American Gods Mafia - Game over

[LlamaFluff]

I dont like KKs reasoning either, but it doesnt make the claim/behavior add up any less.

[Seacore]

What? Day 1 I wasn't immune, so I waited until Day 2 to breadcrumb. I tried to make it look like a genuine if poorly done breadcrumb of investigator. Both Saint and Farside spotted it and I've got a feeling I did actually pull N2 kill. At the very least it's a possibility, so to say that I didn't play my PR properly is a bit premature.

I think that might be why MoI and LMP, and you to an extent (as all three of you are scum reads for me) have come after me so hard today, because you failed to NK me last night.

As for the accusations of coasting.
1) I'm not a strong scum hunter, my record for finding scum is pretty damn shocking. I'm better at organising, ala SAIII. But have a look at some of my past games, this is pretty much as good as my scum hunting gets.
2) RL is an absolute bitch at the moment, something that Faraday can attest to. I'm not pulling my weight at all in running aSoS mafia.

[Seacore]

Anyway, none of that is going to persuade Llama.

So, prior to death, I will say that my list of scum to down is as follows (assuming Saint and I die today)

SCUM
MoI
LMP
OGML
Llama
SGR
Farside
AGar
Wraith
KK
Gaggle
Locke
TOWN

[LlamaFluff]

I know its hard to crumb a power early, but a few awkwardly worded phrases about how you "will wait to look at someone until that night" can work wonders. Even if you are "not good" at scumhunting, you really did nothing in the early game that would draw a kill, not even a try really. You just sheeped people more then anything else, which does nothing to draw a kill, and actually does the exact opposite.

[Seacore]

I didn't want to draw a kill N1. I think that is fair and obvious.

Day 2 I had to compete with Fate for limelight. Like that was ever going to happen. So without being able to be the loudest. And without being able to really nail down scum and be a threat that way, I grabbed an opportunity when I found it and breadcrumbed an investigation role.

And there's a chance it worked. Saint has claimed the only kill last night, so we're missing a scum kill. (Or saint is mafia and being weird which can't be completely discounted but is unlikely).

So given that I may have been successful, I think it's a little bit rich for you to be saying I didn't do it right, just because I didn't do it your way.

[LlamaFluff]

I didn't want to draw a kill N1. I think that is fair and obvious.

Always forget that it hasnt been prime since the 19th century

Day 2 I had to compete with Fate for limelight. Like that was ever going to happen. So without being able to be the loudest. And without being able to really nail down scum and be a threat that way, I grabbed an opportunity when I found it and breadcrumbed an investigation role.

I guess my thing is you didnt even try to push a case. You just danced around a little bit of info, which got overshadowed by my cramming it down peoples throats that AGar was town.

And there's a chance it worked. Saint has claimed the only kill last night, so we're missing a scum kill. (Or saint is mafia and being weird which can't be completely discounted but is unlikely).

Or there was a doctor save.

So given that I may have been successful, I think it's a little bit rich for you to be saying I didn't do it right, just because I didn't do it your way.

Fair enough, but I dont see how what you did would likely have draw a kill over Fate taking the game over, and me wearing the neon sign that role info was present.

[Seacore]

I'm not saying I did draw a kill. I'm saying I may have. I'm objecting to the idea that a point against me is that I was really bad at drawing a kill when I may have.
And yes, I can't exactly compete with somebody who has an ACTUAL investigative result. I certainly didn't want to fake claim a result that would clear somebody, even somebody who I think is town, I just don't roll that way.

Also, I didn't have a case to push, I was bouncing around with some suspicions but every time I pointed at somebody, somebody else would clear them, usually using back stage as a justification.

And as the son of a maths teacher: 1 is not a Prime! (Flashbacks to a 9 year old Seacore arguing with his teacher on that point)
As a side note, I think the prime thing is pretty cute actually. Assuming a game doesn't go for way more days than is normal it works out as about the same as an odds or even mechanic.

[Seacore]

Also, just one more thing.

I think, and I could be wrong, but I think you may be implying that IF I'm town, I've been deliberately behaving in a slightly suspicious way as opposed to obv-town. That's not the case. I usually get found suspicious most of the game, often ending up as prime lynch candidate. I'm not happy about it, and it's something I am kinda working on.

[Jahudo]

”the finest line of poetry ever uttered in the history of this whole damn country was said by Canada Bill Jones in 1853, in Baton Rouge, while he was being robbed blind in a crooked game of faro.
George Devol, who was, like Canada Bill, not a man who was averse to fleecing the odd sucker, drew Bill aside and asked him if he couldn't see that the game was crooked.
And Canada Bill sighed, and shrugged his shoulders, and said 'I know. But it's the only game in town.”

