A Gentleman's Game of Guile, Subterfuge, and Intrigue (Fin)

[Wraith]

I believe jilynne1991 has said to me that she will be

LA

for an indefinite amount of time. I think her parents cut off internet access or at least limited it.

[jilynne1991]

My dad let me use the computer again! Though it's still highly limited. Anyways..., another reason I listed 2 scum is that, I'm also used to asking other people for there top 2 choices. If you go through the games I'm currently in, you can see that. Oh, and I'm definitely getting my laptop back in 5 days.

[jilynne1991]

Um, I don't really keep track of my completed games, and I only have 2 completed at the moment, if I'm dead in a game, does that count? (Actually, I can safely say, that I could've been think of 2 scum, since I remember clearly at that time, I was struggling in a game as scum where there was 2 scum.) Anyways...am I allowed to link games I'm currently in?

[jilynne1991]

Sorry! I meant 3 completed games, I didn't realize I just lost one. Anyways, for that one
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=17224. There are at least 3 or 4 games, I'm either dead or alive in that have 2 mafia...(that hasn't ended yet.)

[vezokpiraka]

Yeah. Jyl is scum here.

Imaginality i trying to bail the wagon at least moment and adds some fearmongering in there.

V/la until the 9th

[AurorusVox]

Obv happy to lynch Jily today. I count three of us up for that (pseudo-wagon ho)

[imaginality]

vezok I'm 100% behind this jilynne lynch. I don't know where you got the impression I'm not?

[vezokpiraka]

vezok I'm 100% behind this jilynne lynch. I don't know where you got the impression I'm not?

Hmm sorry. I'm still waking up.

[imaginality]

Gentleman, in case I do not surviving the approaching night, here is a pamphlet with some thoughts for your perusal:

------

Here's what I noticed from isoing DemonHybrid/jilynne1991 and looking for interactions with other living players:

* DemonHybrid iso4 does the "He's scummy but I'm going to vote someone else instead" thing with vezokpiraka.
*Also in iso4 gives a strong townread on Hoppster.
* jilynne gives town reads on Feysal and Hoppster in iso1.
* jilynne gives ambivalent read on AV in iso3.
* jilynne's ambivalent on vezok in iso16 but pushes for a vezok lynch in 23. ambivalent again in 36.
* she seeks coaching from Feysal in 18. 31 and 38 also suggest she's paying particular attention to Feysal.
* 65 groups AV Feysal and Hoppster as leaning town and vezok as null.
* 78 tries to set Feysal up as scum only if TT flips scum.
* 80 says she suspects Feysal and Hoppster.
* admits to overlooking Hoppster in 91.

Sidenote: jilynne's question in iso4: "If you had to lynch 3 people, who would they be?" and her "If by some miracle we don't have three scum" in 69 pretty much prove her 2-man scumteam comment was indeed a slip rather than her usual assumption.

Here's what I noticed isoing other living players and looking for their interactions with DemonHybrid/jilynne1991:

Feysal makes no comment on DH/jilynne until prompted to by jilynne in iso13. Gives a townread there and again in 20/22. Then turns to suspecting her based on PoE in 26.

Hoppster interacts with DemonHybrid several times but doesn't give a read on him.
Calls out jilynne in 65 for not mentioning AV in her reads.
Gives a townread on jily in 80. Says she's a stronger townread than vezok in 84. Sticks to it in 88 though giving himself room to switch with the 'some recent posts seem similar to her scum-game' comment.

AurorusVox gives a neutral read on DemonHybrid in iso1, then nothing as far as I can see until iso23.
He asks good questions in 31, 32 and 35.
He gives a detailed neutral-slightly-scum read in 49 and points out she's not confirmed town in 52/53.
Keeping attention on her in 66/69.
Pushes a jilynne lynch over a Toasty one in 83 and also says she's sure-scum if Toasty flips town.

vezokpiraka makes no mention of DemonHybrid D1.
First interaction is iso33.
Points out jilynne isn't cleared in iso46.
tries to get jilynne to scumclaim in 60.
is in favour of either jily or feysal lynch today but doesn't think they're scum together (a change from yesterday).

My conclusions

Based on the above comments alone (i.e. leaving out whether the above players look scummy or not on their own merits), if jilynne1991 is scum, I'd regard AurorusVox as cleared town, and vezokpiraka as more clearly town too, considering how they've gone after jilynne. AurorusVox in particular has done this consistently and in my opinion genuinely.

