Mini 1180: Game Over

[Ironhead]

@Ironhead, why haven't you joined the Ald or CC wagons? If you aren't willing to vote for either--if you had to pick one, which and why?

CC. I haven't joined either wagon because I want to hear from TWIE's replacement and may yet vote him; but if TWIE's replacement seems town, I might vote CC because he is presently seeming somewhat scummy to me. I would only vote Ald to avoid a no-lynch.

[mastin2]

Ironhead: Tell me why you think my assumptions are wrong. Many of them are backed by common sense and overall good reasoning. For instance, I'm pretty much a master of VCA, so if you have issues with how I do it, I'm willing to explain exactly why I made those (perfectly valid, as they're true and make sense when you see the logic behind them) assumptions. As Alex pointed out, my reasoning for the "one scum in town, one scum in the scum" section which you have issue with, is actually one of the things I backed up the most. Yet you disagree with it, and I don't see a reason why.

I'm horrible with explaining my reasons, but you don't strike me as that type, so if you have an issue, then you of all people should be able to elaborate.

Soben's post I'm quite frankly ignoring. Skimmed it, saw nothing which I felt I needed to address, seeing as Soben's a scum-read of mine and it'd be a waste of time trying to convince my scum-read that they're scum.

can we just lynch ald?

He's the common denominator here

^Pretty much that. There's only a couple players who have voiced objection. One of them is Ironhead. Ald is obviously the other. Soben (scumbuddy for a reason!) has shown exactly why Ald could be scum. (In other words, IF Soben were town, they'd be willing to lynch Ald as well.) Twisted obviously is willing to lynch Ald. Alex looks like he is. I most certainly am willing. I get the distinct impression that Yoshi would as well (despite preferring the CC lynch, apparently). Captain would, too, for obvious reasons. That's at least six.

Ald has enough support for a lynch. It should happen.

And, let me put it to you this way:

I would only vote Ald to avoid a no-lynch.

I'd rather no-lynch than lynch Captain. He will NOT be getting my vote. Not today, not ever. Quite frankly, if a cop claimed guilty on Captain, I'd lynch the cop-claim rather than Captain.

You that opposed to an Ald lynch? Since that's how opposed I am to a Captain Lynch.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Mostly Not Ald Stuff

Town Reads:
Captain Corporal:His predecessors actions before replacing out read as a geninue attempt at scumhunting and leaving information for his partner, Captains disagreement with his predecessors reads is something that mafia generally would avoid doing, as is openely asking for players reads and thoughts on their slot.

Secret Project:The strength and aggression they showed about their reads earlier in the day reads as a geninue belief that they're correct. Their reaction to Jils claim and their actions following it is something I have massive trouble seeing them do as scum.

Wormy Krew: I'm not seeing the case against them. The slip is semantics and is being pushed to the point where it's becoming a joke. Their hydra disagreements read as legitimate and there are many alternate places where they would place their vote as scum in this position. Their play also shows no ressemblance to Sleepys scum game, I suggest reading through Newbie 1098 to notice the massive differences in his play. I do dislike the fact that they have quietened down recently and would like them to explain and move their vote.

^You know, stuff like this really shouldn't have fooled me before. It's stuff which looks like amazing content, brilliant, in fact. I definitely thought so at the time. But man. On a re-read, I realize just what a load of junk this actually was.

Alduskkel: I intensely dislike his lack of content in this game especially for someone as experienced as he is, though I'm unsure if I would consider the lack of content a scum-tell for him especially considering he openely stated he prefers to be scum, therefore would be more inclined to perform better as it.

^And stuff like this is why Soben's Ald's partner.

(There's also

Notably, he relies on meta to excuse the behaviors of WormyKrew, and to prosecute the cases for Elsa and Alex, but in MY case, he excuses the meta away instead. Can't have it both ways, mate.

^That.)

@Captain Corporal: top 3 scum reads please.

Once again, I'd like to point out to you how this is not scum interacting with scum.

Side-note, I find it hilarious just how many of these Soben displays.