Searching for a replacement for SGRaaize.

Resurrection Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Apokalyptika (9) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, Seacore, OhGodMyLife, Locke Lamora, LynchMePls, AGar, MagnaofIllusion

Not Voting (4):

SGRaaize, Saint, Kublai Khan, WrathChild

--------------

Sacrifice Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Saint (8) – WrathChild, AGar, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls, Seacore, farside22, OhGodMyLife, Locke Lamora
Kublai Khan (1) – Saint
Seacore (1) – Llamafluff

Not Voting (3):

A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize, Kublai Khan

--------------

Lynch Vote Count

7 Votes Required

Seacore (6) – LynchMePls, Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife, MagnaofIllusion, farside22, Kublai Khan
MagnaofIllusion (4) – AGar, A Gaggle of Geese, Seaore, WrathChild
WrathChild (1) – Saint

Not Voting (2):

SGRaaize, Locke Lamora

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Farside22 (6) – A Gaggle of Geese, LynchMePls, WrathChild, Saint, farside22, Locke Lamora
Llamafluff (6) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, WrathChild, Kublai Khan, Locke Lamora
A Gaggle of Geese (5) – A Gaggle of Geese, Llamafluff, farside22, Seacore, LynchMePls
Locke Lamora (5) – Seacore, OhGodMyLife, Saint, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion
-----
LynchMePls (3) – Llamafluff, LynchMePls, MagnaofIllusion
Seacore (2) – Seacore, Saint
Kublai Khan (1) – Kublai Khan
OhGodMyLife (1) – OhGodMyLife

Not Voting (10):

SGRaaize x3, AGar x3, WrathChild x1, OhGodMyLife x1, MagnaofIllusion x1, Kublai Khan x1

Day 3 ends on April 12 at 6:00 PM EST

[LimMePls]

Wait, why is 1 not a prime number?

[A Gaggle of Geese]

because primes are numbers whose only factors are 1 and themselves

[A Gaggle of Geese]

also because 1 is a unit
but you dont knwo what that means im guessing so

[Seacore]

Yes, my definition has always been, Primes have two factors, themselves and 1.
1 has only a single factor, making it a unit. And disqualifying it from being a Prime.

[Kublai Khan]

hmmmmm not sure about Seacores claim. KK went out of his way to disprove it, but doesn't have a reason so far stated in game why he thinks Seacore is scum.

Went out of my way... ? Farside22, really? When I read the prime number deal, I remember that I read something about it a couple of days ago. I did a search and found it.

I'd call it "going out of my way" if I went and researched another player's meta at a non-critical part of the game.

You're right that I didn't have a strong negative opinion of Seacore. But I don't believe in coincidences. Seacore read about a mechanic in the MD forum, then used it as part of his fakeclaim.

[Kublai Khan]

Zorblag (math whiz) explains that 1 isn't a prime number in the link I provided earlier.

[Seacore]

KK, while you're here, will you respond to me, rather than just to Farside?

Am I stupid and am borrowing from a scum buddy's idea?
Is my scum buddy stupid and posting an idea based on my (potentially fake) claim?
Or am I stupid and am borrowing from a town player's idea?

Because if I'm lying, somebody is being stupid.

[Seacore]

EBWOP

Oh wait, I see that you've canceled out one of those three options

So I'm either stupid and have borrowed from my scum buddy's idea
Or I'm stupid and have borrowed from a town in this game's idea

So I either was willing to link myself to my scum buddy or I made up a fake claim that I'm assuming Gaggle would remember posting and catch me on?

[Seacore]

Unless more people are willing to jump on MoI, who I still want lynched. I'm going to make a move.

Vote:LMP

I just ISO'd his 43 posts since he replaced in.

Many of them are rhetoric against me, he had a few points against me early on but since then it's largely been "Seacore is scum!"

Many of his other posts are fights with WC, who's a pretty easy target.

The remainder are fluff, like his prime number post, and *cringe*ing about other people's posts.

I've seen LMP in town mode. Look at aCoK for somebody that really took charge. Similar in No Exit Mafia. This is scum LMP.

There's also an interesting little bit in his big replacement post in which he whines at Ythill for derailing the Ghostlin wagon. If scum don't have Day talk that could easily be a little message for Ythill to jump back on a wagon that he'd support.

In short, lynch LMP, he flips town. OGML and MoI will show up as even scummier and then we'll have caught most of the scum.

[Seacore]

oops

unvote. Vote LMP

just in case that matters.

[Locke Lamora]

I know nothing about flavor, so no idea what the prime number buisness is.

