Mini 1180: Game Over

[Substrike22]

Soben "replaces" Scumhunter, effective immediately, with my permission. Soben is a Hydra account of Scumhunter and Regfan. This will be the last Hydra I allow into this game, for those of you getting concerned with the number of Hydras.

[Soben]

Hello everyone, Regfan side of the hydra here. I've played with a few of you in the past and it's nice to see some new faces as well. With the exception of my replace in and catch-up post we won't be posting separately, instead we will be discussing our thoughts in our QT prior to posting thus there will be no need to sign our posts. I know this post is going to seem unbelievably long however I urge everyone to read the entirety of it and state what they have agreement or disagreement with.

The amount of discussion based around the advantages and disadvantages of the RVS and the RQS in this game is appalling. Players thoughts and opinions on both of these would be decided before entering the game and recieving their role meaning their stances are unallignment indicative. Futhermore attempting to attack a player because of their ability to use English is infuriatingly bad, if you were to read through just one of Ironheads town games you will notice his use of language is highly similar thus not an allignment related tell. I also strongly dislike the fact that it's being pushed that at least one of the town hydras has to be scum due to interactions becuase it's not the case at all, the only thing that interactions between them show is that they're not scum together.

I do need to hear from TheWayItEnds and Ironhead more before I can attain a read on any of them so: Ironhead and TheWayItEnds I want you all to state your thoughts on the WormyKrew wagon at the moment as well as if you feel it's scum or town propelled.

Town Reads:

Captain Corporal:

His predecessors actions before replacing out read as a geninue attempt at scumhunting and leaving information for his partner, Captains disagreement with his predecessors reads is something that mafia generally would avoid doing, as is openely asking for players reads and thoughts on their slot.

Secret Project:

The strength and aggression they showed about their reads earlier in the day reads as a geninue belief that they're correct. Their reaction to Jils claim and their actions following it is something I have massive trouble seeing them do as scum.

Wormy Krew:

I'm not seeing the case against them. The slip is semantics and is being pushed to the point where it's becoming a joke. Their hydra disagreements read as legitimate and there are many alternate places where they would place their vote as scum in this position. Their play also shows no ressemblance to Sleepys scum game, I suggest reading through Newbie 1098 to notice the massive differences in his play. I do dislike the fact that they have quietened down recently and would like them to explain and move their vote.

Mastin2:

]I'm finding this read slightly difficult to explain, part of it has to do with Flinters actions however minimal they are the rest has to do with his prevention and redirection of the attention towards DY and Alduskkel which I really like.

Monk:

Similar to Mastin I'm finding this hard to explain and it's probably a read I will have to revist at some point but his most recent post mentioning a document going missing reads as a slight-town tell as keeping notes or documents about a game is something I generally do as town but not scum.

Null Reads:

Jilynne1991:

Something that should probably be brought to light is the fact that she's not a new player, she's an alternate account of another player at this site. Proof of this is here though you'll need to attain access to Forum 62 to read it. I'm reading her play this game as an overexaggeration of her false newbie status and if you read her 'town slip' knowing she's not new it reads as highly suspicious. I however am apprehensive over lynching her at the current moment due to her claim, I'm willing to leave her to the side until tommorow.

Alduskkel

: I intensely dislike his lack of content in this game especially for someone as experienced as he is, though I'm unsure if I would consider the lack of content a scum-tell for him especially considering he openely stated he prefers to be scum, therefore would be more inclined to perform better as it.

Scum Reads:

WeirdAlex

: His play is exceedingly different to what I've seen from him in the previous game we played together and it's not because he's more experienced now, he's fencesat on nearly all of his suspicions and spent more time attempting to coach and assist Jilynne in the game than scumhunt himself. One thing I am positive on though is that if WeirdAlex or Jilynne ever flip scum the other is confirmed town.

DarthYoshi

: Although he started the game very active his posts decreased in quantity and quality to the point where he voted Wormy to gain a reaction while saying he's aiming for a reaction in the same post as the vote. This removes the entire point of the pressure vote and reads as opportunistic voting. I do have one qualm about this read though, I've observed one of his previous scum games and from memory he played remarkably differently so this reads is certaintly open to change.