I just realized something. Regfan/Soben has a townread on us, right? While we are indeed town, the reasoning is completely wrong. How can you use one game of meta on a HYDRA? And my first game, a Newbie game, at that? You've got to have some better logic than that.

Totally scum interaction with buddy.

This is mainly as a warmup for me. Anyway,

I never said I suspected anyone on the wagon. I just said it was BS. I've said it before, I'll say it again: wrong =/= scummy.

He had...no suspects...on a wagon that went to L-2...why? That kinda reminds me of a post in the "scumslip" thread buried somewhere in MD. Don't remember which it reminds me of off the top of my head, but needless to say, this is EXACTLY the attitude I'd expect from scum.

This continues when he later responds. Seriously, calling so many people on a single wagon, to be town? That means that 1:you're not leaving much room for scum off the wagon, and 2: means the wagon is far more likely to be on scum, which Ald's views did not reflect. 5/7 needed for a lynch-->Ald didn't suspect any of them-->Ald called all five of them essentially "not suspects"-->Ald said the wagon got that far without scum help-->Ald implies that therefore, the wagon is more likely to be on scum-->Ald doesn't follow through-->Ald is scum because of this, among many other reasons.

Makes sense to me.

The last part of Ald's 499 wall reads as blatant scum interaction.

*Must. Resist. Urge. To. Point. Out. Soben's. Scumminess. With. WormyKrew.*

I was promised an explanation of reads from Mastin. RAGE. Okay, not really, but that definitely warrants a virtual smack upside the head. Mastin it has been forever since you said you'd explain yourself, and I was willing to wait until the end of this weekend (like you wanted us to), but now it's just preposterous.

Next post. Explanation of reads. Or a damned good explanation on why you haven't posted them yet.

1: This is fluff. There is no content in this post. 2: This is parroting. These exact words had been spoken by multiple previous players. 3: Tone. This has that very distinct scum tone.

Turns out all I needed to get the old Mafia fire in me burning again was to reread this game and start making a wall.

This very well might've been a scumslip.

Though that's almost to be expected, since I think Mastin gets a lot of his wall-mode playstyle from me.

This is also slight hypocrisy with Ald's past self. If you want proof, look at my Main's Wiki, "Mastin". Paraphrased, a line in there says, "Ha, trying to pin the blame on the players of 688? No, Mastin, pretty sure you developed that by yourself."

Alduskkel’s #582: Your response to me was an overreaction or overcompensation, imo.

This is also a quite valid point against Ald.

Alduskkel is basically vote sitting on Captain Corporal at this stage as his initial reasons for voting are weak at this stage so if he is continuing to find that slot the scummiest/worthiest lynch he should update the reasons. Otherwise there is another vote that can move around.

As is this. Ald had a dead vote.

Ald hasn't offered legitimate content since last Thursday, and unlike Elsa, didn't actually declare V/LA. He has parked his vote on what started as the Gerhard Krause playslot and hasn't moved it once, which on D1 is a significant scumtell for me, because (1) it indicates both a lack of proactive scumhunting using your most powerful scumhunting weapon, (2) that he has placed it where he now knows the lynch likely won't occur, so he won't be on the wagon that will be subsequently scrutinized if the lynchee flips town, and (3, and perhaps most importantly), he voted the GK slot and then doesn't do much interacting with that slot as of late--I think town is much more apt to interact with the players they think are scum to try to get them to slip further; compartmentalizing your D1 interactions is very much scummy.

This is strengthened by the reality that Ald has completely abstained from the vig-vote discussion. I was V/LA and still managed to contribute to it in my very first post back.

This, completely valid, should not have been forgotten.

That's to 30.

Now things start to get fun.

[Substrike22]

Xvart replaces TWIE effective immediately. Give him a very, very, very warm welcome. Deadline will be 72 hours after his /confirm post. Additionally a votecount will happen tomorrow morning after I'm no longer dealing with food poisoning.

[mastin2]

72 hours?

I can finish an Ald case in that time. Easy.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Brief Warmup

(Took a break, so I need something to get me back into rhythm.)

@Soben
Sorry, Krew is a bit busy in real life and ear is... where the hell IS ear?!

Scum interactions.

