Nintendo Mafia (Game Over)

[Ythan]

Dekes Esurio Bunny. Still need to redo Dana.

[Kdub]

Then I guess only 9/10 of the reasons thil is obvious scum work. Good thing I explicitly stated before claiming that I was going to offer up my information to the consideration of a greater number of players.

If you're calling thil scum and telling people that they are stupid or not seeing what is "obvious" to you, yet everyone else is still unconvinced, maybe, just maybe, the problem is with you and not with everyone else.

Iso 22: Finally reveals that his reason for thinking Espeo/Pine was town was somebody else's supposed breadcrumb. This doesn't make sense to me. Why on earth would someone leave such an obvious breadcrumb as "I looked into him over the night phase"? Surely, no townie would really think he should stop everyone from lynching whoever they wanted over this. Also says his vote on me is good "for now", but hasn't moved it since, despite not pointing out any more "scumtells" in my posts.

If it was a legitimate breadcrumb, which I thought it was, wouldn't it be obvious that hohum would not have wanted to reveal himself explicitly unless absolutely needed? I was trying to prevent it from coming to that point.

As far as scumtells on you, I posted reasons why I think you are scum, and your response was essentially admitting that most of my points were valid. Obviously my vote isn't going to move based on that type of response.

[Ythan]

Then I guess only 9/10 of the reasons thil is obvious scum work. Good thing I explicitly stated before claiming that I was going to offer up my information to the consideration of a greater number of players.

If you're calling thil scum and telling people that they are stupid or not seeing what is "obvious" to you, yet everyone else is still unconvinced, maybe, just maybe, the problem is with you and not with everyone else.

If you can't keep up with the thread well enough to remember that there is a reason he almost got lynched in the first place then I care very little about your opinion.

[Kdub]

Un-cc'ed cop claim that caught scum >> reads. That's my "opinion".

[Ythan]

[quote="Kdub's reading comprehension][the first half of the thread]
...cop...
[the second half of the thread][/quote]

[Ythan]

For want of a quotation mark.

[danakillsu]

Obviously my vote isn't going to move based on that type of response.

Noting that this response you speak of was before the following statement, why did you say that it was a good place to put your vote "for now"? Especially since you thought it was obvious your vote wasn't going to move.

I just don't buy the idea that you were trying to keep things from coming to the point of outing hohum. I don't understand how you could think that such an obvious statement was really a breadcrumb.

@ esuriospiritus
I never said that Dekes and lewarcher were scum. Dekes isn't even particularly toward scum on that list. You're higher than Ythan because you've been a townread of mine all game. In my experience, outside information should rarely be allowed to influence a solid townread. Obviously, one exception would be a confirmed cop getting a guilty on my townread, or something like that.

[Pinky and the Brain]

C, a counter claim should be outright and not just a small hint. Counter claiming is a big move that will show who is scum and who isn't. The fact that he sort of played around it didn't make me think he was cop.

Besides, I already AM the cop

.

Pine, it would be no surprise to me if there were more than one cop with the amount of people that signed up for this, so unless the mod wanted to put in every obscure role, he may have doubled roles, but that's just what I think. There very well could be another cop, or more than one doctor/vig/whatever.

thil, don't these contradict each other? Leaving aside the

way

in which Ythan would have been allegedly breadcrumbing/soft-CC'ing, you're saying that you are

the

[implying one and only]

cop

(as an additional reason for doubting a Ythan cop counter-claim), yet earlier you said you wouldn't be suprised with more than one cop.

Un-cc'ed cop claim that caught scum >> reads. That's my "opinion".

To what extent would you stick with this? Or is this an absolute rule that you will apply for the rest of the game, regardless of anything else, as long as thil remains un-CC'd?

[lewarcher82]

@dana: I have posted too much to be a nullread. I would have preferred if you said I was a scumread of yours...

@kdub: the major points of dana's case against you are actually the first 3 or 4. Please make sure you answer each point, espceially: the "either pine or dana" thing, followed by a vote on dana.