Elsa

: I don't doubt that she's busy due to university finals however I believe she's exaggerating how much of a hinderance that is on her performance in this game. A game just finished very recently in which she put forward a massive amount of effort to it in comparison to this game. She also contradicts herself by stating that she was most suspicious of both of the hydras however earlier in the game she stated she was fairly positive that Secret Project was clean (town).

[Secret Project]

Soben is a Hydra account of Scumhunter and Regfan.

What the fuuuuuuu...

[jilynne1991]

Um, I am a new play, in fact. I'm not an alternate account. I don't know where that came from, but if you guys want me to, I can link you to the website I found about mafiascum on.

[DarthYoshi]

@Mod: While I generally approve of hydras, and am fine with them in a game's starting lineu letting a hydra replace in is kind of a stretch. Scumhunter should have gone solo in this p,game.

As far as Regfan's initial reads go, I agree with some but not all of them. Notably, he relies on meta to excuse the behaviors of WormyKrew, and to prosecute the cases for Elsa and Alex, but in MY case, he excuses the meta away instead. Can't have it both ways, mate.

As for my drop in activity and quality of presence, if you go through my games played list, you'll see that coincided with me being in LyLo in two other games, and so this game definitely got pushed to the back burner for a little while. Now those other games are over, and though I have some RL events coming up, I should be more dedicated to this game because it is the only one I'm playing in right now.

Also, please link to the Elsa game you alluded to. And you had better come up with a better reason for supporting a monk townread at this point in the game.

[DarthYoshi]

BTW, how exactly does the post you link to prove that Jily is an alt?

[WormyKrew]

@Captain Corporal: top 3 scum reads please.

@Mastin: Are you implying that Krew's statement is buddying? Cause if so that's weak. Really weak. Scumhunter reads as town.

Also @Mastin: Stop pussyfooting around your reads and just give cases. It saves us the time of trying to read your mind. Just explain yourself and try to be concise. If you can't, then oh well.

Also pointing out that the recent conversation between SP and alex reads as distancing.

-ear

[WormyKrew]

EBWOP: I can attest that Jil had in game experience with Vezo at the time of that post.

[jilynne1991]

Um yea, I'm currently in 9 games. Just finished one that I replaced into. LOL, I've been staying busy.

[Substrike22]

@Mod: While I generally approve of hydras, and am fine with them in a game's starting lineu letting a hydra replace in is kind of a stretch. Scumhunter should have gone solo in this p,game.

I thought about it a while and decided it didn't impact the game negatively; Scumhunter had only made a handful of posts, they retained Scumhunter's initial role, and therefore all that happened was I added a player to an already existant role. Additionally I didn't want to have to find what I saw as potentially a 4th D1 replacement, since I made the decision prior to Monk's post. If you had/have a serious issue with it, feel free to PM me about it (not that there's anything I can/will do about it at this point, but for future purposes) or discuss it in the after-game chat.

[jilynne1991]

Why do people have problems with hydras? They're just normal players...

[Secret Project]

Why do people have problems with hydras? They're just normal players...

Harder to get a read on because it allows the excuse of "we're a hydra" to say a lot of scummy things. For instance contradiction, vote hopping, or using collective pronouns, all usually identified as scum tells, can be excused for hydras.

[Ironhead]

Ironhead and TheWayItEnds I want you all to state your thoughts on the WormyKrew wagon at the moment as well as if you feel it's scum or town propelled.

I support the WormyKrew wagon because I think he is high-probability to be scum. WormyKrew attracted my attention early with his buddying to Secret Project, as well as his insistence on defending Secret Project from my accusations because he allegedly thought he was town (why not let Secret Project defend himself and demonstrate that he is town? Or wither under pressure and make you question your read? Etc). I also don't know how WormyKrew concluded so early that Secret Project was town.

