Into Africa - Over

[DeityKabuto]

elvis, why did Snarky place a vote on you?

[Altilysian]

OBVtown
elvis_knits
tajo
FA
vezok - I think his early claim was real

Town
Llamarble - Has stepped up tremendously
Seacore - Handled himself well under pressure. His reads post was good. I'm buying his explanations, for now.
Snarky - His expectation for information from the GreyICE lynch reads as townie getting too excited GI would flip scum. That second rolefishing accusation has merit, but I'm not buying it. Everything else coming from him as sounded town to me.

Slight town
earworm
DietyKabuto
evilpacman
Calcifer inHillshallibe - VERY slight town. Clipping the scum side. Looking at inHim's iso, even though he didn't say that much, some of the stuff there does make me feel he is town. Calcifer has done no favors for this slot though.

SCUM
Cirno - Chose CKD over Hez. I did think he was slight town because I remember his early game defense of FA (which I think was town-motivated). However, the GI hammer shakes things up a bit.

>@everyone...I want your stance on grey...why is he a bad wagon?
Does 'everyone' apply to me, too? Lynching Grey would be interesting. But I don't hang out with no filthy hyenas, so I'm staying here.

Cirno, did Grey's lynch give you any interesting info?

Lowell - I could find something positive (townie) to say about everyone in this game except for this slot.
Amrun - Her early game confidence in the FA and Snarky lynches strikes me the wrong way. I did think she was doing good scumhunting up to the most recent policy lynch episode, but that early suspicion never went away.

Highly variable
CKD - If not for the Hyena flavor speculation, he would be OBVtown for the hardest push on the only scum catch so far (and the interactions between Hez and CKD did not seem like a bus). His case on GreyICE was good. Hyena could be a loner SK, but I could also see it as a badass town-aligned role. I don't want to risk lynching a pro-town player at this point.

GreyICE wagon was good and had good reasonings attached, so I don't think a lot of scum was on it.

Vote: Amrun

[elvis_knits]

elvis, why did Snarky place a vote on you?

I think he said I lynched too many townies.

I'm willing to take my fair share of blame for voting townies, because I have. I think every townie who got lynched did things that were very scummy though and it was my best guess at the time. I think if you look at my posts you can see my reasoning and you should be able to see that I am town motivated. I think that the reasoning should be more telling than just the fact that I've lynched townies.

[DeityKabuto]

elvis, why did Snarky place a vote on you?

I think he said I lynched too many townies.

I'm willing to take my fair share of blame for voting townies, because I have. I think every townie who got lynched did things that were very scummy though and it was my best guess at the time. I think if you look at my posts you can see my reasoning and you should be able to see that I am town motivated. I think that the reasoning should be more telling than just the fact that I've lynched townies.

Hmm... you are good at being convincing, though.

How many times have you been in a situation where you persuaded people not to think you scum?

[elvis_knits]

I took a break for a while and haven't been scum since coming back. This is my second game back. My old games I was almost never convincing as scum, and got lynched early and often. At least that's how I felt.

[Cirno]

>EK
>doesn't quote the part where I say "I think I like the Grey wagon a bit more because the reasoning for some of his votes seem more like excuses rather than reasons."

>implying that you must agree with every case by every person on a wagon or else you think the wagonee is town.

No, disagreeing with CKD's shitty case or feeling sorry for GI when someone asks him a loaded question like "why are all your scum suspects very likely town?" does not mean I think he is town.

Now, I'm not claiming that I wanted to lynch GI the whole time. But your implication that I voted GreyIce despite believing he was town is false.

As for the actual reason for the hammer: GI's lynch was good enough, he was at L-1, and I wanted to end the day.

Also, I still want to know about those suspicious actions with hez earworm was supposedly engaged in.

[elvis_knits]

Hmm. I missed that you said that about Grey, it was buried here:

>You are arguing this may be herbivores v carnivores. Is this always the case when it comes to Predator v Prey?
Not sure what you are asking, but as town flips have been antelopes, zebras, and gazelles, I am assuming that anything that preys on those creatures (such as hyenas and lions) are scum.

>Also you thinking someone trying to argue hyena = town is scummy, is your opinion and I don't think that's a good reason to base on alignment
From my understanding,you are saying that arguing that hyena may be town-aligned isn't scummy? Fact is, there is nothing to base such an argument on. In fact, the town flips so far would imply the opposite.

>Does the rest of his play line up with this?
I don't care about his play.

>Also did you support the Hez wagon?
No, I did not. The votes on the wagon all seemed weak to me and I didn't care too much about Hez myself, so I stayed away. For the record, I don't think Hez's flip clears ckd in any way.


As for the current wagons (seacore and grey), I can't seem to form a strong opinion on either.

I think I like the Grey wagon a bit more because the reasoning for some of his votes seem more like excuses rather than reasons.

And because he is voting me. Thought I'd say that before someone else does.

I found that you also said:

>Blah blah town logic at all you'll vote for either wagon right now.
I don't mean to say I will support either wagon, rather that I won't argue against either one and that I favor one over the other.

I don't plan on changing my vote to either wagon (or at all, really).

Now, I'm not claiming that I wanted to lynch GI the whole time. But your implication that I voted GreyIce despite believing he was town is false.

