Newbie 1101 - Game over!

[Grimmjow]

And I can tell that Grimmjow's play has changed once his wagon has eased off.

The wagon on me was inconsequential to my play. I don't have anything to hide. And if you are referencing my lack of activity, I have explained that I had things IRL that contributed to my inability to put my all into the game.

Now, to cover this:

Grimm: And you agree why? Because it means that no one's getting on your case? Or do you have some other reason to believe it?

I'm getting a strong read on Voidedmafia, about his hurriedness to lynch somebody, but I'm not sure what this means.

I agreed with PI about your hurriedness. As Incog has stated, a lynch this early into D1 would be unwise, yet you seemed pretty adamant about lynching someone within a week, due to people's lack of interest after a week into D1, and yet you turn around and state multiple times that you hate quick lynches.

Oh, just watch. The level of participation slacks off by the end of D1 if we don't lynch people within a week -_-.

EVERY SINGLE TIME, I TELL YOU! EVERY! SINGLE! DAMN (pardon)! TIME!

This makes it appear, very clearly in my eyes at least, that you are pushing people to go ahead and make a lynch. Read: quick lynch. A week into D1? Hell, as a complete noob, I figured out that a lynch this early in the game was not reasonable. And as far as people's participation slacking off goes, that simply means they will be posting less frequently, but they will be posting more substance. Which I think would be completely reasonable, as it means that each post they make (generally) would be more direct and to the point.

Now, as scum, it would make perfect sense to try and get a lynch in within a week, because if participation does slack off, it would mean that people are scrutinizing posts more and might be able to catch scum slips easier. And as this is a newbie game, wouldn't it be to scum's benefit to try and convince the noobs that quick lynches are a good idea?

And this, to answer your question, is why I agreed with PI in the first place.

Now, I have more to post, but I don't want this to be a ridiculously long post, so I'm going to take a break and clean up the apartment a bit.

[sanchocolates]

Day 1, to me at least, is a day where you find some information about everyone such as how they play (generally) and how scummy they play. Most likely we'll lynch a town player on D1 anyways so that's why I don't try to jump on a wagon on D1 as I try to find more information by questioning people who haven't contributed as much or I think they seem scummy. It's all generally gut reads on who I pick to question. And from my experience, making the day drag on without much activity is an advantage to the scum.

[Incognito]

Guys, it's completely wrong to assume that Day 1 is this Day that we'll just end up lynching someone who's town. I don't like that kind of morale. Yes, it's generally a Day that we should be trying to obtain a lot of information from, but there is absolutely NO reason why scum can't be lynched on a Day 1.

[Voidedmafia]

Incognito: You were saying I was trying to out a PR? Voided was at L-1! I unvoted in case there was a quick hammer, and asked the question that should be asked for anybody at L-1 or 2.
I wanted a claim, and since I didn't get one (as far as I can see. Point me to it if otherwise):

vote: Voidedmafia

Also, I'm not trying to say "Not answering a question==scummz", I'm saying that that, plus the other things that have been brought up, add up to the best D1 lynch I can see.

Why would not claiming be a scumtell in this case?

And why was the fact I didn't answer the question a cause for a vote, again?

Grimm: Answer me this then: Why would I sound like a hypocrite there by looking as if I'm going for a QL when I've REPEATEDLY said that I hate QLs? It makes no sense to do such contrasting actions like this, and would only serve to make me look scummier.

Incog: I never was going to claim then. As far as I could tell, I never got any ask for a claim, and I wasn't going to claim at L-2, anyways.

[Incognito]

Holy shit.

@cjdrum

I find it odd that part of your case on voided was based on him not answering all of my general questions while you didn't answer any of them.

I just noticed this.

What say you, cjdrum?

[Oswald]

UNVOTE: Voidedmafia

I'd tell you more, but I have to go to work.

[Voidedmafia]

UNVOTE: Voidedmafia

I'd tell you more, but I have to go to work.

Please do not forget my reply to you on page 5.

[el simo]

Vote Count

• (3) Voidedmafia
  -
  PersonalIdiot04, Grimmjow, cjdrum
  
  
• (2) cjdrum
  -
  sanchocolates, Incognito
  
  
• (1) Oswald
  -
  Voidedmafia

(3) Not Voting:

dk_peace, Elfen, Oswald

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Elfen]

Personally, I've never been a big fan of random voting. I don't think it's the most efficient way to start a game. Thus, I'm going to throw out a few random questions about ourselves and about mafia theory.

1) How long have you been playing?
2) How often can we expect you to post?
3) What is your opinion on lurking?
4) In what situation is it permissible for a vanilla townie to lie?

