A Gentleman's Game of Guile, Subterfuge, and Intrigue (Fin)


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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 1:17 am

Post by lord_hur »

Hoppster wrote:
lord_hur wrote:I'm FUCKING furious to see my efforts at helping newbies called out at attempts to get any advantage. This would be utterly dishonorable. Newbies have to learn, and if your frame of mind was mainstream, no one would help them at all. Shame on you for doing this. That reminds me of that one time when I contemplated farside22 gaining extra info from normal use of her limited mod powers. I immediately and deeply apologized to her, even before she confronted me about it. I suggest you do the same. Insulting someone in this manner is very grave to me.

As much as I agree with what you're saying, the tone of this post is reading to me as scum who feels he has been caught out for a completely wrong reason.

Oh yes, and what is that right reason then? And what makes you feel it is not genuine?

Enough vague statements I cannot answer to, give me facts, analysis and arguments.

Also, if you're town, go to hell. I have rarely, if ever, been more sincere in my life than when I wrote this.
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 1:18 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

Hoppster wrote:
Hoppster wrote:
vezokpiraka wrote:I still think you're scummy.

For what reason(s)?

'Sup, vezok.


ToastyToast wrote:Other notes: I am noticing a large decrease in activity from AV and Hoppster (post length, general content)

What does that mean (in terms of your read on us) as a consequence?


lord_hur wrote:I'm FUCKING furious to see my efforts at helping newbies called out at attempts to get any advantage. This would be utterly dishonorable. Newbies have to learn, and if your frame of mind was mainstream, no one would help them at all. Shame on you for doing this. That reminds me of that one time when I contemplated farside22 gaining extra info from normal use of her limited mod powers. I immediately and deeply apologized to her, even before she confronted me about it. I suggest you do the same. Insulting someone in this manner is very grave to me.

As much as I agree with what you're saying, the tone of this post is reading to me as scum who feels he has been caught out for a completely wrong reason.


Gut feeling.
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 5:36 am

Post by jilynne1991 »

Um, does this really have to be that big of a deal? I didn't mean to start a fight or anything. :(
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 6:11 am

Post by Hoppster »

jilynne1991 wrote:Um, does this really have to be that big of a deal? I didn't mean to start a fight or anything. :(

Mafia is made for fighting.

It gets a lot worse than this.


lord_hur wrote:Oh yes, and what is that right reason then? And what makes you feel it is not genuine?

Enough vague statements I cannot answer to, give me facts, analysis and arguments.

Also, if you're town, go to hell. I have rarely, if ever, been more sincere in my life than when I wrote this.

Ooh, twisting my words now? Very nice. I like the "if you're town" bit you added.

Definitely bitter scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: lord_hur

I never said it was not genuine. I never said you weren't being sincere. I never doubted you had good intentions for helping jilynne. What I
was
saying was that your post suggested that you were scum who felt wrongly caught out (ie. you were frustrated at being caught as scum, but you felt that the reason that you were caught as scum is completely ridiculous).



Now it's finally over:

Candy Zoo Mafia

That's the game there have been a few subtle references to in this game. I tunelled Twistedspoon Day 1, I was indeed scum.

If you wish to believe that I am stupid enough as scum to do this twice in a row, then I am mortally offended but accept any suspicion, as I can see at face value ("OMG HE TUNELLED TWISTEDSPOON IN BOTH THOSE GAMES AND WAS SCUM IN THE FIRST ONE") that it seems logical.

If you actually believe that this one case of meta has any weight under these circumstances, you're effectively calling me an utter idiot. Candy Zoo Mafia would almost certainly finish before this game, and knowingly tunelling on Twistedspoon because LOL IT WORKED LAST TIME despite knowing a scumflip in Candy Zoo Mafia would incriminate me just seems... really, really stupid.

If you want, compare the two cases/interrogations by me on Twistedspoon from both games; I'm fairly sure they should be quite different.



vezokpiraka wrote:a) Less likely. Although just by a slight margin.
b) More likely. Like 75% sure he'll flip scum.
c) Won't change my view on you. As much as I know you could've bussed a weak buddy.
d)Eh. Still won't change my view on you too much.

I view you as town btw.

vezok, what changed?
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 6:46 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

@Hopp: I don't know. The tone of your posts seems to. Told you. Just a gut feeling.
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 7:21 am

Post by jilynne1991 »

Just out of curiosity, why don't we lynch vezok? He seems to not help much even if he is town, and if he's scum, yay!
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 8:53 am

Post by ToastyToast »

@Hoppster: this game started b4 the end. You have very good reason to vote TS if he knows your play well (but his reasons were bad). I'm not going to use meta from that game to accuse you, though. I did not find your TS vote scummy in Candy Zoo, but I do here.

jilynne1991 wrote:Just out of curiosity, why don't we lynch vezok? He seems to not help much even if he is town, and if he's scum, yay!

