Mini 1180: Game Over

[Ironhead]

How is your discovery unique from TwistedSpoon's?

Before I can answer this, where IS this discovery?

As Alduskkel pointed out; TwistedSpoon made this observation:

immediately obvious is this

Town-
DarthYoshi
Jilynne1991
Alduskkel
Secretproject

Alduskkel as a town read, what's wrong with that? Well this reference is the only time in the krew ISo that he ever mentions Alduskkel. At all...

and then you made a similar observation, as noted by Alduskkel:

So probably scum in
{DarthYoshi; jilynne1991; Alduskkel}
Hm...changes a bit. With the jilynne-townslip, that means one of DarthYoshi and Alduskkel is probably scum, most likely Alduskkel; have you noticed the way that WK called him town and then [literally, I looked through ISO] never brought him up again?

What the hell is this? "Let's steal something from TS [which was flawed in the first place], imply that I came up with it*, and vote Ald over it."? This is really awful and is simply bandwagoning.

*The "have you noticed" part implies that no one has noticed it but wierdalex.

And your reply confirms that you consider yourself the first to make what appears to be the exact same discovery. Your thoughts?

[Soben]

However, if Ald is indeed town, and he genuinely thinks Alex or CC need to be lynched TODAY, claiming could potentially help that cause. That he has not done so makes me think he is not that sincere in his attempts to lynch them.

I share these thoughts, claiming earlier is much more optimal than later as it allows time to look elsewhere whereas a last minute claim could potentially lead to a blitz vote occuring due to deadline issues and is something that needs to be avoided.

Alduskkel, I don't care if you prefer to refrain from claiming until intent to hammer is put forward, you need to claim in your next post. Refusal to do so will be treated as a scum-claim.

Also. I'll continue Protecting Jily, CC, Alex, Elsa, AND TWIE from lynches, since they're ALL town.

Jillyn, Alex and to a degree Elsa I can understand and agree with. CC, I agree with however Scumhunter suspects him quite strongly so I'll put him aside for now. TWIE, no, you seriously need to attempt to explain this town-read to me because I continue to fail to see it.

Soben's 1204. Particularly, the second paragraph. Related to Ald being scum, Soben points out a great deal which is condemning towards Ald...and yet, doesn't show support for a lynch on Ald. (Calling it a quicklynch when we're 3 days from the original deadline? HOW ON EARTH DOES THAT FIT ANY DEFINITION OF QUICK?!?)

It's a quicklynch because we still have no content from TWIEs slot throughout the entire of today and he's still my leading suspect by far. I wouldn't state that I directly oppose an Ald lynch as PoE leads towards him being likely scum however his recent posts make me slightly uneasy about his lynch and I look forward to you going into your case on him in more detail.

But I'm sure of it, now.

The Scumteam for Mini 1180 is WormyKrew, Alduskkel, and Soben

.

You continue to somehow manage to win my hatred, I'll give you a chance at redemption. Lets say the mod walked into the room right now and stated that Ald and myself were confirmed town, what would your reads then be, this is a serious question.

[DarthYoshi]

I'll get around to why Ald's scum. Not just that post. A legitimate, full-blown case. Theoretical deadline is in three days, but we actually have until *Replacement's Time Coming in +2-3 days* to get a lynch, so I should have the time, if I don't slack off.
AWAY!

Quickly saying from my phone that this is an incredibly anti town mindset. NEVER assume the deadline is anything other than what the mod says. Get cracking, mastin.

[mastin2]

Will do. But this needs addressing:

Lets say the mod walked into the room right now and stated that Ald and myself were confirmed town, what would your reads then be, this is a serious question.

DarthYoshi instead of Ald. Debating in my head between {Iron, Alex, TwistedSpoon} as to who it'd be instead of you.

But this is all moot, since I'm not wrong.

Not on this.

Yoshi's now confirmed town, as far as I'm concerned. So too is Iron. And Twistedspoon. And all the names I mentioned before.

I'm not wrong. I'm paying more attention to this game right now than is really healthy, because I know I need to step up and prove it.

I'm right; I've done my job that way.
I've stopped the Moronic Mislynches,
And have given you all the scumteam for this game.

