League of Legends (Old)

[scotmany12]

You're a very bad troll.

[JDodge]

the amount of fanboyism currently present in this thread is ri-fucking-diculous

[TheButtonmen]

where the skill level is considerably lower than DotA or HoN and probably DotA 2

[citation needed]

No invocator runes. No auto TP/Dagger. We can start from there.

How does that effect skill level?

Also your repeated claims of HoN being a competitive game amuse me.

[Otolia]

No invocator runes. No auto TP/Dagger. We can start from there.

How does that effect skill level?

Also your repeated claims of HoN being a competitive game amuse me.[/quote]
Positioning is key in the 'MOBA' genre. Having a Dagger (which was designed as a initiation mechanism but soon was called dagger of escape) is a huge advantage because it gives you mobility. The fact that everybody is able to have both free TP and free dagger kinda minimize the influence of good positioning, juking and both warding/counterwarding. Those abilities are given the invocator power.

Furthermore the fact that playing a lot of games gives perk is favoring players who play a lot. Thus slightly shifting the game towards those one. It's a very small advantage overall because of course everyone is able to pick them up but it doesn't nullifies it.

I don't know how you can argue that HoN isn't a competitive game. Stable servers/nodes, reconnection possibilities, replay system, matchmaking and public/IH AND CLEAN SHEET EVERY GAME are what makes a game competitive.

You're a very bad troll.

Right, and of course you are making the discussion go further in the good direction here ...

I have no interest in bashing LoL for the pleasure of it. I won't say you are a noob because you play LoL or that you would be a scrub if you would ever play HoN. I am just saying that LoL isn't a game worth of being showed as a model for the competitive gaming scene.

I wonder how I ended up arguing here

[Otolia]

Queueing as four is always a mixed bag. The random stranger you are forced to play with as your fifth ranges from the pleasant and competent to the complete drooling morons who probably have trouble eating because they can't quite recall what a tongue is for. Of the people we played with recently, this guy was by far the worst.

That's what you get for believing a free-to-play game is a good one.

/me out

Right, I started this. Oh god. I am ashamed, I have been trolling myself ....

BRB : Head Wall

[JDodge]

Positioning is key in the 'MOBA' genre. Having a Dagger (which was designed as a initiation mechanism but soon was called dagger of escape) is a huge advantage because it gives you mobility. The fact that everybody is able to have both free TP and free dagger kinda minimize the influence of good positioning, juking and both warding/counterwarding. Those abilities are given the invocator power.

Good warding is still extraordinarily important, as is good positioning and movement in general. You have no clue how many games I've lost lately because people decided that buying wards was pointless and then bitched constantly that we were losing after X got turbo-fed because they were ganking constantly.

Furthermore the fact that playing a lot of games gives perk is favoring players who play a lot. Thus slightly shifting the game towards those one. It's a very small advantage overall because of course everyone is able to pick them up but it doesn't nullifies it.

If you mean the persistent metagame, IE runesets, masteries, etc., the competitive scene starts at the point wherein you should have all of that stuff already.

I don't know how you can argue that HoN isn't a competitive game. Stable servers/nodes, reconnection possibilities, replay system, matchmaking and public/IH AND CLEAN SHEET EVERY GAME are what makes a game competitive.

HoN is a more complete product, yes. I don't believe anyone is arguing that HoN isn't competitive, more arguing that your point that LoL isn't competitive is bs.

You're a very bad troll.

Right, and of course you are making the discussion go further in the good direction here ...

I have no interest in bashing LoL for the pleasure of it. I won't say you are a noob because you play LoL or that you would be a scrub if you would ever play HoN. I am just saying that LoL isn't a game worth of being showed as a model for the competitive gaming scene.

I wonder how I ended up arguing here

Who is showing it as a model for the competitive gaming scene? You just came in and took a massive dump all over it for no discernible reason, using a complete lack of facts and logic. When asked to cite your sources re: the IEM you went "look it up" or something similar while also backpedaling on the issue of the furnishing of the prize funds.

Out of curiosity, have you tried LoL, and if so when?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I just had a game where I got my Q as Nasus with Sheen proc up to 900 damage by 20 minutes. I don't think I've had an easier farm... EVER.
Still lost though, thanks to a leaver and a Ezreal who sat a tower behind whatever one the rest of us were defending, and just ulted after every teamfight. His score at the end of a 50 minute game was 6/0/0, we called him out on being useless, and he replied:

lol look at my kdr and get good kid fuck you uninstall get a life fag

SOLOQUEUEEEEEEEEE

[AGar]

(LoL isn't in the IEM, I checked. Riot paid to be allowed to organize a tournament during the WC).