I don't think I can make this any more clear - I've provided a list of things that make me believe TWIE is mafia that DOESN'T involve meta or his level of activity which are the reasons you don't want to lynch him. Now can you at least respond to those?

1: reads as slight deflection away from WormyKrew. 2: trying to distract me from my cases at the time. 3: Gut. ("...That's all you can think of?" Yeah, sometimes, believe it or not, certain words which I don't have any logical reason to be suspicious of...still feel suspicious. And those incidents are, quite simply put, Gut. There's more in here to suspect than the deflection and distraction, but I don't know what. Hence, I have to say that it's Gut.)

1. I don't disagree that they buddied you however I fail to see that as a strong scum-tell. They didn't exactly contradict themselves in their vote of Ironhead, the reasoning for their inital unvote of him had to do with him providing reasonable content which isn't a town-tell.
2. See, here's the problem, you're essentially saying: He's mafia because he's mafia. Do you find it impossible that he could legitimatly suspect Alex as town?
3. Show links to this please.
4. How does his interactions with Iron make him mafia? Again you're doing the: He's mafia because he's mafia logic.
5. This is actually a decent point: Wormy - Why do you want Elsa vigged?
6. You yourself have only focused on 4-5 players so I'm unsure how you see that as a particular scum-tell however I would agree that lately they haven't been providing that much content.

Blatant WormyKrew defense, through and through.

I believe that's enough of a warm-up.

@Alduskkel, when you come back: Why have you been absent, and what is your response to DY's case on you?

I found these to be decent.

4: Sharp, lucid responses. He pressed Secret Project to answer an old question.

Scum reviving a dead, pointless topic which quite frankly wasn't that important.

He accurately called BS on WormyKrew's assertion that AtE and scum-hunting were mutually exclusive.

1: bussing, 2: that statement was still scummy.

He probed you on your announcement that you were reaction-fishing.

There is no town motivation to question someone who talks about Reaction Fishing. Seriously, I had a game which had a lengthy 5-or-so-page discussion about the subject. All participants were town, chasing the Red Herring.

He questioned mastin2 on an incoherent summation.

1: nothing new. Others had done that before. 2: I'm an easy target. Ald of all people knows this. 3: Context in here is also key, in that he used it to back up his dead read.

He pointed out a hole in Secret Project's logic.

A: trying to discredit town, B: which in the process would weaken their WormyKrew suspicion.

7: Continues to probe mastin2 and Secret Project. Dismisses a very weak suggestion from mastin2 with decent logic.

Refer to previous points, about revivial, discrediting, and easy targets.

13: Continues to probe several players with questions -- including you. His interaction with Soben seems genuine to me.

1: the probing was almost entirely worthless. 2: Probing in this case is null at BEST. 3: In this case, however, it gives a scum-lean, in that Ald was leaving open his options in this case--leaving open a chance to jump onto whoever, for pretty much whatever he wanted. 4: His interaction with Soben is one of the largest giveaways of the scumteam being WormyKrew-Ald-Soben.

Sometimes, you really do get a better case out of picking apart someone's defense of a player than you do by quoting an offense. (I probably never woulda thought of well over half of those points if not for Iron's defense.)

If you read the top of Ald's wall, it REEKS of bussing WormyKrew. (...But not following through.)

In it, Ald also pushes both WormyKrew and Secret. (Despite it being pretty common sense that the two of them were pretty much mutually exclusive alignments.)

109: As noted in 152 by SP, bandwagony post from splitfarvle that doesn't add anything to the case.

This also reeks of bussing. That whole post? Casts suspicion on well over half the playerlist. I counted. There's at least eight suspicions in there. WormyKrew, Secret, TWIE, Gerhard (his stale vote), Monk, Alex, Jily, myself.

Maybe not all of them were meant as suspects--but even if they weren't meant as suspects, that therefore means that Ald was trying to discredit them, which is even worse. (I can easily explain why.)

That was not a town post. At all.

Scum interactions (BIG TIME), scum Motive behind casting so many suspicions, scum Tone (particularly towards me), scum overall play.

(Why didn't I nail him harder on this before?!?)