Now to work on the part about being convincing.
Because, I swear.

If the town doesn't listen to me, they'll later wish they had.

(Signature references for the win! )

[Twistedspoon]

you throw the word confirmed around a lot, Mastin

and what happened to you saying scum was either Yoshi or Ald? What has vanquished your yoshi suspicions?

[mastin2]

There's only two scum in the game, Twisted. Well, two alive, anyway. Everyone else is town. And since I've nailed both of them, to me that means that everyone except those two are as far as I'm concerned quite frankly Confirmed Town.

That's why my Yoshi suspicion vanished--because for the first time since Day Two began, I have regained my confidence in my reads. I've gained Surgical Precision. It's that clear-

Cut

.

[Twistedspoon]

And since I've nailed both of them,

Ald and....
Soben?

[mastin2]

The Scumteam for Mini 1180 is WormyKrew, Alduskkel, and

Soben

.

[Twistedspoon]

you evidence for sobenscum was that project died instead of him N1 right?

[Twistedspoon]

His:
TOWN

Soben

Captain Corporal
Ironhead

Alduskkel

NULL
jilynne1991
TheWayItEnds
DarthYoshi
mastin2

SCUM
wierdalexv
Elsa von Spielburg
Brokenscraps
WormyKrew

Mine:
TOWNIEST
jil

Soben

Alduskkel

Ironhead
TWIE
(null)
Yoshi
Captain Corporal
Elsa
(null)
mastin
krew
brokenscraps
alex
SCUMMIEST

looking at secretproject's reads I see no reason why the scumteam you propose would kill him over, say you or Jily

[mastin2]

How.
Many.
Times.
Must.
I.
Say.
That.
It.
Isn't.
Just.
Because.
Soben.
Didn't.
Get.
Targeted?!?

That's what STARTED the suspicion. That is not the WHOLE suspicion.

[Twistedspoon]

well what is the whole suspicion

and I don't see how it started it either

[Substrike22]

Blanket Call: If anyone knows anyone who would take TWIE's spot, let me know, I've asked people and gotten turned down at this point. Still haven't heard anything from my "poster" on the queue.

[Soben]

There's only two scum in the game, Twisted. Well, two alive, anyway. Everyone else is town. And since I've nailed both of them, to me that means that everyone except those two are as far as I'm concerned quite frankly Confirmed Town.

Confidence does not breed truth, you numbskull. Lay off the kool-aid sir.

[Soben]

I think Krew is on L-2.

Considering putting on L-1 for some pressure. Would that be a good idea or a bad idea? (This is all assuming he's on L-2)

If someone puts Krew at L-1 and Secret Project doesn't wait for a claim, I will be mad. Don't do it, SP.

Captain, I explained to Regfan that the main reason I suspect you was mostly from a PoE of our town reads and from a review of your play you didn't really give me any reason to think you are town. You hadn't really contributed much of note yesterday and

what really makes me feeling strange is that you specifically mentioned next to nothing about the WK wagon for the entirety of d1

. What makes it particularly interesting is that you had no problem commenting on both the TWIE and Elsa wagons but strangely ignored the WK wagon for the most of the day. And what struck me as odd is that you clearly knew the wagon was going on. As quoted above you said you were thinking of putting Krew at L-1 for some pressure. Well a) that defeats the purpose of "pressure" votes and b) it appears it could very well be scum-motivated trying to show a willingness to lynch a scum partner for later in the game. If you really wanted to "pressure" him you would be asking WK questions and at least commenting on the wagon and suspicions on him that took up a lot of our time and ultimately led to his lynch day 1. It strikes me as strange that these two quotes were the most you ever said about WK yesterday really.


@Mastin, I understand the idea of being paranoid of players who appear obv-town to lots of players. I don't mind the skepticism really. All I ask is that today and going forward you consider your suspicions and temper them with a bit of logic. Think about why you really suspect us...is it because you think we are scum or you are scared of the potential influence we have if we are scum? Which is the greater reason you are expressing doubt? If it is truly, and I mean truly, because you think we are scum, go ahead and present a solid case. I'm willing to listen and to explain our actions to you. I'm not saying you must have us in obv town status because I do think a bit of paranoia and questioning never hurt anyone, self-included. However, your comments like "WK, Ald, Soben are the 3 confirmed scum" makes it impossible for Regfan to listen to anything you say and it will annoy me at some point too if it continues. If you have a real case on us to present, please, be my guest.