Policy lynches (that is what your suggesting) are helpful sometimes, but we should focus on lynching scum first (since we had a mislynch D1)
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 8:55 am

Post by jilynne1991 »

So wait, are policy lynches just lynching people that you don't need or aren't helpful?
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 9:16 am

Post by ToastyToast »

lord_hur wrote:
ToastyToast wrote:1) I have no knowledge of meta and feel that it is an inadequate argument to lie on it solely. Scum who knows their town meta are going to try to make it identical. I similarly have a habit of getting into a "survival" mentality when town, but its not enough to base a town read on me.

You left out the most important question : what would be my scummy intent?

You don't want to die, lol. Its not a valid defense.

lord_hur wrote:
- My scumhunting isn't strong enough? God, I feel like I'm doing the only scumhunting that is not completely focused on me! No one but me even tries to find an alternate wagon!

what's your case on imaginality? 509 (you find his hopping sketch but say its no reason to vote him), 524 (I interpret this as a null read; also, the day went on for sufficient time), 540(1 scum game is not meta)

lord_hur wrote: I'm FUCKING furious to see my efforts at helping newbies called out at attempts to get any advantage. This would be utterly dishonorable. Newbies have to learn, and if your frame of mind was mainstream, no one would help them at all. Shame on you for doing this. That reminds me of that one time when I contemplated farside22 gaining extra info from normal use of her limited mod powers. I immediately and deeply apologized to her, even before she confronted me about it. I suggest you do the same. Insulting someone in this manner is very grave to me.

I already apologized, I didn't mean it as an attack. But an IC can be scum, and I think its important that jilynne's reads are not based off of someone teaching them. In other words, it should be done elsewhere.

lord_hur wrote:
I didn't hide my suspicion of both, and imaginality is up there as well, and slightly ahead. Can't see what's strange about this. I never said I'm town because he's bad at scumhunting. More importantly, trying to look good is a scummy frame of mind, so why would you vote me for not doing it? This is the second time you do this, and I'm beginning to think that you might be yourself in this frame of mind. You know, attempting to look good.

This is what it looks like when reading your slot today. "Hoppster is scum. Wait, ppl don't like me, I'm gonna be nice and gentlemanly when responding to inHim, but AV's giant post attack deserves RAGE. DEFEND. DEFEND. USUK. Oh, btw, I don't like imaginality."

lord_hur wrote:
ToastyToast wrote:3) I felt that the game was stagnating, so a claim might provide a time to look for reactions. Also, I always claim at L-1 in case some idiot decides to hammer.

Can you tell me in which games you did this?

Many games that I've been L-1 are not completed, but there is Cowboy Bebop

jilynne1991 wrote:So wait, are policy lynches just lynching people that you don't need or aren't helpful?

Yes
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 9:38 am

Post by jilynne1991 »

Who do you guys think are the top 3 candidates for being scum?
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 10:37 am

Post by Hoppster »

TT, you need to answer this.


jilynne1991 wrote:Who do you guys think are the top 3 candidates for being scum?

There are too many people who haven't been posting recently to answer this imo.
Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 10:45 am

Post by jilynne1991 »

Some people should start getting replaced out...
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 11:04 am

Post by ToastyToast »

Hoppster wrote:TT, you need to answer this.
jilynne1991 wrote:Who do you guys think are the top 3 candidates for being scum?

There are too many people who haven't been posting recently to answer this imo.


Right. You answered it yourself. I like activity, and the two of you were the most active (aside from myself and lord_hur).For you, its more like I
expect
you to be active, whereas I've never played with AV (but he's V/LA?)
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 11:08 am

Post by Hoppster »

Understood.

If for some reason or other we were unable to lynch lord_hur today, who would you want lynched?
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 11:18 am

Post by ToastyToast »

Hoppster wrote:Understood.

If for some reason or other we were unable to lynch lord_hur today, who would you want lynched?


Lynch preference: 1)lord_hur, 2)inHim(i haven't made a case really, but nothings changed on my read here), 3)Hoppster
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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 12:06 pm

Post by jilynne1991 »

Lord_hur


I'm going to go with the opinion I had of you before you helped me out, for the original reasons.

Are you at L-2 now?
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 12:08 pm

Post by jilynne1991 »

EBWOP:
Vote:Lord_hur
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 12:31 pm

Post by Feysal »

jilynne1991 [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3084971#p3084971]#610[/url] wrote:Feysal, may I ask your first impression of me? Also, what could I do better? (Actually could as many people as possible answer this question? Thank you.)

Well, the first thing that caught my eye about you was your first two posts. You first said you would post after reading the thread, and only 26 minutes later you declared town reads on inHim, Sir Hoppster and myself. At that point I had to wonder what those reads were based on, I mean, I am not the fastest reader myself but I don't think anyone could read the game that quickly. Unfounded reads are a common mafia tell, just so you know, especially if they change when it seems convenient.

