[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[DarthYoshi]

Also, now that I think about it, that setup can be broken via the follow the cop technique as well.

A Mafia Roleblocker thrown into the setup could prevent that

So could making the cop macho, or turning the doc into a jailkeeper, both of which I personally think are preferable to inserting a maf roleblocker (but I am certainly in the minority on this issue here).

[DonJosh]

Sleepwalker Mafia

1 Godfather
2 Mafia Goons
1 Sleepwalker
1 Sane Cop
1 Sane Doc
7 Vanilla Townie

-The Sleepwalker is Town-aligned. They win when all threats have been eliminated.
-The Sleepwalker does not know that they are the Sleepwalker. They get a Vanilla Townie Role PM.
-If the Cop targets the Sleepwalker, the Cop is killed. They still get a "Town" read though.
-If the Doc targets the Sleepwalker, the Doc is killed. The Sleepwalker is not protected.
-If the Mafia targets the Sleepwalker, the Godfather is killed, but flips town. The Sleepwalker is safe.
-The Godfather is simply a Mafia Goon who sends the NK PM.

Another idea of mine... feedback please...

The Sleepwalker sounds basically like a Paranoid Gun Owner, which is a (usually town aligned) player who shoots anyone who targets them at night. PGOs are extremely swingy roles, and I don't think are a good fit for most setups.

However, correct me if Im wrong, but the PGO is aware of their role. A sleepwalker is a modified PGO. Kind of like Oblivious PGO or somethin

[DarthYoshi]

Sleepwalker Mafia

1 Godfather
2 Mafia Goons
1 Sleepwalker
1 Sane Cop
1 Sane Doc
7 Vanilla Townie

-The Sleepwalker is Town-aligned. They win when all threats have been eliminated.
-The Sleepwalker does not know that they are the Sleepwalker. They get a Vanilla Townie Role PM.
-If the Cop targets the Sleepwalker, the Cop is killed. They still get a "Town" read though.
-If the Doc targets the Sleepwalker, the Doc is killed. The Sleepwalker is not protected.
-If the Mafia targets the Sleepwalker, the Godfather is killed, but flips town. The Sleepwalker is safe.
-The Godfather is simply a Mafia Goon who sends the NK PM.

Another idea of mine... feedback please...

The Sleepwalker sounds basically like a Paranoid Gun Owner, which is a (usually town aligned) player who shoots anyone who targets them at night. PGOs are extremely swingy roles, and I don't think are a good fit for most setups.

However, correct me if Im wrong, but the PGO is aware of their role. A sleepwalker is a modified PGO. Kind of like Oblivious PGO or somethin

Right, I'm not saying it is exactly the same thing, but mostly the same thing, and quite honestly, that the Sleepwalker doesn't know they are the Sleepwalker only makes the role even swingier than the already-swingy PGO.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, if you have to keep escalating your game's powerroles to balance out the other side, something has gone wrong.

[Hoopla]

2x Mafia Goons
1x Reverse Doctor
7x Townies

~~

- Day start
- Reverse Doctor might be a role that already exists under a different/better name, but I can't remember it?
- Essentially, any player who targets it gains protection for that night, rather than the RD choosing who to protect.
- Each townie targets a player at night - if they hit the RD they're protected.
- Mafia and RD don't get a target choice.
- 10p, so one correct protection earns the town an extra mislynch. Rewards players who are good at PR-hunting, scum and town.

[Magua]

2x Mafia Goons
1x Reverse Doctor
7x Townies

~~

- Day start
- Reverse Doctor might be a role that already exists under a different/better name, but I can't remember it?
- Essentially, any player who targets it gains protection for that night, rather than the RD choosing who to protect.
- Each townie targets a player at night - if they hit the RD they're protected.
- Mafia and RD don't get a target choice.
- 10p, so one correct protection earns the town an extra mislynch. Rewards players who are good at PR-hunting, scum and town.

Very similar (but simpler) than Plum's Wishing Well Mafia.

Not sure if the setup was ever run.

[Hoopla]

I see. Healing Water Carrier doesn't seem like a catchy name, though neither is Reverse Doctor, really.

[DonJosh]

I see. Healing Water Carrier doesn't seem like a catchy name, though neither is Reverse Doctor, really.

Maybe a Lazy Doctor? Since people visit him rather than him visiting other people?

[farside22]

Rogue mafia:
The rogue will not win this game. Having a kill in which they can not use on the mafia hoses the player.
More then likely I see mafia winning.

Imagine
8 town
4 mafia

day 1 mis lynch
7-4
two kills at night to the town
5-4 (mylo)

2 Mafia GF
2 Millers
1 Cop
3 VT

This interesting in that only the millers would be considered confirm town. I would put that millers receive town PM's so that claiming day 1 and giving the town better chance to win.

Sleepwalkers - having only one player do the kill hurts the scum. What is the point of GF except he dies and flips town.
Also Sleepwalker sounds more like a PGO.



Hoopla: What happens if more then one player targets the reverse player?
IE: Is everyone that targets the player safe?

[DonJosh]

Rogue mafia:
The rogue will not win this game. Having a kill in which they can not use on the mafia hoses the player.
More then likely I see mafia winning.

Thats why I ditched the idea

[Hoopla]

Hoopla: What happens if more then one player targets the reverse player?
IE: Is everyone that targets the player safe?

Yep - multiple protections.

[Empking]

Surely the reverse Doctor is just another example of a reflexive role?

[Hoopla]

Surely the reverse Doctor is just another example of a reflexive role?

