Mini 1180: Game Over

[MrBump]

SP’s #550: If by “the unanimous ‘Darth is scum,” you mean you and Mastin, then yeah. What I want to know is why you are so adamant in agreeing with Mastin that I am scum when in that very same post, you’re tearing Mastin a new one for pretty much the same reasons I have been all game—posting craploads of fluff, not explaining anything, etc. Also, what exactly about WK’s recent posts (and I want specific examples) “scream” town to you? Whichever head wrote those words is the head I want answering that question; I don’t care if you two are split on him.

MrBump here, still catching up.

First of all, if by the time I finish reading and Mastin hasn't posted any god damned reads, I will flip a bitch.

Now, onto business. Did I say you were scum? I'm pretty sure I haven't done so once in this game.

In a display of complete hypocrisy I really don't have time to go and get specific examples, but for a while WK's posts gave off the "annoyed town" vibe rather than anything else. Recently, though, his "nonchalant" scumhunting; as if he's trying to force us in a direction without us noticing; is worrying.

@Pac, dreadfully sorry, you can re-vote WK if he's at L-2. If he's at L-1, wait for a claim, obviously.

[Secret Project]

Heh heh. My bad.

SP’s #550: If by “the unanimous ‘Darth is scum,” you mean you and Mastin, then yeah. What I want to know is why you are so adamant in agreeing with Mastin that I am scum when in that very same post, you’re tearing Mastin a new one for pretty much the same reasons I have been all game—posting craploads of fluff, not explaining anything, etc. Also, what exactly about WK’s recent posts (and I want specific examples) “scream” town to you? Whichever head wrote those words is the head I want answering that question; I don’t care if you two are split on him.

MrBump here, still catching up.

First of all, if by the time I finish reading and Mastin hasn't posted any god damned reads, I will flip a bitch.

Now, onto business. Did I say you were scum? I'm pretty sure I haven't done so once in this game.

In a display of complete hypocrisy I really don't have time to go and get specific examples, but for a while WK's posts gave off the "annoyed town" vibe rather than anything else. Recently, though, his "nonchalant" scumhunting; as if he's trying to force us in a direction without us noticing; is worrying.

@Pac, dreadfully sorry, you can re-vote WK if he's at L-2. If he's at L-1, wait for a claim, obviously.

[Captain Corporal]

I'm really not seeing TWIEscum, but I'm open to duscussion on that. Elsa still seems scummiest to me, what with her blatant contradictions and all.

[brokenscraps]

You're very much on the right track with Elsa-scum, and almost totally for the right reasons. But it isn't the apparent contradictions on the issues of meta, nor the link between Elsa's comments on her own lurking as a scummy activity and her actual lurking (it is quite a bit more her self-admitted inability to keep her petty reads straight). You can pretty much ignore the rabble of her contentlessness and her shifty reads (ALTHOUGH this definitely is true and counts against her) and she would still be bad just for her lurking play adopted in this game.

Key is that this sticks on a number of players this game. When it has been stuck on TWIE the reaction has been bad, thereby solidifying the issues with TWIE.

Elsa has in fact v/la-ed/lurked her way through in an even more avoiding manner, and has been a slippery character. This is bad so I would agree something must be done; when she comes back she must know she will die tonight.

unvig-vote: wierdalex

vig-vote: Elsa

[Captain Corporal]

Since I think Elsa will be going down at night, unless a RB occurs, I suppose I should start looking for the other scum :U

Re-reading to get more reads. I honestly can't see another scum here.

[Soben]

We're not lynching TWIE today, lol, stop it.

This is so bad on so many levels.

-Why can't we lynch TWIE today?
-Why are you trying to lock the lynch in on WK?
-Do you have any opinion on TWIE's alignment?

[MrBump]

Lynching someone or indeed voting them PURELY off meta is absolutely horrible.
Based off reactions TWIE does look scummier, but not enough to warrant a lynch. Currently, people are making cases based off meta and PoE (which I assume is Process of Elimination). This is not good. We need a flip of some sort to stifle discussion or possibly link some teams. TWIE I could accept lynching another day, perhaps.