@ythan: you need to explain EXACTLYyour train of thoughts. After 48 hourse of questions, you still refuse to do it in cleartext. I see no reason whatsoever for your claim, role and night-action to imply that thil is scum. Is your idea that "since thil was unprotected, he should have died if he were cop"? If so, answer this:

how would scum know that cop was unprotected

? (if you dodge this question, my inclination to believe you will be *really* endangered)

@ythan(2): why is esurio scummy?

[esuriospiritus]

@Dana: Whoops, you're right. Not sure how I mistyped that. e_e

Better question, then: Why are lewarcher and Dekes neutral?

[Ythan]

1 Didn't think through it so well. As I've said, I'm not so into this game.
2 I can get into why each player I suspect is up there in more detail.

[danakillsu]

@dana: I have posted too much to be a nullread. I would have preferred if you said I was a scumread of yours...

This is like saying "I've played too many holes to be at even par" in golf.

@Dana: Whoops, you're right. Not sure how I mistyped that. e_e

Better question, then: Why are lewarcher and Dekes neutral?

Hmmm. Because I haven't seen anything in them that's anywhere near as scummy as kdub? I mean, I still think something's a little bit off about lewarcher's posts, but I haven't had too much experience with him, and it's nothing that's just obviously scummy. Dekes has acted much as I would expect him to from what I've seen of him as town.

[danakillsu]

Missed a sentence. That should also say, "On the other hand, what Dekes has said about me this game doesn't seem to reflect what he knows about me, so I'm not sure about his alignment."

[Kdub]

Noting that this response you speak of was before the following statement, why did you say that it was a good place to put your vote "for now"? Especially since you thought it was obvious your vote wasn't going to move.

"For now" means "barring any new information, either from other players or from anything I catch on a reread". I made that post near the start of the day when some players hadn't even posted yet, and I stated in the same post that I was planning to look at chkflip again. It's not like my vote was absolutely not going anywhere else.

I just don't buy the idea that you were trying to keep things from coming to the point of outing hohum. I don't understand how you could think that such an obvious statement was really a breadcrumb.

Then tell me, what would be a scum motivation for making a sudden flip-flop on Espeonage/Pine like that as opposed to simply defending him from the outset? If I wanted to protect Espeonage, I wouldn't have pushed for his lynch in the first place.

To what extent would you stick with this? Or is this an absolute rule that you will apply for the rest of the game, regardless of anything else, as long as thil remains un-CC'd?

Nothing is an absolute. If new evidence surfaces that puts thil's claim into doubt, then obviously I would reconsider.

@kdub: the major points of dana's case against you are actually the first 3 or 4. Please make sure you answer each point, espceially: the "either pine or dana" thing, followed by a vote on dana.

Iso 0: Says that Espeonage's flip should carry information about my alignment.
Iso 6: Says there's a good chance Espeonage is TOWN, and then doesn't proceed to vote me, but rather Ghost Writer, whom he has not called scummy.
Iso 8: Says IF Espeonage is town, I am a better place to put his vote. This obviously means that if Espeonage is scum, I am a worse place to put his vote.

I thought that if Espeonage were scum, it would make dana look slightly better because dana had voted him earlier. After Pine's flip, looking at dana's play again including his earlier play today where he seemed to have no real suspects and was just following other people, I decided he was still scummy in spite of Pine being scum. It obviously wasn't a one-or-the-other situation. And the GW thing is a misrep, I did suspect him in my ISO 4 and 5 for his poor reasoning against Bunnylover. To say that I didn't call him scummy is only true in the literal sense, I clearly suggested that I was questioning his effort and motivation.

[jmj3000]

At a dart tournament, will get to this tonight.

[Dekes]

Dekes has acted much as I would expect him to from what I've seen of him as town.

Missed a sentence. That should also say, "On the other hand, what Dekes has said about me this game doesn't seem to reflect what he knows about me, so I'm not sure about his alignment."

Elaborate on both parts, please.

1. The only time you've seen me directly as town was in Blackest Night, where you were the mod. So you was obviously informed about my role and thus biased towards how you viewed my play. I don't expect you to get as clear a town read on me when you've never played with me as town before.
2. What do I know about you? The only game we played together is ongoing.
3. So my play is town but you don't give me a town read because of how I view you? When we didn't even play together? Errm...no.

And your Kdub case is just bad. It revolves too much about you and apart from calling Espeo town (which several people suffered from) I don't see anything scum there.

