Nintendo Mafia (Game Over)

[RedCoyote]

esurio, why don't you and your bloc take the day off and let me take point on this one? Just piggyback on me and we'll get some stuff done. No drama, no nothing.

I've even got two flavors to choose from: thilberry and cookies n' mb53.

[chkflip]

Which do you find more flavorful?

[Pinky and the Brain]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: thil

Spoiler: thil - Recent Posts

Right now my reads fit in with the group, and just listing them out would rehash what has already been said.

Since the two lynches we've had have both been town, I'm thinking the scum are among the people who are lurking (If you want to be a jerk and call me out on this, go ahead, it should make you look more town) but clearly all of them couldn't be.

Context:

espeonage at L-3.

General opinion would seem to be espeonage is scum, yet thil provides no reason for not voting, despite saying his reads fit in with the group. He also thinks scum are among the lurkers - an opinion not voiced strongly by anybody else (thus not really fitting in with the group). Who is he classifying as lurking anyway? In other words, a very vague and non-specific attack.

What I do with my vote is completely up to me, I don't think I want to use it yet.

He doesn't

think

he wants to use his own vote. What about voting with popular opinion? He admitted to having similar reads earlier. (See #26)

I'm just not confident in any vote that I could lay down right now. And I don't see how not-voting would be scummy, in fact, it would let the day go longer, and with more being said means more information for town. But if you want me to lay down a vote, give me a good person to vote, and exactly why I should.

See #33.

I've been reading the thread Ythan. I said, I'm not confident with a vote, so clearly all the previous cases weren't enough to convince me.

See #34.

Am I the only person that thinks Hohum is trolling?

I'm not even sure what he means here... is he calling hohum trolling town? Trolling scum?

I've been reading the thread Ythan. I said, I'm not confident with a vote, so clearly all the previous cases weren't enough to convince me.

vote: Hohum

I have never seen a more spontaneous vote and that does not sit well with me.

So, hohum makes this 'spontaneous' vote, thil makes a post, then 11 posts later decides to vote hohum without even mentioning him in the first post.

RC's post here also covers this pretty well.

Spoiler: thil - Past posts

Ok tragedy. Chill out about my "lurking" what else do you actually have on me to call me scum?

He later contradicts this by saying scum are lurking in #26 (in that aforementioned non-specific attack).

Tragedy, you keep trying to make a case against someone, but you aren't even committing yourself to them.(I'm aware that this has been said before)

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by passively tunneling on me? I'd say you are just scum trying to start a wagon without being involved with the lynch.

vote: Tragedy

This coming from somebody who later agrees with the popular read of espeonage as scum (see #26) yet doesn't vote (see #34).

Spoiler: Other stuff

Let's lynch Espeonage and see where it goes. If he flips town, I will be MORE inclined to lynch esurio.

Why?

After rereading a bit, I'm pretty sure Xtoxm/hohum is town.

Is this based on posts from Xtoxm, hohum, or a combination of the two of them?

What I do with my vote is completely up to me, I don't

think

I want to use it yet.

Eeeugh. Don't

think

you want to use it? What makes you doubt

yourself

on whether you want to vote or not?

I loled. Whats with you trying to find scummy things in things that aren't scummy?

Your post suggests you believe I have a history of trying to find scummy things in things that aren't scummy. Y/N? Also:

@ mb: Scumspects still the same as yesterday (and, by extension, roughly the same as Day 1)?

Pine is absolutely right that people are trying to discredit him before he even has a chance to post reads.

I on the other hand have no problem being insulted or moaned at

Unvote, Vote esurio

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

...

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. HAHAHA.


Oh boy.

Umm. Awwwwwkward.

I've been on record for a few pages now as saying I think

[the Espeonage/Pine slot is]

town.

You never provided reasoning, though. I would be grateful if you did?

P-Edit: I agree with RedCoyote. Let's all sheep his thil vote.

[Pinky and the Brain]

FRICK.

~ Hoppster

[RedCoyote]

Which do you find more flavorful?

My personal favorite is still mb53, but thil is the flavor of the month and I'd be just as happy to sell him to you.

Talk to me, chk. What's on your mind?

[lewarcher82]

hohum, may I ask you if you read the thread?

@kdub: I fail to see any reason why not revealing your reads is pro-town. Naturally there is a possibility, but it is a possibility that must not be discussed (I am sure you are smart enough to see what I mean). Therefore, by mentioning what you mentioned, you are preventing me from discussing Espeo's case with you for basically the rest of the game. Smart move, if you were scum. I am really confused. I will attentively read your slot's iso tomorrow.

@pine: I will give you the time it takes to someone else to realise your slot is scum. No more than that. Seriously, Espeonage lurked and ignored the game, pretended to be without internet and he was posting in other games & threads. As soon as I called him out on this, he posts to replace out. Please, obvscum is obvscum.