Also, I read the whole thread.
Mastin has not posted reads.
Why don't I have Jily's role?
*flips a bitch*

[Secret Project]

AGH, SORRY! I'm swapping accounts a lot as I'm hosting a game soon >.>

Lynching someone or indeed voting them PURELY off meta is absolutely horrible.
Based off reactions TWIE does look scummier, but not enough to warrant a lynch. Currently, people are making cases based off meta and PoE (which I assume is Process of Elimination). This is not good. We need a flip of some sort to stifle discussion or possibly link some teams. TWIE I could accept lynching another day, perhaps.

Also, I read the whole thread.
Mastin has not posted reads.
Why don't I have Jily's role?
*flips a bitch*

[Soben]

Our fos isn't based purely on meta. If it were though, there would be nothing wrong with it. Metagame is 100% relevant AND VALID to anything of a competitive nature. It is why baseball players pitch around Albert Pujols and decide to pitch aggressively to AAA scrubs. They know what he is capable of in the past and adjust their play accordingly.

[Soben]

Alright Secret Project, I'm willing to offer youi a proposal. We both attempt to summarize the case against our FoS in bulletpoints, then it's the other persons job to read the case with an open mind and respond to which parts they believe is legitimate and which they believe is incorrect.

[Secret Project]

I'm up for that. It'll have to be in like 7-8 hours though.

[mastin2]

Bad Timing: V/LA

. Due to Broadstripe kinda messing up my internet. I yelled at 'em, so they should fix it, but 'til then...

[SleepyKrew]

You're fucking kidding, right mastin?

[WormyKrew]

You're fucking kidding, right mastin?

Who is this kid and why won't he stop posting in this thread?
Anyway, I've fallen a bit behind recently (ashamed to say). Could someone please repost anything they want me to address?

[Soben]

Anyway, I've fallen a bit behind recently (ashamed to say). Could someone please repost anything they want me to address?

Jesus christ, I think you're town but I'm not going to continue defending you if you're not going to put in the effort needed for this game. There's two of you, together you should be able to see what needs addressing as well as actually atttempt to put forward and explain some reads.

[DarthYoshi]

Soben’s #670: Fair enough. I still maintain WK is the scummiest player so far, but I can def see how Elsa is scummier than Alex, and all I need is for one of them to flip scum for me to basically clear the other as town, so,

Un-vig vote Alex, vig vote Elsa.

Also, Yoshi, I blatantly disagree eith you on this issue of post #542. I am not required to push. I am required to scumhunt. Which, in post #544, I show I can do WITHOUT pushing. I've seen pushing get the wrong result too many times.

Then I guess I should be asking what “pushing” is to you, and why you think it gets the wrong result, because what I hear you saying is that town shouldn’t be aggressive, which is almost always a losing strategy.

TWIE, your top 3 suspects and reasons for suspecting them. Go.

Elsa is also currently a dead slot due to the painful lurking and deficiency in town play but has more of an option to recover. Play better (in this case this largely means more) and I won't assume you're horrible lurker scum.

Why on earth are you coaching one of your scumreads?

Also, please explain your town read on Capt Corporal. I srsly don’t get why so many players are so convinced this guy is town, he’s done nothing of the sort to convince me of that.

Also, your back and forth with TWIE is making my head hurt. Jus’ sayin’.

I am still confident in my read of Alduskkel -- I thinks his ISO #4, 5, 7, and 13 are townish.

Okay, we’re going to have to do this the long way…what ABOUT his ISOs 4, 5, 7, and 13 seem townish to you?

@SP: Why aren’t we lynching TWIE today again? Also, I’m still waiting for an answer on why you moved your vig vote from me to Alex.

Did I say you were scum? I'm pretty sure I haven't done so once in this game.

Your playslot expressed suspicion of me in your ISO #78, and in your ISO #120 you vig-voted me.

@CaptCorporal: Why aren’t you seeing TWIE scum?

[mastin2]

Alright. Got internet back. Reading the thread. (But you know the Drill: things won't likely change in my Mind.)

[mastin2]

First, why are you spoilering absolutely everything now?

I spoil anything I think to be too long. I often overestimate the length, ironically enough.

Second, you came into the game with me as your #1 scumread, but now the only reason I’m scum is PoE? WTF? Also, PoE is at its weakest on D1—it becomes far more useful as the game progresses.

This is a blatant strawman of my viewpoint. PoE was ONE of the reasons. Not the ONLY reason.