Unvote; Vote: dana

While you're not on the top of my scumlist, I'm all for the wagon now because they should be very informative if either dana or thil flip scum. Now with two scum dead I'm sure the incentive to bus has decreased by a lot compared to the rather easy Espeo wagons and their respective VI/lurker counterwagons on D2 and D3.

I'm actually surprised some people call me town without a question considering I've done shit for quite a while now. Even now with two dead scum the game is lacking for me and apparently others as well.

And I want all non-voters to vote or make at least it very clear where they stand in their next post. We are like five days away from the deadline and I want commitment out of those players, namely Bunny, thil and Ghostwriter. DH gets a little more time to catch up, but has the disadvantage that he replaced into a scum slot.

[GhostWriter]

You know I voted, right? I'm on Dana.

[Dekes]

Alright...mod has listed you twice in his latest vote count.

[GhostWriter]

Ah, that'd explain the confusion then.

[danakillsu]

Ugh. Guess I'm just not at the top of my game. A lot of stuff I'm saying is getting shot down in a way I can't really respond to. Since I can't expect people to just believe me I'll just go ahead and claim. I'm Anju the cucco farmer, VT.

I just don't buy the idea that you were trying to keep things from coming to the point of outing hohum. I don't understand how you could think that such an obvious statement was really a breadcrumb.

Then tell me, what would be a scum motivation for making a sudden flip-flop on Espeonage/Pine like that as opposed to simply defending him from the outset? If I wanted to protect Espeonage, I wouldn't have pushed for his lynch in the first place.

Well if you were scum, following the rest of the town when they finally decided to lynch Pine would be a perfect strategy. Defending, then bussing is a great strategy for scum if they can pull it off.

[lewarcher82]

I am really pissed at ythan... he made a huge mess with his trust me stuff and the he just writes:

Didn't think through it so well. As I've said, I'm not so into this game.

well man, this is not the damn impression you gave. You looked like someone who is very much into this game, until there was even the tiniest chance of getting thil lynched... The fact that you are unccd gives you some credit, but you cannot just say that you aren't into this game, after all you have done!

Dana: I strongly disagree with many things you are writing. Now that kdub has answered, I can simply agree with him on two major points:
- it is not true that he had no case on GW when he voted him;
- voting last in the bw on scum is regarded as highly scummy, so your statement

following the rest of the town when they finally decided to lynch Pine would be a perfect strategy. Defending, then bussing is a great strategy for scum if they can pull it off.

sounds wrong to me...

@Dekes: you have actually done very little, in the late phase, and this is the reason why I asked Ythan why he foses esurio, not why he foses you (guess what? he didn't answer). On the other hand, you were a solid townread of mine til the death of pine, and you didn't do anything scummy... besides, esurio hasn't done much either... I honestly wonder if the voting bloc makes any sense, but then again, we hardly ever acted as a real bloc, so it does not matter much.

[crazypianist1116]

Prod dodge. Posting later today.

[Kdub]

Well if you were scum, following the rest of the town when they finally decided to lynch Pine would be a perfect strategy. Defending, then bussing is a great strategy for scum if they can pull it off.

That's not the issue though. I started out calling Espeonage scummy, which many players agreed with. I then suddenly started defending him, even though others still thought he was scummy. Why would I act in that manner if I were scum?

Your claim probably wasn't necessary just yet, but obviously it's not a claim that changes my opinion one way or the other.

[danakillsu]

Well if you were scum, following the rest of the town when they finally decided to lynch Pine would be a perfect strategy. Defending, then bussing is a great strategy for scum if they can pull it off.

That's not the issue though. I started out calling Espeonage scummy, which many players agreed with. I then suddenly started defending him, even though others still thought he was scummy. Why would I act in that manner if I were scum?

Your claim probably wasn't necessary just yet, but obviously it's not a claim that changes my opinion one way or the other.

I don't know what the exact motivation for scum in that would be, because if you are scum there's no way for me to know why you would begin by calling him scummy. Maybe you saw an opportunity to bus, then saw a better opportunity to defend, then realized you had to bus anyway. But the change from defending him to suddenly voting him IS scummy, and that's my main point.

[Ythan]

Oh no Lew is mad at me.