@pine(2): the cases on Espeo are in my iso.

Now, I have been driving for 700 Km today, so this is all I will post. Now I will go to sleep. I will examine the case on thil tomorrow, but I won't be happy to see the lurking strategy Espeo used for two whole days save his (pine's) ass again.

[chkflip]

Sell him to me? I think I was first to that bakery.

I think I've sufficiently found scum in thil; however, I understand that mb53 leaves something to be desired.

What I want to know from you, though, is who you feel would be the best lynch for today? Also: why?

[Dekes]

I'll sheep here until I'm properly caught up.

Vote: thil

Feels like lynch the VIs until you find the scum among them. And thil's minimalistic ISO doesn't offer a lot of connections. But then otoh, it also doesn't offer a lot to suggest he's town.

I really hope Ythan's and hohum's technique works for them. Esurio looks even more town to me after her dispute with Ythan.

Don't let TMH skirt around this thread. They're both way more active throughout the rest of the forums. This slot needs investigating.

Did Ghostwriter flake the site? Great.

This game has gone way downhill. Where did this "dana has a god complex" thing come from? Seems pretty random to me.

This post seems pretty random to me.

[GhostWriter]

Not quite. Post coming later once I've caught back up.

[Ythan]

Thil wagon is picking up? I'm still exactly as happy about a possible Thil lynch as I was before Pine came in.

[GhostWriter]

Fair warning, gonna be stealing the "Spoilers" thing, because I don't wanna just post a wall.

Let's start with the questions I got asked:

Spoiler: Questions

And I don't really find the DBE wagon speed disturbing, I find the TMH counter wagon speed disturbing. No, I wasn't expecting serious reasons. However, with reasonings of wanting a RVS wagon to hop on, but not going for an already begun one, I became wary.

The way you worded your original statement seemed like you were uncomfortable with the speed of BOTH wagons, TMH's wagon moreso. Bunnylover also raises a good point: why are you not looking at the TMH counter-wagon and who might be scum on it? We're on D3, page 32, and the best lead you have is a page 1 wagon with no follow-up?

Why would I look on the counter-wagon first? I'd have to go through them to try to find scum, and even with a scum flip, it wouldn't confirm Bunny as scum as well. If I believe that scum are protecting scum, I don't go after the one's protecting, I go after the one being protected, as there is likely a power-related reason for it. And then you look for the rest using post-flip analysis. That wasn't a good point, it was a terrible one.

@Ghostwriter
Espeo needs to contribute to solidify your town read on him. Agree or disagree?

That's the second time you avoided a question, Ghostwriter.

Because it feels like a leading question. You wanted me to answer "yes" so that it'd be like me adding pressure to a case I'm just not behind. And I don't have some huge town read on that slot. I just don't have a scummy one. I believe I first called it as "more than likely town" or something like that. And that was based on the fact that there didn't really seem all that great a case around him, he defended well enough, and yet kept being almost dogmatically chased after.

Now? Now? That isn't a recent quote from me. It was my reason for staying on the DBE wagon after RVS. However, DBE was never around, so there was no way I'd get support for it. While looking back, I realized that, with the replacement, perhaps now the wagon would fair better. And I don't really find the DBE wagon speed disturbing, I find the TMH counter wagon speed disturbing. No, I wasn't expecting serious reasons. However, with reasonings of wanting a RVS wagon to hop on, but not going for an already begun one, I became wary.

I call BS. Let's look at the TMH counterwagon on D1. First two voters were RC and CSL/Ythan, hardly the driving forces of the wagon. So the people who really wagoned were esurio, mb, myself and Lelouch. One of those flipped town, another is one of your stronger town-reads and the other two are as townie as it gets. If you really believed in your theory you would've pressured some of those people on the counterwagon. But there is nothing in your Iso, absolutely nothing.

Except that I was on Lelouch's wagon. Granted, I didn't list that as part of the motivation, but given the reactions so far, you'll have to go ahead and guess why it got left out. I also don't trust Esurio and you, though that's, admittedly, partly because of that whole vote bloc thing. As for MB, I look at him as the less-town Espeo. Actually been leaning scum for me due to almost no questioning of his motives despite them being pretty much the same as Espeo's.
I do not even remotely post everything I think unless I think I'm acting overwhelmingly nightkill targetable.
Also, I wouldn't, as mentioned further up, pressure the people on the counter-wagon until I had proof the counter-wagon existed and then I'd use post-flip analysis to help with that. And I couldn't exactly pressure DBE with her not being here, now could I? By the time Bunny replaced in, I was doing other things.

I think that's all the questions I've been asked? I'm not sure. Seems like it though. Onward to other stuff!

