A Gentleman's Game of Guile, Subterfuge, and Intrigue (Fin)

[ToastyToast]

Point is that Feysal makes long, descriptive posts. He also doesn't skim. Is he in the background? Yes, and its very troubling. I just was so sure he was town when I first joined the game.

this is why I just want to lynch inHim. He's so much more likely to be scum than anyone else in this game.

Also, another problem I just found with inHim's case on Feysal is that its reliant on me flipping scum. This is poor because 1)Using associations b/w a scum-team when not a single scum member has flipped is often very inaccurate. 2)We're in MYLO, we need to be thinking about "who's the scummiest," not "who has an interesting posting relationship with people who could be scum"

inHim:LOL TT HAS TO BE SCUM SO THAT MEANS FEYSAL'S SCUM TOO
TT:inHim is scum. I have other scum reads but will not go after them until inHim flips.

I think we have to move on with the game. It's stagnating.

vote inHim and make the world a better place.
I have full confidence in my read on him.

[jilynne1991]

ToastyToast, why don't you just share your other scumreads?

Also, I'm sure you have full confidence in your read on him, you just need to convince us to do that too!

I have to say if he flips scum, that will get you alot of town points, but if he flips town, I'll be keeping my eye on you.

[AurorusVox]

Jily, if he flips town, scum have likely won the game.

Can you rank the players in order from those you are most suspicious of to those you are least suspicious of?

[jilynne1991]

Ok, this is from least suspicious to most suspicious.

Town:
jilynne1991
imaginality

Leaning Town:
Feysal
Aurorus Vox
Sir Hoppster

Null:
ToastyToast
vezopiraka

Leaning Scum:
inHimshallibe

[imaginality]

jilynne, why is vezopiraka in your null category?

[jilynne1991]

He is confusing and I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

[imaginality]

What do you think about lord_hur's investigation of him (where he 'found nothing incriminating')? lord_hur has flipped town so he wasn't lying about that...

[jilynne1991]

OMG, ok sorry, I have this huge project due to tomorrow since I procrastinated and all, so I wasn't thinking right. Ok, instead he's supposed to go under you in the Town group.

[vezokpiraka]

unvote
vote inhim

Yep he's probably scum. I think hopp is scum with him too.

[jilynne1991]

You guys really have to be careful, I don't think we're in a very good position at the moment.

[ToastyToast]

You guys really have to be careful, I don't think we're in a very good position at the moment.

You yourself said you think inHim is scum.

[inHimshallibe]

Point is that Feysal makes long, descriptive posts. He also doesn't skim. Is he in the background? Yes, and its very troubling. I just was so sure he was town when I first joined the game.

this is why I just want to lynch inHim. He's so much more likely to be scum than anyone else in this game.

Also, another problem I just found with inHim's case on Feysal is that its reliant on me flipping scum. This is poor because 1)Using associations b/w a scum-team when not a single scum member has flipped is often very inaccurate. 2)We're in MYLO, we need to be thinking about "who's the scummiest," not "who has an interesting posting relationship with people who could be scum"

inHim:LOL TT HAS TO BE SCUM SO THAT MEANS FEYSAL'S SCUM TOO
TT:inHim is scum. I have other scum reads but will not go after them until inHim flips.

I think we have to move on with the game. It's stagnating.

vote inHim and make the world a better place.
I have full confidence in my read on him.

This is flawed because WE'RE IN MYLO. That is mislynch and LOSE. So, to be able not to MISLYNCH, we need to figure out everyone NOT TO LYNCH. THEREFORE, A WHOLE TEAM.

We could certainly No Lynch, as we're all making this assumption that it really is MyLo, and in fact it probably is better that way, BUT, the only people that have even the slightest chance of dying are Vezok and Imaginality, maybe Jilynne, and then we're in the same boat tomorrow. I have convinced myself beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt that I am correct, and will push this Town to victory.

[inHimshallibe]

Also, from Toasty... "FEYSAL IS VERY TROUBLING BUT I JUST WANT TO LYNCH INHIM."

You all HAVE to see this. Put yourself in my spot and read that post again. Do you not understand why I'm going bonkers over lynching Toasty?

[inHimshallibe]

Sir K. Paca:

My apologies for my delay in returning my fellow goodfellows, but I was forced to leave in order to prepare my records for some forthcoming examinations.