But let's move on. The beauty of it is, after Ald posts one scummy wall, he goes on to post another following it.

Quite frankly, I'm not in the mood to go into exactly why that post is so filled with scum.

Remind me to come back to it later. Say, "Mastin, please elaborate on why 785 was so bad."

(*Once. More. Resisting. Urge. To post. Soben-Scum.*)

For the record, Secret opposed the TWIE lynch.

This (and the fact that TWIE got to L-1) is all you need to know for TWIE-town. It was a horribad reason to jump on, pinning the blame on someone who hadn't even been walling that much, and rushes the day, urging people to lynch TWIE quickly. (Sound familiar? It should, because that's the exact same thing which people are doing with Captain.)

Null Reads: Aldusskel and WeirdAlex.

Perfect place to put your buddy, eh?

WormyKrew 7 (L-0)

Mastin2

,

jilynne1991

, Alduskkel, Ironhead, Darth Yoshi,

Secret Project

, Soben

Given the circumstances of the lynch, you really think this is even CLOSE to being all-town? Heck no. At least one scum bussing, and I'm wagering on it being two. Not me, obviously. Not Jily, of course. Not Ironhead, pretty much definitely. And of course, Secret's dead. Leaves {Ald, Yoshi, Soben}. Tell me, does ANYONE think all three of those names are town?

...No?

...Yeah, for good reason. 1-2 scum, in those three names. Captain was not among them.

So unless you think the WormyKrew lynch was mystically all-town, you should want to lynch inside the names there.


I know, 38 isn't a full 10, but, eh, close enough. (And to the end of the day.)

[mastin2]

@Ironhead: Scum wouldn't let jily's vig go through no matter what her target's alignment was if they had anything to say about it. If her target was scum, then obviously they will stop it. If her target is town, they will stop it so that the Town is forced to use a lynch instead of a night kill on the player that was going to be vigged.

Quite frankly, this seems like inside knowledge. Not so much the statement "jily would be blocked regardless of her alignment"--that's pretty null. The REASONS Ald gives, on the other hand, SCREAM of, "this is WHY we blocked her".

(Speaking of which, I'm getting the distinct impression that Ald's the Roleblocker. Soben's probably a Goon.)

There's also 940. I point out a few flaws in my 962. Ald says he's looking at Broken, Alex, and Soben. I correctly pointed out how that REEKS of bussing, and giving the "buddy and two townies" strategy. His weak suspects, for equally weak reasons. It displays a consistent scum Tone. (The exact same Tone, mind you, which I nailed WormyKrew for.) The post reeks of scum Motive. It also seems like it has inside knowledge--looking at this post, it looks like Ald already KNOWS that Jily used her shot, but got blocked. Jily had not posted that, yet. (Why didn't I catch onto that before?!? It's a HUGE scumslip, now that I think about it.)

This reeks of being scum interactions, too.

Active lurking.

While I am not on board for a jily policy lynch, I will lynch jily based on the fact that she is scummy. (See my wall.)

Policy lynching a player-->scum. Jily was, is, and shall always be obv-town in this game. Trying to justify her lynch-->scum move. Honestly. I never, EVER support Policy Lynches, for a dang-good reason. Policy Lynching is lynching someone based off of their general playstyle. This is not the same thing as scumhunting. It's no better (and in fact is far worse) than random lynching. Ald's support for her death makes him far more likely scum.

I'd much prefer it if you actually did some scumhunting beyond gut and some weak scumtells thrown in on occasion.

Blatant scum-coaching-town. Additionally, this does not read as someone who thinks Jily is scummy. This reads as someone who knows Jily is town, and wants to see more from her. Refer to the above, for why his support of her lynch therefore makes him scum.

I picked things that were especially wrong. And that's why it is the weakest part of your argument, because it is particularly wrong.

Ald admits to strawmanning me.

Yeah, the someone you think is scum right now. If I'm scum, then why did I post that? Are you saying you agree with someone you think is scum, then? Especially on a point about who's scum...

There is no way this line came from town. Using a point he made to try and make himself look far more town than he actually was for it.

Man, remember when you explained things Mastin? That was great. I remember those days. Good times.