The latest and most glaring issue with WormyKrew is his about-face on Secret Project -- as sudden and unexplained as his early town-read was, the scum-read is even more sudden and unexplained and stands in stark contrast to his earlier stance. So I think he has acted scummy; and therefore, I am comfortable with the wagon on him. There may be scum hiding in WormyKrew voters, but I think overall WormyKrew has given townies a reason to consider him scum and thus vote him. My opinion is that his wagon is town-propelled.

[Secret Project]

Anyway wagon is town-propelled. Duh. There will always be more town on a wagon than scum.

[Soben]

Yea, I would have been fine continuing solo as well. Regfan is a friend of mine from offsite and he seemed excited to play with this playerlist so I was like meh I suppose we can hydra as long as you do the work of okaying it with the mod.

[mastin2]

Scum Reads:
DarthYoshi

@Mod: While I generally approve of hydras, and am fine with them in a game's starting lineu letting a hydra replace in is kind of a stretch. Scumhunter should have gone solo in this p,game.

I'm sorry, but I really can't help but wonder if these two are related.

Also, Yoshi scumslipped. Similar to the WormyKrew one, albeit slightly different and admittedly weaker. Still catching up; will give more thoughts in a moment. (Been at my House workin' all day, sorry.)

[mastin2]

@Mastin: Are you implying that Krew's statement is buddying? Cause if so that's weak. Really weak.

Nope. Not buddying. I can say that in a clear, concise manner. (I might be a rambler, but I'm not THAT bad. )

Something else.

Also @Mastin: Stop pussyfooting around your reads and just give cases.

Been busy. It'll be better after tomorrow; I'll have tons of time. I just don't at this moment.

Caught up, but still busy.

Like I said, by Friday, plenty of time. Just not at this very moment.

[WormyKrew]

It started with a chainsaw defense of you, actually, which is null now, since however much I want to have you lynched, you're probtown so I shouldn't. He pushed jil for a while after she townslipped, trying to act like the chivalrous defender of lil ol' helpless town (I hate that, if you haven't noticed) and finding reasons for why she could be scum still that involved gambiting that is quite clearly out of her league. Been sheeping the hell out of me but as soon as my wagon starts looking a little popular he's on it. Lol. iso 34 is scummy. Maybe a little bit of a gut read. That's.... about it.

SP just said that chainsaws are scummy? Unless I'm reading this wrong, he admits to chainsawing. HOWEVER, I would like some clarification, just in case he's referring to somebody else chainsawing.
Question for mastin:
Saying "I like you." makes me scum o.o?
Another post in a second, gotta find something.

[WormyKrew]

Why do people have problems with hydras? They're just normal players...

Harder to get a read on because it allows the excuse of "we're a hydra" to say a lot of scummy things. For instance contradiction, vote hopping, or using collective pronouns, all usually identified as scum tells, can be excused for hydras.

The SecretProject hydra has been doing contradictions and votehopping all game. This hydra's heads have been in agreement and used our QT. Didn't somebody say we're scum for not talking in-thread?
~krew

[mastin2]

Saying "I like you." makes me scum o.o?

When combined with the following sentence, yes. Anatomy of posts is quite important. (Though admittedly, reading it can be a bit of a Grey area. )

[Alduskkel]

Man, I am too goddamn lazy sometimes. Reading, writing, and posting.

[Secret Project]

I'm reading this wrong

[Soben]

Jilynee, I'm going to continue to disbelieve this and arguing over it really is pointless, [Redacted] proves that you knew what a QT was before you asked about it in this thread therefore the noob-town read that people attained from that is incorrect.

DarthYoshi, my apologies if my replacing in was of any inconvience but I jumped at the opportunity to have a proper game with Scumhunter. Let me assure you though we will work towards having our reads be agreed upon so we don't become two different players playing in one slot. The game with Elsa is: Newbie 1103.

Ironhead, it is natural and understandable for WK to buddy SP considering the fact they're both new hydra accounts therefore in a similar position. I disagree with buddying being a strong scum-tell, if it were Mastin would be lynched in all of his games purely due to the amount of players he attempts to defend. I find them attaining a town-read on SP so early in the game to be believable considering I had the same read on SP in the early pages of the game. I however can agree that his recent change of stance on SP reads as odd and I really do want it explained in detail from both of their heads.