I must say that I am appalled at the desires for a policy lynch, as such a thing is not in any way conductive to pro-town motives. It's actually a good way for scum to slip in a quick one.

However, I may be a fan of lynching vezokpiraka. My previous experience with him confirms the fact that he is quite odd in his mannerisms, so I'm not exactly put off by that. However, vezok, IF YOU DO NOT STOP RPing I WILL VOTE YOU.

Additionally, I am not at all a fan of his "reasons" for voting Krob. It is completely off base and vezoks abilities to actually gauge a reaction are less than zero, and I'm pretty sure he knows that.

I must also say that I'm not at all a fan of strangercoug, but would like to let my feelings on that matter mature a bit more before moving forward with such a thing.

At the moment I'm fine not voting at all, at least for a little while.

This is his first real content post, and he comes in with a particularly astute assessment of Sir V. Piraka. Vezok does have a disreputable history, and this point is so blindingly honest I can't see scum making it.

Follows this up with some "not gonna vote yet guys, and you can't make me" type posts, that would be more pandering and giving in if he were a Villain.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3009405 - vote on experience here that I just can't see scum making the case, as that type of interpretation of play is more likely to be scrutinized.

Aurorus Vox, PhD bleeds obvtown to me, but I will bring up particular well-faceted points of his in just a moment.

[Hoppster]

What do you think about lord_hur's investigation of him (where he 'found nothing incriminating')? lord_hur has flipped town so he wasn't lying about that...

lord_hur was a flavour cop, not a cop.

I've never played with a flavour cop before but I do believe there is a difference in that the flavour cop only investigates, well, flavour. Not alignment. Flavour may point to one alignment but won't confirm it like an actual cop investigation (to the best of my knowledge).

(Plus, there's the possibility of vezok being a Godfather, etc.)

Having said this, vezok is probably town due to everybody's immediate acceptance of him as town, as I would expect any scumbuddies of vezok-scum to have brought up this earlier (that of him not being confirmed town).


I am satisfied with either an inHim or ToastyToast lynch today. While I do have pangs of doubt over their alignment at times, my overall feeling is that they are both very likely scum (together).


inHim's cases (on interactions) are poor, and I really do not believe they would come from town.

Lynch preference: 1)lord_hur, 2)

inHim(i haven't made a case really, but nothings changed on my read here)

, 3)Hoppster

AKA "heey I know this dude is scum 'cos he's my scumbuddy, so I don't need to make a case".

I do not believe this is conclusive at all, and I know in my heart it is just me basing something on confirmation bias. It holds no paticular weight in a case. However, inHim's cases seem to consist of simply several posts which he has interpreted in a similar way to how I have interpreted ToastyToast's.

I know from my gentlemanly-perspective that I would not be confident enough to make a big deal out of interactions (like I have done in the example above), however inHim seems to have no problem in doing so, and from this I am concluding that inHim is scum (although I did think that likely anyway).

LOL AT FEYSAL LISTING HOPPSTER AND TOASTYTOAST AS "UNCERTAIN." TOO AFRAID TO PUT THEM AS LYNCHABLE WHEN YOU'RE IN MYLO TODAY?

This in paticular is quite damning on inHim. If

anything

, I would feel that putting 2 people in 'uncertain' rather than lynchable is a gentleman-tell.

Paticularly as inHim seems to believe Feysal is in the scum-team with ToastyToast and myself, this would make less sense coming from Feysal-scum (in a team with TT and myself).

Feysal-scum (with TT and myself) would surely be

more inclined

to put his scumbuddies in lynchable rather than uncertain, knowing TT and myself to be scum.


And if we look closer at inHim's post:

LOL AT FEYSAL LISTING HOPPSTER AND TOASTYTOAST AS "UNCERTAIN." TOO AFRAID TO PUT THEM AS LYNCHABLE WHEN

YOU'RE IN MYLO TODAY

?

How does he know Feysal is in mylo? Feysal is only in mylo if he is town. If Feysal is scum (as inHim is strongly pushing), then Feysal is NOT in mylo.

Conclusion: inHim scum.

(That's intent to vote inHim.)

[inHimshallibe]

What, no? Everyone is in MyLo... Feysal as scum would be winning because of it.

Don't twist those words.