I'd like to see more explaining and less unsubstantiated statements with excessive amounts of smilies.

1: Tone. This is the strongest scum tone in the post. 2: Blatantly false. That was not how I used to be; I've always sucked at explaining things. 3: He wants less of the excessive smileys, which he knows me for. 4: blatant hypocrisy.

Maybe DarthYoshi is trying to get you to vote for wierdalex because he wants wierdalex lynched because he believes him to be scum, which is the pro-town thing to do.

This is really dumb. I am pretty sure DarthYoshi is town.

1: Scum tone. 2: Trying to get Alex lynched. 3: Defending Yoshi. 4: Degrading my play. 5: Calling Yoshi Town. When it's pretty much common sense (for the multiple reasons I've outlined several times) that one of them has to be scum.

He also chooses to waste the town's greatest power. A pro-town player has only two tools for catching scum: their voice, and their vote. The latter is quite frankly more important to me than the former. (I believe that someone with a posting restriction of only being able to post votes can still do better scumhunting than pretty much everyone else in the thread. It's why that's my Dream-Post-Restriction--to have absolutely nothing but my Vote as a weapon against the scum. To prove this belief true.) I wrote two guides on why Pro-Town Players shouldn't waste their votes. ("Mastin's Guide To Playing Well" and "Mastin's Guide to VCA" both cover the subject of why there's pretty much no pro-town motivation to not vote.)

989 pretty much sums up my thoughts on Ald at the time--he posted pretty much nothing which'd have even possibly convinced me to move my vote.

@Ald: If you're not going to vote and not going to give us a suspect list in lieu of a vote, then you are not looking a whole lot more townish than you were D1.

Yoshi, you've finally got me thinking you're town. You've managed to convince me of that, and I see it all the time in your posts. Thanks for that.

Now in exchange, I'd like to snap you back into your senses, and wake you up. Get you back onto the right track, the track which you set me on, the path which I currently follow, but which you started--an Ald lynch, with solid reasons like this.


Keeping with the old trend (this is through 40), I'm posting this now and continuing on from there.

(And this is where things get...VERY interesting......)

[mastin2]

Scum attitude. Dismissing me AND Yoshi, saying he'll not be paying attention to us until lylo, and scumslipping by revealing he knows we're both town.

I could quote a lot from Twisted's entry post, about CC-->town and Ald-->scum. But highlights?

page 11
oh look it's CC. well he's town anyways.
Ald just defends himself. No town fruit

^Valid. Both in that CC is town, and Ald's defending himself is rather condemning.

Yoshi

and Ald deserve suspect status though.

These are ALL valid points against Ald, too. Read it all; it's an excellent post from Twisted.

1049 is an instance of Captain as town, for the record. Going against the general beliefs of the thread at the time (that being, "Twisted is obv-town"), he votes for Twisted. It's in this case quite the strong town indicator, especially since Twisted was not suspicious of Captain at the time. (And in fact was a bit of the opposite--in other words, Captain was attacking one of his defenders, another SERIOUS town-tell.)

Side-note:

TheWayItEnds 4 (L-2) Soben, Wiredalexv, Darth Yoshi, Twistedspoon,

This was NOT all-town at this point. Not by a long-shot. It's not Yoshi, it's not Twisted, it's not Alex, then who could it be? Oh. Right. Soben, of course.

This is more reasoning why Captain is town. Scum tend not to believe one of their primary attackers is town.

@Soben:

The case on Ald revolves around a few things--

-The "null" nature of his posts, something you yourself admit.

-Low activity level, something Ald himself admits, but does so in such a way, and with such emphasis, that much of his activity has been to justify his lack of quality activity, rather than actual scumhunting.

Plus, there are a couple D1 scumtells--

-Ald parking his vote on what was the Gerhard slot, a slot that never came under serious scrutiny, which to me looked like parking a vote somewhere to avoid scrutiny of it; I noted this as a scumtell when I first voted Ald, and I noted it as a scumtell today with Elsa's vote on CC.

-The WK association--On D1, Ald was attempting to discredit the WK wagon by asking everyone on it (save me) to justify why they were on it, and pronouncing himself unsatisfied with that wagon--BUT, he still joined that wagon, which suggests a buddy bussing to avoid suspicion after the scumflip.