Feysal and Hoppster both fit better as possible buddies, and both have turned to the possibility of a jilynne lynch only reluctantly. Hoppster gets a few extra suspicion points for strongly suggesting jilynne was confirmed town based on how she confirmed me.

Based on jilynne1991's interactions, I'd further clear vezokpiraka (don't think she'd push for a lynch on her only scumbuddy), and I'd most strongly suspect Feysal of being her partner. It reads quite a bit like she's paying greater attention to his comments in particular than to other players. Him being her scumbuddy fits well with that observation.

So in conclusion, if jilynne1991 is scum, interactions to/from her lead me to conclude her buddy is either Feysal or Hoppster, and I'd lean towards lynching Feysal first.

-----

Now I've submitted the above manuscript, there is nothing to delay me any further, and so, forthwith, I issue the following ballot:

Vote: jilynne1991

[AurorusVox]

I definitely agree that a Jily-Feysal scumteam makes the most sense.

I won't be voting until everyone has had a chance to speak since I don't want Jily quick-self-hammering to end discussion today.

Also feeling less paranoid about Imaginality today since he can ONLY be scum with Jily and I can't see a bus at this point.

[jilynne1991]

Ok, just to respond about my the 2/3 person mafia thing, I though there was a possibility there was an SK, because IRL I've played quite a few of those.

[AurorusVox]

Yeah Jily's confirmed scum.

We only found out there was an SK today. In prior game-days when you were talking about 2/3 person scumteams, you didn't know there was an SK. Therefore it can't be the reason for your number considerations.

[jilynne1991]

...I honestly have no clue how I'm supposed to defend myself...when there's no case behind me...besides something that I can explain, and you guys can either choose to beliueve me or not.

[AurorusVox]

How can the SK be your reason for thinking there were two scum on D2 + D3 when we've only found out that there's an SK today, on D4? That isn't an explanation. That's retroactively excusing yourself for a slip.

[jilynne1991]

No, I thought of the possibility of an SK, since there's that role quite often.

[AurorusVox]

Jily; if you felt that inHim was potentially an SK, why did you not mention this at all until now?

[jilynne1991]

That should be obvious. He was listening to town.

[AurorusVox]

These lies will get you nowhere.

"I thought he might be an SK."
"It should be obvious (why I didn't say it)."

i.e. he was "obvious[ly]" a vig, but "I thought he might be an SK" don't add up.

Where are Hoppster and Feysal? It does not become a gentleman to tarry.

[Hoppster]

Many apologies for my absence.

Had been V/LA, but this game was in night when my V/LA started and then I forgot to PM Wraith.


jilynne probably is today's lynch.

I still think that post I pointed out reeks of newb-town, and I really didn't think that newb-scum would think of doing such a thing.

I've also correctly nailed jily as scum in [REDACTED - ONGOING], and boy, she sure was stupidly obvious scum. I'm not getting the same stupidly obvious scum-vibe from this game (having said that, while it's true her very late posts yesterday were fairly scum-tastic, it's really not the same stupidly obvious scum-vibe I've had from her before).

Having said all this: looking at it logically, though, scum probably are Feysal and jily by PoE (with an outside chance of vezok being a flavour-godfather I suppose, but he's seemed pretty town). AVox looks really, really town off a ToastyToast town-flip.

Although I will probably be voting for jilynne today, I want to think about it a bit more, as I've made myself more doubtful of jilynne being scum again in typing up this post.

imaginality, AurorusVox, PhD, jilynne1991

One of this three is scum.

TheLonging, Sir Hoppster, imaginality

One of this three is scum

ToastyToast, vezokpiraka, jilynne1991

One is scum.

Reya wagon was a little weird and I don;t know what to make of it.
inHimshallibe,, imaginality, jilynne1991

At least one is scum. Could be a lot more.

imaginality, AurorusVox, PhD, jilynne1991

At least one is scum.


That narrows it down to jyl and imginality.
Or AV and jyl.

Anyway Jyl must day.

I'm not seeing feysal - jyl scum team though.

I'm not following your whole "one of these above three people are scum" thing.

I also thing that imaginality-jily is considerably less likely than Feysal-jily.

[jilynne1991]

Ok, I guess I'll give up on this, since I don't see how to persuade you guys I'm town.