Hopefully that can start a productive discussion. I'm going to hold off on answering to let the rest of the class chime in first.

1)Umm I have played about 4-6 on other sites. 1 on here(as a replacement)
2) about everyday if I don’t have homework
3)Umm not that great. If you have something say, say it.
4)Lying about there power role.

I'll ask some questions of my own too.

1. Why are you not mafia?

2. Are you lying about your previous answer?

3. Pick a Number please? One, Two or Three

4. Are you nervous about question 3? why or why not?

To answer myself:

1. Because I got a role PM saying I'm a Vanilla Townie.

2. No I'm not.

3. 3, because we're on question 3.

4. It's just a simple question, no need to be nervous about it.

1.Because my role in my Pm said Townie with the vanilla on top ;3
2.Why would I lie about something so dire.
3.3
4.Umm no why would I b nervous. And 3 is my lucky number.


Well since I am reading and posting this on word doc, I am posting my suspicions while I read so bare with me. Void has been avoiding(Haha pun) questions that eh has been asked, kind of totes something, I think, but his post ahs not been making since to me :/ kind of confusing… now I know how other people feel about my post.

Yay drunk posting!

Lawls xD

Grimm: I just didn't answer it. Simple as that.

And no. I wouldn't say that to deflect, anyways. Besides, you're full of contradictions,

as Oswlad has pointed out, which is equally as scummy.

vote: Grimmjow

Oswald: Why are you making a good case on Grimmjow about his contradictions, then unvoting due to a hopeful hypothetical that was NOT posted by Grimmjow himself? That's not good at all.

What I bolded sounds scummy to me. Why? Well, I'm defending him, and he's trying to make me vote for the same person he's voting for. Which would make me look scummy. So he's trying to make me look like scum to distract people from the possible fact that he is scum so... UNVOTE: cjdrum

VOTE: Voidedmafia

So, you're saying I'm scummy for both endorsing your case, yet criticzing (bah, forgot how that's spelled) the reason for your unvote? Why would that get me anywhere as a deflection? Why would that make me look scummy, for that matter?

Also, getting people to vote for the same person as me (or you, as it may be) is not scummy, or else all wagons would be scummy. However, trying to get you to vote for the same person (or vice versa) for WEAK REASONING is scummy, which you did not have and why I agreed with your case on Grimmjow. However, you unvoting from Incog's hypothetical post about how Grimmjow was posting did not sit well because

Incognito

, not

Grimmjow

posted that. If Grimmjow had said "oops! I'm m apparantly mixing up the role Town and the alignment townie!" I wouldn't have pointed it out, but that is not the case, and I'm calling you out for it.

Oh, and nice hypocrisy, Oswald. You spent most of the post defending me, yet vote me for one action that would, at least, make me more null in regards to whether or not I'm townie or scum. Which is what I've done twice (once with Grimmjow, and again with you, though it's more agreeing with your case than defending you). Why aren't you getting flak over this as well as me?

Grimm: And you agree why? Because it means that no one's getting on your case? Or do you have some other reason to believe it?

Okay Fos on Oswald. Void has made good points. I don’t think I remember the post of the hypothetical post that Grimmy made. Any one care to post it for me??

Ok, I think I've just about caught up.

- That whole "Voidedmafia not answering that one question = scumzz" is really stupid. If it was a question that could actually reflect more on his own guilt or innocence then maybe I could see why it would be scummy for him not to answer it, but it was a random question dk_peace made to try and kickstart the game that BARELY had any kind of alignment-gleaning potential. So no.

Overall, I'm getting kinda cold on the case against Voidedmafia.

- Note #2: Grimmjow, you're actually at L-3, not L-2. I switched my vote to Oswald in my second to last post.

- Oswald has been all over the place these last two pages. He voiced some suspicion of cjdrum saying he's "making up stuff to convince people Voidedmafia is mafia" and then voted him for it and then

on the very next page

he votes Voidedmafia based off of a single line while seeming to completely forget that he was suspicious of cjdrum's attacks on the very same guy he ends up voting. The whole thing just doesn't look sincere to me.

Oswald, why would Voidedmafia trying to get you to vote for the same guy he's voting for make you look scummy? Further, why would how you appear to the rest of the town even concern you?

Separate post to follow since this one's getting long.

Hmm wishy-washing with his votes you suspect??

More FoS on Oswald.

Oswald, in response to your question for me, I voted you because you said that you were mostly just reading what other people were saying and that's why you weren't posting, but then I thought you somehow missed two separate questions directed at you from two separate people even though you apparently were "reading." It made me think you weren't actually reading like you claimed you were. I see now that you responded to those questions, however.