I'll work on an Elsa-->Town case, since you all seem so intent on letting her get massacred unnecessarily.

If the reasoning behind his initial push from Iron to WK is in there and satisfactory, I'll be less inclined to believe that he is.

Uh, not sure I understand this. If you mean, "pushing people off of Iron and onto WK", that's accurate, but if you mean me pushing Iron as scum and switching to WK, that didn't happen. The wording's a bit ambiguous.

Also.

We're Lurking Hunting.

Elsa.
Alex.
TWIE.

Know what that generally leads to?

Mislynches. Misvigs. A whole lot of nothing. (I know Lurking better than most people. Divided it into three types traditionally, and recently developed a fourth type. I tend to be good at picking up the difference between scum lurking and town lurking. Having lurked as scum and lurked as town, having seen lurking town and lurking scum, I picked up the subtle differences. And guess what? Elsa, TWIE, and maybe even Alex don't seem to be displaying said scum lurking. I'll obviously need to double-check this, review it some more, but I don't think my opinion on the matter will change--they're most likely mislynches.)

I must apologize for my lack of Wall with the promised reads--as mentioned, it was due to my internet failing ~24 hours ago and not getting fixed until very recently. This obviously left me cut off from working here.

/Caught Up. Will resume work, now that I have access again.

[DarthYoshi]

This is a blatant strawman of my viewpoint. PoE was ONE of the reasons. Not the ONLY reason.

O Rly? If there are other reasons, you aren't giving them. Let me pull the quote that I was replying to, verbatim, from your list of reads in your #597:

7. DarthYoshi <--Scum? Kinda Process of Elimination, one of the main suspects.

Mastin, you have spent the entirety of your involvement in this game loudly proclaiming that I am scum, but aside from alluding to a mythical scumslip that you still have never pointed out, and this PoE material (the weakness of D1 PoE having already been pointed out by me), you haven't said why. Ever. Seriously. Re-read your ISO. I'm not strawmanning you, I'm literally replying to the only evidence you have deigned to offer so far as to my scumminess. If you want to offer more, by all means do. Like I said, I would love to have the chance to convince you that I am indeed town. But until you do so, seriously, Mastin, fuck off.

[Soben]

We're Lurking Hunting. Elsa. Alex. TWIE. Know what that generally leads to? Mislynches. Misvigs. A whole lot of nothing. And guess what? Elsa, TWIE, and maybe even Alex don't seem to be displaying said scum lurking. I'll obviously need to double-check this, review it some more, but I don't think my opinion on the matter will change--they're most likely mislynches.)

The cases about Elsa and TWIE don't just revolve around lurking. There's multiple contradictions and inconsistencies that have been pointed out which you continue to ignore. I know that you enjoy tunnelling on your own reads but you're really ignoring any other case that's put up that isn't created by you or based around one of your FoS's. I'm going to echo DarthYoshi's thoughts here, respond to the cases put against TWIE and Elsa, point out what you disagree with until you do so, seriously, Mastin, fuck off.

[mastin2]

Yoshi, I pointed out the scumslip already, and admitted it was weak. I have other reasons to think you're scum, and am working on explaining it. It's not something which I can say out of the blue,
"Yoshi is scum because of X, Y, and Z."

Believe me, I'd love to. But my mind doesn't work that way. Converting my thought process into more traditional terms like, "Yoshi is scum because of X, Y, and Z." Takes me hours to do, and I have been suffering setback after setback in Real Life hindering me further. I'm working on it. That's really all I can say. Communication is my weakest point. I cannot convey easily what I intend to. If it were that easy, I'd be magnitudes better of a scumhunter. (Refer to my sig--not my job to be convincing, my job to be right.) Knowing Is Half The Battle. Explaining being the other half, and the explaining half, I REALLY suck at.

The cases about Elsa and TWIE don't just revolve around lurking.

But that is one of the main central points. They were brought into attention for...their lurking. Other points were developed after that, but the simple fact is that they weren't under nearly as much pressure until their lurking was brought up. AKA, a lurker hunt.

You can throw contradictions and inconsistencies in there all you want. But the fact remains, those are being used as icing on the cake, for a Lurker Hunt. That's what I get when I read the thread. When I read the cases against them, I don't see "They're scum because of X, Y, and Z. Add to that, they're lurking."