Also, as scum in apparent MyLo, it makes sense to keep your buddies close to the top of your scumlist, but not at the very top, because if you get that very top lynched, you win, but if something you can't foresee happening happens, well then you're still in good position with the Town overall. GRAH My fellow Gentlemen, see the twisting and the spinning!

[inHimshallibe]

However, inHim's cases seem to consist of simply several posts which he has interpreted in a similar way to how I have interpreted ToastyToast's.

THEN PUT YOUR BLOODY VOTE WHERE YOUR BLOODY MOUTH IS OR STFU YOU VILLAINOUS HEATHEN.

All the spin is coming around full force.

Toasty - Well... inHim and Feysal are probably scum, but I'mma vote inHim.
Feysal - Well... I'm uncertain about Toasty and Hoppster, but inHim is lynchable.
Hoppster - Well... inHim and I are interpreting Toasty's posts similarly, but they're probably scum together (???) and I'm gonna vote inHim.

If Town lets this atrocity happen before their very eyes, I will take some blame for not being a shiny beacon of towniness, but now that my ass is in gear, it's up to YOU ALL to solve it with me.

[inHimshallibe]

Oh, I just reread Hoppster's case on both Toasty and I. LOL. He thinks we're both scum but is only going to hitch his horse to MY wagon?

OH. MY. GOD.

If you're Town, unvote me.

[ToastyToast]

@Hoppser: That was supposed to be directed to you O.o. I've said plenty about inHim

@inHim: My read on Feysal isn't strong enough to vote him yet. Not to mention the fact that I said I was leaning more towards AV as scum. AV asked me about Feysal, so I responded with some of the reasons why I'm not confident yet.

[Feysal]

Meh, that wasn't the complete Feysal case. Also, since they're one-liners, I figure they'll be easy to respond to.

Pretty much yes. I'll get to responding to them presently.

Setting up not having to attack Hoppster for the ragematch against Twistedspoon.

You are interpreting my comment in light of what transpired after it, not the time when it was made. This was my first post in the game, and not being clairvoyant, I could not have foreseen that the verbal match between Hoppster and Twistedspoon would escalate the way it did, and lead to the latter's mislynch. Not only that, your logic is completely flawed, as I later criticized Hoppster for not having learned from his earlier match of wits with Twistedspoon.

I can easily point to an example of the kind of feud I was referring to. In my first game ever, the hitmen of two opposing mafia factions targeted each other during night zero, and I've seen them poking and voting each other in later games with minimal reason. But, their feud has never escalated into anything more serious like we saw here. What I meant with my comment was that I saw the early exchange between Hoppster and Twistedspoon as little more than random banter over some shared history I was not familiar with, and as such it was not indicative of either's alignment.

Completely non-committal on the policy lynch talk, not wanting.

Was it really? I saw TheLonging as pushing a policy lynch of vezokpiraka and finding him suspicious for essentially the same behavior. I did not like that. I thought at the time that TheLonging was simply seeking his death, and had little interest in whether he truly was scum.

Undecided but town.

No, just undecided. I thought that the attack on kr0b for his use of the word perhaps was weak, and he had done well defending himself. Successfully defending yourself from a poor case is not indicative of alignment though, leaving him as null at the time. Although I admit, his talk about the intricate language being a hindrance to scumhunting did please me, as I tend to trust people whose thinking matches mine, but I know that tell is not reliable.

OHAI GUIZE DEM POINTS ABOUT KROB ARE GOOD BUT I DON'T WANT TO VOTE MY PARTNER SO I'LL INSTEAD PICK ON THE ORIGINS OF THE WAGON.

I stand by what I said. If the origins of a wagon are weak and the credible arguments are added later, that makes the wagon suspect in my eyes. This is exactly how I was mislynched in Storm of Swords, had one scum attack me for an absurd reason, and his tunnellinng brought other scum and townies on board with better reasons, sealing my fate.

After this, nothing more on kr0b, and has since kept ToastyToast as a neutral read here, here, and drops him a peg here. Strange how he can have a neutral read on the current player in the slot and still keep that player in his most suspicious tier. And then crunch time comes and he bumps Toast down a peg. Puh-lease.

I don't see any reason to dwell on kr0b after he was replaced. And the neutral read I gave ToastyToast was based on his posts and his posts alone. I do not mean to imply that a replacement player should be given a clean slate, but if there is a mismatch between reads on the replacement and the player he replaced, there is cause for reconsideration.