BTW, I'm now L-2. Incog, I'd like to hear from you a bit more, as you're the (I think) IC.

What do you want to hear from me specifically? I'd say I've been fairly active this game, so I'm not really sure what you want from me here.

I will happily support a Voidedmafia lynch, but would like to see him post to confirm that he isn't a Power Role, and to offer something of a defense-ish form.

Huge FoS: cjdrum

I don't like this line for 2 reasons:

1)

There's no way we're even CLOSE to lynching someone right now, so I'm not a fan of how you seem ready for Voided's lynch based on these 5 pages when we've not gotten any info from at least two separate people and

2)

I keep reading your line over and over again to myself and it almost seems like a slip. "confirm that he isn't a power role"? Doesn't that imply that you know he's town?

Hmm you made some good points. But is this his first game or second or w/e cause I made the same mistakes in my first few… and I was townie T_T But why would any one confirm a power role this early in the game. The only people who would do such thing would be mafia who wants them to believe that they are the cop/doctor. I advise highly that no one role claim yet. Not this early. Unless a wincon and role/name claim is necessary .

How about we make it a REAL wagon.

unvote, vote: cjdrum

FoS: Oswald

And hi, Elfen. Thanks for replacing in.

Hi :3 no problem. But I am sorry. (like grimm said, a scumdar went off) why would any one want to wagon?? For some reason I am highly against all those things >_> FoS: Incognito

Incognito: You were saying I was trying to out a PR? Voided was at L-1! I unvoted in case there was a quick hammer, and asked the question that should be asked for anybody at L-1 or 2.
I wanted a claim, and since I didn't get one (as far as I can see. Point me to it if otherwise):

vote: Voidedmafia

Also, I'm not trying to say "Not answering a question==scummz", I'm saying that that, plus the other things that have been brought up, add up to the best D1 lynch I can see.
Also, IIRC, you were alright with a Voidedmafia lynch until my... Unvote?

Major FoS: Incognito

You look like you're following bandwagons when it benefits you - first with bussing Voided, then with attacking me. Maybe you aren't bussing, but if Voided flips scum you are definitely highest on my scum list.

Please tell me why you voted for Void?

Also, the last quote Grimm posted made a good point in this post .

Also

@Grimmjow: OMFG I LOVE YOUR PROFILE PIC!! He so sexy ♥ xD. Sorry fan girl here :3(well fanguy) GrimmxIchi 4ever D: Sorry >.< It lets loose sometimes.

Well this is what I got.

FoS;

Void and Oswald, not sure about a vote yet.

[Voidedmafia]

Where did you indicate that you had a reason to FoS me? Or did you mean Incog instead?

[Elfen]

Oops, sorry I think I was FoS:Cjdrum my bad D: I was reading other things and I was thinking that you where suspicious and I still do. But i forgot the post T_T

[Elfen]

Oh yeah https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p3028282 the post grimmy made. for some reason word docs didn't copy the hyper link.

[Voidedmafia]

May I again point out how hypocritical that sounds, given how many times I've said I HATE QLs? It has NOTHING to do with QLing, but the fact that I'm pointing out how games get slack after a week, and my frustration with that.

[Elfen]

Sure you may hate it, but you can't help it. If people hurry to vote, they will miss something important. When I played we had a week for one day. Basically we had to RVS (which I loathe) but eventually we got some suspicion but they where still townie.

But I am also waiting for others to reply so yeah :/ It kind of annoys me how long the day period is, they could have moved it down to like 2-1 and a half weeks. It does bug me too...

Also, people say(on other forums) that my meta is scummy for some reason. It bugs me how people think so low of me that I will get lynched on the first day T_T

Any who, lets wait to see what the other people post shall we. I mean we won't get no where with the two of us

[Voidedmafia]

I'm not saying they have to hurry to vote, but at least do more to give your thoughts.

[Elfen]

Yeah true, but people will still feel rushed and most likely make mistakes, I mean do you want to see the 2 games I have played so far(playing 3rd one on the forum now) this will be my 5th game including the replacement I did for a later game on here.

http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthrea ... ia-Round-2 This is my first game I ever palyed... lets just say it didn't go well.... the day ends like on page 12 or something idk. But the day ended in less than 24 hours >_>

and here is the one continuing on right now. http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthrea ... astlevania



I am posting these so you can see my metagame play style. Apparently, my way is always scummy for some reason.
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthrea ... all-Island I actually did better on this game...

[Incognito]

I'm tipsy so I can't really respond to stuff yet, but all I can say is Elfen is reading TOWN and clear. That is all.