Spoiler: Other Things

After all that talk about not finding one convincing case in 34 pages you place that vote?

This.

You know what this feels like, Ythan? This feels like thil felt a little fire under his feet from us, and all of a sudden decided he should hurry up and cast the first "most reasonable" vote in order to blend back into the background. Either that or his buddies in the scum QT said something like, "you better hurry up and throw some vote down before too many people pick up on this".

But, yeah, it feels completely fraudulent and forced.

Unvote

;

vote: thil13

You seem to be implying scum have daytalk.

So I'm allowed to comment when people place idiotic votes on

other

people, but if I say anything about people placing idiotic votes on myself it's disingenuous and OMGUS?

Personally, I think the problem was that you replied with a laugh. I'd expect you to respond to it, and make him regret the vote. Hell, had you not responded to it, it'd have felt very wrong. But I expected something being said. Like, actually said. You know, the way yo do when they put idiotic votes on other people. But I agree, the vote was fairly idiotic.

Posting from handy: now we really should lynch espeonage. Why? Because he is scum, and because the fail peole who joined in and attack obvtown are implicitely and explicitely defending him. This espeonage shit went on too long and we really need his flip.

Xtoxm was ridicuulous, no one insulted him. Hohum seems to have more balls, but he should really take some time to reread bfore attacking esurio, for no reason.

And ythan: esurio's laughter was an absolutely understandable reaction.

General information, for thil and everyone: not voting means preventing game from proceeding. Which is evidenntly an advantage to scum. I don't want to hurt the feelings of someone who feels like xtoxm about this game, but who does not understand this basic rules shhould quit mafia and consider bowling instead.

The only thing you're trying to do here is rush a mislynch and what's worse is you're browbeating and throwing lots of useless words into a post to make it seem as if you actually have a valid point.

Completely agreed.

I'm not really getting the "your laughter wasn't spontaneous/genuine, therefore you're scummy" thing. Why does it seem like a ton of people want to attack esurio for crappy reasons? Maybe we shouldn't go there for now, honestly. Let's lynch Espeonage and see where it goes. If he flips town, I will be MORE inclined to lynch esurio.

Why? Specifically why would you be more inclined to lynch Esurio? What is the connection you've made? Because from looking at this, it seems that you've somehow connected the laughter thing to the case against Espeo. Which, of course, makes no sense, as the two are completely unrelated.

Thil's vote is bad. No question. I am unsure whether it is noob town bad, or scum bad. As said before, I had more of a town read on thil, but I'm not sure. I'll leave him null for now.

Sound familiar, anyone?

Maybe I am wrong with my read on lelouch (I have accidentally defended scum before, I can link if you want me to), but I feel he is genuinly trying (even in the post where he gave up he was scum hunting lol). I don't know what to think of the quicktopic topic, it may or may not be a coincidence.

Again, just a very innocent act about his stance on Leouch. "Maybe I'm wrong..." "I've accidentally been wrong before..." "it may be a coincidence...". Feels manipulative in the sense that mb53 is giving a heaping dose of uncertainty. Compare this to his post 174. This post is more rational and less full of doubt.

I just wanted to point this post out. This is pretty much what I was talking about earlier in this post (questions section) about why I'm having MB lean scum now. Furthermore, the defense is downright pathetic. Why? Because of how quickly it came. And because it completely changes what the accusation reads as, or at least what I percieve it to read as. I read RC as pointing out MB's need to repeatedly point out null reads and almost stress the fact that they're null. You can have null reads. That's all good. Everyone has them. But they don't go around shouting it to look like they're giving reads on players. Giving a null read is barely better than saying nothing at all. Adding details on why it's null rarely helps.

And my final thoughts.

Spoiler: Final Thoughts

Not gonna quote the Thil-case post, but I definitely give it my support. As well as Dana being scum. And I'm even willing to get on an MB wagon should one arise. My vote isn't going to get anything I want done, not when Bunny can hide behind others defending her, though I guess I can understand why the defense happened. Still, it stops me from reading her. And it's just one of those times where you feel someone is scum and really wanna see them dead and red. But that's controllable. Expecially with these others around.

Overall, this is what I'm doing:
VOTE: Thil

[thil13]

Have any of you ever changed your mind? Sometimes it's a spur of the moment thing. What else can you say about me other than my vote against Hohum? I'm using the Hohum trolling idea as a precedent. Surely he isn't as bad as the first we had, (Lelouch) but what did all of you guys do the last time somebody trolled? you lynched him.

[GhostWriter]

Congrats on using "lolz, we did it once and it didn't work, what's the problem?" AND not going through the whole case.

[thil13]

Then I guess I don't understand it

[Kdub]

Is this based on posts from Xtoxm, hohum, or a combination of the two of them?

The combination of both of them.