At the current moment the only scum-read that both Scumhunter and myself agree on is Elsa. The difference in he play here compared to her linked town-game is massive. In this game she has shown willingness to lurk, sheep the leading wagon and refrain from stating alternate reads. She has also shown intention to put Krew to L-1 without explaining her read of him or mentioning him at any point prior to this.

Elsa in #177 you state that you have a town-read on Secret Project but then proceeds to state that you were suspicious of both hydras in #469 without mentioning Secret Project at any point in time between these, what changed?

Vote: Elsa

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Rambling

disagree with buddying being a strong scum-tell, if it were Mastin would be lynched in all of his games purely due to the amount of players he attempts to defend.

Actually...

...[REDACTED - Ongoing].

(Short version short: I'm not as immune to lynching as I generally prefer to be. )

I think my sig does help, though. I thought about changing the sig for a long time, when I realized it fit me so well. (Granted, I'm far from a perfect scumhunter, and mislynch people just as often as I lynch correctly. And on rare occasions [*coughcoughpinecoughcough*], I defend someone who ISN'T a mislynch. But simple fact is, I generally tend to stop a LOT of mislynches from going through that would happen otherwise. To the point where scum have killed me not because my reads were correct [they were kinda quite off ], but because I was shutting down their preferred mislynches.)

[Alduskkel]

@Alduskkel--who do you suspect on the WormyKrew wagon, if anyone, and why?

I never said I suspected anyone on the wagon. I just said it was BS. I've said it before, I'll say it again: wrong =/= scummy.

Also, I don't think you answered this:

Actually, you know what, I do want to see what reaction this gets:

Unovte. Vote: WormyKrew.

Why would you announce that you just want to see his reaction? That completely negates the point of the vote -- if he's scum he can calculate his reaction and it won't be genuine.

I think I'd be okay with a Krew lynch at this point, based on the way he didn't let jily go in their exchange earlier and now has kind disappeared under pressure. I won't vote just yet, but that's something that I see a lot out of scum, at least when playing IRL (which is largely my base in playing mafia).

What do you mean, "based on the way he didn't let jily go"? What specifically was wrong with his interaction with jily?

SecretProject...ummm, my gut feeling is that your scum, but I'm nearly 100% sure that's because I don't really like playing with you. (No offence.) So your kind of a null read for me.

What. You're going to keep your vote on someone you have a null read on?

Secret Project, you're all antsy about Captain Corporal not answering your question. But I asked you a question in 307 which you ignored.

No, I don't care to elaborate at all.

Why not? More importantly, just answer the first damn question from 307.

Secret Project: I don't like their extreme level of aggressiveness. They have a way of pushing their cases that looks scum-motivated.

This is really vague. I know you haven't voted based on this suspicion and you said it was a weak read, but could you please explain what about Secret Project's pushing of cases looks scum-motivated? Why do you think extreme aggression is scummy?

Just a quick question - what does everyone think of me?
Actually two quick questions. Do you think asking for self reads is scummy?

1. Neutral on you, scummy on Gerhard. So overall scum read.
2. I haven't thought about it, but since I don't see a town motivation (while scum have an obvious motivation), probably, yeah.

I also like how you, like WK, are basically ignoring the reasons I'm giving for why your actions are suspicious, and instead just attacking me back.

Since when have you called Secret Project's actions suspicious?

Captains disagreement with his predecessors reads is something that mafia generally would avoid doing, as is openely asking for players reads and thoughts on their slot.

Disagree. When scum replace in they can pick any wagon they want because they have a clean slate and don't have to worry about contradicting themselves. And why would scum avoid asking about reads on their own slot? Scum are the most concerned about what others think of them, if they can get away with asking then that's great for them.

One thing I am positive on though is that if WeirdAlex or Jilynne ever flip scum the other is confirmed town.

Why?
---
Mastin is really frustrating me, but if he posts his damn reads and his reasoning too by the end of the weekend I'll forgive him some.

Speaking of lack of content, I am seriously going to try and ramp up my posting frequency/content in this game. I don't know if anyone else is, but I am personally disgusted with my play up to now.