

Optimal scum play: keep adding one more group of town to the 'masons' every kill period.

Better mechanic - each goon gets a 1 shot ability where they nominate three players on one day. Whichever one of those players gets the most votes during the day is lynched.

[Hoopla]

Optimal play: No one votes on even days. Lynch is decided by random.org.

Scum have a 1/3 chance to lynch themselves if they stick themselves in pool, confirm town if they don't.

How do town know how many townies scum have nominated to be lynched? There is no way to confirm town in this game.

[GreyICE]

Optimal play: No one votes on even days. Lynch is decided by random.org.

Scum have a 1/3 chance to lynch themselves if they stick themselves in pool, confirm town if they don't.

How do town know how many townies scum have nominated to be lynched? There is no way to confirm town in this game.

Mechanic change:

Instead of submitting a night kill, the scum submit three names. Random.org selects one. The other two are confirmed town, that one is killed. Every night after that, the scum choose an additional person. That person becomes confirmed town, but joins the list of people who might die.

Would town be favored in an 8:3?

[Herodotus]

@Grey: why take the skill out of the game?

Also, what happens when the scum submit their own name?
At 1:2 Lylo? (Even at 2:3 Lylo, 2 townies are confirmed.)

[GreyICE]

@Grey: why take the skill out of the game?

Also, what happens when the scum submit their own name?
At 1:2 Lylo? (Even at 2:3 Lylo, 2 townies are confirmed.)

@Herodotus: All mechanics that involve choices should be modeled as if the mechanic is used in a very certain manner, then see if this manner is the optimal to use it.

See: East of Eden mafia, where a bunch of people had a skill that could do like 8 different things or more. They all used it to cop people's alignments.

If the scenario above is unfavorable to the town, adding scum choice to the matter doesn't improve things.

[Herodotus]

You don't seem to understand Nomination Mafia. There are no confirmed townies in it. You created that idea yourself, and that's why your "scenario" is so easy for the town to win.

[Hoopla]

Optimal play: No one votes on even days. Lynch is decided by random.org.

Scum have a 1/3 chance to lynch themselves if they stick themselves in pool, confirm town if they don't.

How do town know how many townies scum have nominated to be lynched? There is no way to confirm town in this game.

Mechanic change:

Instead of submitting a night kill, the scum submit three names.

This is what it is already, though. Scum don't get a night kill in a Nightless game. Day 1 is lynch 1. When that lynch is done, we go to Day 2 for lynch 2. The nightkill has essentially been traded in for scum picking 3 players in the game, and town choosing who dies. Obviously nominated townies will gain town credit, as scum have less incentive to name themself in the three players, hence why nominating themselves sometimes could be beneficial. Scum can submit 3 townies, 3 scum or any other combination of town/scum to prevent confirmed townies.

[GreyICE]

Exactly.

Now consider this: You've essentially created an 8:3 game with a weird kill mechanic.

Is that balanced? For reference, Friends and enemies has 3 scum, 3 masons, and 6 town I believe. Even if the scum admit they're masonizing their kills, the scum are going to win handily.

[Eddard Stark]

Friends and enemies isn't nightless though is it?

[Faraday]

And yeah, it looks decently balanced I think. Since town can't no lynch, anyway it looks like the wifom would be fun. (looks like a fun game from the scum pov too I think)

[gandalf5166]

Friends and enemies isn't nightless though is it?

No, but ICE's point is that even days are essentially the mafia kill.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Comparing that to a kill seems extremely unfair and not at all accurate, to me, but okay.

[gandalf5166]

Comparing that to a kill seems extremely unfair and not at all accurate, to me, but okay.

Yeah, I'm not really sure that I agree, but that was his point.

[Lelouch VI Britannia]

I'll /pre in what spot is the game gonna be held

[GreyICE]

Friends and enemies isn't nightless though is it?

Neither is this game, once you realize that the 'mechanic' is a cleverly disguised night kill.

As for it not being a NK, well, if the mafia NK was "Submit a list of 3 players, and random.org will kill one" it'd still be a NK. This makes the town kill one rather than random.org, but that's not much of an improvement, overall.

[Hoopla]

Friends and enemies isn't nightless though is it?

Neither is this game, once you realize that the 'mechanic' is a cleverly disguised night kill.

As for it not being a NK, well, if the mafia NK was "Submit a list of 3 players, and random.org will kill one" it'd still be a NK. This makes the town kill one rather than random.org, but that's not much of an improvement, overall.

It could be interpretted that way, but realistically, even days act more like a lynch than a nightkill, because towns generate an increased amount of information from it, and have more of a say over who dies than a typical nightkill, especially since scum will sometimes feel compelled to include themself as a possible lynch.

We played a slightly modified ratio of this game on Marathon Day - 2:5 with the same mechanic on even days, and it was pretty successful. There is a fun wifom element to the game; would scum put one/two of themselves up for lynch to look more town later in the game? Or would they put up three townies to buy a guaranteed mislynch? There is a give and take between offering the town more chances to lynch you (putting yourself up for nomination) which helps avoid odd-day lynches, or choosing to avoid even day lynches (by nomming 3 townies), which increases your chance of being lynched on odd days. It's a delicious game of wifom.

[GreyICE]

At 2:5 it works much better because it's very friggin dangerous to create 3 confirmed town in a 2:5 setup. You'd commit suicide essentially. If you get a town lynch day 1, then choose 3 town day 2, you literally have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum on day 3 if you assume this to be true. With one dead scum, the other follows pretty fast.

However at 8:3, it's highly optimal to use it like a night kill early on. I think that it'll degenerate into mostly that, especially if the town realizes it's most likely killing a townie, and gets apathetic on even days.

If you do run it, shorten even days to 1 week.

[Empking]

9p Cop Maker

2 Mafia Goons

2 Cop Makers (Turn other players into Cops (doesn't work on Cop Makers))
5 Vanilla Townies

[Tragedy]

More accurately enough, Vanilla Townies' would most likely win this game if they were all accurately cops.

[GreyICE]

Goons have to be able to be made into cops.

[Tragedy]

Pretty much it makes it imbalanced, there.
More favorable into Town and Mafia, unless the Cop Makers were dead by D2.

[GreyICE]

Hmm

If a cop maker attempts to recruit a goon, they die.

NAR, kill happens before recruit, so if a cop maker is killed, they recruit no cops.

[Empking]

I'm not sure how balanced it is but its important to note that there will be no investigations N1. If they lynch a townie D1 then its unlikely that more than one Cop will be recuited N1 (For each Cop recruitor they have 3/7 people that simply can't be (essentially) recruited and then you add in the other player's night actions.) I'm more worried about it being too scum favoured.

[Tragedy]

A 'Cop Maker' is like a Weak Doctor now. Except it makes people to becoming Cops.
By then, it's obviously more better than a Weak Doctor now...