1. Please explain what about my claim changed between 79 and 86 that took if from a fine claim to a convoluted one.
2. Please explain how you find my claim to be convoluted in light of your own claim which operates based of Prime Numbers? Given the ‘cool little twist’ you had in your role-pm why is the twist to my role suddenly convoluted.

x2. I'm not buying the claim.

Seacore: I can't get past this at the moment. Can you clarify whether or not you believe MoI's claim (not alignment, just the role) and why?

[Seacore]

Farside said the claim didn't fit, in relation to the character he said he was being a minor character and one of two and some other things.
I posted to say that the PR claim fit the character claim sufficiently. Seriously, look at the farside post directly before mine for the context of what I said.

I did not state, either way at that point, whether I believed the claim. I said that I still found MoI scummy, and that if the claim WAS real, it could still easily be a scum ability.
I don't usually go in for much 'out guessing of the mod' however we've seen some fairly straight forward powers. Tracker, Watcher, Commuter.
I would argue that Commuters are almost never 100% commuters, they are usually either Even-Nights, or Odd-Nights, or Active-on and then off. To me, making it Prime-Nights is a flavour touch, not complex mechanics.
So here we have MoI making a relatively complex role claim, others have argued that it doesn't fit and I've been swayed towards that, particularly in the face of aCoK in which I've seen some very convoluted fake claims.
The only other person to claim a complex power has been Saint.

In conclusion: MoI is scummy regardless of his claim. If his claim is true it fits a scum power set perfectly. However it's more convoluted than others and could likely be fake.

[Locke Lamora]

That's pretty much why I asked. You clarified that you thought the flavour fit, which I have no problem with, I agree there. I just couldn't see whether you a) actually believed his claim in its entirety and b) whether you thought that made him more likely town/scum. It's clear now that you're leaning away from believing it, and if it is true you think it's more likely to be a scum power, which leads me to: why would a Limited Universal Backup be more likely to be a scum power than town?

So your role would flip as 'Commuter' rather than any variant thereof? I'm thinking about this because I made the assumption that Tracker and Watcher were simply the normal roles in their standard definition, but we have no way of actually telling that until Apok comes back.

[AGar]

why would a Limited Universal Backup be more likely to be a scum power than town?

^ This

Apologies for being useless of late, but I'm lacking the grasp here. I want to see a flip, of MoI mainly, but Seacore will do as well. I don't know why, but I can't wrap my head around this one atm.

[Seacore]

Okay, you see it as a limited universal back up, I see it as a scum reward for mislynching PRs.

Maybe I was unclear. I think MoI is scum. Therefore if he's telling the truth about his power, I think it's a scum power. And, looking at that claimed power, I don't see how it's necessarily a town-only power. So, to clarify. I don't think his power makes him 'more scum'. I just don't think that, even assuming he's telling the truth about it, it makes him more town?

And yes, I will flip as Commuter. Not "modifed commuter' or 'prime number commuter' or anything else. Commuter.
But I'd still argue that my role is a standard definition Commuter. It's just the on-off that has been definied. Sometimes it's activated by choice, but it can't be two nights in a row. Sometimes it's even nights, sometimes it's odd nights. This time it's prime numbers.
If the game goes for 8 nights
Even night commuter N2, N4, N6, N8 = 4 nights
Odd night commuter N1, N3, N5, N7 = 4 nights
Prime night commuter N2, N3, N5, N7 = 4 nights

So it's the same, a little closer to odd night commuter obviously, but still, I wouldn't say the role would work differently, or need to be defined differently. The same way that getting the "cop" role doesn't tell you whether you'll get "Innocent v Guilty" "Mafia v Not Mafia" etc It's straight up Cop and the mod decides exactly how it's gonna work.

That's completely different to this "limited universal backup" claim.

[Locke Lamora]

Well, call it that if you want. If it's a scum Backup, it's still a Backup. The primary reward for scum mislynching PRs is that they've lynched a PR. My inclination is that a Backup is more likely to be a town power. My concern is that he's making it up entirely. Him telling the truth and being scum seems like the most unlikely scenario of all.

I don't think your Commuter claim is much of a variant on a basic Commuter, and I agree that MoI's claim is more complex than yours. However, I now have two main reasons to question the assumption that MoI's claim is overly complex for the setup:
1. The more I think about variations even within standard role names, the more I think it's entirely possible that 'Tracker' and 'Watcher' don't just mean the Normal game definitions. Apok's return will tell us more about this.
2. Saint's claim is still relatively complex and he has no reason to lie. So either he has claimed SK who has multiple percentage-based abilities just because he wants to screw with us a bit, or his claim is legit. The latter indicates that the complexity of the roles might be greater than I was assuming when I originally judged MoI's claim.

Tell me this: assuming that Limited Universal Backup is a 'standard' role, what about the variation that MoI has claimed do you think is particularly convoluted?