Source.

Riot finance almost all the prizes like every company does. But I don't know if it's the totality (like in the CeBit) or not. As for the IEM you can check ESL World.

Intel funds the prizes for most of the tournaments, with other sponsors chipping in, but Intel's the big one (Side note, Intel drops probably somewhere in the ballpark of $500K - $1M in eSports sponsorships a year). Blizzard doesn't put up money for the SC2 prize pool, Valve doesn't sponsor the CS prize pool. These are games that are picked up because people put a dedicated following into the game and the ESL administration sees it as a worthy endeavor to organize things for these games.

Spoiler: Slight rant contained within, slight bias in me never having played HoN

HoN vs. LoL is just going to kill both scenes in the end. Many people have pointed to the 1.6 vs. CS:S scenario, where 1.6 killed CS:S essentially but there is still a decent split, when I've talked to them about this, but the difference is 1.6 had an established base while CS:S just game in and people wanted the switch because it looks prettier. Both games coming on at similar times and vying for a split fanbase, and with DotA 2 looming in the near future, you're going to see one of two things happen.

1) HoN, LoL and DotA 2 will all be flashes in the pan, crumble and the scene will get zero attention. Very possible, as there are dedicated fanbases to each game, and dedicated developers behind each. Each game will vie for the top spot, and the outcome will be ugly. Sponsors will be hesitant to commit to one over the other as there is no stability in this kind of environment. Leagues will come and go, and it'll be hard to predict longevity.

2) One game will come out on top over the other two. DotA 2 has a solid team that has a lot of experience to draw from in designing a game for eSports behind it. HoN has an apparent hardcore base behind it. I know LoL has a lot of upside as a potential esport just from playing a few games, the free factor is bigger than anyone seems to imagine. Free to play is part of how QL managed to jumpstart the Quake scene. I could easily see MLG picking up one of the three either midway through the 2011 circuit or for the 2012 circuit, as WoW died because competitive WoW is nigh unwatchable. ESL's US branch is running a league right now as we speak with a $5k prize purse. This money is not coming from Riot, I can all but guarantee that. The game is a fairly easy to follow game, and similar to SC2, you can watch a match and be like "Yeah, this team is winning," while there are deeper things to understand as you get more accustomed to it, such as team comping, playing a champion well, etc etc (assuming these are also factors in HoN/DotA 2). The only thing holding LoL back, imo, is the fact that you have one map for 5v5. I don't know if HoN or DotA 2 have more map selection, but it could be something to potentially hold the game back.

There is a highly unlikely but still possible chance that the three games co-exist, but it doesn't often happen, and when it does, it usually marginalizes some of the competitive appeal of the different games to save face as a whole "genre".

Only time will tell, but I can say that it's got a lot of potential to be really ugly.

There is nothing that says explicitly that Riot paid IEM to put the game in, and ESL wouldn't waste the time of their stream just to put some second-rate game they felt unworthy in. If anything, I'd guess ESL used the invitational as a tester to see if it would be worth supporting LoL in the future.

Just because you personally think the game isn't worth being viewed as a competitive game doesn't mean that people are going to stop trying or that they should. You're part of the problem, not the solution. People who want to sit there and decry one game over another are the ones that the sponsors see and go "Gee, I dunno. There's too much of a torrent here."

[Otolia]

My main reproach to LoL is the way it's being marketed and it has nothing to do with my personal liking of the game. HoN was announced in the EMS on the 14th of January. At this point all the games were supposed to be decided. But on the 10th of February, LoL was added to the list. If you want to believe Riot don't have anything to do with is up to you. I am not that stubborn. I can't prove that Riot finances tournaments because there is absolutely no transparency in that matter.

I am not convinced that LoL compete on the same level as HoN or DotA and soon DotA 2. It's just absorbing a major part of the highly competitive playerbase (particularly in France - I am so depressed about that) due to the laughable amount of money that one can win. In the long run though, it won't matter. The playstyle are different and so is the playerbase. And when DotA 2 comes in, it will put more focus on HoN because it's already a more complete game (due to the release being last year)

Now if you ask me if LoL deserved to be awarded a GDC online award, the response is no. I don't want the game industry turning all flashy !

PS : I'm installing LoL right now ! JFF

[Knight of Cydonia]

So let me get this straight... all this time, you've been commenting on a game you haven't actually played.