I never said that you believed GI was town. I have no idea. But I didn't see you saying you thought he was scum either. This implies to me that you either:
a)thought he was town
b)thought he was somewhere in the middle of scum and town
c)weren't sure what you thought of his alignment
d)didn't care

So really it could be any of these reasons, but none of those make hammering him something I would expect you to do.

[elvis_knits]

Also, I still want to know about those suspicious actions with hez earworm was supposedly engaged in.

He wanted us to kill CKD instead of Hez. He believed HEz's claim.

1. Do you think CKD is lying about vigging lurkers?
2. What did you think of CKD's reaction?
3. Do you really believe Hezlucky is the cop? If so, why?

1. I'm not sure on this one. Leaning towards no. It fits the kill flavor and the hyena animal. But I don't think that makes him town. In fact, the day vig claim along with the name claim fits very nicely with a SK in my mind.

2. Normal reaction. Null.

3. Yeah, I do. I'm not seeing anything that would lead me to disbelieve his claim. Has he played poorly thus far? yeah. I'm just not seeing this a fakeclaim right now.

[curiouskarmadog]

intersting night...LOL....you can start singing my praises now.

..........so I get another ability if I dont vig during the day. I get to stake out the old "watering hole" (at night) to see who lingers. Well guess who I watched last night, Zel (because he seemed to agree with my line of thinking and put out there that I am town)...I saw two people visit him last night...so one of you are a killer...and one of you I guess is a PR..sorry to out (but want to get scum) we need to do this. and I dont want to die with the info.

@in your next post, claim if you targetted Zel last night, if so, why?

I imagine scum is going to stall or deny...going to be an easy catch today...if they stall too much I will nail them (with the vig)...your move scum bag.

[Cirno]

>EK
>I never said that you believed GI was town.
You implied it.
"Disagreeing with the case against GI, is almost as good as saying you don't think GI is scum"
"Cirno didn't seem to think GI was scum, even said he felt bad for GI"


>I found that you also said "I don't plan on changing my vote to either wagon"

Right but I had stopped caring about keeping my vote on ckd at the point that I voted DK.

>ckd
>sorry to out (but want to get scum) we need to do this. and I dont want to die with the info

If you are going to out them anyway, why not just write out the names? Also, can you kill people who come to the watering hole at night?

[elvis_knits]

I imagine he's trying to catch somebody lying, Cirno.

I can't help but notice you didn't answer his question of whether you targeted Zel last night.

Also, I didn't target Zel last night.

[Cirno]

I'm gonna stall and see if he vigs me.

[Cirno]

>I imagine he's trying to catch somebody lying, Cirno.

I don't see the point in having everybody claim whether they targeted zelink and then go "you're lying!", when he can just say who it was.

[elvis_knits]

If scum lie and say they didnt target Zel last night, CKD would be able to catch them in the lie without outing the other person. Maybe we need to do a popcorn style type claim?

I PICK CIRNO

Stop stalling.

[Llamarble]

Yay CKD has ascended to true obvtownness.
And no I did not target Z.
I'm planning to put a 3 hour block into this game sometime soon, but I'd like to hear who targeted Zel first 'cause that will seriously inform my search.

[Llamarble]

Also the reason is that two people targeted Z.
The scum person might say they didn't hoping it's a gambit and thus out themselves 100% instead of 50/50.
I personally absolutely believe CKD considering Zelink was pretty much the obvious choice for an NK last night.

[Cirno]

>ckd
>a hyena...
>...that is aligned with antelopes, gazelles, and zebras...
>...and can only vig people who are eligible to be replaced...
>...and now has the previously unmentioned ability of a watcher as well
>obvtown

Nope.

Also, stalling like a us congressman at a budget meeting. Come at me, bro.

[Llamarble]

I wonder if we can use CKD's ability as an extra lynch by commanding whoever we want to run up not to post for 3 days.
I mean scum might just post anyway, but this would mean each time we mislynch we get an extra lynch that day.
Also it's not impossible we'd end up getting 2 scumlynches in a day if a scum wanted to wifom us by allowing themself to get into vig range.

And Cirno, YES OR NO DID YOU TARGET ZELINK THERE IS NO TOWNREASON NOT TO COMPLY.

[Cirno]

Somehow I don't think anyone, town or scum, is going to allow himself to be daykilled, even if he is told to.

>And Cirno, YES OR NO DID YOU TARGET ZELINK THERE IS NO TOWNREASON NOT TO COMPLY.

Concentrate and ask again

[Llamarble]

I mean if I'm put at L-1 and CKD says I WOULD HAMMER YOU NOW BUT IF I VIG YOU INSTEAD TOWN GETS ANOTHER LYNCH then I would do the pro-town thing and shut up.
VOTE: CIRNO

[populartajo]

Yay CKD has ascended to true obvtownness.

yeah no.

while its like 99.9%%% CKD isnt scum with Hez, CKD can still be third party or part of another scumgroup. (specilaly with the hidden watcher power than dont make sense in a vig).

Ill go ahead and claim that I targetted zelink. I wont claim further unless majority wants me to since Im pretty sure I can own the other claimer and be protected at night.

[populartajo]

Vote: Cirno.

[populartajo]

I wonder if we can use CKD's ability as an extra lynch by commanding whoever we want to run up not to post for 3 days.

this wont work

[Cirno]

ckd also wants to know

why

you targeted zelink

[Llamarble]

I don't think that information is necessary until the other targeter claims.