Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

[hiphop]

Why MS?

Because Ms thinks that me wanting the investigation immunity, is scum motivated. When it is far more likely that they would take the cop instead, since nobody could possibly outbid them. Essentially making investigation immunity null. All ms is doing is digging for something that is not there.

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, there's just no good way to communicate (short of Neighborizer, hint hint) our bids without the scum getting wise to it. There's also no good way to prevent the scum from taking whatever power they want unless we show that we're willing to compete some.

The only solid strategies we have in place at the moment are Seacore going for Setup Info and someone from the town should bid high on the NK, right?

[Seacore]

Those are my precise thoughts

[Regfan]

For the sake of summarization I'll attempt to restate all of my thoughts in this post. I want

everyones

thoughts on these.

A 10 day lynch target should be set to attain a reasonable efficency bonus. Transfers should be publically announced before completion however the amount transfered can stay secret. Investment should be last resort and a player should bid all their funds on night-kill before investing. Advertising should be avoided for the early day phases of the game. Growing your business is overrated and shouldn't really be aimed at doing for any role in particular the exception being a cop who believes they're likely to be alive near the end game. Players should attempt to avoid openely claiming which bids are theirs this early on in the day as it gives mafia information to help amend their plans and plan their night kills however since Seacore has already claimed no one else should place a bid on Setup Information without openely stating suspicion towards Seacore.

Players shouldn't attempt to spread their bidding too thin and should set themselves a maxinum of two items to bid for. Cop, doctor, neighbourzier, setup information and night-kill should be what we ultimately aim for as they all provide the greatest benefit whereas Governor, Investigation Immunity, Extra vote and Vote nullifer should be considered aiming for soley to prevent mafia attaining them. Last will and oracle should not be aimed for as neither provide any real benefit for us or the scum. Whoever recieves nightkill should publically claim it and then a decision of whether we're vig-votting or not shall be made. Governor, Investigation Immunity, Setup Information, Extra Vote and Vote Nullifer should also consider open claiming when recieving the item.

[Seacore]

/agree with #103

I claimed set up info because I thought it was a small enough power to be an interesting test run.

[IceGuy]

A 10 day lynch target should be set to attain a reasonable efficency bonus. Transfers should be publically announced before completion however the amount transfered can stay secret. Investment should be last resort and a player should bid all their funds on night-kill before investing. Advertising should be avoided for the early day phases of the game. Growing your business is overrated and shouldn't really be aimed at doing for any role in particular the exception being a cop who believes they're likely to be alive near the end game. Players should attempt to avoid openely claiming which bids are theirs this early on in the day as it gives mafia information to help amend their plans and plan their night kills however since Seacore has already claimed no one else should place a bid on Setup Information without openely stating suspicion towards Seacore.

Players shouldn't attempt to spread their bidding too thin and should set themselves a maxinum of two items to bid for. Cop, doctor, neighbourzier, setup information and night-kill should be what we ultimately aim for as they all provide the greatest benefit whereas Governor, Investigation Immunity, Extra vote and Vote nullifer should be considered aiming for soley to prevent mafia attaining them. Last will and oracle should not be aimed for as neither provide any real benefit for us or the scum. Whoever recieves nightkill should publically claim it and then a decision of whether we're vig-votting or not shall be made. Governor, Investigation Immunity, Setup Information, Extra Vote and Vote Nullifer should also consider open claiming when recieving the item.

Lynches should happen between day 10 and day 14. We should

not

lynch until we have both a reasonable lynch candidate and a strategy for the night. The efficiency bonus is not worth having no strategy for Night or a random lynch. Transfers should

not

be claimed unless specifically requested - it doesn't help us as much as scum to know who has more or less money. You should only bid (maximum amount) on NK if you have at least $100 and don't bid on anything else, otherwise invest everything you don't need. No advertising, at least for now. Cop, Extra Vote, Last Will, Neighborizer and Vote Nullifier should grow their business, as this abilities become more important every Day/Night. Players should claim what they're bidding on, and should not bid on more than one ability per day, except for Last Will, which should go to somebody with a high-risk town ability (cop or doc). Nobody should bid against a claimed town bid. No town member should bid on Governor to make sure a player saved from lynch is automatically outed as scum. If claimed town wins the NK auction, a vig vote shall be held.

[IceGuy]

Oops. I fail at c&p.

I'm going to try something risky.
I'm the guy who has bid $41 dollars on the Set Up info.

You should

not

claim how much you have bid! Now scum knows they can safely win this by bidding $42. (Although it probably doesn't matter for Setup Info.)

Claiming the amounts theat everyone has bidded on every item is sub-optimal and should be avoided until later in the game as it gives mafia a list of players to night kill however I have no problem with the list that Seacore suggested claiming when they recieve the item or even when they have the leading bid as it gives us a chance to prevent town bidding wars.

~~

Seacore, has the leading bid on Setup Info for $41 therefore no one else should bid on that unless they have serious doubts on Seacores allignment which should be brought up in thread.

Agree.