That's the case on Ald in a nutshell. Independently, he is rather scummy. In association with WK, he is in fact very scummy.

^All of this, valid.

Alduskkel 4 (L-1) Mastin2, Twistedspoon, Darth Yoshi, Wiredalexv, Captain

Oh, hey, look at how this wagon formed naturally and over a period of time. And observe how it'll soon be falling apart, too!

And now, we come to page 48.

Here's where things...become...

......

Well, become what they pretty much are today. Stopping here, since, well...it's kinda the sort of thing which is worthy of its own post.

[mastin2]

And thinking about turning in for the whole night, actually. 3 AM, right now. I'm not sure I could handle it at the moment. (Remind me about 785 as well. 785, his post on page 48, his recent post...pretty much some of his strongest scum posts.)

[Twistedspoon]

Xvart replaces TWIE effective immediately. Give him a very, very, very warm welcome. Deadline will be 72 hours after his /confirm post. Additionally a votecount will happen tomorrow morning after I'm no longer dealing with food poisoning.

what about the Jily replacement?

oh, and welcome xvart

[Twistedspoon]

1049 is an instance of Captain as town, for the record. Going against the general beliefs of the thread at the time (that being, "Twisted is obv-town"), he votes for Twisted. It's in this case quite the strong town indicator, especially since Twisted was not suspicious of Captain at the time. (And in fact was a bit of the opposite--in other words, Captain was attacking one of his defenders, another SERIOUS town-tell.)

I didn't notice it at the time, but Mastin is spot-on with this point here too

[Ironhead]

Ironhead: Tell me why you think my assumptions are wrong.

I didn't say that they were absolutely wrong. But they are

assumptions

, not facts, and they must always be questioned. They will always be the weakest link in your argument because there is nothing to guarantee that they are true. So if I accept the assumptions you make, I would agree with your reasoning; but as soon as I step back and re-examine your argument without accepting your assumptions, your reasoning looks illogical.

@Xvart: Welcome! I would like to lynch you. Is there anything you can say to dissuade me of this?

[xvart]

Hello everyone. I'm looking forward to replacing in. Honestly, though, had I realized there were no flips yet I probably wouldn't have...

Just to give everyone a heads up I'm going to try and get the whole thread read today and start putting together my post hopefully some tonight and the rest the tomorrow.

Anyways, I guess this in my official /confirm post so let the countdown begin. Happy hunting.

[wierdalexv]

Hi Xvart! I hope you have a lot of fun reading a 54 page game >_> [FTR, I replaced into a 60 page game and got lynched within 2 weeks.]
Also, what the heck are you talking about with the no-flips thing? We've had a Goon lynched and a VT killed.

Mastin, that's actually a pretty dang good case. It at least makes me reconsider my read on Soben, I may be doing an ISO today if I feel like it.

[Twistedspoon]

there are flips, the mod just hasn't updated the first post :/

[xvart]

Also, I meant to

UNVOTE:

Also, what the heck are you talking about with the no-flips thing? We've had a Goon lynched and a VT killed.

Oops. I just scanned through the first post and didn't see the parenthetical death notations on the side of the player list.

For anyone keeping track, I'm now on page 4.

[Elsa von Spielburg]

Hello, and good luck catching up to this monstrosity of a game. Walls. Walls everywhere.

[wierdalexv]

Oh, and I forgot about TheWayItEnds entirely with his absence.

Anyways, I will be looking at Soben's ISO pretty soon. I will basically be quoting everything and saying what I think of it.

[wierdalexv]

EBWOP: and Spitfarvle and Scumhunter too, since they were in Soben's slot.

[wierdalexv]

/confirm

What time zone are you in?

How much experience do you have playing mafia (either on or off-site)?

About how active are you usually in a game?

RVS or RQS? Why?

Mountain, UTC-6 I think.
Two games before I came here, four completed here.
It depends, I try to post every day but sometimes life interferes.
I don't have a preference, I've seen both generate discussion.

There's nothing to say here, just RQS answers.

