American Gods Mafia - Game over

[WrathChild]

Has anyone ever seen caught scum claim SK? How did it work for them when they did?

Yep, it worked out.

I have done it and it has won me the game. I'm exceptional though I guess. Hito did it in the recently completed court of the gods. Mine was in karma mafia.

See? I've done it as well and I suspect another player is doing it in another game I'm in right now too.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI: did you think Fate's softclaiming was any more genuine than usual (ie. not very)? Can you explain again why Apok's flip made you think Fate was town? I'm not sure I understand the reasoning the first time round.

Fate’s soft-claiming was on par with the norm IMO … no way for scum to tell if he’s serious or not. See Blackest Night where he hinted at being a Cop as a Gunsmith.

As for the read based on the Apok flip I’ll detail it as concisely and clearly as possible.

Fate replaced into a not great slot (Nexus).

He identifies Apok, a player who is a low contributor (aka possible lurking scum) immediately as scum and gets Town to run him up.

If Apok had flipped scum gut would have said Fate was his scum partner who sacrificed him for insta-Town cred by cutting lose a weaker player. The exact sort of play some people have been accusing me of doing in regards to Saint.

Yet Apok flipped Town. Thus my gut said Fate was more likely to be Town overcompensating for his slot’s early play.

[WrathChild]

Just in case anyone is going to get any ideas here, I'm just making a point. Saint claiming something does NOT make it true. The fact that MoI just swallowed it up made him confirmed scum in my eyes. Hell Saint already claimed six different things today, why are we supposed to believe that he's SK and not lying scum?

Are you being serious here? Because this is so illogical I don’t even …

Players facing immenint death via Lynch (or in this case Sacrifice) don’t lie when claiming scum (AKA non-Town) after claiming a non-scum Power-role.

The only question is if he’s in fact lying Mafia hoping to get leashed as a Serial Killer

. Given that no-one so far has counter-claimed his shot on Ythill I doubt very much he isn’t an SK.

Your statement here is ludicrous as it throws all semblences of logic out the window. It’s either scummy or stupid … not sure which.

See my post @KK. Saint is not sacrificed even though he is at the majority. He sees he can still weasel out. My point is and you even confirm it yourself as a possibility AFTER I grilled you for it. There is a DISTINCT possibility that Saint is lying Mafia, the fact that you did not even consider it tells me you already know that he is not. Then you tell me it's FailCakes logic when you even used the same logic in the above post.

[MagnaofIllusion]

See my post @KK. Saint is not sacrificed even though he is at the majority. He sees he can still weasel out. My point is and you even confirm it yourself as a possibility AFTER I grilled you for it. There is a DISTINCT possibility that Saint is lying Mafia, the fact that you did not even consider it tells me you already know that he is not. Then you tell me it's FailCakes logic when you even used the same logic in the above post.

No ... what's fail if your logic that following Occam's Razor that Saint is in fact a Serial Killer means I'm scum.

The chances he is fake-claiming Mafia are minimal because at any minute whoever killed Ythill could counter him. Yet it hasn't happened. Odds are, given his push on Ythill Day 1, that he is Ythill's killer.

And thus NOT POSSIBLY MAFIA ALIGNED WITH YTHILL! Given Llama's point about Ythill's flip the chances of Two full scum groups are VERY small. Thus Serial Killer fits logically with Saint's play.

But continue to scum it up clinging desperately to the logic you are floating. You've doing a great job undueing the hard work Ythill did distancing form you. If OGML and Seacore weren't more obv-scummy I'd be inclined to follow LMP and wagon you instead.

[Kublai Khan]

We could, of course, take the smartest course of action.

Lynch confirmed anti-town player Saint. That reduces our night-kills to 1.

Day 4 + 11 players + 2 (1 lynch + 1 NK) = plenty of opportunity to use our 2 revival/sacrifices better.

In fact...

Vote: Saint

[OhGodMyLife]

Haven't we established that Saint is already being sacrificed? He's as good as dead. Stop obfuscating and lets get an actual lynch done.

I'm willing and able to wagon any of these three players to death:
Seacore
Magna
Kublai

[Saint]

Well, you all can lose the only person in the game to have pegged scum.
I just regret that I am an SK and not town, because I have a good inclination of multiple scum.

[Seacore]

Has SGR been prodded? If so he needs to be replaced.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

if we lynch saint and don't sacrafice can moi confirm himself via an extra kill? yeah? he should be able to right?

[farside22]

OGML: Why would you vote for any of the 3 you mentioned????
Share info and explain.

Saint: Who is scum in your view and why?

I know longer feel MOI is 100 % scum it's more 70% along with theory. I read thru his responses and although I disagree with Llama on some things I did forget about other things in the game that gives me pause.

I still find OGML sliding through this game without a blip and it's bugging the crap out of me. Seacore and KK are my main scum suspects.

unvote:
vote: Seacore

MOI's role can be provable. He watched Fate (although I disagree with his reasoning) it was proven. Saint is claim SK (which I expected) I still think there is an off shoot of scum gaining the role that MOI is claiming and his name claim (although I'm probably more paranoid) may be fake. I still don't like a few things from him, but I don't feel his lynch should be today.