@kdub: I fail to see any reason why not revealing your reads is pro-town. Naturally there is a possibility, but it is a possibility that must not be discussed (I am sure you are smart enough to see what I mean). Therefore, by mentioning what you mentioned, you are preventing me from discussing Espeo's case with you for basically the rest of the game. Smart move, if you were scum. I am really confused. I will attentively read your slot's iso tomorrow.

Very well. If it comes down to it, I'll explain, but right now, I don't think it is beneficial to have that discussion.

Why would I look on the counter-wagon first? I'd have to go through them to try to find scum, and even with a scum flip, it wouldn't confirm Bunny as scum as well. If I believe that scum are protecting scum, I don't go after the one's protecting, I go after the one being protected, as there is likely a power-related reason for it. And then you look for the rest using post-flip analysis. That wasn't a good point, it was a terrible one.

If you believed Bunny's slot was scum, and that his buddies were protecting him, you should have been looking at and calling out people on the counter-wagon, even if you were voting the one being protected. You did not do that at any point.

I am receptive toward a thil wagon, but it's not my top choice.. His attitude toward wanting/not wanting to put his vote down, plus his Tragedy vote yesterday don't look good, but I'd prefer a dana or GW lynch today.

[jmj3000]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 9

Pinee

- 5 - esuriospiritus, danakillsu, lewarcher82, crazypianist1116, Ythan - (L-4)

mb53

- 1 - Bunnylover - (L-8)

thil13

-6 - chkflip, RedCoyote, The Master Hand, Pinky and the Brain, Dekes, GhostWriter - (L-3)

hohum

- 2 - Dekes, thil13 - (L-7)

danakillsu

- 3 - Kdub, hohum, mb53 - (L-6)

Players not voting: Pine,

Deadline is May 22nd at 9 PM EDT.

(expired on 2011-05-22 21:00:00)

Whee countdown code. Anyways, let me know if there are errors.

[Ythan]

I'm not hopping back and forth as things shift but I am willing to contribute to either a Pine or a thil lynch.

[lewarcher82]

about thill: I am unable to convince myself he is acting as scummy as you guys seem to think. chk's case against him sounds bad to me. The alleged contraddiction about the noob-card is a great case of misrepping. I don't know about you, but to me it is evident that thil was claiming new to the site, not new to mafia. I would sure be glad if thil posted more than the short posts he is posting. But for now, he is just an annoying nullish to me.

@GW: I had a look at your catch up and my arms fell on the floor. Do you even pay attention to the game? We all know that scum has daytalk. It is written in the ruleset and esurio made everyone notice it on day 1. If you don't read the thread, you are either dead weight or scum. Also, kdub is perfectly right that you should have caed out the scummy players who were protecting him. Your justification for not doing it is puerile: there is no reason not to go after more than a scummy player at a time. You officially entered my scumlist.

@dana: I used to consider you scummy, but I am liking your ISO 32.

@esurio: I may agree that pine deserves some time to catch up and post, but this does not change the fact that his slot:
1) proposed to massnameclaim on day1
2) defended Lelouch etc. etc.
3) voted esurio out of no reason
4) lurked until the wagon on him moved to tragedy
5) did the same today and right after I proved he was posting in other threads he decided to replace out.

To me, it's a very scummy slot. Therefore, after a lot of people unvoted, I feel no reason to remove my vote from pine. Let him catch up, but let him do it with some good pressure.

[The Master Hand]

I read hohum and am feeling a town-read on him. I disagree with his stance on esurio, however.
The thil votes/cases I agree with, so I feel like that is todays best lynch.
Pine/Espeonage are still very scmmy, but I want him to catch up. There is still the possibility that he legitimately thought lynching lelouch was a bad idea (I still don't think it was). The manner in which he replaced was scummy. Is espeonage still active in his other games?
-

Toast

[lewarcher82]

I read hohum and am feeling a town-read on him. I disagree with his stance on esurio, however.
The thil votes/cases I agree with, so I feel like that is todays best lynch.
Pine/Espeonage are still very scmmy, but I want him to catch up. There is still the possibility that he legitimately thought lynching lelouch was a bad idea (I still don't think it was). The manner in which he replaced was scummy. Is espeonage still active in his other games?
-

Toast

he posted 7 times today.

[RedCoyote]

Sell him to me? I think I was first to that bakery.

Oh, duh. Well, good call then.

Bunny, if you liked mb53, then you'll love thil. Why don't you join us?

[chkflip]

V/LA Friday, Mar. 13 through Sunday, Mar. 15

My bro's birthday; we're going camping to get shitfaced in the woods.

[esuriospiritus]

Lewarcher, you're preaching to the choir. It is highly unlikely that my vote is moving until Espeonage/Pine is lynched or killed.

[RedCoyote]

esurio!

[esuriospiritus]

RC!