By the way, in my latest list of reads I did not drop ToastyToast a peg, instead I raised him one. Before I had him as suspicious on account of kr0b. If this is the best case you can come up with, I say it is rather sloppy.

As for the talk of this being MYLO, it would appear so with presumed three scum alive. But there is also a vigilante, who remains unclaimed, which would indicate that he probably has a shot left. That of course is no excuse to be careless with our votes.

As if it was not obvious already...

Were I not terrified of rogues capitalising on a misplaced ballot, I would be voting for: inHimshallibe

[jilynne1991]

Also, from Toasty... "FEYSAL IS VERY TROUBLING BUT I JUST WANT TO LYNCH INHIM."

You all HAVE to see this. Put yourself in my spot and read that post again. Do you not understand why I'm going bonkers over lynching Toasty?

Oh my, please stop twisting other peoples words or I will have to vote you.

ToastyToast is obviously saying, that Feysal is troubling, but you are far, far more troubling, in this case. He has determined you to be scum, while Feysal is simply troubling him?

...ToastyToast, if by some miracle there's not 3 scum, and by some unfortunate chance that inHim isn't scum, you'll be right at the tip of my list of scum. For now though, I may very well vote inHimshallibe.

[jilynne1991]

I'm moving so V/LA until Monday. Also, but I'll probably be in a horrible mood for the next week. God, I hate my parents.

[imaginality]

With two actual votes on inHimshallibe, and four pseduo-votes, inHimshallibe ought to claim now.

[AurorusVox]

There's something quite disturbing about Jily.
Her ultimatum to InHim, whom she reads as suspect anyway, is really shaking my own confidence in her.

The question is, is this scum trying to stay away from bussing a partner? ("Don't make me vote you!")
Or is it scum trying to stay off a mislynch? ("I don't want to vote you!")
Or is it just a recently-introduced gentlewoman's struggles with voting confidence? ("I don't know if I should vote you!")

I struggle reading such players when I engage in the card activity known as "Poker" since I always lose to their fresh-faced uncertainties.

As such, I would like to poll players opinions on Jily specifically, please.

---

Regarding InHim:

Everyone here other than inHim himself wants to lynch inHim.
Now we have to decide whether this is scum bussing a partner who is likely going down anyway (Toasty, Jily as partners would be my guess; Toasty taking the firm stance with the vote, and Jily being reluctant to push it fully) or scum making the most of an easy mislynch.

But the thing is. There are 8 alive. Presumably that's 5:3.

Let's say we mislynch today. 4:3.
Scum NK = 3:3 and we lose
But add a successful vig shot in, and we bring it back to 3:2

So I can't see scum pushing a mislynch as hard as Toasty's been pushing on inHim today, which draws the following conclusions: inHim is not a mislynch, or Toasty is not scum.

This means if InHim is town, Toasty is town. InHim scum does not imply Toasty scum. Nor does Toasty Town imply InHim town. But Toasty scum pretty much seals inhim as scum.

But then if both InHim and Toasty are town it has to be a Feysal-Jily-Hoppster scumteam, and I can't get these blinkers off that tell me Hoppster is town. But...oh FML. I was so sure and now I'm thinking tinfoil;

What if it's a Jily-Feysal-Imaginality scumteam? I can TOTALLY see Feysal concocting a gambit where he tells Jily to claim Imaginality is modconfirmed town. Who would doubt pure, innocent Jily?

If InHim flips town...I honestly would read Toasty as town, and my vote would immediately be on Jily to get shot.
And if only one of them is scum, it has to be InHim. If both are scum then it doesn't matter which one I vote.

The net result of this rambling post is that the likelihood of InHim being scum is the highest, but by no mean feat a certain thing.
Having no scumflips at this stage in the game makes the whole thing so much harder.

[inHimshallibe]

Very well then, I should be straightforward. I had hoped to convince you all and otherwise remain hidden, but the situation is such that my identity should be known.

I am a Gentleman of Constant Vigilance Brandishing Wit and Weapon in Protection of the Gentlemen's Gathering. I have attempted to kill Sir Coug and Sir Toast. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3052442 Needless to say, I knew for a fact he had taken my bullet directly. I also expressed my surprise that my actions would be described as "most foul."

I believe you can imagine why I shot from the gate attacking Sir Toast so fiercely, as I believe him to be the Kingpin of this group of Rogues and Rapscallions.