I see, "Lurking. More Lurking. Oh, and X, I suppose. Not to mention, Lurking. And here's more Lurking. Oh, look at Y; that's more against them. Don't forget the Lurking."

That's what the Language Filters tell me when I read the cases against them. Lurking as the spearhead, the main point against them, with all other points meant to merely support the Lurking accusation.

[TheWayItEnds]

Case on Wierdalex is clearly garbage. I don't need to explain why. It is a bad reason. You done bad.

What is with the theory/abstracts debates? I hate these stupid disputes over nothing that have plagued this town. It doesn't matter what you think it the best play or how town should act or what is the best all time great tell than everyone should bow to and we should lynch anyone who disagrees with the wording (this isn't anyone in particular these problems are endemic) the one thing that is damn obvious is that having posts filled with nothing but disputes over what is the best play is down there with the worst all plays. And when it is sustained with a clear absence of any other contribution you have prime lynch material, the top shelf stuff, let's get on with the scum killing.

And *DING DING DING* TWIE fits! It is a choice match!

But for someone who is so concerned with telling us the right way to play you sure seem down on yourself. Yes you are missing everything. You are not playing to overcome this. You are exploiting your absence of reads, the base state of fake scumhunters.

You are a weasel more concerned with create escape opportunity discord than clarifying the actual non-abstracts of this game. Preferably makes posts that aren't scummy or aren't reasons why we should ignore your scumminess.

As for why my vote is currently not on you.... thats easy.

You drop a post full of meta and a vote.
I point out why its terrible, drop a vote on you.
You cry OMGUS, attempting to defeat an argument with a word.
That doesn't work for me.
Instead I build a case over several posts before voting, so that if you try to cry OMGUS... you just look ridiculous.
That's why my vote appears stagnant at times. (Oh stagnant votes don't make me look town? Don't care.)

AND THIS IS YOUR EXCUSE FOR BEING A WEASEL?

Understand this: you are practically dead to me and should be dead to the rest of the town. You are solidifying your role as weasel. If you somehow are town you should know: you're not helping. You are hurting the town. You are not making a case on Soben if that is what you have deluded yourself into thinking. You are making weasel plans, and your effort to make someone look bad can only come from the twisted mind of an anti-town player. Which is why you're not town. Which is why we should be voting you.

Dismiss an argument with a word? Soben's play has not been how you wish to categorize it. Why are you so paranoid? You know you're scum. You're worried about how your vote-sitting looks and you are worried about how voting Soben without a case will look.

Solution: dismiss the vote sitting for no real reason; justify your future vote for Soben by claiming that you defending yourself is somehow making a cogent and effective case for Soben being the most scummy; tie it all together into one dodgy section.

Avant-garde weasel genius.

confirm vote

I just want to dismiss this post for being pants on head retarded, but I can't seem to.
So here we go again.

In summary:
"blah blah blah. You can't tell people how to play. blah blah blah, I dislike your playstyle, confirm vote."
If you keep making posts like this, at least I can laugh at all the delicious irony that will be present in this game.

I'm not telling you the right way to play. I'm fucking telling you how I play. Blatant misreps are fun though aren't they.
That's not my excuse, thats me speaking in general. I dislike dropping votes onto people that have recently voted me because they get the easy mode out of "OMGUS". Was Soben going to do that if I thought he deserved my vote? Who the fuck knows? I don't, nor do I care. When I move my vote I want a tangible explainable reason for doing so. If I don't have one, I'm not moving it.

"oh but you moved your vote onto alex! OMG OMG scum lynch."
No shit. Because jily, my RVSish vote claimed PR. Alex was good enough for a page 5? vote. We are no longer on page 5.
At this point I would expect legitimate cases for votes. Or at least be blatant that you're sheeping.

Would you like it more if I unvoted?... Wait... I don't give a fuck.
Alex is not currently in any danger of being lynched, I'm clearly not pushing for his lynch, why the fuck does it matter?
Oh right, it doesn't.

[Soben]

Simple laid out reasons for why we believe TheWayItEnds is mafia are listed below, SecretProject and Mastin I'm expecting you both to state which ones you have disagreements about.

• Excessive amount of fencsitting and refrainment from stating reads or doing anything that ressembles scumhunting.