Can we wait to see who gets killed at night? (That's the only thing that might make you guys notice the R-E-A-L scum.)

[Hoppster]

jily: thoughts on Feysal and vezokpiraka plzkthx.

[Feysal]

Where are Hoppster and Feysal? It does not become a gentleman to tarry.

Here now. I've had an exceptionally busy weekend, and I only had some time yesterday to read, but not reply. Time to correct that.

I definitely agree that a Jily-Feysal scumteam makes the most sense.

You would. Now that I've seen Jilynne's mafia play in her other games, I agree that she is our best bet for mafia today. However, therein lies a problem. Jilynne flipping mafia would not really clear or condemn anyone, leaving only vezokpiraka as flavor-confirmed. It would invalidate imaginality's friendly neighbour confirm, and I also disagree that it would clear you in any manner, shape or form.

Yes, you and I have a problem. There Goes the Neighborhood has ended, and after your foul treachery in that game, the faith I had in you in this game for the similarity of play is a thing of the past. That game, you started out by tunnelling on one of your partners, resulting in her eventual arrest. When your other partner was being wagoned, you derailed the mislynch wagon that would've saved her and caused her arrest too. And despite all this, you were mafia. I don't know how, or if, you're ever going to get a town read from me again after I've seen what villainy you're capable of toward your own allies.

And that brings us to this game. Yes, I do think Jilynne is probably mafia. I noted her slip of two mafia as well, and reading her other games I noticed how her behaviour, which I'd believed made her town, meant nothing. You however I could easily see as her partner. I don't recall you ever having given a clear stance on her, only yesterday you began to hint that she could be mafia but never really pushed. And lo and behold, when Toasty is revealed as town, what do people say?

...if jilynne1991 is scum, I'd regard AurorusVox as cleared town...

AVox looks really, really town off a ToastyToast town-flip.

I don't agree with either of the above. I think what I'm looking at is a perfect example of white knighting.

I'm perfectly fine with Jilynne being today's lynch, but come tomorrow, we should not ignore the possibility of AV being her partner in crime.

Submitting that we will wait and see does work. At this point, if there are three rapscallions, they can simply vote for a "laissez faire" approach every day anyway, thus our only hope is that it is indeed a two-man (or woman) team, and approach them with more favourable odds tomorrow (3:2 rather than 4:2).

What exactly are you trying to say here? Did you forget that if there were three mafia members, the game would be over?

[AurorusVox]

The curse of a successful run as a rapscallion once again rears its ugly head.

Sir Feysal; allow me to share with you my real meta, that I hid from you whilst we were battling against one another, and I were on the side of the knaves.
As scum, I regularly tunnel on my own buddies when I get the chance. But I never truly tunnel on town.
As town, it seems I

do

have a tendency to tunnel on town. I engage in TvT quite regularly. Here, I have not tunnelled on a buddy because I have none!

I have, however, brought attention to Jily when none was required. Ask yourself if, in TGtN, I brought undue pressure onto Krypt/Set, or whether I just intensified already-existing pressure? Bussing works, but its no good if its not needed. This is why Nacho thought I was scum; because I didn't

really

want to see either of them lynched.

Of course, I could be her partner. I cleared myself only from my point of view, since I know I am town. Of those left, it is your hanging that is the most likely to result in a dastard-flip. I am not calling myself confirmed town, far from it. I simply want to lynch rapscallions, of which I'm sure Jily is one, and, albeit less certain, I feel that you, sir, are the other.

RE: #995
It is my understanding, admittedly from another site, that if the rapscallions equal the gentlemen in number, the game does not yet end - they are forced to "no lynch" and shoot at night to achieve greater numbers. Is that incorrect?

[AurorusVox]

I've also correctly nailed jily as scum in [REDACTED - ONGOING], and boy, she sure was stupidly obvious scum. I'm not getting the same stupidly obvious scum-vibe from this game (having said that, while it's true her very late posts yesterday were fairly scum-tastic, it's really not the same stupidly obvious scum-vibe I've had from her before).

Now that I've seen Jilynne's mafia play in her other games, I agree that she is our best bet for mafia today.

So we have Hoppster saying her mafia play in other games is different to her play here, and Feysal saying the opposite.

Reconciliation of contrasting perspectives, plz.

[jilynne1991]

Ok, vezok is definitely town.

Feysal...ehhhh from process of elimination, I think he's scum.