I would be very very surprised personally if the scum weren't in [CC, TWIE, Ald, Elsa]
Not really sure I like this Ald wagon tbh. We'd be willing to hammer pending a claim, but meh, personally I'd like to go for CC today. Reg thinks an Ald lynch is a good lynch but he'd probably be 3rd on my list to lynch today. Seeing as our vote is doing nothing right now and I regretted not stating and standing by my opinion more yesterday I'm going to go ahead and

unvote, vote: CC

. If Reg has a problem with it I'm sure he will qq about it to me in the QT the way he has been about mastin. XD

[Soben]

Oh and Ald, I doubt the wagon will shift off you without a claim anyways, so you might as well claim tbh.

[wierdalexv]

No offense, Mastin, but now you're just plain being idiotic.

Just because you think the scum are most likely to be Ald and Soben doesn't mean you're 100% right.

Mafia is not an exact game. You will be wrong most of the time.
Go ahead and say "LOL, I'm not stupid", but the way you completely stopped scumhunting just because you called the scumteam makes me think you've forgotten this.

Also the confirmed town thing. You use the words "Confirmed town" like it was "Leaning Town" or something.
Also: I don't find this scummy, I find it more of a logical fallacy of sorts.
-------
OK, let me be honest here.
When I read a wall, I do read the whole thing, but I lose interest and don't really think about what I'm reading, especially when it's not very interesting or very, very long; I.E. a catchup post with information that has partly/mostly been already said. In this case, TS said something new that I didn't really think about and then, later, I scumhunt in the same way coming up with the same answer. And it looks extremely scummy, with nothing I can do about it. And I'm really rambling on here, aren't I?

[mastin2]

DANG IT. STOP. STRAWMANNING. ME.

First off, happy scumday, mod.

Second off, This extremely offensive Tone is pure scum.

Third off,

@Mastin, I understand the idea of being paranoid of players who appear obv-town to lots of players.

THIS IS NOT THE SUSPICION. It's not that you're "too town to be town". It's not "Why wasn't Soben targeted last night?" (That one's what started the suspicion, NOT THE MAIN DRIVING FORCE OF IT.)

It's that I see from you, legitimately scummy moves, dropping scumtells right and left, posting exactly as I'd expect scum to do, interacting with my scum suspect(s--this applies to yesterday as well) in a condemning way...

You're scum because you've done scummy things, because of Process of Elimination, because of condemning interactions, because of scum Motive, because of scum Tone, because of...

...Everything.

I haven't written the case, but that'll come game-tomorrow. Game-today, I have an Ald case to worry about. But just because I can't briefly explain effectively to the town the reasons why you're scum, doesn't mean that they're limited to the weak ones you've been saying and I've (MULTIPLE TIMES!) said to not be the basis for the case.

is it because you think we are scum or you are scared of the potential influence we have if we are scum?

After the suspicion I've given towards you, Soben, I quite frankly don't think you'd be able to win this game as scum even if I died. I fear not your influence, since (quite frankly) the longer you live, the less it'll be.

No, I think you're scum.

It's frustrating to see the town not understand why you are, but it'll come. It's only a matter of time before their obv-town read on you vanishes, as did mine at the start of day two. I would of course prefer to speed things along and make it happen tomorrow, rather than, say, 3P lylo.

The case will come, after I finish the one on Ald.
The scum won't win this game, Soben. It's my job to stop you from killing the town.

[wierdalexv]

Second off, This extremely offensive Tone is pure scum.

Why?

I see you still refuse to even consider that you are wrong.

[mastin2]

Let me also briefly run down why it's not just that I think Ald/Soben are the living scum.