[Regfan]

I completely agree that a strategy needs to be put in place before a lynch occurs. Transfer of funds don't actually occur until the next day therefore there's minimal town motivation to transfer funds at this point in the game so any transfer of funds done by town need to be stated openely in the thread sooner rather than later. I don't understand how you can believe that players claiming on everything they bid on would be optimal, them doing so literally tells mafia who holds the cop and doctor power which they will proceed to kill straight away if they recieve night kill.

Cop, Extra Vote, Last Will, Neighborizer and Vote Nullifier should grow their business, as this abilities become more important every Day/Night.

Cop guarenteeing use of their ability night one is much more efficent to waiting until later in the game when they could potentially be dead. Furthermore their result should either give them a confirmed mafia which is highly valuable or someone they can be near certain is town thereby allowing them to transfer needed funds to that player. Neighbourizer has three uses and this game is likely not to go further than day four or five therefore there's no need for them to grow their business at all, neighbourizer will likely be our strongest weapon when it comes to properly organising our bids therefore it needs to be used as soon as possible. Vote Nullifer only has one use therefore cannot grow their buisness and last will and double voter I care not what people do with because they likely will have little impact on the game.

[IceGuy]

Transfer of funds don't actually occur until the next day therefore there's minimal town motivation to transfer funds at this point in the game so any transfer of funds done by town need to be stated openely in the thread sooner rather than later.

Bad idea. Then scum knows/can estimate how high the town bids are.

I don't understand how you can believe that players claiming on everything they bid on would be optimal, them doing so literally tells mafia who holds the cop and doctor power which they will proceed to kill straight away if they recieve night kill.

That's why the Doc should protect the Cop and the Cop should have Last Will.

[Regfan]

So the doctor can get shot night one and the cop night two?

[Seacore]

IceGuy, you get that my bid is published, right? Magua posts tables of them...

[IceGuy]

So the doctor can get shot night one and the cop night two?

Only if scum manages to win the NK both nights. And none of them has Last Will. And if they survive to D3, it doesn't matter anyway because they've used up their shots, if they don't Grow Their Business as you propose.

IceGuy, you get that my bid is published, right? Magua posts tables of them...

Maximum bids function like eBay -- the current bid will always be $1 more than the second highest bid, or, to put it another way, if you are winning the auction, you are always bidding the minimum amount required to do so. If another player bids higher than the current bid, but less than or equal to your maximum bid, you will remain the highest bidder and the current bid will be raised appropriately.

We don't know the highest bid, we know the second highest bid.

[Regfan]

Only if scum manages to win the NK both nights. And none of them has Last Will. And if they survive to D3, it doesn't matter anyway because they've used up their shots, if they don't Grow Their Business as you propose.

Scum pooling their funds can near guarentee that they get the night kill both nights. We shouldn't be lining up their targets for them but instead our aim should be to have them shooting into a pool of Cop/Doctor/Nopower/Nopower/Nopower and so forth. That's the reason that Neighbourizer, Investigation Immunity, Double Vote, Governor, Setup Information and Vote Nullifer claiming are optimal.

[Magua]

Breaking News

Ethos replaces Regfan.

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.3

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

malpascp (3): Ghostlin, ChaosOmega, Seacore
Midnight's Sorrow (2): RedCoyote, hiphop
Seacore (2): WeyounsLastClone, malpascp
hiphop (1): Midnight's Sorrow
WeyounsLastClone (1): bobsnox
ChaosOmega (1): PeregrineV

Not voting (3): Ethos, HellloooNewman, IceGuy

Deadline is July 12th, 2011, at 1:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-07-12 13:00:00)

Most Advertised Ability:

None

#	Name	Minimum Bid	Current Bid	Auction Length	Countdown
1	Cop x 2	$50	$50	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-05 13:00:00)
2	Doctor x 2	$40	$40	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
3	Extra Vote x 2	$10	$36	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
4	Governor x 1	$30	$30	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
5	Investigation Immunity x 4	$25	$25	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
6	Last Will x 3	$25	$25	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
7	Neighborizer x 3	$20	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
8	Night-kill x 1	$50	$50	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-05 13:00:00)
9	Oracle x 2	$10	$20	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
10	Setup Information x 3	$10	$41	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
11	Vote Nullifier x 1	$25	$25	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)

[bobsnox]

The Marketplace can be stolen from? But I don't see where we lost money...

I agree with 103.

[HellloooNewman]

You guys all seem to be forgetting one thing. We don't KNOW which abilities will be up for auction tomorrow. You're all discussing things as though every day will be like today.

Cop/Doc should not claim. That makes them targets. Cop SHOULD disclose their result straightaway D2.

[PeregrineV]

For the sake of summarization I'll attempt to restate all of my thoughts in this post. I want

everyones

thoughts on these.

A 10 day lynch target should be set to attain a reasonable efficency bonus. Transfers should be publically announced before completion however the amount transfered can stay secret. Investment should be last resort and a player should bid all their funds on night-kill before investing. Advertising should be avoided for the early day phases of the game. Growing your business is overrated and shouldn't really be aimed at doing for any role in particular the exception being a cop who believes they're likely to be alive near the end game. Players should attempt to avoid openely claiming which bids are theirs this early on in the day as it gives mafia information to help amend their plans and plan their night kills however since Seacore has already claimed no one else should place a bid on Setup Information without openely stating suspicion towards Seacore.