Later on... your apparent enthusiasm comes off as townish. In my experience, newbie mafia tend to lurk and avoid taking stances, so I'm leaning that you're town.

I would still like to know the reasoning behind your reads though.

lord_hur [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3085331#p3085331]#614[/url] wrote:@Feysal: You seem to be quite uncommitting in this game. Only one vote so far... Who are you suspecting, and why?

Having few votes is fairly typical to my play. I think I have given reads, but they're scattered in my posts, so I should gather them in one place for my benefit as much as yours.

Town

Sir Hoppster

-
I find it very rare for mafia to push for a mislynch so boldly as he did, and as he has not displayed such boldness before, his play seems like tunnelling town to me. I might believe he could do it to save a partner, but since he kept pressure on Twistedspoon consistently while other suspects came and went, that possibility is rules out.
I wrote this before reading the last page, and this argument melted into WIFOM stew with Hoppster's final post. I'll have to rethink this, and probably check out his play in Candy Zoo in more detail.
AurorusVox/kpaca

- I had a good feeling about kpaca after his altercation with Twistedspoon, and I was pleased about AurorusVox as he entered the proceedings. He is tunnelling to be sure, but that is something town does when they believe they've caught a scoundrel, and he has given his reasons why he believes so. I believe he is town, and probably wrong.
jilynne1991/DemonHybrid/GMan

- The attendance record of this slot is quite horrid, and since I can barely recall anything of note from either of the gentlemen replaced by jilynne, my read is based solely on her exuberance, as I said above.
lord_hur/Caboose

- As above, I never had much of a read on Caboose, so this read is based on Lord Hur and his response to pressure from AurorusVox. He made his defense, and moved on with his hunt for suspects, like town is supposed to. I especially like the way he handled imaginality - that was an opportunity to deflect served on a silver platter, and he turned it down. I believe mafia would've leapt at the chance, unless of course bussing was involved.

Uncertain

inHimshallibe

- Townish side of null, but I don't recall seeing anything that would go further to convince me of his good intentions. He did not participate in the death of Twistedspoon and made an effort to evict kr0b instead, and I do agree with these actions of his.
vezokpiraka

- His joking approach to the game seemed carefree and townish, and I find it unlikely mafia would willingly draw attention to themselves like that. But apart from that, I've yet to see anything of significance arise from his play, leaving him as town-flavoured null.
Reya Cookiebringer/Apokalyptika

- I have no read on this slot at this time, what with posts having been so scarce. I intend to read their posts in isolation when I have a moment of time for it, to see if there was anything I missed or forgot since the first time.

Suspicious

ToastyToast/kr0b

- Solely because of kr0b, my read of ToastyToast is rather more neutral.
imaginality

- Very low presence, and his one action that stands out is his hammer of Twistedspoon.

lord_hur [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3085548#p3085548]#623[/url] wrote:I missed this. Yes, I'm french living in France, and Feysal is living in Finland (I read it in his meta).

I indeed live in Finland. I wonder what you mean by meta in this instance? There was a time once when I used my location as part of my defense, when I decided to go to sleep instead of doing yet another ISO read, but that was the only time I remember mentioning my location in a game. Not that this matters, just curious.
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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 12:35 pm

Post by jilynne1991 »

I know I seem very naive, but I find it so cool I'm interacting with people outside the United States!
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 12:35 pm

Post by ToastyToast »

just so I fully understand, what were your main problems with kr0b. His lurking was bad, but I think his posts were decent when he "tried"
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 12:41 pm

Post by jilynne1991 »

Reya Cookiebringer, I have a problem with you, since before Feysal brought up you're name, I totally forgot about you. If you're posting so little that I forget about you, that makes my mind go to scum. So, who do you think is the most suspicious? (Please don't ignore this question.)
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 12:51 pm

Post by Feysal »


No, that was L-1. Next vote would be the hammer, so don't. I have a town read on Lord Hur, and I really don't want to lynch one of our few members who actively contributes.

ToastyToast [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3087222#p3087222]#644[/url] wrote:just so I fully understand, what were your main problems with kr0b. His lurking was bad, but I think his posts were decent when he "tried".

I described my thoughts about kr0b in my post #368. I haven't reread him since, so I have nothing to add really. Basically, I liked him early on because his thoughts about the fancy talk making the game more difficult matched mine, and I tend to trust people whose thinking mirrors my own. I never got why so many were suspicious of him until I read his posts in isolation.
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 3:28 pm

Post by jilynne1991 »

Lord_hur can seem very sincere, but that's easy to fake since we're online, and he's my biggest lead at the moment. No one hammer please, I need a sec to reread somestuff.
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 3:30 pm

Post by Wraith »

lord_hur
is indeed at
L-1
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Mon May 30, 2011 3:37 pm

Post by jilynne1991 »

Your defensiveness hits me quite strongly. I believe that if you were really town, you would be less emotional.
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