[PersonalIdiot04]

Let's see if I can come up with "reports":
Voidedmafia:

Scum

Incognito:

Possibly Scum

Grimmjow:

Possibly Scum

Elfen:

Likely Town

cjdrum:

Town

Oswald:

Town

dk_peace:

Town

sanchocolates:

Neutral

[Elfen]

@PI huh well I got some opp things from that, well from my reading.

Voidedmafia: Scum
Incognito: Neutral
Grimmjow: Neutral
PersonalIdiot04: Likely Town
cjdrum: possibly scum
Oswald: possibly scum
dk_peace: not sure
sanchocolates: not sure

[PersonalIdiot04]

And we also got some similar things, most notably Voidedmafia being scum.

[Voidedmafia]

Should I assume that you both have that post as one reason as to why I'm scum? How many times must I point out how hypocritical that your conclusion is when put up against the myriad of times I've said "I hate QLs"?

Of course, If I'm wrong, and that's NOT why you think I'm scum, do tell.

[cjdrum]

Holy shit.

@cjdrum

I find it odd that part of your case on voided was based on him not answering all of my general questions while you didn't answer any of them.

I just noticed this.

What say you, cjdrum?

I had thought I had answered them. Here are my answers then:

1) How long have you been playing?
2) How often can we expect you to post?
3) What is your opinion on lurking?
4) In what situation is it permissible for a vanilla townie to lie?

1) A bit longer than my join date, IRL and on another forum
2) Hopefully a lot. I don't have a whole bunch of time when I

can

post, but I will try to when I can.
3) It slows the game down, but I don't think it's a scumtell. There can be many reasons behind "lurking", and I think that many of these can be ProTown.
4) When claiming; when a Doctor, or PR that is going to be targeted by scum instantly. If they become a threat to scum by telling the truth, it's okay to lie, IMO.


My main concern with Voided there was that the simpler questions were answered, leaving out a single, simple-for-scum-to-slip-up question. It pings me very very much.

[dk_peace]

I've decided to start doing in depth analysis of the various cases at the moment to see if any have merit. Seemed apropriate to start with Voided since his wagon got to L-1. A lot of people seem to think he's scum but I'm not sure how strong the case is. Let's find out.

For starters, we have:

Oh, just watch. The level of participation slacks off by the end of D1 if we don't lynch people within a week -_-.

EVERY SINGLE TIME, I TELL YOU! EVERY! SINGLE! DAMN (pardon)! TIME!

This seems to be the foundation of the Voided/quicklynch argument and as such it's a decent one. Since he's said he dislikes quick lynches repeatedly but this is jarring and reads scummy(and is also factually untrue, as my last game went close to deadline the first 3 days and actually kept a good pace on conversation through most of it) He then proceeds to adamantly deny that he was pushing for a arbitrary quick lynch. Saying that we need to push a lynch through in a week even though the actual deadline is 3 weeks away feels fairly arbitrary to me but that is neither here nor there.

Then there is the question he didn't answer. Honestly, I'm not really sweating it. The point of all of those questions was to generate discussion to move the game forward (although the first two were mostly for my reference further on in the game. I like to know if mistakes are n00b errors or actual scum tells and I like having expectations for how much people are going to post)

Then there is this:

I don't know what it was, but the phrase just pinged me. It

seemed

really bad, but I still can't put my finger on exactly what it is.

Don't let yourself get too bogged down by it. -_-

This feels like deflection to me. Instead of addressing cjdrum's concerns, Voided simply tries to sweep them away. I don't like it

Next we have Voided vaguely implying that Oswald was lurking for not responding to his question right away. This left a bad taste in my mouth but I don't really think it's scum per se as much as it's unrealistic expectations based on inexperience. At least, at that point. Currently, the idea that Oswald is lurking is starting to gain some merit but I'll go into that further in another post.

That said, this really seem like the entirety of the case on Voided as I see it. If I missed something big then feel free to point it out. However, it feels way to weak to have gotten to L-1.

[dk_peace]

@ cjdrum

What are some protown reasons for lurking? While I can admit that many reasons for lurking are probably null (like real life), I honestly can't think of any reason not to actively contribute to discussion that legitimately aids the town in the long term.

[dk_peace]

@ Grimmjow

I was not claiming town or scum. Not once (that I can remember) have I actually claimed town.

Yes you did:

And, as far as my questions go, I can see how they would be considered fishy, however, if I were scum, I would not need to "fish" for information as to who was town and who was not.

However, as town, I most certainly would need to do this.

And, as this is my first game and I don't like the idea of RVSing, why would I not start a discussion on such a topic?

Either you lied about it or you forgot about it in under 12 hours. Care to comment?