[LlamaFluff]

if we lynch saint and don't sacrafice can moi confirm himself via an extra kill? yeah? he should be able to right?

If we could unsacrafice yeah. I thought we arent allowed to though. If we can unsacrafice its obviously the right move to lynch Saint and sacrafice Sea to bring Apok back

Farside realizes now! Yay. We can still kill off two scum!

@KK - It takes a full night phase for the dead to come back in the game. Reviving Apok now allows him to submit a N4 action, if we wait its not going to be until N5 or later. The longer the game goes, the better it is to bring back good over strong-PR players.

@OGML - Sea lynch?

@Sea - Claim, you are at L-2 with at least two players showing intention to vote you (saint and OGML). Deadline is coming up fast, I dont want a slapdash deadline lynch.

[Seacore]

Yeah, fair enough.

I'm Sam Black Crow, I'm Human, I'm one of my favourite characters in the book, oh, and I'm a Commuter. I commute on prime numbered nights, which I thought was a pretty cool little twist given the theme.

That's what my little fake soft claim was about during day 2. About watching and investigating, etc. I was trying to pull a NK. Maybe I got one? Given there was only one kill.

Hang on....

Saint. You're claiming SK. You're claiming the Ythill kill. Have I missed (granted I've been skimming because of RL shit) where you claimed your N2 target? You said back when you were still fake claiming that you visited Fate. Did you? Was that the person you killed N2?

Anyway, apart from that, there's not much to my claim. I'm safe again tonight, but if I'm still alive N4 I could probably use a protect...

[A Gaggle of Geese]

i still think seacore is town although i was expecting a vanilla claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well, you all can lose the only person in the game to have pegged scum.

AtE in full effect … but let me ask you a question.

Was your shot at Ythill 100% based on a scum read? If so why did you shoot Fate. Or was your Ythill shot made to eliminate a strong player (regardless of alignment)?

--

if we lynch saint and don't sacrafice can moi confirm himself via an extra kill? yeah? he should be able to right?

If the SK kill is not a factional ability then yes I should be able to make a kill tonight if Saint is lynched. Given that we want to bring Apok back for N4 action who would you suggest we Sacrifice in Saint’s place?

--

I'm Sam Black Crow, I'm Human, I'm one of my favourite characters in the book, oh, and I'm a Commuter. I commute on prime numbered nights, which I thought was a pretty cool little twist given the theme.

In that case I’d like you to address some quotes you have said regarding my claim.

In summary. The claim is fine.

MoI - For the stated reasons ie hammer, convoluted claim and the way he's been playing.

1. Please explain what about my claim changed between 79 and 86 that took if from a fine claim to a convoluted one.
2. Please explain how you find my claim to be convoluted in light of your own claim which operates based of Prime Numbers? Given the ‘cool little twist’ you had in your role-pm why is the twist to my role suddenly convoluted.

You said back when you were still fake claiming that you visited Fate. Did you? Was that the person you killed N2?

The following quote highlights that Saint visited Fate. Otherwise he would not have included the bolded portion -

but MoI might not be lying

because I chose to go with myself being unroleblockable (50% like I said) last night, and uninvestigatable by dt, so here is information there is for sure a cop/rolecop (50% again on being un-dt-checked).

He couldn’t have questions about whether I was lying or not if he hadn’t actually visisted Fate as I saw him do.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

probs kk.

I don't think SK kill counts as a factional abillity usually, btw, although my data on that is limited admittedly.

[AGar]

I don't think SK kill counts as a factional abillity usually, btw, although my data on that is limited admittedly.

So you think that MoI would inherit it? Because I'm not in agreement with this, to be frank. I'd consider an SK's kill a factional ability for the third party.

[Jahudo]

”Good morning, lady. The battle will start soon now.”
“How do you know?”
“I am Macha, of the Morrigan. When war comes, I can smell it in the air. I am a war goddess, and I say, bladd shall be spilled this day.”

SGRaaize has failed to post after being prodded and will be replaced.

Resurrection Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Apokalyptika (9) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, Seacore, OhGodMyLife, Locke Lamora, LynchMePls, AGar, MagnaofIllusion

Not Voting (4):

SGRaaize, Saint, Kublai Khan, WrathChild

--------------

Sacrifice Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Saint (8) – WrathChild, AGar, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, Seacore, farside22, OhGodMyLife, Locke Lamora
Kublai Khan (1) – Saint
Seacore (1) – Llamafluff

Not Voting (3):

A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize, Kublai Khan

--------------

Lynch Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Seacore (5) – LynchMePls, Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife, MagnaofIllusion, farside22
MagnaofIllusion (4) – AGar, A Gaggle of Geese, Seaore, WrathChild
WrathChild (1) – Saint
Saint (1) – Kublai Khan