Maybe that's the terminology I was looking for.

[baboon]

Hide n' seek mafia

3 Mafia Goon
2-3 Hider
2-3 One-shot vigilante
4-6 Townie

[SpyreX]

2x Mafia Goons
1x Reverse Doctor
7x Townies

~~

- Day start
- Reverse Doctor might be a role that already exists under a different/better name, but I can't remember it?
- Essentially, any player who targets it gains protection for that night, rather than the RD choosing who to protect.
- Each townie targets a player at night - if they hit the RD they're protected.
- Mafia and RD don't get a target choice.
- 10p, so one correct protection earns the town an extra mislynch. Rewards players who are good at PR-hunting, scum and town.

I like this idea (Reflexive Doctor). 8:2 with one town PR that can't claim is pretty nice.

[Magister Ludi]

Don't the town essentially control the nightkill, though? One townie will claim doctor on day one. MAfia don't know if its real or not, but can't take the chance it isn't because if it is the real doc they can't kill anyone else. Next day, same thing. If the doctor doesn't die in the night, you know the person claiming was mafia, lynch away!

I guess the mafia could try and shoot elsewhere, but they would have to balance this out with the possibility the actual doctor did claim, and they would be wasting a night.

[SigmaEXE003]

Don't the town essentially control the nightkill, though? One townie will claim doctor on day one. MAfia don't know if its real or not, but can't take the chance it isn't because if it is the real doc they can't kill anyone else. Next day, same thing. If the doctor doesn't die in the night, you know the person claiming was mafia, lynch away!

I guess the mafia could try and shoot elsewhere, but they would have to balance this out with the possibility the actual doctor did claim, and they would be wasting a night.

Solution: Doc is modkilled if he claims.

[Vi]

Don't the town essentially control the nightkill, though? One townie will claim doctor on day one. MAfia don't know if its real or not, but can't take the chance it isn't because if it is the real doc they can't kill anyone else. Next day, same thing. If the doctor doesn't die in the night, you know the person claiming was mafia, lynch away!

I guess the mafia could try and shoot elsewhere, but they would have to balance this out with the possibility the actual doctor did claim, and they would be wasting a night.

Solution: Doc is modkilled if he claims.

This is never a solution.

[Empking]

Don't the town essentially control the nightkill, though? One townie will claim doctor on day one. MAfia don't know if its real or not, but can't take the chance it isn't because if it is the real doc they can't kill anyone else. Next day, same thing. If the doctor doesn't die in the night, you know the person claiming was mafia, lynch away!

I guess the mafia could try and shoot elsewhere, but they would have to balance this out with the possibility the actual doctor did claim, and they would be wasting a night.

I think its worth wasting the night.

(Yes I know that makes no sense considering the town can just make the probability the Doc claims high enough for it to be worth shooting the claimant. That doesn't change what I think.)

[SigmaEXE003]

Don't the town essentially control the nightkill, though? One townie will claim doctor on day one. MAfia don't know if its real or not, but can't take the chance it isn't because if it is the real doc they can't kill anyone else. Next day, same thing. If the doctor doesn't die in the night, you know the person claiming was mafia, lynch away!

I guess the mafia could try and shoot elsewhere, but they would have to balance this out with the possibility the actual doctor did claim, and they would be wasting a night.

Solution: Doc is modkilled if he claims.

This is never a solution.

Well, it was the first thing that came to mind.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, it doesn't work for multiple reasons, not least of which being if he is getting wagoned, he can't claim and thus dies, if it's the day before lylo, he can't claim for mass protect, he can't claim at lylo, and many more.

[SigmaEXE003]

Hm... I didn't really think of that. The point was to give the doc a reason not to claim and automatically protect everyone for a night. If he stays in hiding, he couldn't really protect anyone besides townies who happened to guess right. I guess the decision on whether to claim or not should be up to the doc then. Either draw the kill for the night or hope townies guess right for the whole game.

Maybe he wouldn't know he's the doc? That would be interesting.

[DarthYoshi]

Don't the town essentially control the nightkill, though? One townie will claim doctor on day one. MAfia don't know if its real or not, but can't take the chance it isn't because if it is the real doc they can't kill anyone else. Next day, same thing. If the doctor doesn't die in the night, you know the person claiming was mafia, lynch away!

I guess the mafia could try and shoot elsewhere, but they would have to balance this out with the possibility the actual doctor did claim, and they would be wasting a night.

Solution: Doc is modkilled if he claims.

This is never a solution.

Well, it was the first thing that came to mind.

In the world of mafia, first ideas are sometimes not the best ones.

This is one such case. Vi is right.

[Hoopla]

Don't the town essentially control the nightkill, though? One townie will claim doctor on day one. MAfia don't know if its real or not, but can't take the chance it isn't because if it is the real doc they can't kill anyone else. Next day, same thing. If the doctor doesn't die in the night, you know the person claiming was mafia, lynch away!

I don't think that's a viable plan - optimal scum play is to not kill the claimer. If it's a townie, then they've just got an awesome deal out of it, because the kill is guaranteed to go through, and it makes the town think the person claiming is mafia, for a nice mislynch opportunity D2.

Worst-case scenario is that they were wrong, and the claimant is the Doctor and they give the town an extra mislynch, but get the Doctor dead N2. But this wouldn't happen often, or would need to happen less often to not make scum's optimal play killing the claimant.

[SpyreX]

If you were really, really worried about that (and I'm not sure I would be) there is much more interesting ways of dealing with it than a modkill.