I'll confirm that Ironhead's play has so far been consistent with how he played in the game we were in. He changes the tone of his posts and pushes logic heavily so this is a nulltell for me.

So, I'm thinking Iron/jil team? I personally want to see Iron go first.

First, why are you hunting in terms of scumpairs/teams before there have been any flips yet? This looks like scum trying to appear helpful. Second, why does Iron need to go first if you're putting all this attention on Jily instead?

I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies so early in the game.

FoS: WormyKrew.

This is a good point. It also seems like hydra is an easy defense against inconsistencies, so I'll need more of an explanation than that.

VOTE: WormyKrew

This is what I said was gut earlier, I don't like this sheep-vote and, now that we have a WormyKrew scumflip, this looks a lot like an early bus.

Sometimes jilynne shows a clear grasp of the game, and other times seems oblivious. I don't know what to make of that.

My opinion on you claiming: If you're town, you generally shouldn't claim unless you absolutely have to. Even if you're vanilla town, it narrows down the potential nightkill targets for scum who are most likely looking for town power roles. There are probably exceptions to this depending on the game and role, so ultimately it's up to your best judgement.

I don't see anything scummy here, other than active lurking.

So, I'm thinking Iron/jil team? I personally want to see Iron go first.

First, why are you hunting in terms of scumpairs/teams before there have been any flips yet? This looks like scum trying to appear helpful. Second, why does Iron need to go first if you're putting all this attention on Jily instead?

I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies so early in the game.

FoS: WormyKrew.

This is a good point. It also seems like hydra is an easy defense against inconsistencies, so I'll need more of an explanation than that.

VOTE: WormyKrew

This rubs me the wrong way. I don't know why, call it gut if you want, but I don't like this sheep.

What don't you like about it? Do you disagree with the point?

Nothing here, really.
Absolutely no scumhunting at all, just active lurking.

May do Scumhunter in a little while.

[wierdalexv]

Sorry, I'll have to finish the ISO later.

[xvart]

Up to page 7. Just for a reference the questions I ask throughout my catch up phase are not the only things I will be commenting on, but rather isolated things that immediately stuck out.

Darth Yoshi

- why do you care so much about votes in pre game? Do they not exhibit identical intent behind them even if they don't count? It is such an odd thing to bring up on a handful of occasions.

Alduskkel

- I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this (at least up until page 7): in your first post of the game you open with a bunch of rule clarification questions to the moderator and then talk about how you are one of the more experienced players in the game. With your experience level wouldn't most of these questions be self evident? And, do you have a habit of nit picking the ruleset in your other games?

[wierdalexv]

Uhh. Really don't want to work on the ISO anymore, but I guess I will.
Not guaranteeing that I'll get it done tonight, but I'll be working on it.

[xvart]

This is going a little slower than I thought. Probably won't have anything substantial up tonight but I'm still chugging along.

Mastin

- did you give a reason for your playstyle change in this game? Is it something you are doing universally?

Alex - You seem to have invested more time with this helpful post then actually furthering your own reads. Is this true?

Just a quick question - what does everyone think of me?
Actually two quick questions. Do you think asking for self reads is scummy?
Wait, three quick questions. It'd be nice if some people took note of my posts, such as the one in which I state we should review the NK. Anyone care to answer some of those questions I asked back then?

What the hell, I don't even... Why were you even talking about reviewing a NK prior to a D1 lynch? And what purpose is asking what people think of you?

And in response:

1. Meh. Not really a big fan so far.
2. This question earned you town cred.
3. What are you talking about?

Answer two really hits my scumdar hard. First, you didn't even answer the question "is asking for self reads scummy" and instead brush it under with "asking the question earns you town cred". How does that question earn town cred? Do you think asking for player's opinions of their play is scummy (if he hadn't asked "is this scummy to ask?")?

At this point I think it is safe to say that Secret Project is scum.

[xvart]

Just read the top of page 16 to see CCs retraction of question 3... Did you universally post asking what people thought of you in all your games? I don't understand the disconnect between questions 1 and 2 going in this game and question 3 going in another game unless there was no real purpose behind the questions to begin with.