[Otolia]

As if you needed to test something to have a thoughtful opinion on its competitive value and marketing policy

My first game where I wanted to kill myself in the lobby because I had no idea what to pick was a 0-4-2 defeat with Sona. I didn't quite understand that she was a spell spammer. I wonder who had the idea of this shop. It's really counter intuitive for former DotA player but I'll get use to it. The laning phase was boring. Like really boring. After that, I get caught numerous times because I had no idea what each hero did. I didn't end up with the worst score on my team. And there were surprisingly no griefer.

[Knight of Cydonia]

SO, because you went in blind, and picked one of the most boring champs, it was bad and you lost. Congrats.
What did you build on Sona, by the way?

[Nuwen]

I play Starcraft so clearly my E-peen is bigger.

word.

[Untrod Tripod]

I wonder who had the idea of this shop. It's really counter intuitive for former DotA player but I'll get use to it.

BZZZ

Try again.

[Otolia]

I don't know what I built on Sona. Philosophal stone I think. After that I win a 0-2-9 game with Sona and a 2-2-? with Ryze. Overall the laning phase is very slow paced, after that the game is kinda strange. The biggest problem though is the loading time. Like WTH !?

[scotmany12]

You're a very, very, very bad troll.

[Chronopie]

Did you play through the tutorials? or look at the recommended items?

(That's the bar along the top of the shop showing you some advised items for your hero. Not always the best choices, but they get the job done.)

[Otolia]

Did you play through the tutorials? or look at the recommended items?
(That's the bar along the top of the shop showing you some advised items for your hero. Not always the best choices, but they get the job done.)

I have two years of DotA and one and a half of HoN behind me so I can hold my s**t together in a game. I know more or less what to choose with what hero now that I have understand how the item system function. The main problem is the capacity of the heroes particularly the stealthed ones who are quite annoying. When you go against a hero you don't know you are pretty sure to be crushed. And because you can't play all unless you buy them all, you are poised to lack knowledge about some heroes, that's a flaw in the f2p system.

So far on 7 games only one was satisfactory. Others were utter stomp where either I or when of my teammates got crushed early game and the lack of team play deal the lethal blow. The fact that the map is small doesn't make it up for the extremely slow move speed.

Also I have not found a remake command which could be useful considering the ping I have by playing (between 200 and 300 ms)

[Chronopie]

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champions

List of every champion, their roles in a team, and abilities. (Follow the links)

[bv310]

What do you mean by remake command? If it's replay, you know we don't have that. If it's ping, try closing your background programs and lower your graphics. Especially turn off Shadows. That murders framerates for some reason.

Also, once you get a bit used to the game, the stealth champions become pretty easy to deal with.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Invest, what, 125 gold in a pink ward for your lane, or 400 gold for Oracle's Elixir. Congrats, as long as you're not being a fucking idiot and overextending your lane, you just hard countered most stealth.

[bv310]

Posting this here just to spite JD:

[JDodge]

my 30 kills were with half your deaths

[pickemgenius]

Invest, what, 125 gold in a pink ward for your lane, or 400 gold for Oracle's Elixir. Congrats, as long as you're not being a fucking idiot and overextending your lane, you just hard countered most stealth.

On this subject me/jd/scot/ut/fate 5v5d against Evelyn AND Shaco. Early game they were kind of a bitch(we did invest in wards immediately, at least I did in my lane, which was a slight hinderance build wise but w/e) Shaco actually kind of got a bazillion jack in the box kills because they were quite smart with placement(escape routes) so that ate us up(not so much me since I was Galio, and heavy MR is kind of req.) so at one point we were down an inhib and only had inner turrets on the other two lanes. At this point JD/UT/Scot wanted to surrender while Fate and I didn't. I invested in an Oracle(and didn't die the rest of the game) and we basically just raped their face for an easy win after the surrender vote failed. We all really pulled our shit together and took advantage of their mistakes, and snowballed from there. It was fun.

[Otolia]

What do you mean by remake command? If it's replay, you know we don't have that. If it's ping, try closing your background programs and lower your graphics. Especially turn off Shadows. That murders framerates for some reason.
Also, once you get a bit used to the game, the stealth champions become pretty easy to deal with.

Ping has nothing to do with framerate. I didn't traceroute the servers but I supposed it could be a problem between my home and the my provider server yesterday. Today I ping below 100ms.

Remake was a process created for the leagues in DotA (particularly DL). Because Telia (WC3 master server) didn't host any custom map we had to ping everyone before each game and remake (rehost the game) if the ping of some people were above 200ms.

Invest, what, 125 gold in a pink ward for your lane, or 400 gold for Oracle's Elixir. Congrats, as long as you're not being a fucking idiot and overextending your lane, you just hard countered most stealth.

Hard countered ? Absolutely not. They last 3 minutes and are revealed you put them (at least I think) and can also be countered.