Not Voting (2):

SGRaaize, Locke Lamora

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Farside22 (6) – A Gaggle of Geese, LynchMePls, WrathChild, Saint, farside22, Locke Lamora
Llamafluff (6) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, WrathChild, Kublai Khan, Locke Lamora
A Gaggle of Geese (5) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, Seacore, LynchMePls
Locke Lamora (5) – Seacore, OhGodMyLife, Saint, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion
-----
LynchMePls (3) – Llamafluff, LynchMePls, MagnaofIllusion
Seacore (2) – Seacore, Saint
Kublai Khan (1) – Kublai Khan
OhGodMyLife (1) – OhGodMyLife

Not Voting (10):

SGRaaize x3, AGar x3, WrathChild x1, OhGodMyLife x1, MagnaofIllusion x1, Kublai Khan x1

Day 3 ends on April 12 at 6:00 PM EST

[LimMePls]

I know nothing about flavor, so no idea what the prime number buisness is.

1. Please explain what about my claim changed between 79 and 86 that took if from a fine claim to a convoluted one.
2. Please explain how you find my claim to be convoluted in light of your own claim which operates based of Prime Numbers? Given the ‘cool little twist’ you had in your role-pm why is the twist to my role suddenly convoluted.

x2. I'm not buying the claim.

[Kublai Khan]

Timeline..

Start of Game: March 2nd, 2011

Post by chesskid3 in the Mafia Discussion forum about a prime number vig role: April 1st, 2011
Link

Seacore claiming to be a prime-number commuter: April 6, 2011

I'm Sam Black Crow, I'm Human, I'm one of my favourite characters in the book, oh, and I'm a Commuter. I commute on prime numbered nights, which I thought was a pretty cool little twist given the theme.

unvote
Vote: Seacore

[WrathChild]

Yeah, fair enough.

I'm Sam Black Crow, I'm Human, I'm one of my favourite characters in the book, oh, and I'm a Commuter. I commute on prime numbered nights, which I thought was a pretty cool little twist given the theme.

That's what my little fake soft claim was about during day 2. About watching and investigating, etc. I was trying to pull a NK. Maybe I got one? Given there was only one kill.

Hang on....

Saint. You're claiming SK. You're claiming the Ythill kill. Have I missed (granted I've been skimming because of RL shit) where you claimed your N2 target? You said back when you were still fake claiming that you visited Fate. Did you? Was that the person you killed N2?

Anyway, apart from that, there's not much to my claim. I'm safe again tonight, but if I'm still alive N4 I could probably use a protect...

The hitchhiker chick?

[Seacore]

Yes, the hitchhiker chick

MoI, from memory I believe when I said the claim was fine, I was referring to the connection between character and power. That was the main point farside was objecting to your claim on. Also, complex role "copying the powers of those who have recently been lynched the day before" is not the same as a role that has a standard name and just acts on an interesting timing mechanic. Commuter is a standard, if infrequently used role, it generally acts on odds or evens. I don't think it makes it that different or more complex to act on Primes, it just ties it in with the mysticism of the setting.

LMP big surprise you don't believe me.

KK, okay, I'll say that I didn't see that post in mafia discussion, which is true but I don't expect you to believe me, but lets move on.

Let's say I'm lying. Which of these two is true?

1) I'm scum with Gaggle. We discussed the power. Either I actually have the power role, after which he was inspired to create a vig using the same mechanic. Or he told me about his idea with the vig and I created a fake claim from that idea. Either way here Gaggle is also scum, do you believe this is true?

2) I'm scum, Gaggle isn't and I saw that a player in this game came up with the idea for a role based on Primes and then decided to copy that power, despite the fact that that player could say "hey, I just made that up the other day, are you copying me?"

WC, yes, the hitchhiker chick.

[Saint]

this has all been a gambit, I'm really just a vigilante
sup WC scum

p.s. sorry I killed you Fate, I'll probably be joining you soon

[Seacore]

That's a pretty stupid gambit.

Hi I'm an SK, based on my actions and role I'm completely indistinguishable from a vig, but I'm declaring myself anti town

*scum and town alike move to kill player*

Actually! I'm a vig! Now I've learned something!

Seriously? What has this gambit informed you of?

[LlamaFluff]

Saint is just lulzy at this point.

I still say the lynch of the basically-BP claim is the right one here. Still outright refuse to lynch MoI at this point. I actually dont see the play from Sea as play of a Bulletproof (essentially) player. As BP, you want to draw the NK hard and fast, especially if you really are "not" BP on night four. Sea just has coasted and flipped between lynches for the most part, and it wasnt until he started taking some heat that he started to crumb a power. I see a BP claim to try and take control of the game, and heavily throw down some information hints right out the gate day two. He did almost pure opposite of that. Actions dont match up with powers, I would be ok with a hammer at this point.

[farside22]

hmmmmm not sure about Seacores claim. KK went out of his way to disprove it, but doesn't have a reason so far stated in game why he thinks Seacore is scum.