• His excuse revolving around lack of setup understanding while not showing any initiative to look into it (ie. Wiki, Past games)

• Misrepresentation #1 - Him stating that we were yelling for a quicklynch to remove him when we asked him to provide more content intially.

• Contradiction #1 - Him stating he had strong-town reads in past games while also saying he doesn't want town-reads and doesn't believe town-tells exist.

• Contradiction #2 - Him stating that the reason for not voting us is that he doesn't want us to yell OMGUS (ie. He cares about his image) while also saying he doesn't care if his vote on Alex is bad (ie. He doesn't care about his image)

[TheWayItEnds]

If you're going to use bullshit meta me and then call for votes because of it, then I'm going to explain exactly why your bullshit meta is bullshit meta.

Firstly, the usage of meta wasn't bullshit and I believe I've proven this. Secondly meta wasn't the entire reason for our vote on you it consisted of the fact that you were lurking in a manner that showed no attempt at scumhunting or stating of reads whatsoever something that mafia gain something from doing whereas town don't. You seem content to continue to ignore this aspect of the case against you and instead scream 'Meta bullshit!' over and over again.

You want a legitimate defense to your bullshit meta argument? Alright.
Go read the first day of Newbie 1066. (My first Newbie)
Go read the first day of Open 275. (My first Open)

If you can do that and come back here and say "TWIE didn't active lurk through day 1 of both of his first games on new sections of the site, hes only done that in this one. Hes sooo scum lynchlynchlynchlynch."
Then maybe we can have a legitimate argument.

Until that time... (never) I will be treating your bullshit meta as bullshit meta.

As for why my vote is currently not on you.... thats easy. You drop a post full of meta and a vote. I point out why its terrible, drop a vote on you.

You cry OMGUS, attempting to defeat an argument with a word.

That doesn't work for me. Instead I build a case over several posts before voting, so that if you try to cry OMGUS... you just look ridiculous. That's why my vote appears stagnant at times. (

Oh stagnant votes don't make me look town? Don't care.

)

You just stated two contradicting thought processes, you state that you don't care how people percieve your play or if it doesn't seem town while also saying that the sole reason for witholding from voting me is because then I would call OMGUS and you would look bad.

Are you fucking kidding me?
You must be fucking kidding me.
I'm going to go on the assumption that you are fucking kidding me.
OMGUS doesn't make me look bad. It's the easiest way to degrade an argument before even reading into the argument, then I'm stuck having to justify my vote as something besides OMGUS, something it never was. It's an easy fucking out that I don't want to deal with.

mastin has been promising a wall... I don't know if you saw that or not. If the reasoning behind his initial push from Iron to WK is in there and satisfactory, I'll be less inclined to believe that he is. If his reasoning is weak or missing, then i will have to believe that he may have had scum motivation in doing so. Its. A. Possibility.

It's also a possibility that the worlds going to end tommorow but I don't sit around doing nothing because I'm unsure if it's the case or not. You have to reach conclusions in this game and then attempt to back them up, reasses them or continue with them, this is again something you haven't done once.

You know that assumption I made where you were fucking kidding me?
Yeah I take it back, it just dawned on me that you were serious once I read this.

If I point out that mastin's reasoning for WK scum happened after he was already pushing the wagon, and then go on to say that I would like to see the real reasons (if they exist).
The only conclusion that I can come to from that is that I'm suspicious of the mastin push.
That his push of the WK wagon looks like a scum push.
That mastin could be scum.

Thats the fucking only direction that I can take that.
If I want to wait around for the fucking wall to confirm those suspicions then thats my fucking wont to do so.

Amazing content you got there yourself.

Are you honestly attempting to attack someone else for a lack of content when I just summarized the entirety of your content throughout the game this far which was almost nothing.

Not attacking, pointing out the fucking irony.
I FUCKING CLARIFIED THAT FOR YOU.

[TheWayItEnds]

If the reasoning behind his initial push from Iron to WK is in there and satisfactory, I'll be less inclined to believe that he is.

Uh, not sure I understand this. If you mean, "

pushing people off of Iron and onto WK

", that's accurate, but if you mean me pushing Iron as scum and switching to WK, that didn't happen. The wording's a bit ambiguous.

Slightly ambiguous yes, but only one of those choices happened.....