Players shouldn't attempt to spread their bidding too thin and should set themselves a maxinum of two items to bid for. Cop, doctor, neighbourzier, setup information and night-kill should be what we ultimately aim for as they all provide the greatest benefit whereas Governor, Investigation Immunity, Extra vote and Vote nullifer should be considered aiming for soley to prevent mafia attaining them. Last will and oracle should not be aimed for as neither provide any real benefit for us or the scum. Whoever recieves nightkill should publically claim it and then a decision of whether we're vig-votting or not shall be made. Governor, Investigation Immunity, Setup Information, Extra Vote and Vote Nullifer should also consider open claiming when recieving the item.

If we were smartest about it, one person would bid on the cop, and no one else would bid on anything else. Then, the cop can investigate each night, since there is no NK.
However, that is out the window now with all the bids up.

We can still do a modified version. Whoever gets NK holds it and doesn't use it, while the cop can investigate each night. There are still flaws with this as scum could get cop and fake results, but additional cops and cross examination may fix this.

Of course, scum will deny bidding, but if town gets the NK, then we NL and let the cop(s) investigate. Doc can grow business that night.

Advertising is crucial for town. Town needs to advertise "cop" ability so that it is available for auction tomorrow (and every day).

Any of the abilities which can't be independently verified are harder to put controls on. Someone could claim setup info, we can determine the questions, but if they are scum they can either ask different questions entirely and/or lie about the answers. Some stuff, like Extra Vote, will become apparent, and don't really determine alignment.

Also, even though I like the Marketplace mechanic, we also need to use normal scumhunting methods, like questions, votes, etc.
With that being said:

Unvote.
Vote:malpascp

I mentioned the SK because it was in another Mini I played in. However, it shouldn't really affect how we play this game, as they would be vying for the Nk against the mafia. However, you seem keenly interested in the subject- unnaturally so. Can you please explain why?

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Why MS?

Because Ms thinks that me wanting the investigation immunity, is scum motivated. When it is far more likely that they would take the cop instead, since nobody could possibly outbid them. Essentially making investigation immunity null. All ms is doing is digging for something that is not there.

Don't be so naive.

Your basically saying scum have absolutely no motivation to acquire Investigation Immunity- when they are the the only roles it that it would even remotely be useful to. Townies, and even the proverbial TP, would have no use for it, other then to keep it from the mafia- because Cop Results come back, "Mafia" or "Not Mafia".

Also, don't be so presumptuous.

Mafia will be far more concerned with getting the NK, then any other ability.

======================================================

Regfan

- I don't understand why you continue to feel like Advertising is not to the Town's best interest. Do you not understand that only the NK ability is guaranteed everyday? We have every reason to use it- especially with Doctor and Cop abilities, simply because the ones today won't last forever, and then where will we be?

That said I agree with most of what you said, with the exception of Advertising and stating of transfers.

[WeyounsLastClone]

You guys all seem to be forgetting one thing. We don't KNOW which abilities will be up for auction tomorrow. You're all discussing things as though every day will be like today.

Cop/Doc should not claim. That makes them targets. Cop SHOULD disclose their result straightaway D2.

First part is why I think Oracle might be of some use. If it shows cop/doc is up next day, we don't have to waste any advertising money (but then, advertising might be cheaper than oracle). Some people are bidding Oracle anyway, don't know exactly why it is one of the few abilities more than 1 people are already bidding for.

Agreed on cop claims, although unless you have a guilty I might be a bit more in favor of waiting with claiming til D3 so you could've used both your cop uses.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Also, maybe I missed it somewhere, but someone else besides Seacore is bidding for set-up info.

I'm the guy who has bid $41 dollars on the Set Up info.

I'm not sure how Seacore would know why exactly $41 dollars would bring him the winning bid, because if he was the only one bidding even at $41 dollars the bid would show $10. If he wasn't bidding yet, the bid would also show $10, and he'd never exactly guess the other was bidding $40. Maybe I'm misinterpreting Seacore, but I get fishy feelings from this.

[Seacore]

a) how would scum know what other people would bid any more than town?
b) bidding non 0/5 numbers is a great way to just get over people's heads.

Remember the price is right? "I think that the vacuum cleaner is worth $400" "I think it's worth $401", "Fuck you, buddy"

[Ethos]

Hey, Slaxx head of Ethos here. Waiting on Reg to discuss our game plan, but here to confirm our presence.

[Seacore]

I'll be V/LA this weekend.

[Ethos]

Reads List:

Town

(Strongest to Weakest): Red Coyote-> Seacore-> PeregrineV->Hiphop->Newman

Null

(Leaning Town to Leaning Scum): Chaos-> Iceguy->Bobsnox

Scum

(Weakest to Strongest): Weyoun->Midnight->Mal->Ghost


Will explain them in full tomorrow when we have more time to flesh it all out, but this will give you guys something to mull over until then.