Spoiler: Easier To Explain

1. wierdalexv <--The multiple town-Motivated posts Alex has been making, the lack of condemning interactions with scum, general Town Tone, town-slips, etc.
5. jilynne1991 <--Meta, claim, favorable interactions with scum, definite town tone, shows a consistent town Motive (albeit somewhat lazy), etc.
7. DarthYoshi <--Mutually exclusive with Ald, favorable interactions with scum, slightly-meta, town Motivation showing through, and I'm beginning to see town Tone as well from Yoshi. Among the long list.
10. Ironhead <--Lack of condemning interactions with scum, extremely FAVORABLE interactions with scum, general town meta, town Motive painfully obvious, bleeding off a Town Tone, etc.

Spoiler: These Are A Bit Harder...

3. Elsa von Spielburg <--Looking at her ISO, Elsa pushed WormyKrew as scum quite a bit. Favorable interactions. Her general attitude has seemed like town, her moves seem to come from town. She gives off a Town Tone in her posts, and she has consistently shown herself to have a town mindset. Interactions with Ald look overall pretty good, too. There's literally nothing scummy in her. She's town. There's also the whole "WormyKrew wanting Elsa vigged" thing.
4. Gerhard Krause Captain Corporal
6. TheWayItEnds
8. monk Brokenscraps Twistedspoon

/Taking a break to eat.
I'll post this now and make another post with a rundown of why the other three are town, too.

[Ironhead]

Soben is town. It isn't worth your time to try to convince us otherwise. If we get to 3P LYLO and both of you are still hanging around, you might be able to convince the 3rd player, but: he is high-probability to be NK'd and you are high probability to be lynched before then.

[mastin2]

Heh. I'd love to see the scum try and NK Soben.
Would absolutely love it.

But it can't happen, can it?

I'd also love to see them keep me alive, too. Because the longer I'm kept alive, the more dangerous I am. The more likely I am to screw them over. (My play is kinda quadratic--it starts out average-to-good, and takes a slow dive in the middle of the game...but after hitting the bottom, it begins to go back up, and continues to increase every day at a rate the scum can't keep up with. Most players' growth in a game-->Linear. Mine-->Quadratic. )

/Still working, for the record. Bit preoccupied, admittedly, but nothing I can't handle.

[Soben]

There's only two scum in the game, Twisted. Well, two alive, anyway. Everyone else is town. And since I've nailed both of them, to me that means that everyone except those two are as far as I'm concerned quite frankly Confirmed Town.

Confidence does not breed truth, you numbskull. Lay off the kool-aid sir.

Hai mastin, SH here. Don't get your panties in a bunch loL.

Oh hai, have you noticed we have mostly the same reads? Oh my goodness, how could that be, coming from a scumball like me?! (/sarcasm)
In fact I'd say R and I both very much agree with your town reads at the moment. Let's be friends *buddy* *buddy*. If for no other reason it will make R rage in the QT <3.

[jilynne1991]

You guys...I am sooo sorry, but I really need to start cutting the crap out of my life, because I'm going to a math camp soon and then I'm trying to get into a boarding school, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to leave mafiascum, sorry.

[mastin2]

Predictable.

Disappointing, but not really that surprising.

"...You...saw her replacing out?"

Yeah, 'course I did, eventually. I knew it'd happen sooner or later because I know that type of person. Since I WAS that type of person... It's something which sucks, and I wish Jily could come back (not only because I actually see talent in her, but also because we're having trouble finding so much as ONE replacement... ), but hey. Life happens.

If we're lucky, Jily will come back in a year or two, older and wiser, remember how much of a VI she was percieved to be, both laugh and cry about it, and then become the awesome scumhunter she should be.

(Lots of players who are good were once VIs. I might be the most [in]famous example, but far from the only one.)


Scumhunter, don't get me wrong. I think you're a great player. You're playing amazingly regardless of your alignment.

I just quite frankly can't see you as anything but scum right now. You've seemingly purposefully tried to induce a little bit of hydra-schizo, while simultaneously pulling a move which is exactly the same Tone as your hydra buddy. You can't have the best of both worlds, my friend.

Will finish the summary (I've got three more names to prove as town--and these three are more vital than any of the others), and then work on the Ald case.